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*** NEW *** : Starwood is starting a new points program

tschwa2

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One spin I could see happening would be the SO's might transfer on resale. But my guess is it would come with something akin to the Junk fees of $2000+ that Marriott Destination points have. Once a unit is in the trust I don't see it being able to be moved in and out of the trust and I think the trust will have the SO's built in.

Isn't it fun to theorize.
 

DeniseM

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What good are the points if what you want isn't available??

Starwood will make a lot of money…

Sales people will make a lot of money…

A lot of owners/newbies will buy something they don't understand, and don't need….

Bright Side: It may cause the resale value at these resorts to increase - maybe...
 

suzannesimon

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This is one way for Starwood ( and Marriott) to sell all those unsold off-season weeks as points. People buy the points and then discover that all they can get is hurricane season. If they buy a lot of points, then they'll be able to get 2 weeks in hurricane season.
 

Ken555

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Which five properties are being included? I see mention several times in this thread of five, but not which five...


Sent from my iPad
 

DeniseM

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Per the OP:
I just attend an update at vistana last week. We did not get the "hard sell" -thankfully. We did learn of the new way they are selling SVV SVR SDO SBP and Sheraton Jensen Beach.
 

pacman777

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I think this new trust approach is may be bad news for deeded owners of other mandatory resorts outside of FThe trust as it will be very difficult to exchange into these sheraton properties at 8 months for the peak seasons (eg Summer when school is out). But then again I probably wouldn't do a staroptions exchange for a FL resort just because I can probably rent my home resort for more than what I could book via SPG or rent from red week for any of the resorts currently in the trust. I would be more worried if SVN took this approach for the better properties such as The Hawaii properties, WLR, WSJ and HRA
 

SMHarman

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For the 5 resorts (assuming those were the only ones included), I'm not too worried of any impacts. Those are lesser demand resorts in the portfolio anyway. I do wonder if this will be extended to other resorts -- maybe this is to test the waters to some extent.

The challenge for Starwood is that they do not have ROFR with the exception of a few resorts. This will present larger challenges to them should they extend to other properties.

I don't think the every week is the same approach will work too well. With those properties, they will end up with the same leftovers that they usually do but maybe the trust will buy the underlying deeds accordingly.

-ryan
ROFR is not a problem they just hoover them up on eBay at $1 a piece.
 

blondietink

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My understanding of real estate trusts in fairly limited, but it seems that all owners interested in going into the trust would have to pay for the titles to be transferred into the trust and news deeds would need to be written/signed. Starwood would be the trustee of the trust and could move property in and out of the trust at will without consent of the owners of the deeds, I think. Therefore, the trustee (Starwood) would be able to refuse people to move deeds in or out of the trust, therefore exercising a type of ROFR for non-mandatory resorts, driving up the resale price on the open market.

What I see is a money maker to Starwood. They will of course charge a lot more to do this legal work that it should actually cost if you filled out the forms and filed them yourself. Also, mailing fees could be added in for all of the new documents going back and forth. Who knows what added fees they will tack on needed to run the trust?
 

VacationForever

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My understanding of real estate trusts in fairly limited, but it seems that all owners interested in going into the trust would have to pay for the titles to be transferred into the trust and news deeds would need to be written/signed. Starwood would be the trustee of the trust and could move property in and out of the trust at will without consent of the owners of the deeds, I think. Therefore, the trustee (Starwood) would be able to refuse people to move deeds in or out of the trust, therefore exercising a type of ROFR for non-mandatory resorts, driving up the resale price on the open market.

What I see is a money maker to Starwood. They will of course charge a lot more to do this legal work that it should actually cost if you filled out the forms and filed them yourself. Also, mailing fees could be added in for all of the new documents going back and forth. Who knows what added fees they will tack on needed to run the trust?

Starwood trust is like Marriott trust (destination club points). Buyers of the "trust" do not move deeds in and out, nor buy deeds. Starwood mainly designate their new program that way. Starwood holds the deeds of what they "own"/"acquired" and put them into the trust.
 

Ken555

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pedro47

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More money from you/owners to buy into a new program.
 

suzannesimon

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And if it is anything like Marriott, the Deed owner has priority over the points owner in unit assignment. A Points owner is considered an Exchanger, but they are ahead of II Exchangers in pecking order.
 

SueDonJ

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A few basic things about Marriott's Points system, just in case a comparison might be helpful:

Buyers of Marriott's Destination Club Points do have deeds; they buy deeded interests in the DC Trust (which consists of conveyed Weeks that Marriott had not previously sold or that Marriott has since re-acquired.) Trust conveyances are ongoing and it's not true that the Trust is comprised of only the least-demand intervals. Deeded Trust interests are the same as deeded Weeks in that they can be passed to heirs and re-sold. Annual MF's for deeded interests are determined on a per-interest basis.

Owners of eligible Marriott Weeks can choose to enroll them in the DC Program but doing so doesn't involve a new purchase or any changes to the Weeks deeds - it's basically an overlay exchange system with some other unique usage options. (In fact, Marriott hasn't instituted a program whereby Owners can elect to permanently exchange Weeks for Points.) Once enrolled, Owners can choose to convert a Week to Points on an annual basis. There's a one-time enrollment fee and various incentives for enrollment. Weeks Owners whether enrolled or not pay annual MF's based on the individual resorts' operating budgets. Usage remains the same for un-enrolled Weeks and for enrolled Weeks during the years in which Owners don't choose to convert the Week(s) to Points.

Trust Members (purchasers of Trust Interests/Points) and Exchange Members (Owners of enrolled Weeks) also pay an annual Club Dues fee which covers most transactions in both the Marriott account and an II corporate account. The annual Points Chart closely resembles DVC's (Disney) program with each stay costing various amounts of Points depending on the resort, dates of stay and the particular unit size/view desired.

In addition to the Trust, at the outset Marriott established the DC Exchange Company which is the mechanism for mingling all available inventory so that Trust and Exchange Members can gain access to it. With a nod to the caveat that availability is always an issue in any floating timeshare system, Points and Weeks Owners are generally happy with Marriott's new system. The dire predictions of Trust Members taking all the good stuff and Weeks Owners being left in the dust, or the opposite of Trust Members not being able to access any good stuff, have not played out.

There's a lot more to it, of course, but those are the basics. It'll be interesting for you Starwood folks at the beginning but hopefully, your new program is rolled out with much more help from Starwood than Marriott gave us. We got a new home page on our online accounts and links to all the legal documents to get us started. :eek:

Good luck!
 
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blondietink

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So ...... if I elect to keep my SVV as is and not put it in the trust, who gets priority when making a reservation using my Star Options? The people whose units are in the trust, or my SO's? Right now we never travel during peak season, but you never know. I also don't see us staying at any of the resorts being put in the trust other than what we own.
 

DeniseM

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So ...... if I elect to keep my SVV as is and not put it in the trust, who gets priority when making a reservation using my Star Options? The people whose units are in the trust, or my SO's? Right now we never travel during peak season, but you never know. I also don't see us staying at any of the resorts being put in the trust other than what we own.

No one knows - we don't have anything official yet. This is all SPECULATION.
 

DavidnRobin

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No one knows - we don't have anything official yet. This is all SPECULATION.

Never stopped us before...

Buy where you want to go - and the view you want
Think I'll keep mine the same, thanks anyway...
 

sjsharkie

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ROFR is not a problem they just hoover them up on eBay at $1 a piece.

Uhh, I think you misread my post. I clearly said this was a problem if they were to extend to other properties.

Good luck hoovering up WKV at $1 piece. All you will get will be silver weeks at best.

-ryan
 

DeniseM

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Speculation is very entertaining - just don't want anyone to get the idea that we KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! :D
 

SueDonJ

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Speculation is very entertaining - just don't want anyone to get the idea that we KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! :D

We had a Speculation thread on the Marriott board that ran almost 3,000 posts before they introduced Points, then dozens of threads immediately after. You guys have some catching up to do. :D
 

GregT

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We had a Speculation thread on the Marriott board that ran almost 3,000 posts before they introduced Points, then dozens of threads immediately after. You guys have some catching up to do. :D

I remember those days....the speculation thread was fun. The reality thread was not so fun.
 

Sea Six

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Otherwise know as: "we'd rather not expand and offer new resort inventory. Instead, we'd rather churn the accounts of existing owners and oversell the existing resorts."

In a sense inventory could be unlimited then // How high can you pile sand??

What good are the points if what you want isn't available??

Got it!!

Overselling is my concern as well. More people with more StarOptions will make it harder to trade into ALL Starwood properties, not just these 5.
 

VacationForever

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I don't find paying huge dollars worthwhile for the privilege of reserving at 12-month mark at these 5 resorts. It costs about $48K for $148K SOs. You can pick up SBP, SDO, SVR and SVV for cheap (don't know much about Jensen Beach) on eBay. Let's just say I don't get...
 

YYJMSP

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So ...... if I elect to keep my SVV as is and not put it in the trust, who gets priority when making a reservation using my Star Options? The people whose units are in the trust, or my SO's? Right now we never travel during peak season, but you never know. I also don't see us staying at any of the resorts being put in the trust other than what we own.

I would assume that effectively there would be two classes of SO's, those against units in the trust, and those against units not in the trust. You'd be competing against the others in the same class for those units, not across classes. If they allow cross class bookings with SOs, they'd have to make sure that the same number of SOs are done in both directions to keep the inventory even -- so you can only use your trust SOs to something outside the trust if someone used their non-trust SOs to get to something in the trust...
 

alexadeparis

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So ...... if I elect to keep my SVV as is and not put it in the trust, who gets priority when making a reservation using my Star Options? The people whose units are in the trust, or my SO's? Right now we never travel during peak season, but you never know. I also don't see us staying at any of the resorts being put in the trust other than what we own.


Here's my guess and it is PURE SPECULATION AKA W.A.G. (Wild Ass Guess) based on what happened with Marriott Destination Points and Wyndham Club Access Points.

There will most likely be two pools of inventory for those trust resorts, 1) from straight-up weeks owners (those with staroptions and those without) that bought before the trust (or those resales) that will never convert 2) trust owners that "upgrade" (and then in the process those former holdings will be resold in trust form).

When you reserve your straight-up week you will get inventory only from the weeks side, even if you are reserving with your staroptions derived from that week. If you reserve from the trust side, you can only book what's in the trust inventory, with no crossover between the two. Very similar to the way the Wyndham system works, if you have old style points, you only have Advanced Reservation Priority (ARP) at your home resort, but points are good anywhere in open booking within weeks inventory; with the newer Trust points in Wyndham, you get ARP from a whole list, but those different pools of points are not combinable to get ARP or open booking in the trust inventory from the old style points.
 
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suzannesimon

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Does anyone have any idea why they wouldn't adjust the points received for the various seasons? It seems odd to me that you can get a New Year's week for the same amount of points as an October week.
 
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