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owner update topic - "point manipulation"

luvNMB52

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We just got back from Old Town Alexandria (great resort!). Got $100 in restaurant gift cards (4 @ $25) to attend the update. Seemingly had a bait & switch team. Real low key guy getting answers to a survey suddenly had to leave for a phone call and fast talking new guy comes in wanting to know if we are willing to be "coached" on how to manipulate our points. Curiosity got the best of us so we agreed (had my phone alarm set to insure an interruption). He told us we needed a small amount of additional points to get a second use year that would overlap our current use year. We would then have a period of time that would give us access to two year's worth of points at the same time (not totally sure I understand that, but that's what he said). Tactic is to get upgraded unit at discounted points amount 100% of the time. How?? Double book (a small unit & unit of choice) at desired resort. At 60 days out, cancel small unit & rebook at discounted points amount. At 30 days (we are silver VIP), check to see what updates are available. If none, then cancel the unit of choice booked earlier and that will become the needed upgrade. I questioned if that wouldn't be risky and possibly lose the unit to someone else and he assured us that was very unlikely.... (yeah, whatever!). He "searched" (with our consent) to see what he could find that would be "inexpensive." Came up with 64,000 points for around $10,000 (with a different use year). It was very easy to say no and walk away. Of course at this point, he became very testy and pretty much inferred that we were really stupid not to do what he advised. Thank goodness, I knew if we should decide to try and use this "tactic," that we could get some additional points in a different use year through re-sale and use our $10,000 much more wisely. thanks, TUG!! BTW - some of you who have lots of points, do you think this type of points manipulation would work? He also made a big point of making a reservation and cancelling it (using the second use year) to keep from ever losing points. Could that really work?? Thanks for any thoughts on this.... ~Melinda
 

ronparise

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We just got back from Old Town Alexandria (great resort!). Got $100 in restaurant gift cards (4 @ $25) to attend the update. Seemingly had a bait & switch team. Real low key guy getting answers to a survey suddenly had to leave for a phone call and fast talking new guy comes in wanting to know if we are willing to be "coached" on how to manipulate our points. Curiosity got the best of us so we agreed (had my phone alarm set to insure an interruption). He told us we needed a small amount of additional points to get a second use year that would overlap our current use year. We would then have a period of time that would give us access to two year's worth of points at the same time (not totally sure I understand that, but that's what he said). Tactic is to get upgraded unit at discounted points amount 100% of the time. How?? Double book (a small unit & unit of choice) at desired resort. At 60 days out, cancel small unit & rebook at discounted points amount. At 30 days (we are silver VIP), check to see what updates are available. If none, then cancel the unit of choice booked earlier and that will become the needed upgrade. I questioned if that wouldn't be risky and possibly lose the unit to someone else and he assured us that was very unlikely.... (yeah, whatever!). He "searched" (with our consent) to see what he could find that would be "inexpensive." Came up with 64,000 points for around $10,000 (with a different use year). It was very easy to say no and walk away. Of course at this point, he became very testy and pretty much inferred that we were really stupid not to do what he advised. Thank goodness, I knew if we should decide to try and use this "tactic," that we could get some additional points in a different use year through re-sale and use our $10,000 much more wisely. thanks, TUG!! BTW - some of you who have lots of points, do you think this type of points manipulation would work? He also made a big point of making a reservation and cancelling it (using the second use year) to keep from ever losing points. Could that really work?? Thanks for any thoughts on this.... ~Melinda

I just did exactly that...but I didnt need a second use year to make it happen, I just needed enough points

I booked a one bedroom and a three bedroom I cancelled and rebooked the one bedroom at 60 days for a 25% discount and at 30 days cancelled the three, and upgraded the one to that three....so the end result was a three bedroom at a discounted one bedroom price...ezpz...but I have a few more gray hairs (if thats possible) and if it hadnt worked I would be on the website 7am to 11:45 pm looking for another unit at any price and any size..there will be 6 of us checking in \...a one bedroom wouldnt work risky? for sure

If you want a second use year, and I can see some advantages to doing just that, visit ebay..there are plenty to choose from
 

rrlongwell

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We just got back from Old Town Alexandria (great resort!). Got $100 in restaurant gift cards (4 @ $25) to attend the update. Seemingly had a bait & switch team. Real low key guy getting answers to a survey suddenly had to leave for a phone call and fast talking new guy comes in wanting to know if we are willing to be "coached" on how to manipulate our points. Curiosity got the best of us so we agreed (had my phone alarm set to insure an interruption). He told us we needed a small amount of additional points to get a second use year that would overlap our current use year. We would then have a period of time that would give us access to two year's worth of points at the same time (not totally sure I understand that, but that's what he said). Tactic is to get upgraded unit at discounted points amount 100% of the time. How?? Double book (a small unit & unit of choice) at desired resort. At 60 days out, cancel small unit & rebook at discounted points amount. At 30 days (we are silver VIP), check to see what updates are available. If none, then cancel the unit of choice booked earlier and that will become the needed upgrade. I questioned if that wouldn't be risky and possibly lose the unit to someone else and he assured us that was very unlikely.... (yeah, whatever!). He "searched" (with our consent) to see what he could find that would be "inexpensive." Came up with 64,000 points for around $10,000 (with a different use year). It was very easy to say no and walk away. Of course at this point, he became very testy and pretty much inferred that we were really stupid not to do what he advised. Thank goodness, I knew if we should decide to try and use this "tactic," that we could get some additional points in a different use year through re-sale and use our $10,000 much more wisely. thanks, TUG!! BTW - some of you who have lots of points, do you think this type of points manipulation would work? He also made a big point of making a reservation and cancelling it (using the second use year) to keep from ever losing points. Could that really work?? Thanks for any thoughts on this.... ~Melinda

It is possable to do this and according to reports, a number of people do. The National Harbor sales group is still talking about this also. But not in the detail you provided. Since you are a Silver VIP, you probably do not have a sufficient number of points to do this very often in the year.

I have more than one use year and I like it a lot for other reasons. Actually, in a lot of cases this is more generous than was described. It has to do with were the cancelled points go to (refering to the use year). This can actually cut for or against you if you are not careful.

If you are flexable on the specific location you are looking at and not trying this trick in the prime season, you might want to look at booking what you want where you want to. Then at the appropriate time, go in and book a second one at that location with the discount or at another location that you would also find acceptable for that timeframe. There is not a guarentee as far as I know that this will work under either system 100 percent of the time. If you were VIP Platinium, it would work most of the time because the discount window is 60 days and not 30 days.

It is not a requirement to have multiple use years for this to work.

Flordia has a bunch of resorts fairly close to gether. Shawnee Village has this set up also. National Harbor and Old Town Alexandria would be in this catagory. The last one that I am aware of (I am sure there are probably more) is the Williamsburg group of resorts.

Sorry, forgot the two in Seiverville, Tenn. (Smokey Mountain and the new one).
 
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chapjim

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some of you who have lots of points, do you think this type of points manipulation would work?

I do it every chance I get. It works quite often for non-event/non-holiday weeks (weekends) even without booking the smaller unit with the larger one. However, if you want to play that game for popular weeks or weekends, getting the smaller unit is a necessity. Here is the ideal: book a 1BR deluxe and whatever 3BR or presidential units you can. You can ride the 1BR deluxe unit multiple times. Then, hope the resort sells out. Then, hope it didn't overbook. And, while you're at it, hope Wyndham doesn't grab your 3BR cancellation for Extra Holidays!
 

Millisara

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Can you explain the discount window or direct me to that explaination? Is it only available for VIP owners. I have a 374,000 resale at Old Town Alexandria. Thanks in advance
 

ronparise

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only VIP , for discounts and upgrades; but there are often discounts available close to check in
 

SOS8260456

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Someone on this board (not sure who) reported that when she tried this, at least twice the unit did not go back into general inventory. Apparently Wyndham had oversold those particular resorts and was automatically grabbing any unit cancellations. So this is not something to try with a vacation that you can't afford to lose.
 

rrlongwell

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Someone on this board (not sure who) reported that when she tried this, at least twice the unit did not go back into general inventory. Apparently Wyndham had oversold those particular resorts and was automatically grabbing any unit cancellations. So this is not something to try with a vacation that you can't afford to lose.

This is the bottom line on the issue.
 

luvNMB52

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This was the concern I had when at the update. Some reservations are just too important to risk. I don't think I would try this unless it was a unit I could afford to lose.
 

jjmanthei05

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Someone on this board (not sure who) reported that when she tried this, at least twice the unit did not go back into general inventory. Apparently Wyndham had oversold those particular resorts and was automatically grabbing any unit cancellations. So this is not something to try with a vacation that you can't afford to lose.

I think it was more likely their rental arm grabbed it for additional inventory.

I just did exactly that...but I didnt need a second use year to make it happen, I just needed enough points

I booked a one bedroom and a three bedroom I cancelled and rebooked the one bedroom at 60 days for a 25% discount and at 30 days cancelled the three, and upgraded the one to that three....so the end result was a three bedroom at a discounted one bedroom price...ezpz...but I have a few more gray hairs (if thats possible) and if it hadnt worked I would be on the website 7am to 11:45 pm looking for another unit at any price and any size..there will be 6 of us checking in \...a one bedroom wouldnt work risky? for sure

If you want a second use year, and I can see some advantages to doing just that, visit ebay..there are plenty to choose from

Ron,

In your situation it probably makes more sense to do everything at the 30 day mark instead of canceling at 60 and upgrading at 30 because that would cost 2 reservation transactions unless you needed the extra points for another reservation in between the 30 and 60 day windows. Also this could help with your "gray hair" issue. If you cancel the 1 bedroom at the 30 day mark and don't get it back then you know not to cancel the 3 and just have to deal with full points. Otherwise you should be good to cancel the 3 and get the upgrade.

Jason
 

Cheryl20772

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If you cancel the 1 bedroom at the 30 day mark and don't get it back then you know not to cancel the 3 and just have to deal with full points. Otherwise you should be good to cancel the 3 and get the upgrade.

Jason

Isn't the trick to cancel the 3 first? Then use the 1 to get upgraded to the 3 you hoped to just put back into inventory? I just suspect it would never work for me if I tried it. You wouldn't want to get stuck with just the one if you needed a 3.
 

jjmanthei05

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Isn't the trick to cancel the 3 first? Then use the 1 to get upgraded to the 3 you hoped to just put back into inventory? I just suspect it would never work for me if I tried it. You wouldn't want to get stuck with just the one if you needed a 3.

No you cancel the 1 first because then you get your discount on the 1 bedroom. Then after you get the 1 bed back you cancel the 3 and hit the upgrade button on your 1 bedroom. If you canceled the 3 first you would never get the discount on the 1 bedroom.

Jason
 

julieajr

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I have more than one use year and I like it a lot for other reasons. Actually, in a lot of cases this is more generous than was described. It has to do with were the cancelled points go to (refering to the use year). This can actually cut for or against you if you are not careful.

I have two use years (Jan 1, July 1). I have 118K points that are due to expire on June 30. Is there any way to book/cancel to get them moved into the next use year (July 1)?

Thanks for the help.

Julie
 

rrlongwell

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I have two use years (Jan 1, July 1). I have 118K points that are due to expire on June 30. Is there any way to book/cancel to get them moved into the next use year (July 1)?

Thanks for the help.

Julie

You can try and book a reservation for August than cancel it and see what happens. In this part of Wyndhamland, the results do not appear to be constant. It will take a day for the cancelled points to show up on the points screen on-line.

What you are talking about is not point manipulation (please see page 280 of the members directory). It may not always happen, but what Wyndham has told me is they are supposed to go back to the use year that the resevation was to be used in. If more than one use year is applicable, then the one that has the experation date furthest in the future is the one they go to. I am not sure that happens all of the time. Depending on the year and how I use my PIC contract, I have two or three use years. Either I am not consistant or the computer is not. I have been caught in a short term bind a couple of times because the cancelled points did not end up where I thought they would.
 
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Sandi Bo

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Somehow I missed this thread earlier... I went to the same presentation in Alexandria.

We have 3 deeds all the same use year and were given the same use year pitch that OP received. I do think it SHOULD work (as several have stated). I am now looking for an additional contract with a different use year. (Salesperson told me we couldn't do this with resale - I think 95% of what he said was true, it's the other 5% that will get you). Or I may change the use year on one of our contracts (again SP said I couldn't but I think I can).

Thus, I haven't done this yet for the purpose of moving points forward, but I do think it will work. I have cancelled and rebooked reservations using rented points so I would have additional points in the next use year. (Example use year starts Apr 1, 2012, book a reservation for May, 2012 and cancel it, the points go into the Apr 1, 2012 to Mar 31, 2013 use year. Now you can use your cancelled points for an August reservation). I also could have borrowed points from my 2013-2014 use year, and they should work the same way.

There are problems (the salesperson agreed) with the computer system -- the points don't always allocate as they should. If they don't, try again. I have seen inconsistent behavior with the point allocation, I have gotten points in use years I don't have. Salesperson was aware of the issues.

As pointed out, this is working as described in the member directory. Perhaps it would be better to call in and have a rep do it. I say this because if you have tracking (and do keep track) the rep should be able to adjust your points to allocate to the proper use year. I have only had cancelled vs. regular points adjusted, so this is an assumption on my part that they would adjust your use years if they didn't allocate properly.

After cancelling a reservation, even though you can't see your points online on the Points Summary tab until the next day, you can see the correct point allocation by starting the booking process and getting to the point in the reservation where it shows how many points are needed and what you have available. Just don't book the reservation. Those numbers are real time (as opposed to the Points Summary being a reflection of your status at 7am ET and on week-ends sometimes off by 2 days).

Julie if you book a reservation in August, and then cancel it, then try to book a reservation in June you should see the points available for your original use year (hopefully no longer available) vs. try to book again in August and see the points available. Just be sure before you move them that you are not going to want to use them before July 1 because you will not be able to (can't borrow the cancelled points once you've moved them).

As far as the cancel/rebook, IMO, the sales team likes to present it as though there is no risk to losing your original reservation. And as many have stated, there is. I told our SP about people seeming to lose rooms more frequently and he was surprised. He did have some interesting explanations. One was a water main break at Bonnet Creek during spring break and thus a need to recover 50 rooms. The second was if you booked a Presidential Reserve room and are not Presidential Reserve and now they are under allocated, they might take the reserve room back.

When I voiced concern over the new system coming, he said the only changes he was aware of were possibly going to a 24 hour system, nothing about a wait list (because that would kill his cancel/rebook sales pitch). So I got nothing on the new system.
 

jjmanthei05

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I have two use years (Jan 1, July 1). I have 118K points that are due to expire on June 30. Is there any way to book/cancel to get them moved into the next use year (July 1)?

Thanks for the help.

Julie

Only way to extend them is in RCI or use them before July 1. You can't somehow combine them and make them move forward. the system is smart enough to know what use years your points come from and put it back to that use year.

Jason
 
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Sandi Bo

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Jason - You said smart and (Wyndham) system in the same sentence. :ignore:

The salesperson referred to the same page of the directory as RRLongwell (that points go back to the use year of the reservation).

I certainly want whatever I do to be on the up and up and not dependent on computer glitches.

Has anyone successfully moved their points (other than the salesperson (allegedly)).
 

scootr5

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Only way to extend them is in RCI or use them before July 1. You can't somehow combine them and make them move forward. the system is smart enough to know what use years your points come from and put it back to that use year.

Jason

I'm pretty certain that if you book a reservation now that uses all the points set to expire for check in prior to July 1st and then cancel it, your points will become cancelled points that expire 12/31/12. I'm going to be doing something similar on Sunday.
 

Sandi Bo

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I think the points going into a 12/31/2012 use year are a glitch in the system (unless you have another contract with that use year).

I saw this happen in my account (to my disadvantage because with my use year they should have expired 3/31/2013).

The system also does not behave consistently.
 

rrlongwell

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I'm pretty certain that if you book a reservation now that uses all the points set to expire for check in prior to July 1st and then cancel it, your points will become cancelled points that expire 12/31/12. I'm going to be doing something similar on Sunday.

I book and cancel all of the time, my points with very few exceptions, move forward. I have so many points, that except in a rare circumstance, it does not matter to me which use year they go into. But I do watch it. I find it an interesting behavior of the computer to watch.
 
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scootr5

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I think the points going into a 12/31/2012 use year are a glitch in the system (unless you have another contract with that use year).

I saw this happen in my account (to my disadvantage because with my use year they should have expired 3/31/2013).

The system also does not behave consistently.

I agree, but from what I've read but it's a very consistent "glitch" if you have multiple UY contracts - they will move to the latest expiring current UY. Since the OP is currently in a UY that ends 12/31/12, the points will most likely end up there.
 

jjmanthei05

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Jason - You said smart and (Wyndham) system in the same sentence. :ignore:

The salesperson referred to the same page of the directory as RRLongwell (that points go back to the use year of the reservation).

I certainly want whatever I do to be on the up and up and not dependent on computer glitches.

Has anyone successfully moved their points (other than the salesperson (allegedly)).

Correct the points will move to whatever use year the reservation is made in but this has to only do with using pooled and borrowed points. So if you use some future year points for a current reservation and cancel the points stay in the current use year. There is no way to use current use year points for a future year reservations unless you pool the points which has to be done before the beginning of the year for resale (and also silver VIP i think), within the first 6 months for VIP Gold and within the first 9 months VIP Plat. Since they expire end of June we would be outside of any of those ranges so its use it by June 30th, RCI or lose them. Those are the only choices.

Jason
 

jjmanthei05

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I book and cancel all of the time, my points with very few exceptions, move forward. I have so many points, that except in a rare circumstance, it does not matter to me which use year they go into. But I do watch it. I find it an interesting behavior of the computer to watch.

You could test it since you are plat (I believe), If you have any points that are in a non jan-dec use year this year. book something small, cancel and let us know where the points go. I would try but it would cost me a reservation transaction. It isn't suppose to work this way but it very well could. One of my reservations in the past I have a Oct use year and booked a reservation in Oct 2011 with my 2011-2012 points. When I canceled it they put it back into my Jan -dec use year expiring on Dec 2011 giving me only 3 months use out of the points. I talked with the VC's and they fix it. Maybe if it was after the first of the year it would work extending them. I'm not sure.

Jason
 

rrlongwell

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... There is no way to use current use year points for a future year reservations unless you pool the points which has to be done before the beginning of the year for resale (and also silver VIP i think), within the first 6 months for VIP Gold and within the first 9 months VIP Plat. Since they expire end of June we would be outside of any of those ranges so its use it by June 30th, RCI or lose them. Those are the only choices.

Jason

For anyone that is interested give a try and find out if it works for you. I am VIP Platium, I do not think this is a feature of this program, however, it could be.
 
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