Planet Hollywood Towers - the #1 timeshare in the US?

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[PeterS]

Ok, I see it's on the Strip and is in a casino complex. They could also use the phrase "Own a piece of the Strip".

However, they don't have their own casino within the timeshare like ph will have. That's the reason I started this thread. To me this is what makes ph unique in the timeshare world and my reasoning for its eventual rise to #1. It will become #1 in Vegas and thus the US. It's a brand new resort and carries the Planet Hollywood logo. It's right across the street from the City Center which will become the focal point of the Strip if you believe a number of magazine articles.

Are there any current prices for the HGVC at Flamingo?

There is a sale from 3/2007 for a 2 bdrm for $13,500 in the TUG database. Other sales listed from 1999-2003 are $2500 - $7000 depending on season and 1 or 2 bdrm.

As far as whether the casino being in the same tower or the tower on the other side of the courtyard/pool area is any difference in value.... I would rather not have a casino operating inside the building I had to sleep in....

Just like THEHotel at Mandalay Bay, their upscale hotel tower that offers you the chance to be close to the action but able to get away and relax from the casino.

As far as the PH name.... how many times did they go bankrupt by over franchising?

http://money.cnn.com/2001/10/19/companies/planet/

Pete

 

[timeos2]

It Wastegate - thats enough to kill the deal

I've tried to stay out of this but it just isn't possible.

The name Wastegate is involved, they have been working to get a LV timeshare for almost a decade and there is no one more of a megalomaniac, with the possible exception of the Donald, than King David. There is NO WAY he doesn't hang on to management at "his" new resort. Think of the potential for pictures with celebrities! Plus add in the totally discredited name of Planet Hollywood and the long history of failure at the Aladdin and this doesn't look like a winner.

So, take this to the bank, despite all of Perry's in depth analysis and planning PH Wastegate will be no different than every other. Bad management, poor owner relations, no owner input, "our way or the highway" and high pressure sales guaranteed to create owners desperate to sell - not that long after they overpay big time - and prices will tank. I don't wish any bad luck on Perry but this is a non-starter from the get go. There is no way this place will even hold the original value forget actually increase over time. It is a well proven fact that timeshares simply don't benefit from the underlying increase in real estate value as a home, business or a wholly owned condo may. If they did there would have been a whole lot of money made by plenty of owners during the real estate run up of the past few years. Only the small trailer park at Briney Breezes, FL actually did it - and they weren't a timeshare. And even that sale isn't due to be finalized until 2009 - who knows if it will actually go through.

Perry, sorry, but this is not an exception to the TUG rules. It's even a bigger stretch than Steamboats' tortured DVC "best buy" ranking that depends on the ROFR that Disney will abandon before much longer for the older resorts. While I hope your numbers work out for you personally it would be foolhardy to recommend it for the majority of timeshare buyers. It is touting an investment mentality and that alone is on of the three biggest no-no's in all timeshare. Buy to use never assume you can make money or even get a decent return on investment - if you do thats great but it's extremely unlikely.

#1 timeshare? Sorry, no sale.

 

[cluemeister]

Perry,

Marriott keeps resale prices up by consistently exercising ROFR in a predictable price range. What assurances do you have that Westgate will exercise ROFR on this property?

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[gmarine]

By looking at a bunch of news releases and articles I am starting to think the PH Towers by Westgate are not going to be managed by Starwood. Here is a link from the Westgate website. No mention at all of Starwood.

Here is one quote from an article.

The hotel also offers 75,000 square feet of flexible pre-function and meeting facilities with 18 break-out rooms, two executive boardrooms, a separate conference floor allowing for easy meeting access and a 114,000 square-foot casino. Starwood, through its Sheraton brand, will manage the hotel operations only and will not have responsibility for casino operations.

If Starwood was going to manage the PH Towers it seems to me that it should be easy to find that in an article.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

So, take this to the bank, despite all of Perry's in depth analysis and planning PH Wastegate will be no different than every other. Bad management, poor owner relations, no owner input, "our way or the highway" and high pressure sales guaranteed to create owners desperate to sell - not that long after they overpay big time - and prices will tank.

Only the small trailer park at Briney Breezes, FL actually did it - and they weren't a timeshare. And even that sale isn't due to be finalized until 2009 - who knows if it will actually go through.

Perry, sorry, but this is not an exception to the TUG rules. It's even a bigger stretch than Steamboats' tortured DVC "best buy" ranking that depends on the ROFR that Disney will abandon before much longer for the older resorts.

Dude...your opinions are NOT facts.

#1. I own Westgate Park City and it is AWESOME. Just search my many threads on this location and you will see I am a very happy camper. I have never visited any other Wesgate property and I could care less if they all are crap. I believe the Las Vegas will beat out the Park City location as the #1 Westgate. Resale prices at Westgate PC are very STRONG and LV should be no different.

#2. I live in the same neighborhood as Jean Francois Roy, of Ocean Land Investments who masterminded the Briny Breezes purchase. I am also very good friends with his VP. These people are killer smart when it comes to real estate investing and they are planning on building a 900 room timeshare there also. I have no idea who they will partner with, but they are Canadian (read between the lines here).

#3. I have bought over $100,000 of DVC points and have profited over $6,000 on two sales of my VWL original contracts. Additionally, I have rented many points (when I can't use them all) and make a very nice 10% ROI on my original purchases (much better than a bank CD or even bonds). I have SHARED many of my tips for PROFITING from buying DVC. If this is "torture" to you, then you are a very small thinker. Notice that I SOLD my VWL and bought all SSR units...do you think that was an accident. I could keep my DVC secrets to myself, but in the spirit of TUG sharring, I post my gameplan. I also could not help notice that you are not a DVC owner...what are you waiting for?

Smart TUGers have benefited from me, PerryM, and many others. The fact that you spell Westgate "Wastegate" under your avitar should indicate your bias against them.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I have not read PerryM analysis yet, so I will take a stab at his logic.

He probably paid less than $100,000 for a 4 bedroom penthouse week 52 timeshare because he is a good negotiator. The MF is about $1,000.

Lost opportunity (@ 5%) + MF = $6,000 per year / 7 nights = $857 per night.

If he uses this for himself and his 13 other friends, then his cost per person per day is only $61 per person per day. This is actually a very cheap price for this unit.

I would use a more conservative 8 people as it is ONLY four rooms (hee-hee) and the cost per person per night is $107, which is still very good.

If he can rent the unit (in toto or break it up) for $10k per week, then he is making $4,000 per year or about 4% ROI.

However, if he is able to sell in 3-5 years for $150,000....then this is a HOMERUN and will probably be one of the LARGEST (pure cash) profits in the history of timesharing.

Has anyone here ever heard of anyone selling a timeshare for $50,000 MORE than they paid? He would be admitted to the Timeshare hall of fame if he can pull that off.

I put the odds of him pulling this off are in the 60-75% range.

 

[Shoeshine]

He probably paid less than $100,000 for a 4 bedroom penthouse week 52 timeshare because he is a good negotiator. The MF is about $1,000.

..........

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[Shoeshine]

Current Planet Hollywood Towers prices:
Floating studio $27,900 and Week 52 $35,900
Floating 1BR $35,900 and Week 52 $45,900
Floating 2BR $48,900 and Week 52 $68,900
Floating 4BR $99,900 and Week 52 $139,900
(P.S. there are only 64 of these, well 63 now)

I have no idea how fast these units will go up in price.

Whether there is any Founder’s Inventory available and if they will offer it to you ...
The founders price they quoted me was by accident.

..........

 

[PerryM]

Is that a Bobble Head I see?

I deleted this post

 

[BocaBum99]

Perry,

It is very impressive how you can get so much attention on such horrendous investment ideas. I have often thought about why you do what you do. I have concluded that you like to push back the boundaries of real estate related industries to prove that you can turn modest profits on these wildly crazy concepts. You do these experiments. You get to write about them. You get a lot of oohs and ahhs. I think you get a kick out of it. It motivates you to look for more ideas like you have. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, mind you, these are terrible investment ideas. You risk a tremendous amount of capital to achieve what amounts to pass book returns. Not impressive from an absolute level. But, totally impressive when you compare those returns to the expected loss of 50% or more an average person would achieve.

The net result is that these posts have great entertainment value, but provide very poor financial advice.

 

[dougp26364]

Having sat back down and read through all of this, I believe I can honestly say that for Perry this purchase makes prefect sense. These are my reasons.

1. He plans on using it for a number of years. It's bound to be a great unit with the best location possible at the moment for a timeshare on the strip. Anything that sits abover the height of PH with a panoramic view of the strip PLUS a balcony to sit out privately on at night is a killer location. I don't care if it's Westgate, Sunterra, Marriott, Hilton, Bluegreen or whomever. It's still a killer unit and location.

2. Reading between the lines I'm certain that he's purchased well below the listed pricing. Most of us know that quality resorts in quality location can often be purchased at preconstruction pricing, held and used for a number of years and then resold for a profit. But, there has to be a demand for that unit and that location. Time will only tell if this particular unit on this particular date in this particular location has the magic to turn a profit. Vegas would not be my choice of cities for this combination but, Perry's comfortable with it and since he's bought into it, that's all that really matters.

3. All units are not equal. Most of us buy a standard unit. Perry is not talking standard unit. He's talking best unit in the house style unit. I feel similar about Marriott. If it were just a standard 2 bedroom unit or 1 bedroom unit, I would never own there. I was, on the other hand, very comfortable buying the 3 bedroom end cap suite with the full one bedroom LO. For us we like the location of those units. The fact as owners we assume we'll be given high floors. The angles of those units allow to see between buildings (doesn't matter what Metro Flag does, the view is between PH and whatever's on that corner or over PT's). That Marriott now has a simplified rental plan if I choose to rent. Finally that we can exchange the one bedroom suite for similar suites in the Marriott system (first exchange is into Hilton Head). For us, it works. If it's value goes up then great but, it's not a monetary investment for us. It's simply and asset.

But there are unkowns. Will PH be successful with casino ownwership? They haven't done all that well with their restaurants but, I haven't followed them lately. Will Westgate manage the timeshares into the ground and make owners unhappy? Perry feels Starwood will manage the timeshares. What I've read is that the timeshares are Westgate's baby and renting hotel rooms is Starwoods territory. Starwood won't be managing the timeshares. I could be wrong but that is the way I've read it and I do follow Vegas pretty closely. The information I'm finding on the internet at this point is pretty convoluted and vague about this.

Of course the biggest unkown is, will PH Towers hold it's price? Westgate has ROFR in it's contracts and, if they can make money on it will exercise ROFR. That alone will keep pricing up. ROFR is one of the differences between resale pricning at HGVC's being in the $10,000 range for platinum 2 bedroom weeks and Polo Towers weeks going for $1,000. Quality, of course is another major factor.

I'm becoming more comfortable with Perry's anaylsis but I still fear he's over valued Vegas timeshare's. At any rate, I'm not personally comfortable with Westgate's management or name being on this project in any way shape or form. They have a history on these forums for changing the rules in mid stream to help themselves to a little more profit. For me, the distrust of the Westgate name puts me in Marriott's timeshare. To each his own. I say enjoy that timeshare Perry.

 

[PerryM]

Worthy goals...

I deleted this post

 

[BocaBum99]

Perry would be better off taking the $80k he is sinking into this timeshare and buying and flipping modest priced vanilla timeshares. He could easily achieve a 50% annual return on that $80k. After a year, he would net $40k before taxes. Let's say his tax rate is 40%. That would leave $24k. He could rent the week he wants for $10k and have $14k leftover to gamble with.

He won't do that because it's not as exciting as creating a post about owning the highest price timeshare in the industry.

 

[BocaBum99]

BB,

If you want investment return just buy one stock DIA (Diamonds – the DOW). Since 1933 the DOW averages 13.3% per year compounding year after year.

However, try to enjoy that 13.3% in Cabo or Maui or Vegas – it can’t be done. You need to shift assets from the DOW to something that generates vacations and hopefully something close to that 13.3%. That’s a worthy goal.

I think that idea is better than buying the Planet Hollywood Towers. Put your $80k there and then rent the unit for the week you want it with your proceeds with money to spare.

Now, if you started this thread to say that you just bought a great luxury product and you didn't care what it cost, then I would say "spend your money anyway you want." Once you start down the path of viewing it as an investment, that's where I need to compare it to the risk adjusted alternatives.

As I said, if you are just playing a game to see what you can do, I see value in that. It would make for a highly entertaining book. And, you could deduct all of the expenses for the exotic products you bought as a business expense. That would be fun as well. And, the book would be a best seller given how gifted you are at writing.

 

[wauhob3]

Why would anyone pay rental fees like that there? I paid something like $75 a night to stay there in one of Aladdin/PH very large hotel rooms and then on top if that they gave me a $25 gift certificate to use in their mall daily plus some other things this past Christmas week. So why would anyone pay thousands to rent just to have a mini kitchens when they money could be spent on restaurants etc.. Also LV has a glut of hotel rooms so only the peak weeks would even be rentable I would think but not at the figures quoted.

 

[PeterS]

Perry,

I do hope you the best in the PH investment.

I hope you got a really good deal on the price also.

I wish you had known about the HGVC@F before hand to get a better/complete perspective that while PH has some unique points it isn't as unique as the salesmen say. You may have made the same decision or not, but it would have been with complete info on what is available in Vegas.

But all of this has been covered here and links to everything are posted so everyone interested can do their own due diligence.

Again good luck your purchase.

Most importantly... Enjoy!

Pete

 

[PerryM]

Shutting thread down...

I deleted this post

 

[travelguy]

HGVC Flamingo Pricing

Are there any current prices for the HGVC at Flamingo?

See my previous post. We stay at the HGVC Flamingo in Vegas for five days EVERY New Years with our HGVC points, even if it spans two weeks . No exchanging required! Total purchase cost was $3,686.40 for these five days.

We choose HGVC Flamingo on New Years for it's central strip location since we have to walk everywhere (no one can drive in Vegas on New Years Eve). We only have a 1bd for the two of us, but we hardly ever are in the room since its New Years! :whoopie:

However, our New Years pattern may change if we decide to use the High Country Club New York Times Square property next year (Steamboat Bill beat me to the reservation this year).

 

[timeos2]

Of course they dislike TUG wisdom. Truth can hurt.

I did meet the VP of Westgate sales last Saturday and mentioned that I would run my analysis of why we were buying. He asked which chat room and I said TUG. He rolled his eyes and said “By resale and not from the developer”. So Westgate is aware of TUG and probably has written it off – I can see why.

And the advantage to buying retail instead of resale, for those resorts - Westgate being a prime example - where that is not only possible but almost automatically represents an immediate reduction in overall cost of 50% or more, is? The future fees are the same for both buyers. The resort is the same for both buyers. The trade power, if used, is the same for both buyers. Any sale price when its time to sell is the same for both buyers. So what did that 50% or more premium get the retail buyer?

 

[gmarine]

Perry

It occurred to me that a few years back you were promoting the best timeshare investment as getting in on the ground floor of that sailing ship timeshare. You were one of the first buyers or something like that.

And if I remember correctly it didnt go so well ? What was the story with that?

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Take The Sizzle. I'll Take The Steak.

So what did that 50% or more premium get the retail buyer?

Those discerning full-freight customers paying developers those big bux are rewarded with Super-Platinum Top-Gun Extra-Priority Premium-Plus Ruby-Tipped Special-Magic Upper-Crust Exclusive Executive Club Membership Status -- plus, a 100% totally brand-new timeshare unit.

By contrast, as a resale buyer I'm out in the cold with nothing to show for my hard-earned bux but my el cheapo, plain vanilla, simple, everyday, use-or-trade-or-rent-out "used" non-status luxury timeshare.

Plus, after the tour, the big-bux full-freight buyer gets chauffeured back to the hotel in a stretch limo. We peons who just went on the tour, collected freebies, & said No Thanks get crowded back onto the shuttle for the return trip.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[gmarine]

I have not read PerryM analysis yet, so I will take a stab at his logic.

He probably paid less than $100,000 for a 4 bedroom penthouse week 52 timeshare because he is a good negotiator. The MF is about $1,000.

Lost opportunity (@ 5%) + MF = $6,000 per year / 7 nights = $857 per night.

If he uses this for himself and his 13 other friends, then his cost per person per day is only $61 per person per day. This is actually a very cheap price for this unit.

I would use a more conservative 8 people as it is ONLY four rooms (hee-hee) and the cost per person per night is $107, which is still very good.

If he can rent the unit (in toto or break it up) for $10k per week, then he is making $4,000 per year or about 4% ROI.

However, if he is able to sell in 3-5 years for $150,000....then this is a HOMERUN and will probably be one of the LARGEST (pure cash) profits in the history of timesharing.

Has anyone here ever heard of anyone selling a timeshare for $50,000 MORE than they paid? He would be admitted to the Timeshare hall of fame if he can pull that off.

I put the odds of him pulling this off are in the 60-75% range.

First your assuming that he paid 40K less than retail. And to assume he can sell resale for 150K means retail prices would have to be in the 275K-300K range. Thats crazy.