Open Season Rates no longer a good deal!!

[bogey21]

The original Open Season system worked fine for almost 20 years; why do they need to jack up the rates even higher now than they have over the past few years? My feeling is greed.

Agree. It doesn't matter who it is, RCI, Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, etc. At some point in time someone sees increased profitability by taking away or otherwise reducing the desirability of something originally offered to induce us to buy. Either sell (as I did) or learn to live with it.

George

 

[Tamaradarann]

Reasons they are selectively raising Open Season Rates

They did not lose any money on the $60-80-100 rates since they paid nothing for that inventory. Raising the rates even further now says greed to me. If not, open up the books and give us an explanation.

George posted the above comment and it got me thinking about why they selectively raised the open season rates. These thoughts came to mind:

More Income: Hawaii is a very sought after location. The demand is so great that they can demand higher open season rate and still sell rooms. If they don't sell the rooms to owner/members on Open Season they can sell them on Hilton.com for a very good price.

Fill Rooms at Other Locations: There is a lot of Inventory being unreserved in Las Vegas and Orlando. Having an Open Season rate disparity between Hawaii; and Las Vegas and Orlando may get owner/members to purchase open season nights at the Las Vegas and Orlando locations because they have such low open season rates rather than Hawaii with high open season rates. There are so many timeshares and hotels in Las Vegas and Orlando with vacancies that they can't raise open season rates there and be sure that they will sell the nights on Hilton.com.

There may be other reasons that I didn't think of, however, let us not lose sight that the open season inventory that is created from inventory that was not reserved using points during the Club Reservation Period is owner/members inventory. The Open Season rates for that inventory should not be driven by the general public market, but should be a nice benefit for us.

 

[jestme]

From a business standpoint, I still can't figure this out. Open Season rooms in Hawaii (where they want to raise the rates the most), is hard to come by, and the increase in revenue they could generate doing this is minimal in the larger picture. The loss in sales pitch potential, and the almost complete elimination of the benefit to 150,000 current members makes no sense.
It cannot generate much additional revenue, as there are limited rooms available. This small additional revenue comes at a major expense of customer loyalty or satisfaction. If only 100 customers didn't upgrade or decided to spend less at the resort while they were there, those additional gains would be lost.

 

[Talent312]

From a business standpoint, I still can't figure this out... [T]he almost complete elimination of the benefit to 150,000 current members makes no sense.

And yet... I am reminded of Aesop's fable of the goose with the golden eggs:

There was once a man who had a marvelous goose that laid golden eggs. Each and every day, without fail, the goose laid an egg that was made of solid gold. You would think the owner of the goose would consider himself very lucky, but one golden egg each day was not enough to satisfy the man. He wanted to have even more gold without waiting for the eggs!

"If the goose is able to lay these golden eggs," he said, "then the inside of the goose is probably filled with gold. I will cut open the goose and get all the gold at once!" The greedy man then grabbed an axe and cut the goose in half. Much to his surprise, the goose was just like any other goose inside; there was no gold.
.

 

[USDave]

[QUOTE this was on the other thread.

Here are the 2015 rates:

Note the price range now. There is no explanation on how the ranges will be used.

Sorry had meant to add this to other thread as a reminder

 

[Tamaradarann]

I Agree and Can't Figure it out either

From a business standpoint, I still can't figure this out. Open Season rooms in Hawaii (where they want to raise the rates the most), is hard to come by, and the increase in revenue they could generate doing this is minimal in the larger picture. The loss in sales pitch potential, and the almost complete elimination of the benefit to 150,000 current members makes no sense.
It cannot generate much additional revenue, as there are limited rooms available. This small additional revenue comes at a major expense of customer loyalty or satisfaction. If only 100 customers didn't upgrade or decided to spend less at the resort while they were there, those additional gains would be lost.

I agree and can't figure it out either. I sent a note to HGVC about the negative effect on sales. However, let me offer this additional thought. They started with raising the Open Season Rates in Hawaii where there was a chance that members would rent them at the higher rate but also a good chance that they could rent them on Hilton.com at an even higher rate since members weren't renting them. The overall plan was to raise the open season rates at all the resorts during school brakes and other high occupancy periods when there was a good chance that they could rent the availability at the higher rates on Open Season and on Hilton.com. Then owner/members would start reserving more Open Season availability in all resorts during the periods when the open season rates were low, approximately a 50% discount, so they would be able to fill more rooms during non-peak times when there is a lot of availability.

 

[MelanieB]

HGVC is currently renting out the rooms to members at a loss, and you are frustrated that they are not willing to continue to absorb those loses.

I've read this entire thread, and I agree with much of what you have to say. But this is where things break down a bit for me.

It's entirely possible that HGVC has been renting their inventory at a loss. Or maybe not. We don't know, because we can't see their books. But even if they are, you cannot possibly believe that the overall business has been operating at a loss. If they have been losing money on rentals, then they must have been making that up in some other part of their business, presumably either from member fees or retail sales. I haven't seen an offer to reduce fees in combination with the increased Open Season rates, and I rather think pigs will fly before that happens.

Also, if HGVC truly is losing money on these units, why not just say so? "Our excess inventory is operating at a loss based on current Open Season rates. We must address this in order to keep member fees as low as possible." Or some other such drivel. What they actually said was this (bolding mine):

Hilton Grand Vacations: We thank you for your communication, and trust that the following update serves to bring further clarity to this topic:

As the vacation ownership inventory at our properties reaches a sold out status, the Open Season availability for units respectively diminishes. Open Season Rental rates remain flexible based on location, season, day of the week and demand. Beginning in 2015, some nightly rates remain similar to those of the previous year, and some increased rates are based on the location, season or day of the week that are historically in higher demand by our Club Members.

The intention of this update was to offer these accommodations during the 30 day booking window at a percentage-off of what can be found on Hilton.com, which primarily offers the inventory that HGV Owners actually give back to the Club in exchange for other benefits or Partner Perks such as cruises, RV rentals, houseboats, etc. Previous rates were not reflective of the specific marketplace: for example, a 1-bedroom in Orlando does not equate to the same as a 1-bedroom in Honolulu. These recent updates to the Open Season rates chart remedy such discrepancies.

We will continue to monitor the markets in which we operate HGV resorts, and offer seasonally adjusted Open Season rates in an effort to provide the most desirable offers to our Owners. While we understand this recent change may initially be frustrating, we apologize that our notification did not reach you before the Open Season window opened for January 1.

In other words: "We're raising rates because we can. The market will bear it, therefore we will do it." I think that this is the root of a great deal of the anger and frustration from owners. Owners feel, rightly or wrongly, that their investment and commitment to the system entitles them to the best Open Season rates that the corporation can reasonably afford. With this change, the corporation is basically saying "too bad for you; we don't have to if we don't want to, and we don't want to anymore".

 

[Tamaradarann]

Can't buy that Open Seasons rentals are at a loss

I've read this entire thread, and I agree with much of what you have to say. But this is where things break down a bit for me.

It's entirely possible that HGVC has been renting their inventory at a loss. Or maybe not. We don't know, because we can't see their books. But even if they are, you cannot possibly believe that the overall business has been operating at a loss. If they have been losing money on rentals, then they must have been making that up in some other part of their business, presumably either from member fees or retail sales. I haven't seen an offer to reduce fees in combination with the increased Open Season rates, and I rather think pigs will fly before that happens.

Also, if HGVC truly is losing money on these units, why not just say so? "Our excess inventory is operating at a loss based on current Open Season rates. We must address this in order to keep member fees as low as possible." Or some other such drivel. What they actually said was this (bolding mine):



In other words: "We're raising rates because we can. The market will bear it, therefore we will do it." I think that this is the root of a great deal of the anger and frustration from owners. Owners feel, rightly or wrongly, that their investment and commitment to the system entitles them to the best Open Season rates that the corporation can reasonably afford. With this change, the corporation is basically saying "too bad for you; we don't have to if we don't want to, and we don't want to anymore".

I can't buy the position that HGVC has been renting out Open Season availability at a loss. All the inventory that HGVC obtains is either from:

the availability that owners members didn't reserve using points during the Club Reservation Period for no cost, which my study of the January period for the Hilton Hawaiian Village and HGVC South Beach revealed was the case
or
from owner/members depositing their points into Hilton Honors or for Club Perks which we all know gets owner/members very low value for their deposit so it must be a very low cost method for HGVC obtaining Open Season Availability.

 

[nlehvac]

The sad part is we can't effectively "boycott." If we don't take something at the inflated OS rates, the poor management has to sell them full price to non-members.

 

[bastroum]

HGVC has not broken any contractual obligations. When we purchase a timeshare we enter into a legal binding contract with HGVC. As far as I see they have not broken any contractual obligations, based on the contract I signed. Other than contacting them and letting them know how you feel, your only recourse is to not use the benefit. If they don't want you staying at Marriott, Westin or Hyatt properties (and allowing those companies to pitch you their product) they'll price their product to get you to come back.

 

[USDave]

Hi Bastroum,

So you believe HGVC haven't broken any contractual obligations. I am actually not convinced on that point either way though I believe they have broken our trust as members to not make unreasonable decisions without justification.

They have failed to give a open, honest snd transparent explanation. They did not write to members to notify them of the change or publish this online.

This is a Heist whatever way it is sliced. I accuse HGVC of deliberately seeking to hide information to its members.

The Lone Ranger wore a mask. HGVC is even more brazen.

 

[bastroum]

Hi Bastroum,

So you believe HGVC haven't broken any contractual obligations. I am actually not convinced on that point either way though I believe they have broken our trust as members to not make unreasonable decisions without justification.

They have failed to give a open, honest snd transparent explanation. They did not write to members to notify them of the change or publish this online.

This is a Heist whatever way it is sliced. I accuse HGVC of deliberately seeking to hide information to its members.

The Lone Ranger wore a mask. HGVC is even more brazen.

I agree.

However, it's been my experience large companies will always act this way. I don't believe they care about giving you an open, honest and transparent explanation if it's not in their best interest. As far as trust goes, I believe you can trust that they will fulfill their contractual obligations. Many people have learned the hard way, when purchasing their timeshare, that unless it's in writing it was never promised.

 

[USDave]

I hear you!

I do totally agree.

I work at a senior level in a multinational company so I see that first hand. So they will try to get away with it but I am not being naive in believing in that can change.

I really believe it can if we apply enough pressure to HGVC snd it starts to get a groundswell of opinion and momentum which it has - than there is a distinct chance it will.

Come on join the journey we can change it or give a damn good go!

 

[chriskre]

Come on join the journey we can change it or give a damn good go!

Some fights have already been fought in the TS world and it never ends well for owners.
The best way to fight things is to look out for your own interests and if that just happens
to be that I never use OS in Orlando again and have to finally use those II AC's then that is what I will do.

Marriott, Wyndham, DVC, Starwood and Bluegreen have just as nice digs and actually costs me less than using OS.
It was easier to use OS, but it wasn't cheaper. So I gotta plan a little more. Not a big deal.

Being an educated TUG member has it's privileges.

 

[jestme]

Marriott, Wyndham, DVC, Starwood and Bluegreen have just as nice digs and actually costs me less than using OS.

I am at a Weston in Maui right now. Normally, I would be at the HHV for these 8 days, but when this latest Open Season nonsense started, I booked something other than HGVC privately. Westin is getting my food and beverage money as well, AND I get SPG points, where I don't get HHonors points for the same thing at HGVC stays. I will be using my home week next week at the HHV, but not spending a dime at the shops, restaurants or bars there. I may go to an owners update as well. Apparently, you HAVE to be there 90 minutes. You cannot get out early. They may regret that rule with a very boisterous complainer...
BTW, you are right, they do have nice digs here. I drove over to where the supposed new HGVC will be on Maui someday. It's an abandoned resort / overgrown field, on the wrong side of the road to get to the ocean, and it is really a bay, not open ocean. Maybe someone has a dream, but I can't see it.

 

[nlehvac]

I am at a Weston in Maui right now. Normally, I would be at the HHV for these 8 days, but when this latest Open Season nonsense started, I booked something other than HGVC privately. Westin is getting my food and beverage money as well, AND I get SPG points, where I don't get HHonors points for the same thing at HGVC stays. .

If possible, maybe this should be posted at the Facebook site?

 

[GeorgeJ.]

Some fights have already been fought in the TS world and it never ends well for owners.
The best way to fight things is to look out for your own interests and if that just happens
to be that I never use OS in Orlando again and have to finally use those II AC's then that is what I will do.

Marriott, Wyndham, DVC, Starwood and Bluegreen have just as nice digs and actually costs me less than using OS.
It was easier to use OS, but it wasn't cheaper. So I gotta plan a little more. Not a big deal.

Being an educated TUG member has it's privileges.

One fight that ended well for timeshare owners was the RCI lawsuit. Rather than just one trade for our RCI property, I now get as many as 5 exchanges per year from just one property since it typically gets 40+ points when I deposit a week. And they kind of opened the books to RCI members since we don't have to guess now how much a week is worth. The RCI class-action suit didn't bring $$ to the members, but I think it was a win for the members..

 

[JenMuse]

. . . Apparently, you HAVE to be there 90 minutes. You cannot get out early. They may regret that rule with a very boisterous complainer...

Not necessarily. I went to one in March at HHV and was in and out in less than 30 minutes. Fairly painless once I said no a bunch of times and said the magic words re-sale and TUG.

Granted I didn't know to complain about these new OS rates....grrrr.

 

[Intheknow]

Looks like HGV listened to us! Great News found on HGV Facebook Page!

2015 promises to be a great year to be in the Club, with a world of vacation possibilities awaiting discovery! Visit ClubTraveler.com for the latest Club news, Member memories and travel inspirations. Look for announcements of new resorts and programs on the horizon, and enjoy all your favorite destinations and perks too (notably, the rates for the popular last-minute Open Season reservation privilege for Club Members will remain unchanged for the rest of 2015!). Happy Vacationing to All!

 

[nlehvac]

Well, whaddaya know!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wonder how much they'll include us in discussions about 2016 !

 

[USDave]

Great news

Oh yeah! oh yeah!
Looks like it worked. Well done to HGVC for listening. Thank you Barbie Rinks for showing that you care about member opinion. Lots of organisation would try to continue to get away with it.

But well done to everyone who spoke up and did not sit in the stand in the stands it is down to you that they reversed the decision.

Tamaradarann deserves credit for flagging this issue and I was was determined to get something done about it rather than just moaning. So we did it. We gave this a sense of purpose and MADE it happen.

WE TOOK ACTION WE STOOD TOGETHER AND WE WERE HEARD!

You were part of a movement that worked and achieved its goal. There were a few doubters along the way saying "if you aren't happy sell up or big companies will steam roll you so don't bother trying" We tried and succeeded! So don't let it be said it can't be done with a combined will, most things are achievable.

I know one contributor said that Timeshare owners very rarely get successes against the mighty organisations but Hilton listened so we can add this to the list.

 

[nlehvac]

Yes ... those who wrote Barbie (and maybe the rest of us who only indicated displeasure via phone?) should send an email of "thanks for listening to us." So please repost her addy so we don't have to hunt.

Would it be reasonable to suggest they perhaps open a discussion here? Explain where the availability REALly comes from; if (and then how) higher OS rates would help hold down MFs [as in they could chip in some %age directly to the resorts]; was there a reason other than filling investor pockets for the now dead system?; a standard X% off lowest rack rate more reasonable (assuming the % off is)?, and the like. Just why higher demand spots/times should lead to higher rates (rather than the current first-come-first-serve and procrastinators lose which fills all those spots already - higher prices certainly wouldn't fill them more!).

 

[Tamaradarann]

Very Pleased with this decision but What in 2016?

I am very pleased with this decision and sent a note to Barbara Rinks about it. However, I also showed my concern about what the rates will be in 2016. I still remain firm that availability that is generated from inventory that was not reserved during Club Season should remain available to owner/members at the current lower rates. It is HGVC timeshare owners inventory that should be rented to HGVC timeshare owners at the lowest rate possible, not to generate additional income for Hilton.

 

[sluggohill]

I guess that demonstrates the power of collective action using social media - I confess to being pessimistic about whether they would listen. Well done to all who posted, tweeted and emailed.

 

[dontstop56]

Can you book Open season for Friends?

Can you make a Open season Reservation for a friend or Non HGVC Member?