NO Access to trusts pool by enrolled owners (Marriott's response - post #447)

[sparty]

Got a call from Corporate

Tuesday night (July 26th), after waiting 3.5 hours for a VOA at 9 am EST and getting shot down in my points request. I crafted a nice letter to Marriott corporate with my concerns and issues.

Today I got a response.. I am willing to share the executives name at corporate but not sure if posting peoples names is a violation here, I think it is.

Anyways here's what he said:

1) Marriott will consider refunding my enrolment fees

2) There are two pools - enrolled owners and points/trust owners - they don't play together except for 11 resorts - Lakeshore Reserve, Crystal Shores, etc. (I think most may already know this.

3) As of this afternoon around 3 PM central - there were 4000 enrolled owners and nobody should worry about trading as a lot (most?) of the 400,000 "legacy" owners will convert and then when they deposit there will be easy trading opportunities

4) Nobody is calling in (Customer Advocacy) and complaining about the system - I am the only one who thinks the MVCD has some serious issues/limitations.

5) The Marriott agents are all well trained and knowledgeable - He doesn't know of any issues related to mis-information and would like names of any Marriott employees who may have given incorrect information.

Ok.. What kool-aide is he drinking.. Once they return my enrollment fees I will have some with him..

 

[brigechols]

Sparty,

Ask the executive to read Mr. Marriott's blog for a reality check :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[TrapperDog]

I referred to a legacy owner who does not convert is playing in a closed system. You took it to the points comparison of exchange members to points owners.

This is STILL not a closed system. Before the new program, another owner who chose to deposit, that week went into the II pool. It would have been available to me for an exchange. Now, an enrolled owner can convert this week to points. If I'm not enrolled, it's not available to me but IS available to points owners. Inventory goes out but does not come in. Less inventory available to non-enrolling members. Gradual devaluing of my week for trading as more enroll.

 

[Fredm]

This is STILL not a closed system. Before the new program, another owner who chose to deposit, that week went into the II pool. It would have been available to me for an exchange. Now, an enrolled owner can convert this week to points. If I'm not enrolled, it's not available to me but IS available to points owners. Inventory goes out but does not come in. Less inventory available to non-enrolling members. Gradual devaluing of my week for trading as more enroll.

Trapper, I understand what you are saying.
But, that is also one less exchanger competing for an exchange.
Also, if Marriott gets the inventory from I.I. they replace it with a comparable share.

Yes, the I.I. inventory pool will decrease over time as more owners convert. So will the competition. This is no different than some number of owners who decide to take their exchanges to SFX (as suggested by jerseygirl in this thread).

Your point is well taken. At some distant future time, legacy system owners may conclude that they will have a better shot by joining the D-club. In fact, Marriott is probably counting on it. I said as much in my post #634.

 

[windje2000]

Tuesday night (July 26th), after waiting 3.5 hours for a VOA at 9 am EST and getting shot down in my points request. I crafted a nice letter to Marriott corporate with my concerns and issues.

Today I got a response.. I am willing to share the executives name at corporate but not sure if posting peoples names is a violation here, I think it is.

Anyways here's what he said:

1) Marriott will consider refunding my enrolment fees

2) There are two pools - enrolled owners and points/trust owners - they don't play together except for 11 resorts - Lakeshore Reserve, Crystal Shores, etc. (I think most may already know this.

3) As of this afternoon around 3 PM central - there were 4000 enrolled owners and nobody should worry about trading as a lot (most?) of the 400,000 "legacy" owners will convert and then when they deposit there will be easy trading opportunities

4) Nobody is calling in (Customer Advocacy) and complaining about the system - I am the only one who thinks the MVCD has some serious issues/limitations.

5) The Marriott agents are all well trained and knowledgeable - He doesn't know of any issues related to mis-information and would like names of any Marriott employees who may have given incorrect information.

Ok.. What kool-aide is he drinking.. Once they return my enrollment fees I will have some with him..

Consider means maybe they will and maybe they won't

I thought the sales people were saying they enrolled 4,000 in week one - that would mean nothing since?

You're the only one complaining? [yet this board has become the land of delusional paranoia]

No issues with bad info from Marriott staff.


This guy lives in an alternate reality named 'don't rock the boat' in the county of 'make sure Bill doesn't read his blog' on Lake Wobegone, where all the timeshares are above average. This man is delusional, which by the way is defined as having strongly held but false beliefs.

Many of the suspicions of those 'delusional paranoiacs' on this board characterized variously as 'black helicopter' enthusiasts have been confirmed as truth as the onion is peeled back.

A better question is

Why do we have to peel the onion?

Why can't people get a straight answer to a simple question on a carefully considered plan four years in the making?

 

[BocaBum99]

Consider means maybe they will and maybe they won't

I thought the sales people were saying they enrolled 4,000 in week one - that would mean nothing since?

You're the only one complaining? [yet this board has become the land of delusional paranoia]

No issues with bad info from Marriott staff.


This guy lives in an alternate reality named 'don't rock the boat' in the county of 'make sure Bill doesn't read his blog' on Lake Wobegone, where all the timeshares are above average. This man is delusional, which by the way is defined as having strongly held but false beliefs.

Many of the suspicions of those 'delusional paranoiacs' on this board characterized variously as 'black helicopter' enthusiasts have been confirmed as truth as the onion is peeled back.

A better question is

Why do we have to peel the onion?

Why can't people get a straight answer to a simple question on a carefully considered plan four years in the making?

The reason why it's delusional paranoia is because more likely than not, Marriott is NOT trying to screw over owners. Sure, they are trying to profit along the way, but that is what all companies do. They will live and die by the customer satisfaction of this new program and therefore will have to take dramatic action to improve their program, their communication and their execution. They will get there eventually. That is when we should evaluate their program and its impact to owners.

Most of the problems that we see and hear about can most simply be explained by bad execution on Marriott's part. Marriott isn't smart enough to screw up this badly or come up with a scheme as elaborate as has been discussed on this message board to cheat owners. I really don't believe in conspiracy theories. Such theories are usually impossible to plan and pull off.

 

[windje2000]

The reason why it's delusional paranoia is because more likely than not, Marriott is NOT trying to screw over owners. Sure, they are trying to profit along the way, but that is what all companies do. They will live and die by the customer satisfaction of this new program and therefore will have to take dramatic action to improve their program, their communication and their execution. They will get there eventually. That is when we should evaluate their program and its impact to owners.

Most of the problems that we see and hear about can most simply be explained by bad execution on Marriott's part. Marriott isn't smart enough to screw up this badly or come up with a scheme as elaborate as has been discussed on this message board to cheat owners. I really don't believe in conspiracy theories. Such theories are usually impossible to plan and pull off.

Time will tell

 

[m61376]

3) As of this afternoon around 3 PM central - there were 4000 enrolled owners and nobody should worry about trading as a lot (most?) of the 400,000 "legacy" owners will convert and then when they deposit there will be easy trading opportunities

4) Nobody is calling in (Customer Advocacy) and complaining about the system - I am the only one who thinks the MVCD has some serious issues/limitations.

5) The Marriott agents are all well trained and knowledgeable - He doesn't know of any issues related to mis-information and would like names of any Marriott employees who may have given incorrect information.

Ok.. What kool-aide is he drinking.. Once they return my enrollment fees I will have some with him..

Aside from a lot of what you said being almost laughable, I find the enrollment figure interesting. That would mean that in over a months they have managed to enroll 1% of owners, during a time when there is heightened interest because it is new and exciting. At that rate, I'd be worried about them eventually enrolling the projected 20%, let alone "most."

 

[Fredm]

Aside from a lot of what you said being almost laughable, I find the enrollment figure interesting. That would mean that in over a months they have managed to enroll 1% of owners, during a time when there is heightened interest because it is new and exciting. At that rate, I'd be worried about them eventually enrolling the projected 20%, let alone "most."

Most owners do not yet know of the program.
Many that do have been subject to what has been posted here.

Of those that have been notified, most remain uncommitted. They have until the end of the year to take advantage of the current offer.
Given that there is no rush, I am surprised that 4000 enrolled.

Like all the numbers and stats thrown around, I have no reason to believe the accuracy of this one either.

 

[dioxide45]

Enrollments really is a meaningless number. They could enroll 100%, but that could have zero effect on weeks owners. Marriott needs people to convert their weeks to points. That is the challenge.

 

[Dean]

Enrollments really is a meaningless number. They could enroll 100%, but that could have zero effect on weeks owners. Marriott needs people to convert their weeks to points. That is the challenge.

True in a sense, however, an enrolled week is a potential points conversion and a non enrolled week isn't, at least directly. Of course even non converted weeks have the potential to cross over through any rental program, breakage inventory, MR points conversions and in the back door from II. One thing I don't think I've seen discussed (might have missed it) is that if enough owners convert at a given resort, there is the possibility of later having the owners vote to actually join the trust. Maybe this will be the new change we're talking about 10 years from now. I'm not saying this will happen, only that it is a possibility.

 

[m61376]

True in a sense, however, an enrolled week is a potential points conversion and a non enrolled week isn't, at least directly. Of course even non converted weeks have the potential to cross over through any rental program, breakage inventory, MR points conversions and in the back door from II. One thing I don't think I've seen discussed (might have missed it) is that if enough owners convert at a given resort, there is the possibility of later having the owners vote to actually join the trust. Maybe this will be the new change we're talking about 10 years from now. I'm not saying this will happen, only that it is a possibility.

I'm not so sure that could potentially happen. Once a deeded week is owned it is owned unless the owner relinquishes it voluntarily. Even if the majority of owners were to vote to join the trust, as long as there are weeks owners who object, wouldn't that make the motion to join moot?

 

[Dean]

I'm not so sure that could potentially happen. Once a deeded week is owned it is owned unless the owner relinquishes it voluntarily. Even if the majority of owners were to vote to join the trust, as long as there are weeks owners who object, wouldn't that make the motion to join moot?

I'm not sure what the limits might be. My guess would be a super majority, usually 60%, would be required but I do see how it could be problematic. Of course they could simply do what they're doing now but make the conversions trust inventory instead, that I know they can do.

 

[dioxide45]

What about those resorts that have limited deeds. There is something in our MGV deed about it expiring in 2056 unless extended. I guess at that point though the buildings would just need to be torn down to start all over.

 

[Dean]

What about those resorts that have limited deeds. There is something in our MGV deed about it expiring in 2056 unless extended. I guess at that point though the buildings would just need to be torn down to start all over.

I didn't know GV was a RTU property. Is that for all or just part. From a conversion standpoint, I'd think RTU or leasehold would be easier to convert to a trust than truly deeded properties. For RTU such as DVC, the ownership reverts to the developer and they can do anything they want including resell (timeshares or condo's), tear down, rentals, etc.

 

[dioxide45]

I didn't know GV was a RTU property. Is that for all or just part. From a conversion standpoint, I'd think RTU or leasehold would be easier to convert to a trust than truly deeded properties. For RTU such as DVC, the ownership reverts to the developer and they can do anything they want including resell (timeshares or condo's), tear down, rentals, etc.

It isn't RTU, it has deeded weeks just like all other domestic Marriott properties. I think this exists on most Marriott deeds, just the dates bay be differet.

...each estate being succeeded by the next in unending succession governed by the Declaration of Condominium until 10:00 a.m., on the first Saturday in 2056, at which date said estate shall termination unless extended in accordance with the provisions of the Declaration of Condominium.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

Some good news to report today!!!!

Cashed in the two Waiohais 5/28 and converted to a 3bedroom OF at Kauai Lagoons 5/28 and kept the "change"!!! Will use the extra points for some short stays somewhere down the road!!!! Did not wait list, just called in 30 minutes ago!!!

This was most likely "Trust" Inventory!!!! Looks like in this case, legacy points=trust points!!!!

This success story is so that I may be an equal opportunity poster. Report the good as well!!!!

 

[GregT]

Puck, that is great news!

Congrats on getting KL and I'm glad to see that trust inventory available to legacy points.

All the best,

Greg

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . One thing I don't think I've seen discussed (might have missed it) is that if enough owners convert at a given resort, there is the possibility of later having the owners vote to actually join the trust. Maybe this will be the new change we're talking about 10 years from now. I'm not saying this will happen, only that it is a possibility.

I don't think this is true. The Trust inventory is based upon the Developer adding to it (according to the Multisite Public Offering document. The number of Trust points = the number of points for sale. They probably won't add to the Trust until they have sold most of the existing points.

 

[Dean]

I don't think this is true. The Trust inventory is based upon the Developer adding to it (according to the Multisite Public Offering document. The number of Trust points = the number of points for sale. They probably won't add to the Trust until they have sold most of the existing points.

I know other systems are able to convert fixed weeks to trust inventory so in theory it's possible. While the floating week system adds some complexity, I don't see how it would throw a total roadblock.

 

[m61376]

good morning...

Some good news to report today!!!!

Cashed in the two Waiohais 5/28 and converted to a 3bedroom OF at Kauai Lagoons 5/28 and kept the "change"!!! Will use the extra points for some short stays somewhere down the road!!!! Did not wait list, just called in 30 minutes ago!!!

This was most likely "Trust" Inventory!!!! Looks like in this case, legacy points=trust points!!!!

This success story is so that I may be an equal opportunity poster. Report the good as well!!!!

Congrats! I know it is what you wanted. Glad to see that they release some of the trust inventory into the exchange pool. However, especially since it was not available the other day and given others' experiences, I don't think we can conclude that legacy points=trust points.

It does indicate that they are at least making some of the trust inventory available to the exchange pool. Most likely as there are more trust owners there will be more intermingling of inventory.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening

Thanks for the kind words...

I agree... that is why I put the "in this case..." primer. It is a very encouraging development however...

My guru explained it to me... The trust inventory became available as trust members used Exchange inventory. It does not mean Legacy members have unfettered access to the Trust, but there will be a comingling as the system matures

Keep in mind that some of the non confirmations we have seen here were for single fixed weeks. I asked for Frenchmans Cove spring break week (a legacy plat plus fixed week). Brian asked for spring break at Marco (a trust fixed weex) but sold to legacy owners.

Just trying to be fair and post BOTH sides!!!

I think Perry said it best, "Just a new system with new rules to be exploited by smart TUGGERS"

 

[hotcoffee]

. . . My guru explained it to me... The trust inventory became available as trust members used Exchange inventory. It does not mean Legacy members have unfettered access to the Trust, but there will be a comingling as the system matures. . . .

There will no doubt be co-mingling over time, but I doubt there was much co-mingling on the 26th due to points owners exchanging. I don't think there are enough points owners with enough points yet to have much such effect on the exchange inventory. I suspect that Marriott itself moved some inventory around. Since, most of the Trust inventory is still unaccounted for in sold points, it is just sitting there unused. It would make sense for Marriott to use some of it to make the points program more successful.

I still believe that Marriott will allow access to unsold inventory both inside and outside of the Trust. My points rep still insists it will be so.

 

[jimf41]

. I asked for Frenchmans Cove spring break week (a legacy plat plus fixed week).

Spring break is an ordinary Plat week at MFC. The 3 Plat plus weeks are 7, 51 and 52.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening

jim.. thanks for the correction...

yikes...

the first time my guru was incorrect...

sorry for the bad info...

can't slip up for a second around these parts...