Open Letter to Marriott

[potchak]

Wow, Shorty! Your husband has done a fabulous job! Thank you so much for posting this.

For one thing, it's so infrequent that we see on TUG the point of view of the direct purchaser being championed. For another, more personal, what your husband put into words has been floating around in my brain for a few days, but it wasn't coherent or developed. NOW I understand what I've been thinking!

Is it okay for me to adopt the thoughts when I'm speaking with my sales rep to start the enrollment process? I wouldn't quote him word-for-word or ever put his words into writing without his permission, anyway, but I'd like him to know that I'll be repeating his sentiment that it is still possible for them to distinguish their direct purchasers through bonus incentives.

Nice job, I am impressed.

Absolutely Susan. I am glad you liked the letter. He is in marketing so words are his thing! I am always amazed at how much better at it he is than I!!!

 

[potchak]

I have been composing a letter to Marriott regarding my concerns about the new system. I am very disappointed that external purchasers will now be able to trade their unit for rewards points just by enrolling in the new points program and paying a maximum of $1,995. Whether or not you believe the rewards points are a good value or not, it was one of the biggest selling points that Marriott sales focused on to convince potential purchasers that buying directly from Marriott was far more beneficial than purchasing externally.

Is there a place where I can find contact information (names and addresses) that I can use to route my letter appropriately? I'm fine posting an open letter once I've finished it, but I would also like to target specific people at corporate. Thanks.

I believe my husband found it on the website under Customer Advocacy. I think it was customer dot advocacy at vacationclub dot com

Not sure if this is the right place or not.

 

[GregT]

All,

I've forwarded the link to this message to the senior management team of the Exchange Company, and to Lee Cunningham, who sent the email inviting some people (I've not gotten mine) to learn about the points program. However, my email is likely sitting in Spam filters.

I'd still like to see this thread as much as possible reflect owner letters directly to Marriott -- I can't find a direct way to get anyone to answer the skimming question, other than Breakage, which I consider an excuse. Thank you all for your comments and perspective.

All the best,

Greg

Sent to:

lee.cunningham@vacationclub.com
stephen.weisz@vacationclub.com;
joseph.bramuchi@vacationclub.com;
michael.cullen@vacationclub.com;
joel.eisemann@vacationclub.com

 

[m61376]

Thanks for the list of addresses!

Cullen and Eisemann's already got bounced back - are you sure the e-mails were posted correctly?

 

[tropical1]

My DH's letter to Marriott:

Dear Customer Advocacy:

Like everyone, I have had poor service or bad product experiences before but I have never written a company about my poor experience until now. I must say that I'm very concerned about the way my experience with Marriott Vacation club has been going. My wife and I purchased an every other year Waiohai and opposite year Timber Lodge from Marriott in 2006. We also purchased a Manor Club from Marriott in 2007 and a second Manor Club resale in 2007. We purchased from Marriott because we were talked into the value of the Marriott awards program as the major value over purchasing for much less in the resale market. Additionally, we were told about Marriott's use of right of first refusal and how it would keep the value of our vacation investment high.

We went ahead and invested about $64,000 in Marriott Vacation club including one resale property for about $9K and the rest direct purchases from Marriott. In the very short 3 years our experience has really been poor in terms of value. We love our properties and have stayed in other Marriott's in NJ and Aruba and have always found them to be fantastic. The concern is the investment we made with Marriott vs others that purchased resale. When we purchased, resale was running at about 30% to 40% less. Since then, it looks like this gap has increased to more than 50% and it appears that many resales are simply passing ROFR at very low prices. We still had the benefit that our units also qualify for the Marriott rewards program and we have used that a few times taking advantage of the points to go on a cruise, etc.

Now we have the new points system introduced. For only $1,995 anyone that purchase resale can now trade their unit into the Marriott rewards program. This one benefit we had for paying 30%+ premium over purchasing resale (50%+ if you just purchased resale). So our additional purchase cost of about $16,500 ($64,000 - $9,000 (resale property)=$55,000 *30% = $16,500) we could have received the same benefit by signing up for the point system for only $1,995.

I'm very disappointed in Marriott for pushing this advantage in sales for years just to allow everyone else have that advantage we paid a lot of money for, for so little. I would have thought that a company like Marriott would have done more to protect the loyalty of their customers. In three short years I have seen time and again the let down by Marriott to keep our loyalty.
1. Reduced Marriott Rewards Points program for airfare and hotels
2. Seems to have suspended to diminished ROFR causing the delta between our purchase price and resale to increase
3. Started a points system that does not provide equal point value between unit traded in verses unit reserved by points
4. Little barrier of entry for non-Marriott direct purchasers to get into Marriott Rewards program for their units

The properties are fantastic but the program has continued to diminish in value at an alarming rate. I would ask that you please do a better job at making our Marriott Vacation Club experience a success not just at the resort but also in the way the program is administered. Simple ideas would be to give owners that bought directly from Marriott a 30% increase in point allotments each year to match the additional initial purchase they paid, or to grant one time bonuses of points and give them a higher priority for reserving units. Some value more than pay us $1,995 and now everyone is equal in the eyes of Marriott.

I look forward to hearing your ideas on value and how our loyalty to Marriott has been rewarded. Perhaps I'm missing something and we are not taking full advantage of what we purchased. Thank you.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXX

Great letter! You articulated these points so well!

 

[DanCali]

Come on! How many times did you vote and how many times did it really change anything? Marriott was and always will be in charge. We need them more than they need us and that's just being realistic about the situation.

Oh ok... then I am sure they won't mind removing that paragraph from your enrollment documents...

It's obviously important enough to THEM.

Their lawyers could have said "We control things anyway. No need to include this in the enrollment documents..." - but guess what... it's important enough to Marriot to include this after all.

 

[MikeZ]

Oh ok... then I am sure they won't mind removing that paragraph from your enrollment documents...

It's obviously important enough to THEM.

That's what concerns me, Dan. Why would it be so important to take away someone's voting rights? I don't like that at all!

 

[nygiants11991]

I have not received anything from anyone about the new system. I assumed Marriott would have sent something to every owner, but you know what they say about assuming.....
Thank you to TUGGERS for all the information

 

[GregT]

Thanks for the list of addresses!

Cullen and Eisemann's already got bounced back - are you sure the e-mails were posted correctly?

Sorry, I was guessing on the emails based upon their name and the email format for Vacation Club

(ie firstname.lastname@vacationclub.com)

I've not gotten bounce backs so hopefully something is going through.

Thanks again,

Greg

 

[PerryM]

Despite the high-tech lynching I'm enrolling our Gold Summit Watch!

As someone who's been a target of a TUG high-tech lynching I feel for Marriott - level headed folks get caught up in the hysteria.

I feel partially responsible since I spent 2 months cooking up every backstabbing, underhanded, and despicable tactic Marriott could foist upon us with their new system.

I am happy to report that Marriott ignored my comments and gave us a VERY owner friendly Point exchange system. If you bought resale, like I did, your only decision should be "do I enroll before lunch or after lunch?". I'm serious.

I just spent 40 hours putting together a 40 slide PowerPoint presentation which I am presenting tonight, Thursday June 24, 2010 at 8 PM CDT, at my Webinar. I've spent 10+ hours on the phone with the Marriott folks, getting wrong answers, bad answers, and many "let me know when you find out" answers.

I still have spots open and the Webinar is FREE and I won't be selling you anything nor hawking your eMail address.

If you want a 1 hour, top to bottom, analysis of the new Marriott Point system just send an eMail to PerryM@Yahoo.com with the subject Marriott Webinar and I'll enroll you and the Webinar will contact you and tell you how Webinars work.

So this is my way of setting the record straight - sadly some here would rather spend time with a lynch mob - I've now atoned for my sins and its up to you. I'm spending the rest of the day practicing so I won't be responding to this thread for a while.

 

[dioxide45]

As someone who's been a target of a TUG high-tech lynching I feel for Marriott - level headed folks get caught up in the hysteria.

I feel partially responsible since I spent 2 months cooking up every backstabbing, underhanded, and despicable tactic Marriott could foist upon us with their new system.

I am happy to report that Marriott ignored my comments and gave us a VERY owner friendly Point exchange system. If you bought resale, like I did, your only decision should be "do I enroll before lunch or after lunch?". I'm serious.

I just spent 40 hours putting together a 40 slide PowerPoint presentation which I am presenting tonight, Thursday June 24, 2010 at 8 PM CDT, at my Webinar. I've spent 10+ hours on the phone with the Marriott folks, getting wrong answers, bad answers, and many "let me know when you find out" answers.

I still have spots open and the Webinar is FREE and I won't be selling you anything nor hawking your eMail address.

If you want a 1 hour, top to bottom, analysis of the new Marriott Point system just send an eMail to PerryM@Yahoo.com with the subject Marriott Webinar and I'll enroll you and the Webinar will contact you and tell you how Webinars work.

So this is my way of setting the record straight - sadly some here would rather spend time with a lynch mob - I've now atoned for my sins and its up to you. I'm spending the rest of the day practicing so I won't be responding to this thread for a while.

Okay... Who is the wise guy that hijacked Perry's TugBBS account???

 

[GregT]

Okay... Who is the wise guy that hijacked Perry's TugBBS account???

That is DAMN funny. I'm here waiting for the Webinar to start..........

Best to all,

Greg

 

[Pit]

Okay... Who is the wise guy that hijacked Perry's TugBBS account???

Follow the money. :ignore:

 

[hipslo]

this webinar thing is just too much......

 

[billymach4]

Just saw this.

I hope I made it in time. Just sent the email.

 

[Y-ASK]

For one thing, it's so infrequent that we see on TUG the point of view of the direct purchaser being championed. For another, more personal, what your husband put into words has been floating around in my brain for a few days, but it wasn't coherent or developed. NOW I understand what I've been thinking!

Ya know what I've been thinking? I've been thinking that who do all you development purchasers think is footing a very heafty part of the bill by paying their maintenance fees on time? Sure let's get rid of all those resale owners and their money. What scum bags those guys are

The bottom line is that your maintenance fees are kept low because the resale owner purchased and pays their fair share of the fees and if they didn't either your bill is going to be really high or your resorts are going to look like doggie poop...

But that's ok let's keep trying to get Marriott to stick it to the resale owners. Real smart...

Y-ASK

 

[SueDonJ]

Ya know what I've been thinking? I've been thinking that who do all you development purchasers think is footing a very heafty part of the bill by paying their maintenance fees on time? Sure let's get rid of all those resale owners and their money. What scum bags those guys are

The bottom line is that your maintenance fees are kept low because the resale owner purchased and pays their fair share of the fees and if they didn't either your bill is going to be really high or your resorts are going to look like doggie poop...

But that's ok let's keep trying to get Marriott to stick it to the resale owners. Real smart...

Y-ASK

I think you misunderstand. I don't have a problem with resale owners. Timeshares have inherent devaluation in them (and now it looks like Marriott's added to that devaluation for all of us) and it makes sense to me that folks search out bargains whenever they're buying something. And you're right, every owner who pays the m/f helps every other owner who's doing the same thing. Nope, no problem with you at all.

My problem is with Marriott that they've removed the one enticement that was used by them for years to encourage direct purchasers. And as far as TUG, you can't deny that proponents of Marriott-direct purchases are few and far between here. I like to see it on the rare occasion, not as an insult to anyone else, but as a camaraderie thing. I apologize if you were insulted by my comments - honestly, no insult at all was intended.

 

[Y-ASK]

Yeah but that's like saying that everyone who buys a new home in a new neighborhood gets access to the community pool built by the developer but if some owner got in over his head and the real estate market tanks and he has to short sell or has the property foreclosed on and the developer makes it so that the next owner has no rights to the pool but still has to pay the same HOA fees like everyone else, how fair is that? And don't you think the value of your property is going to reflect that? Of course no community would ever treat a new resale owner like that. They would welcome the new owner with open arms and hope their property values don't drop any further. No open arms from some developer purchased timeshare owners. If they really like the resort they frequent they should be thankful that many resale owners like it too and are happy to pay their maintenance fees.

They should have never removed the enticement to begin with... If I need to sell my property I would want the new owner to have all the same rights as I would so my value would be maintained, even if the value is lower than what I paid for it. By the way, DVC treats both internal and external owners exactly the same, why can't Marriott? Could it be because of short sighted letters like this...

Y-ASK

Must be getting tired tonight because after re-reading this I guess I'm getting grumpy. I guess it's just the way I took the words...

 

[SueDonJ]

Yeah but that's like saying that everyone who buys a new home in a new neighborhood gets access to the community pool built by the developer but if some owner got in over his head and the real estate market tanks and he has to short sell or has the property foreclosed on and the developer makes it so that the new owner has no rights to pool but still has to pay the same HOA fees like everyone else, how fair is that? And don't you think the value of property is going to reflect that? Of course no community would ever treat a new owner like that. They would welcome the new owner and hope their property values don't drop any further. Not with some of these timeshare owners. If they really like the resort they frequent they should be thankful that many resales like it too and are happy to pay their maintenance fees.

They should have never removed the enticement to begin with...

Y-ASK

Well, I hope you believe me that I don't care if the person lounging next to me at the pool bought resale or direct - hopefully we're all there happy to enjoy life and willing to pay our m/f fees to keep making it happen.

I don't mind that there were MRP-exchange options to distinguish direct from resales. What everybody said here about the price differential made sense, that in some cases developer-direct buyers were paying way more than necessary for the option. But it was a known, tangible, clearly-stated difference that Marriott relied upon for enticement.

Now they've removed it and I'm certain there's something in the docs for the new system that forced them to remove it. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and it certainly hasn't had an impact on my choice to enroll, it's just one little thing that bothers me. If Marriott can't find a way to make some other differential without hurting any owners then I'm still satisfied, but if they can then I'll welcome it.

 

[dioxide45]

Now they've removed it and I'm certain there's something in the docs for the new system that forced them to remove it. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and it certainly hasn't had an impact on my choice to enroll, it's just one little thing that bothers me. If Marriott can't find a way to make some other differential without hurting any owners then I'm still satisfied, but if they can then I'll welcome it.

I think Marriott removed it because it gives them access to that inventory. It is just another option that an owner can use to turn inventory to Marriott's control. Marriott needs as much inventory to feed the new points system. They probably figured that the trade for points option was something it was willing to give up to external owners.

 

[Y-ASK]

If Marriott can't find a way to make some other differential without hurting any owners then I'm still satisfied, but if they can then I'll welcome it.

Even at the cost of your developer purchased resale property value? Do you really want to deny access to the community pool for a potential buyer of your property? If the product is really that great then resales will be far and few between...


Y-ASK

 

[SueDonJ]

Even at the cost of your developer purchased resale property value? Do you really want to deny access to the community pool for a potential buyer of your property? If the product is really that great then resales will be far and few between...


Y-ASK

This new system has already devalued my developer-direct purchase because no further resales of deeded weeks are eligible to be enrolled in Points, and the Enrolled Points status will not transfer upon resale. I think that's a pretty substantial devaluation and can't imagine how some small token will devalue it further. I'm not talking about a usage option that will give direct buyers a priority or advantage over resale within the Enrolled Points system. Maybe something like the excess inventory being offered to direct buyers a week before resale? You know, like that Gift of Time inventory. Something like that ...

 

[SueDonJ]

I think Marriott removed it because it gives them access to that inventory. It is just another option that an owner can use to turn inventory to Marriott's control. Marriott needs as much inventory to feed the new points system. They probably figured that the trade for points option was something it was willing to give up to external owners.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Y-ASK]

This new system has already devalued my developer-direct purchase because no further resales of deeded weeks are eligible to be enrolled in Points, and the Enrolled Points status will not transfer upon resale.

Yep! I totally agree with you on that and it was probably letters like the "well written" one that probably caused it to happen. But the way I read the documents is if the resort is "enrolled" then the buyer has the right to pay a $2,000 initation fee plus another $200 per interest fee to keep those properties within the points system. It's the weeks that never get enrolled that are going to have a problem. Unfortunately it's the seller that might have to take their share of the initation fee via lower resale value.

Y-ASK

 

[potchak]

Y-ask,
We never mention MF's in the letter at all, again, like SueDon we have no issue whatsoever with resale owners in fact we have a resale week as well as our 2 developer weeks. The issue that we have is that we were sold a bill of sale that is no longer available. The only reason that we purchased developer instead of resale was for the option of MRP's and now that option is available to every resale that enrolls. The premium that we paid for developer weeks for this is no longer the value we paid for it. That was the point we tried to make, not trying to bash resale owners. Since this is case you have definitely taken the purpose of this letter out of context.