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Pete Rose dies at 83 years old

pedro47

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IMHO, he should be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame with three (3) asterisks beside his name; explaining his transgressions. Betting and gambling on baseball games and his denials he cheated over the passed three (3) decades.
 

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slip

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I think having Pete in the HOF won't hurt the Hall's integrity but not having him in does hurt its credibility.
I don't think it hurts the credibility of the Hall one bit not having him in. Just my two cents.
 

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I think having Pete in the HOF won't hurt the Hall's integrity but not having him in does hurt its credibility.


I also don't think it hurts the "integrity" of the Hall of Fame, he's still in Cooperstown with all his baseball records

"Pete Rose was never inducted into Cooperstown but his career was well represented. Items at the Baseball Hall include his helmet from his MVP 1973 season, the bat he used in 1978 when his hitting streak reached 44 and the cleats he wore, in 1985, on the day he became the game's hits king"
 

pedro47

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The Hall, IMHO, hurt it own credibility when they allowed steroids baseball players in the Hall. Those ball players cheated the system and every players playing the game and everyone in baseball management knew they used steroid to enchant their careers. That is a factual statement.
 

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I also don't think it hurts the "integrity" of the Hall of Fame, he's still in Cooperstown with all his baseball records

"Pete Rose was never inducted into Cooperstown but his career was well represented. Items at the Baseball Hall include his helmet from his MVP 1973 season, the bat he used in 1978 when his hitting streak reached 44 and the cleats he wore, in 1985, on the day he became the game's hits king"
So why the dichotomy between having his MVP helmet, hitting streak bat, and cleats in the HOF but keep him out? That doesn't sound very logical.
 

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I realize I probably just need to watch some Moo Deng on livestream and chill out haha.
 

slip

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So why the dichotomy between having his MVP helmet, hitting streak bat, and cleats in the HOF but keep him out? That doesn't sound very logical.
It's all in being a Member of the Hall of Fame.
 

slip

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Every MLB game, stadium, and team: Now brought to you by gambling! SO MUCH GAMBLING!

Me: Okay. That means you’ll let Pete Rose or, at least, Shoeless Joe Jackson into the HOF, right?

MLB:
Many people don't agree but I see a big difference in people betting on games and allowing the players to bet on games.

Joe Jackson was a different situation too. He played extremely well in the series but he took the money. I don't think he should be a member of the Hall of Fame either.
 

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Imho, he should be in. As far as I know, he was never accused of throwing games. His bets were always on his team to win. Please correct me if I’m wrong about that and it will change my opinion.

Pete had an addiction which is medically recognized as a chronic mental health condition. There are other players in the HoF who also broke rules. Several used steroids which artificially increased their strength and promoted quicker healing from injury, which gave them a competitive advantage over players who did not take steroids. Rose’s betting on his own team had no impact on the games and was not a competitive advantage.

I don’t know what good it does to induct him posthumously, but I also don’t know how you can have a HoF and not include MLB's all-time leader in hits(4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053), singles (3,215) and outs (10,328). He also played on teams that won 3 World Series, won 2 Gold Glove awards, made 17 All-Star teams and won an MVP award.

If you’re going to admit the steroid guys in the HoF, how can you justify not admitting a guy whose crime was actually a mental illness? Pete bet on games. FanDuel is now the official sports betting partner of MLB. How hypocritical!
 

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Imho, he should be in. As far as I know, he was never accused of throwing games. His bets were always on his team to win. Please correct me if I’m wrong about that and it will change my opinion.

Pete had an addiction which is medically recognized as a chronic mental health condition. There are other players in the HoF who also broke rules. Several used steroids which artificially increased their strength and promoted quicker healing from injury, which gave them a competitive advantage over players who did not take steroids. Rose’s betting on his own team had no impact on the games and was not a competitive advantage.

I don’t know what good it does to induct him posthumously, but I also don’t know how you can have a HoF and not include MLB's all-time leader in hits(4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053), singles (3,215) and outs (10,328). He also played on teams that won 3 World Series, won 2 Gold Glove awards, made 17 All-Star teams and won an MVP award.

If you’re going to admit the steroid guys in the HoF, how can you justify not admitting a guy whose crime was actually a mental illness? Pete bet on games. FanDuel is now the official sports betting partner of MLB. How hypocritical!
Yes, there is evidence that he bet on his team to lose.
 

slip

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That is totally false. There has never been evidence that he bet against his team.
While the information from baseballs investigation hasn't been released, people involved have said the evidence is there. You can make up your own mind about it and it seems like you already have. We'll agree to disagree.
 

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While the information from baseballs investigation hasn't been released, people involved have said the evidence is there. You can make up your own mind about it and it seems like you already have. We'll agree to disagree.
I respect your position, @slip but if they have that evidence, why not release it? What is MLB afraid of? To me, it just isn’t fair to say we have this evidence but we’re not going to show it to you because we’ve already found him guilty. Are there others involved that they let slide? Is there also contradicting evidence they don’t want us to see. Imo, MLB has bungled this whole thing for 40 years. It’s kind of ironic when you think about it, MLB held all the cards, but refused to show them.
 

pedro47

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RIP: Pete “charley hustle “ Rose.
Everyone, is still discussing your lifestyle In baseball and your life activities outside of baseball.
 

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I respect your position, @slip but if they have that evidence, why not release it? What is MLB afraid of? To me, it just isn’t fair to say we have this evidence but we’re not going to show it to you because we’ve already found him guilty. Are there others involved that they let slide? Is there also contradicting evidence they don’t want us to see. Imo, MLB has bungled this whole thing for 40 years. It’s kind of ironic when you think about it, MLB held all the cards, but refused to show them.
MLB isn’t releasing this “information” for one reason……
 
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I grew up as a Cincinnati Reds fan and experienced the Big Red Machine years. Pete Rose was a key reason for their success and his 'hustle' mentality made those around him a better baseball player. He did more with his limited talent than any other sports star that I can remember. He lived baseball and wasn't refined or well educated outside of the sport. He also suffered from a terrible gambling addition. He deserves to be in the HOF, especially now that baseball encourages and makes money from gambling. Here is a great article from 'Doc' Daugherty, a former local sportswriter who now has a substack site. He captures Pete's situation better than others I've seen.
"

"Of all the things you’d imagine happening to Pete Rose, dying wasn’t among them.

Pete the player, not running out everything, not running to 1st base after walking, not offering up a filthy jersey nightly to Bernie Stowe, the Reds clubhouse manager. We couldn’t imagine that.

Pete the gambler, not betting on baseball, football, the ponies et cetera, et cetera. Pete not proclaiming his innocence for an entire generation. Pete the seemingly exuberant spirit, not showing a strong face to an increasingly skeptical public. We could never grasp that.

Pete selling his signature in any number of creative ways. Hit King. 4,256. I Shouldn’t Have Done It. Mocking the folks he long ago stopped trying to appease.

Pete Rose, not being anyone other than Pete Rose. We definitely couldn’t picture that. All it cost him was all he ever wanted.

Baseball didn’t define him, at least no more than he defined the game. Even his fatal flaw is part of the game’s legacy. Shoeless Joe would get the analogy.

But Pete. . . dead?

That’s a hard sell.

Pete Pan played a kid’s game the way a kid would play it. He had that barrel chest, those Popeye forearms and that little kid’s optimism that everything would be all right as long as he could play ball until the streetlights came on.

He battled Bart Giamatti with that belief. He outlasted the commissioner, same as he did Cobb. Rose’s protests of innocence would overwhelm Giamatti’s conscience.

. . . until it became obvious they wouldn’t. Faced with that realization, Rose started selling his guilt. That, too, is part of his legacy. He wrote (yet another) book, called My Prison Without Bars, that suggested that, yeah, he mighta bet on baseball and that, possibly, he shouldna did it.

I covered Pete from 1988 until today. He was a practiced liar. He was like OJ Simpson, in that he told The Big Lie so much, he started believing it. Pete never killed anyone, unless you believe his lies did himself in.

I recall that Summer of ‘89, the year MLB had its teeth in him. I remember on many occasions sitting alone in Rose’s office at Riverfront Stadium, waiting him out as The Hit King showered, shaved and dressed. I’d ask him about John Dowd’s investigation and Bart Giamatti’s mission.

Pete would listen to it all, then answer in such a practiced, convincing way, I’d leave his office believing Baseball was railroading him. Pete could sell the moon to a gourmand seeking camembert.

Then I’d literally smack myself upside the head before I attempted my latest interpretation of Baseball’s saddest saga ever. Of course Pete bet on the game.

Then something fortunate happened for Rose. Baseball became a bigger villain than Pete was. Rose gained sympathy when Baseball joined the devil it already knew very well. Just sayin’:

How could a business that kept Pete Rose on the outside embrace sports gambling so hypocritically completely?

Betting in ballparks, betting in casinos, betting as easy as turning on your phone. Ads for betting lining the outfield walls and filling the TV acreage. Shohei Ohtani’s personal bobo, stealing millions of his boss’s dollars, to bet on sports.

Rose might have been a chronic gambler. Baseball became a casual hypocrite. Which ls less honest?

Still, Pete remained on the game’s doorstep, nose pressed against its window, until he died at age 83. You make peace with yourself on this one. Either Rose belonged in the Hall of Fame, or he didn’t.

Either you pardon a guy who has been in the joint since August 24, 1989, or you maintain he violated the game’s “cardinal rule’’ against betting. A rule that at the very least is being mocked and flouted now, every second of every day.

Either you acknowledge Rose has “earned’’ his place on Olympus, or he’s still a scoundrel. From Day 1, I’ve said this about that:

Honor the player. Punish the gambler. Life is not a succession of black and white circumstances. It is lived in multi-shades of gray. None is grayer than the life of Peter Edward Rose.

No player defined a city, in any sport, more than Rose defined what we like to think is great about our town. Roll out the cliches, they were all made to describe Pete and Cincinnati. Hard-working, overachieving, a tad short of perfection. Pete always had a little Bad Boy in him. Cincinnati, a haven for the whiskey business during Prohibition, knew all about that. Neither town nor native son was entirely saintly.

Only now, Pete’s gone. That’s an impossible notion, yet here it is, sliding headfirst into. . . somewhere.

. . . . into our memories, at least. And if that’s it, if that’s the essence of our recollections of The Hit King, then OK. Pete the Player will always have a place here."
This is AMAZINGLY well written. I side on the side of let the man in. I mean, he didnt do any crimes again PEOPLE... the way some sports athletes have screwed up. Domestic abuse, the stupid accidents that have cost innocent people their lives... i mean yeah betting on baseball might be a huge no no to somebody, but basically I think if he was a great player and he's THAT important to the game, he should be with the greats.

I dont know his story or anything im just reading off what I know, and what ive heard people speak of him.
 

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MLB isn’t releasing this “information” for one reason……
The only reason I can think of is that it would be embarrassing to MLB. Otherwise, it would seem to me that they would want to close the book on the issue.
 
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You sure about that?
Like I said, I dont know his whole story. When i say crimes against people I mean his big bad no no thing was sports betting, he didnt murder anyone or cause physical harm and THAT be his big "negative claim to fame"

He's not Aaron Hernandez or OJ Simpson is what im getting at....

AGAIN if he did do something, apparently that wasnt big enough to constantly be mentioned when his name comes up. I would hope he has not hurt people 😪
 
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