PA state troopers called - vacation home trashed [merged]

[pgnewarkboy]

Looks great. I love the doors ... and the furniture.

Call me vindictive, but I want these kids punished.

The desire to punish these kids has very little to do with the loss of property. It has to do with the VIOLATION of physical personalprivacy. A sense of personal violation that comes when someone does something destructive to your things. Once again, PERSONAL violation. Although the insurance can pay or replace the damaged items the insurance cannot pay for or replace the sense that your PERSON has been violated, injured. This kind of act of vandalism often creates a sense of fear for safety of the person. Someone has entered your private personal space and done something you didn't want them to do. That is the justifiable crux of the desire for revenge - not so much the loss of property. The loss of control over your personal space, and by extension your person.

 

[VivianLynne]

Great progress and I like the new furniture--especially that nice large ottoman.

It is still unbelievable that those who did this will walk away unscathed. Meanwhile, it's obvious you have suffered great financial and personal sacrifice for their destructive behavior. And to not get paid for your time...

Well, it's going to be beautiful when all is done.

The ottoman is "recycled" leather. I thought all leather was recycled right off the poor steer who used to use it as a coat.

 

[VivianLynne]

Beautiful work. I love the couch etc.

Am I interpreting the posts above right...you are NOT being compensated for your many hours of labor???

Not a penny. Unless you have done major work at your house, you can't understand the hassle a money-hungry clown/contractor can cause you. And to be 125 miles from the job site? Believe me, this is work - but the stress is much lower. No modifications to the contract, no where is the contractor this AM, what is "THAT?", that is NOT what I picked out, etc.

Yes, the job might have been done faster - but I would have had to be there 100% of the time and just been pissed off 75% of the time.

And I truly like the work that is getting done. And it is getting done LIKE I want it. The guy doing the work has been working for me for years. And he likes his work and going to work. Think of it like a 8 month long weekend project at your house - only I either have gone back to Shawnee to sleep or back home for 2 weeks before coming back up for a week of hard work.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Looks great. I love the doors ... and the furniture.

Call me vindictive, but I want these kids punished.

Back up in Post 34 (where the punishment thread was merged into this original thread), there was a series of various opinions on that subject.

 

[pjrose]

. . . Years ago [DD] broke things in anger several times - and had consequences, such as cleaning up, paying back, apology note.....and in the case of driving my car without a license and wrecking it, probation, fine, and community service.

She said if someone did that to her house she would be angry and stressed, saw the damage to your house as an invasion of privacy, and said there definitely need to be consequences. . . .

. . .

It is still unbelievable that those who did this will walk away unscathed. Meanwhile, it's obvious you have suffered great financial and personal sacrifice for their destructive behavior. . . . .

. . .
Call me vindictive, but I want these kids punished.

I don't think that's vindictive at all; those who break laws need consequences for many reasons, including learning that lawbreaking is serious and showing others that there are consequences to lawbreaking.

The desire to punish these kids has very little to do with the loss of property. It has to do with the VIOLATION of physical personal privacy. A sense of personal violation that comes when someone does something destructive to your things. Once again, PERSONAL violation. Although the insurance can pay or replace the damaged items the insurance cannot pay for or replace the sense that your PERSON has been violated, injured. This kind of act of vandalism often creates a sense of fear for safety of the person. Someone has entered your private personal space and done something you didn't want them to do. That is the justifiable crux of the desire for revenge - not so much the loss of property. The loss of control over your personal space, and by extension your person.

It's more than that, pgnewarkboy; they also broke laws, and may learn that they can get away with it.

DD accidentally set fire to her ex-BFs kitchen, and the likelihood is that the apartment complex's insurance company will seek restitution. I can't imagine that in this case the insurance company won't, but I'm sure Viv will keep us updated.

Back up in Post 34 (where the punishment thread was merged into this original thread), there was a series of various opinions on that subject.

Opinions on the punishment were varied, but I don't recall anybody thinking they should just waltz off with no consequences at all.

 

[Passepartout]

Opinions on the punishment were varied, but I don't recall anybody thinking they should just waltz off with no consequences at all.

Oh, I'd surmise that the kids' parents would prefer that the little snots waltz off unpunished, because they (the parents) would then get off scot free. They just didn't post as much here.

Jim

 

[Zac495]

I love what you've done!

 

[pjrose]

Oh, I'd surmise that the kids' parents would prefer that the little snots waltz off unpunished, because they (the parents) would then get off scot free. They just didn't post as much here.

Jim

Right as usual, Jim....though if DD were one of the culprits, I'd want her to have a lot of community service and probation and restitution, recognizing that the latter would take a long time.


Viv's, I do admire your positivity about this. You've done work many of us wouldn't consider, done a heck of a super job, and are focusing on your beautiful house. That's really a great attitude!

 

[am1]

Right as usual, Jim....though if DD were one of the culprits, I'd want her to have a lot of community service and probation and restitution, recognizing that the latter would take a long time.

Jail time? Go after the parents for damages?

 

[pjrose]

Jail time? Go after the parents for damages?

Please see the previous posts.....I was responding to Jim's comment that their parents probably didn't want them to have consequences, and saying that if it were my daughter I'd want consequences. I wouldn't vote for jail time for my daughter, not that I'd have a vote. And yes, I think there should be restitution.

 

[grupp]

Can't cut me a check.

But the real killer is a "contractor" would get 20% PLUS the cost of material and labor as "Profit and Over-run" factor on his estimates in addition to going back for "adjustor" adjustments. So a $30,000 "get started" check would also have included a $6,000 Cost Plus for $36,000. And you wonder why contractors flock to fire jobs? Remember, they can also hit the homeowner up for "your insurance company isn't paying for that, but we can write up a CASH ADD-ON modification to your repairs".

I did not want to be fighting a losing war with a local contractor.

Vivan
The General Contractors Overhead and Profit is a misunderstood concept and one that is sometimes abused by insurance companies. I have been in insurance claims for 25 years and can tell you, in my opinion, you are entitled to the O&P depiste the fact you did the work yourself. I would definately pay it if it came accross my desk.

But you don't know me and and am sure your adjsuster won't pay you just because I say so. So maybe he should read Mee vs Safeco and see what the PA Superior Court had to say about that issue. According to this case, if it can established that the use of a Genral Contractor would be reasonably likely, you are entitled to the O&P even if you act as own general contractor and do the work youself. With the amount of damage sustained, I don't believe there is any doubt the O&P should be paid to you.

If they do not pay you the O&P you should contact the Department of Insurance in PA. I guess another option would be file in small claims court, but I really don't know PA law regarding what can be submitted there.

Let me know if any questions and good luck.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-superior-court/1164464.html


Gary

 

[jerseygirl]

Go Gary! I sure hope she gets it!!

 

[VivianLynne]

Vivan
The General Contractors Overhead and Profit is a misunderstood concept and one that is sometimes abused by insurance companies. I have been in insurance claims for 25 years and can tell you, in my opinion, you are entitled to the O&P depiste the fact you did the work yourself. I would definately pay it if it came accross my desk.

But you don't know me and and am sure your adjsuster won't pay you just because I say so. So maybe he should read Mee vs Safeco and see what the PA Superior Court had to say about that issue. According to this case, if it can established that the use of a Genral Contractor would be reasonably likely, you are entitled to the O&P even if you act as own general contractor and do the work youself. With the amount of damage sustained, I don't believe there is any doubt the O&P should be paid to you.

If they do not pay you the O&P you should contact the Department of Insurance in PA. I guess another option would be file in small claims court, but I really don't know PA law regarding what can be submitted there.

Let me know if any questions and good luck.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/pa-superior-court/1164464.html


Gary

Gary,
I could kiss you!

I truly hope that does play out per your case law reference. I know they won't "give" it to me, but this has been considerable time and effort on my part. Additionally, I have expenses with interest costs and gasoline to pickup/shop for material (true overhead costs). There is never a "PROFIT" for a homeowner to go thru this - the reward will be a restored property. And in my case, it will be somewhat updated in marginal areas like color of the walls, new flooring, and Energy Star windows with tint (the only way those wood Pella windows are sold).

Thank you for that reference. Hope helps!

 

[grupp]

Vivian

The expenses you list are exactly why you should receive the O&P as these are expense related to the covered repairs.

Not sure where you are in the oveall process, but an approach I might try would be to mail or email a request for the O&P to your adjuster, including a copy (or link if emailed) to Mee vs Safeco. I would also ask that if they deny coverage for those expenses that they provide a written explaination as to the basis for denial and policy provisions that support their position.

In an unrelated note, I am not very familiar with PA, but my daugher is a freshman at Lafayette in Easton. So, have been out there a couple of times (will be there this weekend for Family Weekend). She likes to ski and just wondering if you had any recommendations for places to ski in that area.

Gary

 

[VivianLynne]

Vivian

...In an unrelated note, I am not very familiar with PA, but my daugher is a freshman at Lafayette in Easton. So, have been out there a couple of times (will be there this weekend for Family Weekend). She likes to ski and just wondering if you had any recommendations for places to ski in that area.

Gary

Blue Mountain is the closest hill. Then most likely in desceding order is Camelback, Shawnee, Big Boulder, Jack Frost and the Elk Mountain. This is NOT Vermont or Western US skiing. Most have night skiing and student tickets or days along with annual passes.

As for recommendations ... skiied Blue once when it first opened, Camelback alot (closest to my house - around 800 vertical years ago), BB had about 450 feet on baby hills, Jack Frost was longer with a northern exposeure (BB/JF are the same management/owners), and Elk is about 1,000 vertical with northern exposure. It has been years since I skiied - some many be closed or renovated into bigger/better. Shawnee - never skiied there.

 

[VivianLynne]

Have the insurance adjustor coming out Monday Oct 29 at 12:30PM for a walk thru. While the bifold doors are NOT installed, they are there and stained & poly'ed - almost everything else is done. I think she has to get it "like done" on the work as Nov 3 would be the 8th month anniversity of the claim.

Have to work on the personal property list this weekend --- while waiting for Sandy's path to be firmed up on the forecast.

 

[VivianLynne]

My insurance adjuster and I did NOT met on Oct 29 --- due to the impending storm "Sandy". It was safe for us to meet, but not for my 125 mile trip back home.

Just got home from the first work week for my contractor there since August 25th. We got most of the closet bi-fold doors hung. Patched the mortar on the fireplace (and built a couple of fires), hung the last kitchen cabinet and the major job, to install NEW insulation in the crawl space and wrap the plumbing pipes in hat tape.

The broken pipe under the kitchen sink rang until the well pump quit and all that water ran onto the floor, thru the floor and into the insulation under the floor in the crawl space. It was removed when we had the dumpster back in April (at the start of working).

Updated the pictures on "Flickr" with the intalled doors on the laundry closet in the hall, both bedroom closet doors & the wood floor, and the new oriental rugs on the hardwood floors in the LR and DR.

 

[VivianLynne]

PHOTOS!!!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/83640272@N02/7679619016/in/photostream/

New photos from today Nov 9 ....

Interior closet doors installed in both BDrs and laundry closet on hallway, oriental rugs on the hardwood floors in LR and DR.

New and stained Kitchen window over the sink.

 

[VivianLynne]

The HOUSE IS REPAIRED - IT PASSED!

Here it is the week before Christmas and the insurance adjuster "passed" the house last Tuesday. It is DONE in her eyes.

And I handed in the personal property worksheets - then I started having dreams of all the stuff I had forgotten to put on the personal property sheets. :hysterical:

So, my contractor and I enjoyed another round of drinks that night in front of the lit fireplace sitting on the green plastic deck chairs with the overturned 5 gallon bucket as a table for our glasses. And as that is ALL the furniture up there - you need a drink or 3 to fall asleep in your sleeping bags on the floor.

Oh, and did I mention, the Walmart plastic cheapo table clothes are the windows "drapes". Used the old staple gun to hang them from the top of the window and door moldings.

And I forgot my camera --- dang! I wanted to post pictures as we hauled all the construction debris and equipment back home with us.

 

[jerseygirl]

Whoa - I missed the last update. It looks great!!

 

[MuranoJo]

Congrats, Viv! Just in time for the holidays.

 

[VivianLynne]

Got a letter from the insurance adjuster today! I sent off my receipt copies for the repairs to the house on March 1st with proof of mailing. It was thick. Her letter was it will take time to review against the estimates - good luck, is what I thought.

3 weeks ago I brought 2 sets of queen size mattresses and box springs - Paula Deen Serta's foam, 10 year (full) warrenty. Mattresses now at my real house in the garage until I take them to the Poconos house over Easter weekend. Then I will finally have a BED to sleep on verses the floor. I was up to the house about 5 weeks ago - to both check on it and to drag some kitchen stuff up there. With my dark kitchen decor - blank countertops and backsplash, I decide the accent color should be "red".

Next will be a sofa. Then I can move the green plastic patio chairs to sit arouond the green plastic patio table ...

 

[VivianLynne]

Okay, the 2 mattresses (but not the box springs) are at the house (sitting in the area between the living room and dining area). I went up with one of my friends who took my picture on the porch at Shawnee. Figured if they were going to help me, I should not expect them to sleep in the floor. Got another rug for the larger BDR -- need another set of hands to get the box springs up there, set up the bed frames, and set the mattresses.

Late March, I was up there for a night or two to put together some cubes for the LR wall and to organize stuff. Yes, I stayed at the house and slept on the sleeping bags.

My mattress helper email me the personal photo from the screen in Shawnee porch.

So new pictures on Flicka under "rebuilt rooms".

 

[VivianLynne]

...http://www.flickr.com/photos/83640272@N02/7679619016/in/photostream/

Here is the Flicka link ... under rebuilt rooms - 4 new photos.

 

[VivianLynne]

As I was up there and just doing some housekeeping and straightening out, I call my PA State Trooper (who was in the barracks) and called the Monroe County Victim Advocate.

Trooper is still doing interviews and following up leads as time allows due to more serious cases. Did ask him what was the Statue of Limitations - basicly it is 2 years unless the identities are determined from fingerprints which might be added to the system YEARS later -- then that limitation is from the date of the fingerprint match. But if could be 5 years, if a handle as a Major Crime (maybe).

So, I next called the Victim Advocate's Office. She called me back inside of 30 minutes and did the, "who are you?" and "I don't have any record of YOU or any crime". And that is because, no one has been arrested. She was going to call the trooper and get back to me. According to her, she does not handle VICTIMS until someone is arrested ... that prove to me it was a government job.