Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [MERGED]

[GregT]

All,

I have reason to suspect that Marriott will soon announce a program whereby owners of weeks purchased after June 2010 will have the opportunity to enroll their weeks if the owner purchases Trust Points directly from Marriott. This sounds like a version of the hybrid purchase, except that the owner is supplying the resale week.

This also sounds similar to the requalification program that we have seen with Starwood, whereby if an owner spends $20,000 (may have increased to $40,000), they can enroll a single week and make it eligible for StarOptions. I know many Starwood owners prize an Annual SDO for requalification because it is a high StarOption/low MF week.

I am curious what price threshold Marriott owners would pay in order to enroll all of their unenrolled, post June 2010 weeks. I suspect it will require a substantial purchase of Trust Points, and curious what people would entertain. Since TUGgers love to speculate, I thought I would toss the beach ball out there.

I am a candidate for this because I have three unenrolled weeks (the two new 3BRs and my dedicated trader at Willow Ridge), although it would be alot more compelling for me if I could somehow access 6206/26 -- but like Dante, I have abandoned all hope. (Fasttr, you know I like classics).

Any thoughts on this?

Best,

Greg

 

[bazzap]

I would be ready to lay out a few thousand $s to enrol my ineligible resale weeks alongside those developer weeks I have already enrolled.
I suspect it may be tens of thousands of $s though, in which case nah thank you!

 

[Fasttr]

My gut tells me it would be like the hybrid deal, where you would have to purchase an equal or greater number of Trust points vs. the points allotted to the resale week you were enrolling. Not cheap in most instances....but at least it would be an option. I don't see the downside in them offering it.

 

[dualrated2]

That has been offered in the past at a few of the Hawaii presentations I've attended. The first time was about three years ago. I declined.

 

[jont]

I would be ready to lay out a few thousand $s to enrol my ineligible resale weeks alongside those developer weeks I have already enrolled.
I suspect it may be tens of thousands of $s though, in which case nah thank you!

Im with bazzap. I would be willing to cough up a few grand in junk fees to enroll my one post 6/20/2010 week but if i had to buy an equal number for trust points for an extra 20k plus I would say thanks but no thanks.

 

[Fasttr]

I have reason to suspect...

And your reason is??

 

[CashEddie]

As much as I would like for this option to come to pass, I don't think it will happen. Marriott has never liked the resale market and to offer this to external purchases would legitimize the resale market that they so much disdain.

Its all about profit for Marriott. With the hybrid solution today, they get more money by acting as broker for the resale weeks they offer plus the points purchase. If they started to allow the enrollment of the post 2010 weeks, they know a lot of owners have prime weeks that would essentially be getting into the program very cheap.

For example, when I was at OceanWatch last week, they were selling 4000 points at $50K - 20% discount as an incentive for ~ $40K. Now say if I have a week that is worth 4000 points I picked up post 2010 when the TS resale market was truly a buyers market, and they offer this option to me, I would essentially get 8000 points for $50K. They can sale 8000 points @ $12.50/point with no incentive which is $100K. No way they are going to give away that much value.

Yes the $50K outlay of cash is a lot but if one had the money and wanted to have access to those points and status, it would be a much cheaper entry point then purchasing that same week resale from Marriott ($20K - $25K) plus the equivalent points at $50K which would be $75K cash outlay.

 

[Fasttr]

As much as I would like for this option to come to pass, I don't think it will happen. Marriott has never liked the resale market and to offer this to external purchases would legitimize the resale market that they so much disdain.

Its all about profit for Marriott. With the hybrid solution today, they get more money by acting as broker for the resale weeks they offer plus the points purchase. If they started to allow the enrollment of the post 2010 weeks, they know a lot of owners have prime weeks that would essentially be getting into the program very cheap.

For example, when I was at OceanWatch last week, they were selling 4000 points at $50K - 20% discount as an incentive for ~ $40K. Now say if I have a week that is worth 4000 points I picked up post 2010 when the TS resale market was truly a buyers market, and they offer this option to me, I would essentially get 8000 points for $50K. They can sale 8000 points @ $12.50/point with no incentive which is $100K. No way they are going to give away that much value.

Yes the $50K outlay of cash is a lot but if one had the money and wanted to have access to those points and status, it would be a much cheaper entry point then purchasing that same week resale from Marriott ($20K - $25K) plus the equivalent points at $50K which would be $75K cash outlay.

You are only getting 4000 points for your $40K or $50K as the other points are just an option afforded to you (which costs them nothing), that you may use or you may not use....and if you use it, MVC gets another week of inventory to use in the DC, trade via II, rent for $$ on Marriott.com, etc. I have a feeling they would take the $40K or $50K sale all day long.

 

[mjm1]

Greg, this is an interesting question. I have asked Marriott sales people about the possibility of them offering something like this and each one of them said there is no way they would. Of course, we can't always rely on what they say. That said, I would like to see them offer it.

We own MKO which is a post-June 2010 unit. I would consider enrolling it for a fee, but like others wouldn't want to buy additional points. I'm not sure there would be enough incentive for Marriott to offer such an opportunity.

What gives you a sense that they may decide to open this option for us?

Mike

 

[dioxide45]

As much as I would like for this option to come to pass, I don't think it will happen. Marriott has never liked the resale market and to offer this to external purchases would legitimize the resale market that they so much disdain.

Its all about profit for Marriott. With the hybrid solution today, they get more money by acting as broker for the resale weeks they offer plus the points purchase. If they started to allow the enrollment of the post 2010 weeks, they know a lot of owners have prime weeks that would essentially be getting into the program very cheap.

For example, when I was at OceanWatch last week, they were selling 4000 points at $50K - 20% discount as an incentive for ~ $40K. Now say if I have a week that is worth 4000 points I picked up post 2010 when the TS resale market was truly a buyers market, and they offer this option to me, I would essentially get 8000 points for $50K. They can sale 8000 points @ $12.50/point with no incentive which is $100K. No way they are going to give away that much value.

Yes the $50K outlay of cash is a lot but if one had the money and wanted to have access to those points and status, it would be a much cheaper entry point then purchasing that same week resale from Marriott ($20K - $25K) plus the equivalent points at $50K which would be $75K cash outlay.

My guess is that if they did offer such a program, they might have a secondary cutoff, preventing people from buying new resale weeks to enroll under the program. So they may say, you can enroll any week bought externally between 6/20/2010 and 6/20/2015 as long as you buy X amount of points. This would prevent people from using the current resale market to get their newly purchased external weeks in to the program.

I don't think Marriott needs the additional external resale weeks enrolled to make the program work. They would only do this if they think it can help them to sell new trust points. I know that I wouldn't do it under any circumstances, but someone with a prime week or two that are post 6/202010 resales might be willing to fork over $50K or so if that means they are instantly Chairman's Club.

 

[AlmostRetired]

A little bit off topic .....Marriott will hit a wall when it comes to the price per point. The fact is, the price is not tied to any underlying value other than a vacation experience. This to me is no different than the story The Emperor's New Clothes. Do not get me wrong, I had and continue to have nothing but wonderful vacations experiences with and because of the Marriott (week) ownership. My vacation experiences outside of timeshares have been just as wonderful. Neither requires a 12 plus point cost to accomplish.

If Marriott starts tying point purchase with resale purchases that happened after 2010, it would suggest to me the wall has been hit. It would also suggest the hybrid model of resale (from Marriott) and new DC point purchase is not enough of a discount to work.

I have not nor would I use my legacy week for DC points. It is too valuable as a rental. If and when I want to use DC points, I would tap into the DC point rental market.

Back on topic...I paid 5000 for my summer Monarch week which would get me 2600 DC Points if it was allowed under the DC fold. 50 cents tp $1 per point for the enrollment and I might do it just for the option that allows my kids to have that option once it become their headache.

 

[JIMinNC]

A little bit off topic .....Marriott will hit a wall when it comes to the price per point. The fact is, the price is not tied to any underlying value other than a vacation experience.

The same was said about the price of developer-sold weeks. The prices charged for those bear little relationship to the underlying value of the real estate. The price was always set more by what price the market will bear than the value of the real estate.

If Marriott starts tying point purchase with resale purchases that happened after 2010, it would suggest to me the wall has been hit. It would also suggest the hybrid model of resale (from Marriott) and new DC point purchase is not enough of a discount to work.

I'm not sure I agree. IF they decide to do this, it may be that they think this will increase their ability to make points sales to legacy week owners. When you think about it, for someone who already owns a week worth 4000 points, this would cut the cost per point in half for that owner's resulting 8000 points. What's in it for Marriott is they still sell 4000 points at $12.66 (or whatever) per point that they may not have otherwise sold. Plus as an added benefit they get to enroll a week that potentially increases the pool of weeks available in the points exchange pool.

I have not nor would I use my legacy week for DC points. It is too valuable as a rental. If and when I want to use DC points, I would tap into the DC point rental market.

For those of us who want no part of the weeks rental market/business, exchanging for DC points is attractive, at least for the higher-value weeks with a good MF cost/point. (By the way...I do like point rentals since that allows me to make a reservation in my own name. I just do not want to play in the consumer-to-consumer rental business - either as a renter or a landlord).

 

[chrisfromOC]

All,

I have reason to suspect that Marriott will soon announce a program whereby owners of weeks purchased after June 2010 will have the opportunity to enroll their weeks if the owner purchases Trust Points directly from Marriott. This sounds like a version of the hybrid purchase, except that the owner is supplying the resale week.

This also sounds similar to the requalification program that we have seen with Starwood, whereby if an owner spends $20,000 (may have increased to $40,000), they can enroll a single week and make it eligible for StarOptions. I know many Starwood owners prize an Annual SDO for requalification because it is a high StarOption/low MF week.

I am curious what price threshold Marriott owners would pay in order to enroll all of their unenrolled, post June 2010 weeks. I suspect it will require a substantial purchase of Trust Points, and curious what people would entertain. Since TUGgers love to speculate, I thought I would toss the beach ball out there.

I am a candidate for this because I have three unenrolled weeks (the two new 3BRs and my dedicated trader at Willow Ridge), although it would be alot more compelling for me if I could somehow access 6206/26 -- but like Dante, I have abandoned all hope. (Fasttr, you know I like classics).

Any thoughts on this?

Best,

Greg

I talked with Marriott resale earlier this week and they did tell me that if I bought a resale week they have available, it would qualify to become part of the points program if at the same time I bought a points package equivalent to the number of points that the week in question was worth. It was kind of a non-starter to me, as I was interested in a Waiohai week 52 they have for sale, but I would not consider purchasing 5,000 destination points in addition to this week.

Chris

 

[BocaBoy]

That has been offered in the past at a few of the Hawaii presentations I've attended. The first time was about three years ago. I declined.

I have never seen anyone say this before and I have never been offered it in a Hawaii (or other) sales presentation. Are you sure they were not talking about the hybrid purchase offer through Marriott Resales?

 

[JIMinNC]

I talked with Marriott resale earlier this week and they did tell me that if I bought a resale week they have available, it would qualify to become part of the points program if at the same time I bought a points package equivalent to the number of points that the week in question was worth. It was kind of a non-starter to me, as I was interested in a Waiohai week 52 they have for sale, but I would not consider purchasing 5,000 destination points in addition to this week.

Chris

This is just the standard hybrid bundle that Marriott has been offering for awhile. What GregT was referencing is allowing someone who already owns a post-2010 resale week to be able to buy points to enable that week to be enrolled.

 

[Southerngirl528]

Very interesting thread, GregT. Our 2 weeks, 2 bdrm, Oceanfront EOYO Napili in Maui were bought in 2009, so if I understand correctly we could "enroll" those 2 weeks if we wanted. We just closed on a Napili EOYE Island view 2 bdrm resale & are waiting for the transfer of title from Marriott.

I went to a member "update" when at MOC this last Feb. I have turned this every which way but loose and crunched numbers but for us it doesn't seem like enrolling our weeks would be the most economical choice. Or perhaps I'm missing some pieces of this puzzle…..

We bought MOC Napili to stay there. ONLY there. I own DVC for going elsewhere. I've looked at the points charts and we couldn't even book our own resort as long if we convert our weeks to points. Between that fact and the ridiculous cost of points, what am I missing?? In our scenario it seems to make more sense to just buy more weeks resale. If we wanted to trade for other locations, I can see the benefit. But we just want to stay longer on Maui.

 

[Fasttr]

In our scenario it seems to make more sense to just buy more weeks resale. If we wanted to trade for other locations, I can see the benefit. But we just want to stay longer on Maui.

I think that will be the reaction of most if they do roll something like this out. Folks balked at enrolling their pre June 2010 weeks because of a couple thousand dollar enrollment fee. What makes MVC feel that folks who bought resale post June 2010, presumably because they feel it was far more economical to do so as opposed to buying points, will all of a sudden decide to drop some major coin to buy expensive points to gain the privilege of enrolling their post 2010 weeks. I would bet this will be met with a big yawn from the resale purchase minded community if they attempt to roll it out.

 

[Southerngirl528]

Well Fasttr, that's certainly the case for us. It just doesn't seem to make the remotest sense for us and our dedicated us of our beloved Maui Ocean Club. The prices just seem crazy. But that's just me. I figured out how many points I would need to add another week in a unit like what we bought in '09, and it was insane. We could easily buy another week resale, even at today's higher prices, for much cheaper than those crazy points. AND the extra fees……. for some folks I'm sure this program may make good sense. Just not us.

 

[SueDonJ]

That has been offered in the past at a few of the Hawaii presentations I've attended. The first time was about three years ago. I declined.

I have never seen anyone say this before and I have never been offered it in a Hawaii (or other) sales presentation. Are you sure they were not talking about the hybrid purchase offer through Marriott Resales?

There has only ever been one person who reported to TUG that the sales office offered to enroll her post-6/20/10 external resale Week with a purchase of DC Trust Points, and several days later she reported back that the enrollment was declined after all because her Week was ineligible. (I apologize but I can't remember her name ...)

Dualrated, if you're not talking about what Boca mentioned, a hybrid purchase of a Marriott Resale Week and Trust Points, could you be talking about the enrollment fee for an eligible Week being waived with the purchase of Trust Points? That's also something that the sales reps have been offering for quite some time, and also different from what Greg is saying now in that Marriott reportedly will be allowing enrollment of previously-inelgible Weeks.

It will be interesting to see how/if this plays out, whether any TUGgers will see value in enrolling post-6/20/10 external resales considering that it appears it will require a purchase of Trust Points.

 

[JIMinNC]

Very interesting thread, GregT. Our 2 weeks, 2 bdrm, Oceanfront EOYO Napili in Maui were bought in 2009, so if I understand correctly we could "enroll" those 2 weeks if we wanted. We just closed on a Napili EOYE Island view 2 bdrm resale & are waiting for the transfer of title from Marriott.

I went to a member "update" when at MOC this last Feb. I have turned this every which way but loose and crunched numbers but for us it doesn't seem like enrolling our weeks would be the most economical choice. Or perhaps I'm missing some pieces of this puzzle…..

We bought MOC Napili to stay there. ONLY there. I own DVC for going elsewhere. I've looked at the points charts and we couldn't even book our own resort as long if we convert our weeks to points. Between that fact and the ridiculous cost of points, what am I missing?? In our scenario it seems to make more sense to just buy more weeks resale. If we wanted to trade for other locations, I can see the benefit. But we just want to stay longer on Maui.

The weeks you bought in 2009 you should be able to enroll without buying any expensive points. All you would have to pay is the enrollment fee, which I think is $2395 or something like that, and sometimes people have reported they have been offered lower priced deals.

But obviously, if you never want to use those weeks for anything other than Maui, you have no need for the points -- unless you just wanted to spend a small fraction of what the weeks probably cost to have the option to select points if the need ever did arise.

In our case, if we owned any unenrolled weeks, I would gladly pay the $2395 for the flexibility to enroll and use points. For our needs, that would be a no-brainer. But the only thing that could make me interested in buying more retail trust points would be if, at some point, 1.) I felt I had to get to a higher Ownership tier like Executive for the 13 month 1+ reservation privilege or 2.) Point rentals are banned or otherwise cease to work effectively for any reason.

 

[dualrated2]

I have never seen anyone say this before and I have never been offered it in a Hawaii (or other) sales presentation. Are you sure they were not talking about the hybrid purchase offer through Marriott Resales?

No, it happened not once but twice. I even discussed it in this thread two years ago.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191386 Post #5

 

[dioxide45]

No, it happened not once but twice. I even discussed it in this thread two years ago.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191386 Post #5

My guess is that when push came to shove, it wouldn't have worked out. I too recall what Sue was referring to in post #19. The sales person may have said that, but we won't ever know if it would have panned out like it didn't for the person that Sue was referring to.

 

[rovitm]

When you purchase a bundled week and points combo is your week permanently eligible for points conversion? If you later sell your points do you lose that option?

 

[BocaBoy]

When you purchase a bundled week and points combo is your week permanently eligible for points conversion? If you later sell your points do you lose that option?

No, once enrolled the week can stay enrolled even if the trust points are later sold.

 

[GregT]

Received this email today:

Hi Greg,

I just left you a voice mail. We met last year and tried to sell you a “bundle”. You said to give you a call if Marriott did offer anything out of the ordinary. Well, here you go…

(bolding mine <---- SueDonJ)
Any external weeks purchased after the June 2010 deadline that have closed before August 15, 2015 can be enrolled in the Destinations Club for a limited time with a purchase of points:

2500 – enrolls 1 external week
3500 – enrolls 2 external weeks
5000 – enrolls 3-7 external weeks

Limited time offer – Points purchase must be made before November 4 (Note: there is a points price increase on Sep 10)

So, here are two options with your current portfolio.

Purchase

2500 Destination Points
Current Price: $31,650 ($12.66/pt)
Mail-out Purchase Incentive:
1) $3150 discount (11.40/pt) AND 2500 Club PlusPoints or 100,000 REWARDS – brings price down to $28,500
-OR-
2) $4750 discount (10.76/pt) – brings price down to $26,900
3) Platinum Elite for 3 years (through Feb. 2019)

This purchase would enroll any one of your three external weeks (you choose), including the Maui 3 bedroom, with full Destination Club and Marriott Rewards conversion options.

3500 Destination Points
Current Price: $44,310 ($12.66/pt)
Mail-out Purchase Incentive:
1) $6650 discount (10.76/pt) AND 4000 Club PlusPoints or 400,000 REWARDS – brings price down to $37,660
-OR-
2) $8890 discount (10.12/pt) – brings price down to $35,420
3) Platinum Elite for 3 years (through Feb. 2019)

This purchase would enroll any two of your three external weeks (you choose), including the Maui 3 bedroom, with full Destination Club and Marriott Rewards conversion options.

We would need a 10% minimum deposit and could give same as cash terms for 30-60 days, and using the Chase Marriott Visa could earn you an additional 135,000-190,000 Rewards. We also offer financing.

It would be important to close fairly early if you wanted to convert any of the enrolled weeks to Destination points for 2016.

Thanks for your consideration and let me know if you have any questions.