Planet Hollywood Towers - the #1 timeshare in the US?

[GaryDouglas]

There's a respectful way to say something and a not so respectful way. Although I was hoping people would take a higher road on this, I'm old enough to not expect it.

 

[timeos2]

Those prices are pre-construction available to anyone, according to the Westgate sales person I spoke to.

Sometimes even experienced people can be drawn into a well crafted presentation with half truths. People want to believe they are getting a special deal or an insiders break and hear things the way they want. Often the hard facts alone can't persuade them while they are in that mode but later on the cold truth is all too clear. We have a few signs that it may be happening here with the management question, apparently a big key, the pricing, the float vs fixed, ROFR and other items that help form the basis for perceived success or future value all seemingly sales weasel "fact" based. Not even getting into the very subjective issues of location or proximity to a casino as holding tremendous appeal. I know I wouldn't want to be risking $80,000 more or less (I don't know if I'll spend that much in total of all costs for all 7 of my timeshares in 15 years) on this plan without answers in writing (which could still change later) on every key factor. I hope Perry comes out whole and gets great enjoyment from his purchase but I still can't say it sounds good to me.

 

[travelguy]

FWIW

There's a respectful way to say something and a not so respectful way. Although I was hoping people would take a higher road on this, I'm old enough to not expect it.

Not to hijack the thread ... but .... I (respectfully) disagree with you on the tone of the thread.

1. Perry has started a GREAT thread. Educational and entertaining.
2. Perry has put it all out there and made himself vulnerable by doing it in the name of letting fellow Tuggers in on what he believes is a great deal.
3. Other posters disagree with Perry's post and decision to buy PH, sometimes intensely, but they have their own valid reasons.
4. I don't believe that anyone has disrespected Perry himself.
5. The animosity that I see on this thread is about Westgate, timeshare developers and timeshare salespeople. (OK to do this IMHO).
6. Perry has been put in a position to defend his decision by a large group of Tuggers who have not gotten his total analysis of his decision to buy PH.
7. Perry may be a little hot about the above (IMHO, he has a right to be), but has not disrespected any of the posters.

I've made some fun with both Perry and Bill (who Perry has apparently brought to the Dark Side ) about this thread but certainly respect his decision and right to share his analysis with us.

Now back to your normally scheduled thread ....

 

[Spence]

I think this has been a great thread and I wish Perry all the best. Would I jump on this bandwagon, no way. Do I care whether there's a casino in house or just down the street, no, adds no value to me.

This is a much better thread than whether I put both my socks on before I think about my shoes. This is TUG - Timeshare Users Group.

Thanks Perry. I'm sure I'd take heat if I put out there what I thought and what I did in buying loads of Sunterra property/points.

 

[spookykennedy]

I have really enjoyed this thread and I admire Perry's attitude in response to some of the not so nice posts....

But, the whole time I was reading something my very financially savvy father always said to me kept coming up in my mind, "If someone can get more money for it, they will. Whatever you pay for something is what it is worth."

I always think about this for my purchases, large and small. While that doesn't mean the investment at PH won't pan out, it is hard for me to believe that Westgate would "give away" anything if it is of such tremendous value, and I am a skeptic about what the pricing will be for resale. Couple this with the fact that it is Westgate, and also Planet Hollywood, and I am a REAL skeptic about its long term success, but I've been wrong many before, lol!

 

[PeterS]

I went back and read the whole thread and saw a very spirited discussion but I didn't see anything that was disrespectful. (Did I miss something?)

I still don't agree with the basic premise that this resort is so unique and Perry even admitted he was unaware of the HGVC at Flamingo that has a number of the unique items that PH stated was totally unique to them.

We posted links to support both sides and moved on.

I have even seen a number of people who also disagree, including myself, wish Perry the best with his purchase.

If anything I posted was construed as disrespectful, I can assure you it wasn't meant to be that way, but I did try to backup my facts with links to confirm them.

All in all, I think it has been a good post with respect from both sides.

Pete

 

[dougp26364]

..............I still don't agree with the basic premise that this resort is so unique and Perry even admitted he was unaware of the HGVC at Flamingo that has a number of the unique items that PH stated was totally unique to them............


Pete

Actually, the Westgate property does have features that make it unique that are not found in HGVC Flamingo. PH Towers will have it's own shopping center, it's own restaurants, a very large pool complex of it's own and possibly a casino ( I've seen internet advertising that says casino and others that don't mention casino). It will also be "intergrated" into the PH hotel in such a way that rooms can be rented in the towers (through Starwood) just like they can in the main hotel. At least that's how I understand the press releases I've found. It will be further intergrated by the fact one will not have to walk outside to get to the main hotel/casino. IOW, it is part of the Planet Hollywood hotel.

HGVC Flamingo, on the other hand is a stand alone building with a smaller private pool but access to the Flamingo hotels pool complex. The Flamingo's pools get very crowded in the summer. You also, as I understand it, have to exit the HGVC and walk through the Flamingo's garden/pool area to get to the Flamingo. It's not fully intergrated and not part of the Flamingo hotel. HGVC Flamingo does not have it's own shopping center, restaurants or casino. So there are some differences.

Now, exactly how long PH Towers remains unique is another story. The Tropicana with it's major overhaul has announced plans for intergrated full ownership condo's and timeshares with it's 10,000 room overhaul/new build. One thing I've noticed is that with each new timeshare build they manage to surpass that last "big" thing. How much the Trop. will charge for their units could have a big impact, plus or negative, on resale prices at the Westgate. Location and views offered by the Tropicana will also affect resale prices at the Westgate.

There's also the issue of what Metro Flag does with it's land at the corner of Harmon and LV Blv. Right now they're just sitting on it. My bet is they're waiting for the righ moment to flip that lot and sell out. What ends up being built on that lot could affect PH Towers. It's doubtful but, with all things Vegas anything is possible.

For every reason I could find to pull the trigger on the deal Perry recieved I can find another two not to do it. While it works for Perry it would not work for us.

 

[PigsDad]

What is the big (perceived) draw of having a timeshare "integrated" with a casino? The last thing I want is to be forced to walk through a smoky casino just to get to my room. I have to do that when I stay in a Vegas hotel room -- staying in a TS should be an upgrade.

And having the TS units integrated w/ the hotel units, so that they can be rented like hotel rooms? Great -- then owners will have to deal with the group of drunks next door at their friend's bachelor party for a night. That's a "feature" I can live without, thank you very much.

So far, most of the "unique features" of the PH timeshares are downgrades, at least for me. To each their own, I guess!

Kurt

 

[PeterS]

Actually, the Westgate property does have features that make it unique that are not found in HGVC Flamingo. PH Towers will have it's own shopping center, it's own restaurants, a very large pool complex of it's own and possibly a casino ( I've seen internet advertising that says casino and others that don't mention casino). It will also be "intergrated" into the PH hotel in such a way that rooms can be rented in the towers (through Starwood) just like they can in the main hotel. At least that's how I understand the press releases I've found. It will be further intergrated by the fact one will not have to walk outside to get to the main hotel/casino. IOW, it is part of the Planet Hollywood hotel.

HGVC Flamingo, on the other hand is a stand alone building with a smaller private pool but access to the Flamingo hotels pool complex. The Flamingo's pools get very crowded in the summer. You also, as I understand it, have to exit the HGVC and walk through the Flamingo's garden/pool area to get to the Flamingo. It's not fully intergrated and not part of the Flamingo hotel. HGVC Flamingo does not have it's own shopping center, restaurants or casino. So there are some differences.

Now, exactly how long PH Towers remains unique is another story. The Tropicana with it's major overhaul has announced plans for intergrated full ownership condo's and timeshares with it's 10,000 room overhaul/new build. One thing I've noticed is that with each new timeshare build they manage to surpass that last "big" thing. How much the Trop. will charge for their units could have a big impact, plus or negative, on resale prices at the Westgate. Location and views offered by the Tropicana will also affect resale prices at the Westgate.

There's also the issue of what Metro Flag does with it's land at the corner of Harmon and LV Blv. Right now they're just sitting on it. My bet is they're waiting for the righ moment to flip that lot and sell out. What ends up being built on that lot could affect PH Towers. It's doubtful but, with all things Vegas anything is possible.

For every reason I could find to pull the trigger on the deal Perry recieved I can find another two not to do it. While it works for Perry it would not work for us.

I agree that PH will still have unique amenties and that is why I said a number of things PH originally told Perry were not as unique as they stated... but I didn't say ALL of the things... PH will still have some unique aspects that some will like and others won't.

My Quote:
..............I still don't agree with the basic premise that this resort is so unique and Perry even admitted he was unaware of the HGVC at Flamingo that has a number of the unique items that PH stated was totally unique to them............

Yes HGVC@F is a separate tower (which I liked as it was quiet when I wanted to get away from the noise). When you leave the HGVC tower you can either walk through the pool area or walk a very short distance (a covered walkway) to the back corner of the Flamingo and enter by the Flamingo shops and walk right past the front desk and into the casino and onward to the strip.
The Flamingo has shops (but not a mall like The Forum) and restaurants (including room service to the HGVC tower)... you can charge items in the hotel or casino to your room... actually pretty integrated...

Yes they have their own pool if the Flamingo pool fills up... doesn't anyone expect the PH pool to be busy? Is PH reserving a pool just for TS people to use if the the main PH pool gets busy?

I agree there will always be a latest and greatest and each resort is topped by the next one, and I don't expect PH to be any difference.

One other note... with all this talk about how valuable the strip is... about 10-15 years ago the location of The Palms would have only been considered good for a "locals" casino, but never for a cutting edge place... somehow The Palms has become the hotspot for Hollywood and the "IN" crowd... and the Excaliber is considered a budget place but the location seems to be much more valuable...

Vegas... go figure...

Pete

 

[dougp26364]

I agree that PH will still have unique amenties and that is why I said a number of things PH originally told Perry were not as unique as they stated... but I didn't say ALL of the things... PH will still have some unique aspects that some will like and others won't.

My Quote:
..............I still don't agree with the basic premise that this resort is so unique and Perry even admitted he was unaware of the HGVC at Flamingo that has a number of the unique items that PH stated was totally unique to them............

Yes HGVC@F is a separate tower (which I liked as it was quiet when I wanted to get away from the noise). When you leave the HGVC tower you can either walk through the pool area or walk a very short distance (a covered walkway) to the back corner of the Flamingo and enter by the Flamingo shops and walk right past the front desk and into the casino and onward to the strip.
The Flamingo has shops (but not a mall like The Forum) and restaurants (including room service to the HGVC tower)... you can charge items in the hotel or casino to your room... actually pretty integrated...

Yes they have their own pool if the Flamingo pool fills up... doesn't anyone expect the PH pool to be busy? Is PH reserving a pool just for TS people to use if the the main PH pool gets busy?

I agree there will always be a latest and greatest and each resort is topped by the next one, and I don't expect PH to be any difference.

One other note... with all this talk about how valuable the strip is... about 10-15 years ago the location of The Palms would have only been considered good for a "locals" casino, but never for a cutting edge place... somehow The Palms has become the hotspot for Hollywood and the "IN" crowd... and the Excaliber is considered a budget place but the location seems to be much more valuable...

Vegas... go figure...

Pete

I didn't realize there was a short covered walk to enter the Flamingo through the shopping area. That does take away some of the uniqueness of PH Towers in that respect.

It looks as though PH Towers will have a very nice, reaonably large pool complex of their own. Whether it will be big enough to accomadate two 50 story towers might be something else all together. Maybe it will but then again, there could be so many rooms that it might look large but not be large enough.

The value on the strip does not transfer over to timeshares. If it did even Polo Towers and Jockey Club would be selling for much more than they are. Neither will ever be as nice as PH Towers or any of the other new resorts that might be built on the strip. But then again the resorts being built today might not compare to those that could be built a decade down the road.

For the most part I believe we agree on most points. The main point being the the asking developer price for PH Towers is to high to really consider being profitable down the road. Perry disagree's and has good reasons for his belief. I personally don't believe the resale market for Vegas will ever be as strong as ski weeks or beach weeks and certainly not good enough to encourage me to pay those prices with the belief that I can use the property for 5 or 10 years, then get out at a price that breaks even or turns a profit.

I did buy into Marriott's Grand Chateau at developer prices but, I did so with the intention of holding onto that property, using the two bedroom unit and exchanging the one bedroom unit. I hold no belief that I will be able to use it for a number of years and then sell it for anything close to what I paid for it. Sell it for more than what I could get for Polo Towers yes but not what it cost at developer pricing. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong about that.

 

[PerryM]

Status Report

I deleted this post

 

[Shoeshine]

..........

Quote: If you can’t trust the developer,
then why on earth buy from them.


Classic !!.....


A lightbulb just popped on


-
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-

 

[timeos2]

Sign here and have a nice day

I contacted the folks a ph on Friday and asked for 2 things:

1) A written letter to confirm that Starwood is going to manage the ph Towers
2) An explanation of why the prices they quoted me, which were the listed prices at the moment for ph units, was different than the prices quoted by corporate Westgate

They agreed to provide both. They said it would take some investigation and their legal department would have to review but they would work on it as fast as they could. I’m not going to speculate as to the outcome to you folks. You demand proof and they have agreed to supply it.

???. Question: "Who is going to manage the timeshare property?"

Answer: "We are investing millions and asking potential buyers to pay tens of thousands of dollars but, right now, we have no idea who is going to manage the property. Although if we did we would have to clear the release of that information with our attorneys. But we don't so we'll have to research it and get back to you. But before we do we'll have to let the attorneys look it over. If there is anything to look over, which since we don't know, there isn't.

Thank you for your $80,000 and your interest in the Planet Hollywood Tower of Terror."

Why trust a developer and why buy from one are both very good questions and this thread, while very interesting, has done little to sway opinions toward the developer view. In fact it may well have pointed even more buyers to the far more predictable and low cost resale world.

I do want to hear exactly what the lawyers approve as an answer to the very simple questions you posed. Why it would take more than a few hours to get a reply speaks volumes about the organization and how it operates. That information should be clearly stated in the disclosure statement and thus no "research" required.

As for prices I'm surprised an experienced timeshare person doesn't know that the price is whatever they feel the buyer will tolerate at this session. If that weren't the case they would save a whole lot of time and money by simply stating this type unit cost this much. They would advertise it to bring in low overhead sales. But that isn't the model of timeshare sales. It is much closer to car sales where they will gouge you for every dollar they can even if your opening offer was higher than what they would willingly sell the car (timeshare) for. The next potential buyer may start at a different base price and the whole picture changes. Did anyone think there is only one price offered?

 

[PigsDad]

I’m not going to post anything more on this thread ...

Is that the third of forth time you have stated that on this thread ... I keep on losing count. :ignore:

Kurt

"Its a joke son, ya get it? A joke" - Foghorn Leghorn

 

[rickandcindy23]

Perry is as smart as they come when it comes to timeshare. No one should doubt that he knows what he is doing. If I could afford it, I would email him and ask the specific questions, but we are in no position to buy anything right now.

I definitely didn't understand the comment about the developer and trust, especially at the same he related the resale comment to TUG. He is not divulging everything, I would guess.

For those naysayers, I would bet Perry will be the one laughing at some point....all the way to the bank.

 

[timeos2]

Perry is as smart as they come when it comes to timeshare. No one should doubt that he knows what he is doing. If I could afford it, I would email him and ask the specific questions, but we are in no position to buy anything right now.

I definitely didn't understand the comment about the developer and trust, especially at the same he related the resale comment to TUG. He is not divulging everything, I would guess.

For those naysayers, I would bet Perry will be the one laughing at some point....all the way to the bank.

Cindy - I like Perry & usually agree with him. But the only one who ever laughs on the way to the bank at a Wastegate resort is King David. Just look at the "answers" Perry got to two extremely clear cut and important questions he dared to ask. "We'll get back to you". No wonder he added a question regarding trust and a developer. Trust them as far as you can physically throw them or maybe a bit less. There isn't one thing about this deal that sounds any different than what CFI has been foisting off on buyers for 20 years in Orlando and elsewhere. I really hope Perry can get the value out of his use as thats the only thing he'll have for sure (unless Wastegate changes the rules for that too which they have also done repeatedly at their other resorts). Whats fixed today can suddenly be float tomorrow or visa versa. Take a look at the threads about that right here on TUG and in Timesharing Today. The term timeshare weasel was coined thanks to Wastegate and thats being kind to them.

Far too risky, way too many assumptions and trust in a group not known to be trustworthy. Hopefully he has planned a back door out or simply can afford to lose some money if it comes to that. That is far more likely than ever banking a dollar in real profit on any timeshare including this one.

I'll be very happy for him if he does get to laugh at those - thats me - who doubt this plan. But I'm afraid that won't be the way the final chapter is written.

 

[gmarine]

Spoke to Westgate again yesterday. The person I spoke to the day before was not in but I spoke to a different person. Same prices that I previously posted were offered.

Again I was told that Starwood is not managing the timeshare, only the hotel.

 

[mjs]

Buying From Developer

I

"Then I'd like to move on and address just exactly when it is a good idea to buy from the developer. Because it happens here daily.

The mantra “Never buy from the developer” has got to be TUG’s legacy. But what if that’s wrong? What does this say about TUG?"

Well I cant believe it, but I will be purchasing a week 52 from a developer also--but not in Vegas.
Here are my reasons for buying from developer:
1-Week 52 is not available yet in resale
2) There is basically "ONE" particular unit I want(specific location/view)
3) Rentals of similar type units(not timeshares) are available but rental is 20 times my maintainence fee(and doesnt have the specific location I want)
4) If I ever sold, I know that I would get at least my purchase price, but my intent is never to sell /exchange or rent, but to use it yearly with family/friends
5)Preconstruction prices
No papers are signed yet in my case, so I unwilling to give info on the developer etc. It is a small resort.

Mark

 

[PerryM]

Stones...

I deleted this post

 

[GaryDouglas]

Kurt, a.k.a. PigsDad states "What is the big (perceived) draw of having a timeshare "integrated" with a casino?"

It's more than just the casino that is being considered here. It's really more "the whole package". Since I have heard this from my 20 something daughter, I know that for a certain segment of the populus that this is important, which is the availability to multiple pools, food services (including room service) and yes, a casino in the same complex. Yes, hotel goers are different than timeshare goers, but this property offers the best of both worlds (yes there is at least one other, such as the Hilton property, that offers some/all of this). For some people, these extras will be of more value to them.

Regarding the tone of the thread, I stated that only "from time to time", there could be more civility. I have no problem with the liveliness of the discussion material. This thread graduated to a second page very quickly and it certainly has a lot of interest. I probably should's say more, elst I fan the fires more.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I am a very happy Westgate Park City owner and I will make a profit when I decide to sell it....thus I will call them Wealthgate...thanks David!

 

[DeweyWhopper]

Let's put it this way; the most expensive timeshare I know of is a Week 52 at the Park Plaza in Beaver Creek CO. You can buy 2 of them right now for $260,000 and $285,000 each. .

fyi... The Hyatt Vacation Club's Residences at the Park Hyatt in Beaver Creek have a 3br for over $1,000,000!

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[bogey21]

No offense to Perry, but I'm happy to be slumming it on my 18th floor strip front skyview suite at Polo Towers. It's a guaranteed week and unit, and I can see from the Luxor to the south all the way up to the Eiffel Tower, including the Bellagio Fountains. I'm also directly across from Project City Center. I feel I slightly overpaid a little at 3K, but the view from the balcony is stunning.

From one Cheapskate to another "Well Done"!!

GEORGE

 

[timeos2]

Great value today not so good tomorrow

I am a very happy Westgate Park City owner and I will make a profit when I decide to sell it....thus I will call them Wealthgate...thanks David!

Best wishes to you and your sale someday but, until it happens, I wouldn't be counting chickens OR thanking the King. You have a really good chance of cursing his organization before you ever cash out. It's only history speaking but you know what they say.

As for the TUG "don't buy from developer" the rule isn't quite that strict. There are cases, although rare, where a developer purchase can make sense. It is not the absolute that "Never pay upfront fees" would be. But it doesn't happen often so you have to be very sure of what you're getting and the value to you. Stretching it all the way out to the eventual resale value is a reach with any timeshare as there is just no way to accurately predict the value in 5, 10, 15 or more years down the road. Far too many variables you have zero control over in a timeshare environment. Again history says the value will go down from the retail price, very rarely will it go up. The most likely reason for a developer purchase is to get a new resort, special view, exact unit - things that are use based and hold a value to the original buyer. Resale value hardly ever plays when talking about developer prices. There is just too much sales overhead and far too many unknowns the way the system is set up. Not to say it can't happen but the odds are astronomical against the buyer.