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Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [MERGED]

VacationForever

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You were one of many offered that hybrid package with a waived enrollment fee; it's been available for a few years now and is noted on the MVC Resales Operations site. Not sure why it would have been rescinded after being offered?

The TUGger I'm thinking of was offered by a sales rep at one of the Hawaii resorts, the chance to enroll a post-6/20/10 external resale Week with the purchase of Trust Points. It went almost all the way through the process with papers drawn up and signed before corporate stepped in after a few days and rescinded the offer based on the Week being ineligible.

What was different was that instead of matching points, I was offered to buy a minimum of 1000 DC points to enroll both my Marriott purchased resale weeks. It happened in March this year. Corporate said no as I had to buy matching points, which I knew.
 

SueDonJ

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It wasn't the waived enrollment fee of the mcvi brokered resale weeks. It was the 1000 points purchase rather than the purchase of the equivalent number of DC points to enroll two weeks.

What was different was that instead of matching points, I was offered to buy a minimum of 1000 DC points to enroll both my Marriott purchased resale weeks. It happened in March this year. Corporate said no as I had to buy matching points, which I knew.

Doh! Now I see its uniqueness! Thanks for the correction. :eek:
 

kds4

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I don't see any changes to the eligibility rules on my-vacationclub.com. If you have post-6/20/10 external resales and click through the "Enroll Now" process at this link (after signing in,) are they now showing as eligible for enrollment?

I logged in and tried it for my unenrolled week and got the 'ineligible' message. Will need clarification (if GregT seeks it) regarding the source/scope of the offer he received. :bawl:
 

kds4

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We currently are a owner of a 3 Bedroom EOY Owner of Grand Vista we purchased from the reseller market a few years ago ..so we are not entitled to any type of Point Exchange.

We returned to Myrtle Beach this year on a Encore Package ($1349 - 75K Pts - 5N6D)

They tried to sell us on buying a NEW TS Points Package. Here the "facts" that we heard: (Notice my Skepticism)

[2500PTS*12.66 = $31,650] or [1500PTS*??=$26K]
[.475Maintance=$1187]
[Club Dues $175.]

1) Once you have Points - you're pretty much guaranteed to get what you want, when you want. "Myrtle Beach no problem"
2) The Marriott Points we have now "you can take some great Vacation packages ..including Airlines - no problem"
3) There is "so much Flexibility with points including 1/2 weeks"

I backed off my letting them know that we have a hard enough time getting what we want with a 3 Bedroom and we have so much more Flexibility now with our Lock-off -

I also mentioned that Marriott will one day offer to exchange our TS for points --- let me know when that happens.

Well a week later - I receive this [I'm sure the Marriott Policy didn't change - they just manipulated the numbers]

"We had a meeting and we are going to allow owners who bought on the secondary market to enroll their weeks for a limited time! "
"The cost is $26,900 ... Your week is going to be valued at 3725! So you will have a total of 6225 points one year and the next 2500 which is avg 4850 per yr!! ...also qualifys you for VIP Select ...."

Are you Skepticial as I am ?? Thoughts ? Where's the beef ?

Hmmm. That's the same basic offer at 2 different MVCI properties. The plot thickens. :ponder:
 

SueDonJ

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... 1) Once you have Points - you're pretty much guaranteed to get what you want, when you want. "Myrtle Beach no problem"
2) The Marriott Points we have now "you can take some great Vacation packages ..including Airlines - no problem"
3) There is "so much Flexibility with points including 1/2 weeks" ...

Are you Skepticial as I am ?? Thoughts ? Where's the beef ?

The beef is in the DC Trust Points purchase that comes with this offer. It might sound ridiculous to point out the obvious but it's important to recognize that the offer is contingent on a purchase that requires an ongoing ownership commitment, not just a higher enrollment fee.

I love the Points product for its usage flexibility, and will definitely consider buying them if ever we want/need more timeshares. But there's no way that ANY availability can be guaranteed regardless of whether you're talking Weeks or Points (except for the very few fixed Weeks in the system.) Run the numbers to see if it works for you but don't let the sales reps' claim of, "you're pretty much guaranteed to get what you want, when you want" cloud your judgment. That's simply not a claim that can be substantiated.
 

GregT

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All,

I suspect that we will see emails rolling out in the coming days to all owners, offering this enrollment opportunity. I don't think it's an enrollment option through the website, but happens in conjunction with the direct purchase of Trust Points.

I agree with the logic of what you paying per point depends on how you use the underlying week that you are enrolling. For me, if I pay $35K and enroll the two 3BRs that I recently bought, then my price per point is about $1.46 per point (20,450 points from the legacy weeks plus 3,500 new points for ~$35K). Sounds good at first blush.

However.....I can't anticipate any possibility whereby I would redeem those weeks for points -- I'd be better off renting them for cash. So I really just bought 3,500 points for $35K, or $10/points. That's not compelling when I can currently rent points in abundance.

Ah...renting. I think renting points skews our view of this offer. The fact that we can rent points easily makes it easier to discount this offer from Marriott. But what if renting became restricted (like Disney -- where you are now restricted to only one in/out transfer). This could happen someday in Marriott land, and that should be considered if someone is on the fence on this opportunity.

I think this offer makes the most sense for the following owner:

1) they can afford it
2) the week(s) that they are enrolling are opportunistic weeks (sometimes they are personally used, sometimes rented for cash, sometimes traded through II)
3) it moves the owner into a higher tier (Executive, Chairman's Club, etc)
4) they want to hedge against a changing rental market.

Now only TUGgers will consider #4 because 99.9% of the Marriott world has no idea about the ability to rent points, and therefore points are much more scarce to them -- and this offer is more interesting because of that. If we lived in a world where we had to borrow from next year's weeks because we were 50 points short, this would be an interesting offer.

I think this is a well designed opportunity that Marriott has offered. It is 5 years post-introduction, which I think is not accidental. First they sold us points to compensate for our skimmed weeks, then they introduced new bells and whistles that come with new tiers, and now they structure an offer to entice us to buy more points to put us into those higher tiers.

It is a constantly changing point world, and I can not predict who the winners and losers will be in this system.

Best,

Greg
 
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kds4

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Another potential financial factor are Encore packages. We currently have one and will be returning to the property for our follow-up stay and presentation next year. It will be interesting if we receive this offer and they pitch the ability to credit the $2,300 cost of our encore package against the required points purchase to enroll our remaining unenrolled week.

The Encore credit would represent about another .40 off our P3 to bring us down to around $4.70 all in (with a corresponding bump up from Executive to Presidential level with a 60 day window for 30% discounted points reservations versus 30 day and 25% discount we have now not to mention an extended banking deadline of 18 months versus our current 12 months).

Ugh! :shrug:
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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I just did the math for our one post 2010 resale week. Our P3 (price per point) would be approximately $5.14.

Arrghh. Curse you Marriott with your bewitching ways ... must resist :crash:

DC Strangelove Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love the Points.

Don't forget the closing song...

"You'll buy again....Don know what, don't know when..."
 

Fasttr

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Another potential financial factor are Encore packages. We currently have one and will be returning to the property for our follow-up stay and presentation next year. It will be interesting if we receive this offer and they pitch the ability to credit the $2,300 cost of our encore package against the required points purchase to enroll our remaining unenrolled week.

The Encore credit would represent about another .40 off our P3 to bring us down to around $4.70 all in (with a corresponding bump up from Executive to Presidential level with a 60 day window for 30% discounted points reservations versus 30 day and 25% discount we have now not to mention an extended banking deadline of 18 months versus our current 12 months).

Ugh! :shrug:

I believe GregT's letter said limited time offer ends Nov 4th. Presumably of this year.
 

CashEddie

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Greg makes a very valid point with respect to owners that have prime weeks: most of those owners purchased those weeks to use and not trade (which essentially the points system offers us). Think about this: would you pay $25K for the option to trade in II and have to give up your prime weeks in order to play in the trade game? That's essentially what's being offered here. Greg is at the top of the food chain with his weeks and mostly anything he would give up his weeks for would be a down trade. Very clever, Marriott.
 

SueDonJ

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I believe GregT's letter said limited time offer ends Nov 4th. Presumably of this year.

That's my thought, too. It will be interesting to see if this becomes the new norm for enrollment eligibility but I wouldn't think so until they change the rules on my-vacationclub.com.

(A blurb has been added to the DC Points FAQ specifically noting Post #25 here. Greg, I've bolded a few things in that post - hope you don't mind.)
 
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taterhed

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So, for those of us post 2010 with NO MVC account (no points):

What I want (and would sprint for...) is similar to what kds quoted above: a minimal block of points (1k-1500) to hold an account for rentals and the ability to deposit (1 of) my weeks when desired for partial rentals or those 'hard to get' trades.

For that, I would pay a reasonable sum (7500-15K) or buy a Marriott resale week and 1k points (geez, not sure I could pay $12 a point though...based on principles).

Raising the ante to $25000+ seems a bit lofty. Not for those massive points generators (Greg) but for my little MGV.

Listening Marriott? Maybe I'll even spring for an encore to hedge my bet!
 

GaryDouglas

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Higher Hanging Fruit

This all tells me that Marriott now feels that most of the low hanging fruit has already been gleaned and they now have to come up with more ways to get the higher hanging fruit. First limited time offers, then becoming more liberalized as circumstances dictate.

Although we don't have a need right now, someday we would consider, assuming they'd allow an EOY to only require half the points or 1,250. Not interested enough to go through another sales meeting...
 

SueDonJ

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This all tells me that Marriott now feels that most of the low hanging fruit has already been gleaned and they now have to come up with more ways to get the higher hanging fruit. First limited time offers, then becoming more liberalized as circumstances dictate.

Although we don't have a need right now, someday we would consider, assuming they'd allow an EOY to only require half the points or 1,250. Not interested enough to go through another sales meeting...

It tells me that Marriott sales reps may be tired of hearing from prospects that they won't buy unless they're allowed to enroll officially-ineligible Weeks. It's too expensive an option for it to be anything other than a way for them to counter that objection without actually offering something of value or something that will appeal to more than a few in specific situations. (How many of us would have enrolled at the outset if these were the terms then?)

If MVW actually needs more Weeks to be enrolled (which I don't think they do because they're able to mingle inventory in so many creative ways) they'll offer a much less expensive route to that goal.
 
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kds4

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I believe GregT's letter said limited time offer ends Nov 4th. Presumably of this year.

DW just reminded me that we have an upcoming stay at this property later this year (before our scheduled return visit next year on our Encore package). Will have to see if they pitch this to us then instead of waiting until our formal Encore visit next year.

Have to admit if they do, we're already thinking about it. :eek:
 

VacationForever

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We will be going to Ko'olina in December and we will plan on attending the owner's update if we get "invited" since we just went to the one in March, just to see if there is a better offer. We received the letter in March that indicated that we could enroll our weeks in our welcome letter, hence we attended the update. I am still keen to enroll our 2 weeks but not at 6500 DC points or even Greg's offer of 3500 DC points.
 

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I beg to differ with the assumption being made here that most owners who bought the highest value weeks are not interested in exchanging them for points.

We bought Maui oceanfront in the new towers to use and we absolutely LOVE the resort. Having said that, we have now traded a Maui week for 7475 DC points each of the last three years because we can get so much value by using those points elsewhere in non-peak times. (Think something like 6 winter weeks at Grande Ocean for the value of a single Maui week.) It does not mean we can't go to Maui, it just means that we have to stay elsewhere or get an II trade into MOC with our 3BR Grand Chateau if we lock off and deposit both halves. Would I rather spend a week (or two weeks if locked off) in our Maui villa, or spend 6 weeks at Grande Ocean and still go to Maui on a trade or stay in a hotel on MR points? To me, the case for trading our beloved Maui week is quite compelling, although I don't think we will do it every year.
 
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GreenTea

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I just got the call.

The salesman I purchased my initial points from called about my resale week. Buy 2500 DC points, fully enroll my week in the program.
 
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GreenTea

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That's my thought, too. It will be interesting to see if this becomes the new norm for enrollment eligibility but I wouldn't think so until they change the rules on my-vacationclub.com.

(A blurb has been added to the DC Points FAQ specifically noting Post #25 here. Greg, I've bolded a few things in that post - hope you don't mind.)



My previous salesman called me today. I don't know when or if it will be online. He said it was only valid for the next month.
 

kds4

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My previous salesman called me today. I don't know when or if it will be online. He said it was only valid for the next month.

So, GregT's salesperson in Hawaii offered him the deal through the first week of November. Another poster had it offered by a salesperson at MOW but didn't say when the 'offer expires'. While your salesperson only gave you until the end of next month to take advantage of this 'special opportunity'.

While the messaging appears generally consistent, the timeframes sure aren't. It seems the push for MVCI Sales is now to create that 'sense of urgency' to get people to 'get it before it's too late'...

Unlike my emoticon friend, that's not cool. :cool:
 

JIMinNC

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Not sure I agree with that method of valuation. In order to use the 3850 points my GO week is worth inside the DC system, I would have to elect to give it up for the year to get at the points. So the way I see it, in order to be comparing apples to apples due to having to elect to give up the week to get at those points, I would also have to include the upfront costs that I paid to purchase that week in order to truly calculate my cost per point for those 6350 points in total. Alternatively, if I never really plan to convert the week to points, all I have is done is paid $10.76 per point for 2500 Trust points and a bump up in status, so my true cost per point is really $10.76.

I agree that if you are trying to calculate a valuation/fully-loaded cost, then yes, you should include the upfront cost that has already been paid. But taking that one step further then, if a pre-2010 GO Gold OF owner was trying to decide whether to pay $2395 to enroll their week, then they should add their original cost of the week they incurred many years ago of (guessing) $20,000, making their total cost $22,395 for 3850 points or $5.82. While that would truly reflect their cost per point, it would NOT reflect their cost of enrollment, which is, in fact, just $2395.

So, if I were an owner of a post-2010 resale week, my main concern would be - "What will it cost me to enroll that week and get the benefits of that enrollment?" So in that case, my cost of enrollment would be $26,900. And for that cost, I would get 1.) Executive status and the 13-month 1+ day privilege, and 2.) the option to elect points and use them. While if I already owned a Gold GO, it would be primarily for use, I could conceive of any number of scenarios where I might opt in a given year to elect for Points. So, I would be paying $26,900 for those added benefits.

While I would certainly prefer a future offer to enroll a post-2010 week for $2395, I'm realistic enough to know that will never happen. They will always try to use enrollment as a way to get you to buy Trust points, since that is how they make their money. I understand that. But as offers go, this seems very attractive. I was expecting they would require a matching point purchase, which for a Gold GO week would mean 4000 points. Now THAT would be a complete non starter. By comparison, this deal is really a decent compromise, I think. I only wish I already had a Gold GO week to take advantage of it :bawl:

As you pointed out, the only real benefit of the bump in status (to me anyhow) is in getting at the 1+ day rentals earlier....and I am not so sure that is worth the $27K investment....at least from what I have experienced in using the DC so far.

And that said, if the bump in status is not worth it to me....why pay the upfront $$ as with a few clicks of my mouse, I can rent the 6350 points any time I want.

Unless somebody can show me the light....I'm still yawning at this deal!!!

While I agree with this basic logic in theory, if at some point in the future we buy a resale week of some type, and if a few years later Marriott made us an offer substantially similar to this, I would be very inclined to do it for several reasons:

1.) It opens up the 13-month 1+ option which would allow us to book shorter stays during prime weeks that will likely not be available at 10 months.

2.) It gives us a larger batch of points that we fully control and can bank and borrow at will. That is the one disadvantage of rented points - no banking or borrowing.

3.) For big point requirement trips, point rentals would still be available to me. Owning a few more just gives more flexibility - and flexibility is why we bought into DC in the first place.

4.) As GregT mentioned above, it would be sort of an insurance policy against any future Marriott devaluation of the point rental privilege.
 

AlmostRetired

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Originally Posted by*l0410z*
A little bit off topic .....Marriott will hit a wall when it comes to the price per point. The fact is, the price is not tied to any underlying value other than a vacation experience.

The same was said about the price of developer-sold weeks. The prices charged for those bear little relationship to the underlying value of the real estate. The price was always set more by what price the market will bear than the value of the real estate.


I think we are in agreement, hence my comment it is based on the vacation experience. The question becomes is there is limit to what the market will pay for the experience. No market goes up forever... not even one created by Marriott.

Originally Posted by*l0410z*
If Marriott starts tying point purchase with resale purchases that happened after 2010, it would suggest to me the wall has been hit. It would also suggest the hybrid model of resale (from Marriott) and new DC point purchase is not enough of a discount to work.

I'm not sure I agree. IF they decide to do this, it may be that they think this will increase their ability to make points sales to legacy week owners. When you think about it, for someone who already owns a week worth 4000 points, this would cut the cost per point in half for that owner's resulting 8000 points. What's in it for Marriott is they still sell 4000 points at $12.66 (or whatever) per point that they may not have otherwise sold. Plus as an added benefit they get to enroll a week that potentially increases the pool of weeks available in the points exchange pool.

If you go back to why someone might have purchased resale after 6/2010, it was most likely because they did not want to pay for an vacation experience they would get much cheaper from week ownership. I, like many did purchase a week after 6/10. I can't speak for all in this group but I see no benefit with this offer.

Marriott needed legacy week owners to add prime weeks into the pool. Since then, ROFR has picked up and added many prime weeks into the pool and resale after 6/10 were weeks Marriott could have had with ROFR but didn't want. The after 6/10 might be the toughest group to convert because they were asked to drink the kool aid and found it bitter the first time around, hence the resale purchase. If Marriott is going after this group, it may show a sign of weakness in the new sales model. The stock being down 22 percent from its high may be a second indicator.

I paid the nominal fee for my legacy week and would be willing to pay another for my week purchased after 6/10. If Marriott offers this for purchases after 6/10, the market for DC points is dead (I strongly believe the market will never be dead and the nominal fee offer will never happen).
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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This may be appealing for those with large point properties, but it's not so good for the lower point properties.

An example:

A Red Week (Platinum) Royal Palms 2BR has a maintenance fee of around $1185.
You'd get (after skim) around 2000 points.

The 2500 points would cost $1187.50 in maintenance fees.

Now that would get you one 2 BR high season week at Ko Olina, (island view) at an annual cost of $2350+ per year.

The Ko Olina maintenance fee is currently $1952 for a 2BR. So the deal would cost one $350-$400 more in maintenance fees...

And the $26,000 up front cost. I think you could buy a Ko Olina 2BR (IV), and get it past ROFR for less than $26,000...(And you could sell the Royal Palm back to Marriott for around $3500. (I got $3750 a few months ago...)

Food for thought...
 

JIMinNC

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If you go back to why someone might have purchased resale after 6/2010, it was most likely because they did not want to pay for an vacation experience they would get much cheaper from week ownership. I, like many did purchase a week after 6/10. I can't speak for all in this group but I see no benefit with this offer.

I think there are other reasons why someone would purchase a post-6/2010 week. We will likely purchase such a week within the next 18 to 24 months, primarily to use at a home resort. But one of the things I don't like about such a purchase is the inability to enroll that week in the DC, meaning my only choice for alternative usage is II trading. I much prefer the DC booking experience to the II trading experience as a way to travel to a variety of resorts.

While home resort use would be my primary motivation for purchase of a resale week, I value options. If I were ever offered a post-purchase enrollment alternative similar to the offer being made now, I would be very interested because electing points provides an alternative usage option for such a week that could be appealing in some years.

The after 6/10 might be the toughest group to convert because they were asked to drink the kool aid and found it bitter the first time around, hence the resale purchase.

Again, people may have bought a post-2010 week for a variety of reasons, not all of which are inconsistent with also being a DC owner. I suspect there are many folks out there with post-2010 weeks that will feel the ability to enroll for an incremental cost of $5 or less per point will be very attractive for the added options and flexibility the DC offers.

If Marriott is going after this group, it may show a sign of weakness in the new sales model. The stock being down 22 percent from its high may be a second indicator.

Most of the 22% drop is the result of the general market decline that has taken place over the last two weeks. VAC did drop about 6% after their last earnings report due to a slight miss on top-line revenue vs analysts expectations. They did beat earnings estimates by about 10%, but were short on revenue. That revenue weakness was primarily driven by sales declines in Asia Pacific and Europe. North American sales were actually up 4% year over year.

I think this new offer is driven more by a decision that "one size does not fit all". I think they have concluded that a targeted offer to post-2010 weeks owners such as this might just help boost point sales - which is their ultimate goal after all. It makes the point purchase more attractive without any real downside to Marriott. If it helps increase their close % for this group of owners, it is a win for Marriott.

I paid the nominal fee for my legacy week and would be willing to pay another for my week purchased after 6/10. If Marriott offers this for purchases after 6/10, the market for DC points is dead (I strongly believe the market will never be dead and the nominal fee offer will never happen).

On this we agree. They will never offer the option to enroll a post-6/2010 week for just a fee. Their business is selling points, so offering enrollment as a points purchase incentive fits their revenue model.

In the final analysis, I agree 100% that at $12.66+ per point, pure DC Trust points is a difficult economic argument. But this is really no different than the old developer-sold weeks model - in both cases Marriott and other developers rely on purchasers who don't think through the economics for the bulk of their sales. But having said that, enrollment of a traditional week coupled with a Trust points purchase - whether through a hybrid bundle or an offer to current owners like the one now being made - can be an attractive way to combine the best of the old weeks system with the flexibility of the points system.
 
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