New poll: 65% of Americans unlikely to buy EV's; 29% likely

[CalGalTraveler]

Those are both capital costs, not ongoing costs.

True but you speak of your purchase in terms of depreciation in both examples. Wouldn't purchase price have an impact on the next car selection decision? At some point you will need to replace your 12 YO vehicle.

 

[LannyPC]

Interestingly, when they polled the same question in April, 40% said they were likely to buy an EV, so the popularity seems to be in decline.

But did they poll the same people?

 

[LannyPC]

That still doesn't solve a major problem for long trips. It takes 30-60 minutes to charge for 400 miles. I can fill my tank in 5 minutes and get 400 miles.

Like that old saying, "Time is money."

 

[LannyPC]

Most people who own an EV won't go back to 100% ICE again.

Interesting statement but how do you know that?

 

[Monkeyboy]

Interesting analysis. Have you factored in the 30%* Federal Tax Credit for purchase of an EV?

In addition have you evaluated installing solar at 30%* Federal Tax credit? Texas surely would provide a lot of free kw sunshine for recharging at home.

* AFAIK it is 30% but haven't purchased recently so could vary. I presume TX doesn't provide any state incentives given its heavy ties to oil industry.

Per SEIA the state of Tx is the # 2 producer of solar in US. Looking at the chart its mostly produced by the utility instead of the home owners.

https://www.seia.org/research-resources/top-10-solar-states-0

 

[LannyPC]

Nothing is free. You just need to determine who is paying the freight.

Kind of like those "free" gifts you get for attending a TS sales presentation?

 

[Ken555]

Like that old saying, "Time is money."

Is time/money your only consideration when choosing your next car?

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[LannyPC]

Is time/money your only consideration when choosing your next car?

It is one consideration but by no means my only consideration. The person whom I quoted above, I was just merely agreeing with one of his points why he would choose a gas-engine car over an EV.

 

[adam2013]

Is time/money your only consideration when choosing your next car?

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In my situation, time/money is a major consideration when I choose a car. My son drives from his place in Arlington Virginia to University of Virginia in Charlottesville to see his GF three times a week. Just that alone will cost him about $3200/year on gas with his 2023 RAV4.

Since he takes my Tesla and because I get a free charge from work, that cost goes down to zero. He can drive the Tesla from Arlington to Charlottesville and back on a full charge.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Per SEIA the state of Tx is the # 2 producer of solar in US. Looking at the chart its mostly produced by the utility instead of the home owners.

https://www.seia.org/research-resources/top-10-solar-states-0

That's great. That should help reduce energy costs and foreign oil dependence, AZ has quite a bit of solar in their utility too.

 

[Superchief]

Actually, that's most people and most geographies. Most Americans live in an urban/suburban environment. They make relatively short trips which can be there-and-backed on a single charge. And then they can plug in at home. If there's solar on the roof, that makes even more sense. Most people don't take many long road trips in a year. And if we had a more robust charging network, fill-ups/top-ups/partials could be accomplished during lunch, hotel stays and similar.

The "I hate electricity" crowd is forcing their demands on a public who would be better served without combustion engines. The people who live 200 miles from anywhere can continue to do whatever makes sense for them. But they're in the slimmest minority.

I live in Cincinnati, a middle sized urban/suburban environment. There is a big difference between Cincinnati and LA due to climate, alternative transportation availability, and we have lots of hills. EV's are a long way from making sense in our area. Many other mid-size cities face similar problems. I would estimate less than 10% of residents here plan to buy an EV for their next vehicle. Hybrids make a lot more sense. Even Toyota recognized that the hybrids are likely to be in higher demand than EV's for a long time.

 

[Superchief]

1) Every ICE vehicle that is removed from the road in Calif or elsewhere benefits everyone in less EV fertile areas. Why?

a) less demand for oil will bring prices down or stabilizes for less EV fertile markets. (Supply/Demand).

b) It contributes to USA energy independence and security by demanding less oil from the Middle East and other unstable parts of the world.

2) AFAIK no one is being forced to buy an EV. Hybrids and ICE are available. When it makes economic sense people will convert. If not, they won't. Simple economics.


Yes, I forgot it was 2 years. Thanks. FWIW it doesn't move the needle much if I update because it is a small difference compared to other savings. But good to note.

As I said earlier, EV's make more sense in CA than in most other states. The US has plenty of oil available that will last for years if the current administration restriction policies are reduced. There are oil deposits identified in Alaska that would meet current US oil demand for 50 years. This will provide plenty of supply and energy independence for several decades while other energy sources are being developed and refined. California and a few other states are forcing car companies to only sell EV's by 2035, so people in those states will be forced to convert. I'm in support of reducing gas consumption, but this can also be accomplished with hybrids and higher mileage cars. It is just as important to maintain our forests and farmland to convert CO2 to oxygen.

The problem with politicians is they try to force conversion during their term in office rather than allowing technology to take the necessary time to develop and be refined.

 

[Superchief]

Interesting statement but how do you know that?

Hertz seems to recognize that most of its customers don't want to drive EV's at this time.

 

[ScoopKona]

Hertz seems to recognize that most of its customers don't want to drive EV's at this time.

Hertz specializes in long-road-trip and "I have no idea where I am" trips.

Most people would do better financially with an EV. I don't have one -- because I need a work truck which can tow a 2 ton mulcher up 45-degree slope. That isn't happening anytime soon with EV. But I'm buying SOMETHING for milk runs because it's financially stupid not to.

The big difference is that I'm not averse to other modes of transportation. In that respect, I'm much like my great-great grandparents -- who were overjoyed to be rid of horses, feed, vets, carriages, carriage houses, and ankle-deep excrement everywhere. They embraced the change because they were keen to be rid of the dirtier, less-efficient, more-annoying form of transportation.

 

[DrQ]

Probably service like brakes , filters, oil and belts but most don't sell enough ev's to have a full time ev tech to run diagnostics or do repairs on the electrical systems.

Bill

Wrong ... If they sell EVs, they have to purchase the equipment to service EVs. If a dealer wants to sell a line of EVs, they need to invest in hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and infrastructure ( connection to the grid for chargers).

That was why there were few dealers that sold EVs in Texas until recently. When I bought my Bolt EV in 2019, the only EVs available in Texas was Tesla, Chevy Bolt EV and the Nissan LEAF. There were other EVs on the market, but they were only sold on the west and east coast. Now Hyundai, Genesis and KIA have dealerships selling EVs in our area.

Chevrolet has made a big push to sell hybrid (Volt) and EV vehicles in our area. I can name three dealerships within 15 miles which sell and service EVs and there are probably many more.

As I have said, my EV is a city car and there are more than enough dealers in the area qualified to service it.

 

[easyrider]

Any subsidies for buying a Rolls Royce with an engine swap to a chevy 5.7 Liter engine

I'm not sure of the engine swap but here is still a tax credit for vehicles weighing over 6000 pounds and under 14,000 pounds. A Rollls might be over 6000 pounds. I think it's caped at $28,000 this year but if you buy a used Rolls for under $28,000 it might be free depending on your deductions & depreciation.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Wrong ... If they sell EVs, they have to purchase the equipment to service EVs.

Nope, they can opt out of the entire ev line up and they can sell used ev's if they want to, but yup, you are probably right on the new stuff. I doubt that most dealers can afford to do these kinds of upgrades after going through the shut downs and supply chain issues.

I do like the way the Bolt looks. It reminds me of a Sonic we rented in Mexico. I looked them up on Car Gurus and they seem like a decent car. What kind of miles per charge do you get ? The range on the adds claim about 240 miles per charge.

Bill

 

[dannybaker]

I think most people won't buy an EV until every gas station has an equal # of charging stations. Every evaluation of them online says they are not great for long-distance because of a lack of charging. Personally, I think my next EV would be a Plug-in Hybrrid EV (PHEV), because there is a gasoline back-up which also charges the battery. For instance, my 2013 Cadillac XTS AWD gets 28mpg highway. An equally-equipped Ford Fusion Energi Platinum or Lincoln MKZ(no longer made) gets 42mpg. That's an additional 190-ish miles per tank!

TS

We had a Tesla model s for the last four years and it was the best car in my life period. We drove cross country for over six months and zero issues charging the vehicle. At home we has a beautiful Lexus gs450 that just sat. We put two tanks of gas in the Lexus each top year. The best part of owning the car is no gas stations. 90 percent of our travel allowed the car to be charged at home. Every morning you have a full tank and a 300 mile range.unfortunately someone ran into my rear end and totaled the car last week.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

As I said earlier, EV's make more sense in CA than in most other states. The US has plenty of oil available that will last for years if the current administration restriction policies are reduced. There are oil deposits identified in Alaska that would meet current US oil demand for 50 years. This will provide plenty of supply and energy independence for several decades while other energy sources are being developed and refined. California and a few other states are forcing car companies to only sell EV's by 2035, so people in those states will be forced to convert. I'm in support of reducing gas consumption, but this can also be accomplished with hybrids and higher mileage cars. It is just as important to maintain our forests and farmland to convert CO2 to oxygen.

The problem with politicians is they try to force conversion during their term in office rather than allowing technology to take the necessary time to develop and be refined.

FYI...A lot can change in a decade and this is only for new cars that are 100% ICE. You can still buy a plug-in hybrid in 2035.

ICE cars that people own will not suddenly be banned. If people still want an ICE car they can buy used or buy ICE out of state. Remember the average age of a car is 12 years so that means that there will still be ICE cars (and classic cars) in the state well beyond 2035. If the tech is not ready they will push out the deadline or change the laws.

BTW...I am not sure about your concern about hills and EVs. I drive over 2 passes to work in my EV. Sure the electricity goes down but if you have regenerative battery power, which most EVs have, it is regained on the downhill and braking. I know my commute so do not have range anxiety when it happens. Suggest if you are thinking about an EV, that you rent one and try it out on local routes and overnight charging at home to see if it works for you. Hybrids are also fine.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Duplicate

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

True but you speak of your purchase in terms of depreciation in both examples. Wouldn't purchase price have an impact on the next car selection decision? At some point you will need to replace your 12 YO vehicle.

But at what point? Next year? 5 years from now? 10 years? It's unknown at this point. Lithium batteries wear out, a hard fact. And they are very expensive to replace. That is why I expensed them. The car proper may last much longer (depending on climate and other factors) longer than the mechanicals. That's why you have classic cars. (Keep the body, rebuilt the mechanicals.) That is why I included the depreciation as a separate entry for my ICE car. How long will I keep it? At that point, the whole car is written off, but a BEV may last many, many years longer with a battery swap out(s). So I can't depreciate the whole car, only the batteries, which have a KNOWN lifespan limitation.

As to tax credits - that's assuming you pay taxes. Nowadays, I don't pay income tax. (This year is an exception; I came out of retirement for a few months.) 100% legal - much of my retirement comes out of Roth IRAs, the rest is small enough that I don't exceed the standard deduction.

As far as solar is concerned, where I live has a major hailstorm roughly every 10 years. Replacing roofs are expensive enough, without having to add a new solar rig each time. (and solar panels wear out, too, and have to be disposed of. More waste.) Plus how do you allocate the expense of solar to your car, vs other uses. (and at a .12 to .14 rate).

I'm not dissing BEV, per se, but in many places in the US, the case for them is not clear cut. I consider the current battery tech marginal, both from a capacity and from a safety aspect. Better, and cheaper batteries would shift the scale. Check back with me in 5 years.

 

[DRH90277]

Wouldn't you think they could spiffy up the bland Tesla. It seems techy folks have no feel for comfort, color, or style. This car gives technology a bad image.

Is Tesla the only car "Developed by Engineers for use by Accountants?"

 

[CalGalTraveler]

But at what point? Next year? 5 years from now? 10 years? It's unknown at this point. Lithium batteries wear out, a hard fact. And they are very expensive to replace. That is why I expensed them. The car proper may last much longer (depending on climate and other factors) longer than the mechanicals. That's why you have classic cars. (Keep the body, rebuilt the mechanicals.) That is why I included the depreciation as a separate entry for my ICE car. How long will I keep it? At that point, the whole car is written off, but a BEV may last many, many years longer with a battery swap out(s). So I can't depreciate the whole car, only the batteries, which have a KNOWN lifespan limitation.

As to tax credits - that's assuming you pay taxes. Nowadays, I don't pay income tax. (This year is an exception; I came out of retirement for a few months.) 100% legal - much of my retirement comes out of Roth IRAs, the rest is small enough that I don't exceed the standard deduction.

As far as solar is concerned, where I live has a major hailstorm roughly every 10 years. Replacing roofs are expensive enough, without having to add a new solar rig each time. (and solar panels wear out, too, and have to be disposed of. More waste.) Plus how do you allocate the expense of solar to your car, vs other uses. (and at a .12 to .14 rate).

I'm not dissing BEV, per se, but in many places in the US, the case for them is not clear cut. I consider the current battery tech marginal, both from a capacity and from a safety aspect. Better, and cheaper batteries would shift the scale. Check back with me in 5 years.

You are very fortunate not to have to pay taxes. We unfortunately are not so lucky so any credits are welcome.

Perhaps Texas has solved the risks of solar you identified by putting it in the utility?

Our solar panels have a warranty of 25 years by Mitsubishi. They are added to homeowners insurance in case of hail or other damage.

 

[Ken555]

As to tax credits - that's assuming you pay taxes.

As mentioned earlier, you may receive the full tax credits available via leasing the EV. Currently when leasing the tax credits benefit the dealer/manufacturer and they are passing that savings on to the consumer. In some cases it is less expensive to lease and then purchase the car in full, which in many instances may be done anytime after the lease begins.


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[LannyPC]

Hertz seems to recognize that most of its customers don't want to drive EV's at this time.

There are some differences though between renting a car and owning one. If you're renting a car for just a few days, then the savings in gas will be minimal and I'm assuming that a lot of these renters are used to driving ICEs so there would be no real advantage to renting an EV for such a short period of time.