New elite 5 star

[myip]

do you think that eventually our weeks will also be worth more spg points?

Your weeks usually worth more than spg points. A 2 bedroom vs 5 nights of hotel room - may be you get lucky for upgrade. You need to look at which hotel that you use your points with. Cancun get 72000 spg points - maintenace fees is probably around 1400. You have to get hotel room rate over $300 per night to make sense since you will only get 5 nights.

 

[SDKath]

Well, if you were within you 10 day period of purchase, you'd be hearing RESCIND echoed throughout the entire TUG community! But how about this for a plan:

Try to sell 2 of your Cancun properties now (or when you get the paperwork). Since it's still brand new and there is a lot of excitement, you'd probably lose only about $5000 on each. Since you still get to keep all the Starpoints from the purchase, you're "even." Look at Redweek.com. There are a couple resales already. But you can adversite in local papers too where there is less "bargain hunting".

Then buy a resale at a mandatory resort (ie Maui) and then another developer purchase at a mandatory resort (need to be quick as there aren't many left). Requalify the Hawaii purchase with the dev. purchase. You are 5* elite once more, have a more "diversified" portfolio of properties in different locations, and protect your investment by owning mandatory resorts rather than all voluntary.

Katherine

 

[tonyh]

Try to sell 2 of your Cancun properties now (or when you get the paperwork). Since it's still brand new and there is a lot of excitement, you'd probably lose only about $5000 on each. Since you still get to keep all the Starpoints from the purchase, you're "even." Look at Redweek.com. There are a couple resales already. But you can adversite in local papers too where there is less "bargain hunting".

It's hard to imagine one can recuperate more than 50% of the price paid for these Cancun properties by selling them (Princeville may be in a different catagory). SPG Platinum is valuable (I'm working on one myself) but its value varies depending on how much and how well one travels. As others have pointed out on this board, timeshares are not investments. Starwood timeshares are no exceptions. The OP has clearly overpaid but most of us made the same mistake (before we found TUG).

 

[pointsjunkie]

Well, if you were within you 10 day period of purchase, you'd be hearing RESCIND echoed throughout the entire TUG community! But how about this for a plan:

Try to sell 2 of your Cancun properties now (or when you get the paperwork). Since it's still brand new and there is a lot of excitement, you'd probably lose only about $5000 on each. Since you still get to keep all the Starpoints from the purchase, you're "even." Look at Redweek.com. There are a couple resales already. But you can adversite in local papers too where there is less "bargain hunting".

Then buy a resale at a mandatory resort (ie Maui) and then another developer purchase at a mandatory resort (need to be quick as there aren't many left). Requalify the Hawaii purchase with the dev. purchase. You are 5* elite once more, have a more "diversified" portfolio of properties in different locations, and protect your investment by owning mandatory resorts rather than all voluntary.

Katherine

you are kidding . i hope.he will take a major loss, loose 5* and have all that aggravation. at 32 he got to be where he wants to be and he made a wise decision for himself. if he can cough up $179000, money is not an issue and he will get 50-60 years use and that's without giving it to kids. i wish we had these options when we were in our 30's.

good move!!

 

[SDKath]

you are kidding . i hope.he will take a major loss, loose 5* and have all that aggravation. at 32 he got to be where he wants to be and he made a wise decision for himself. if he can cough up $179000, money is not an issue and he will get 50-60 years use and that's without giving it to kids. i wish we had these options when we were in our 30's.

good move!!

Still, you don't have to make mistakes with money, even if you are young. What if a hurricaine hits? All the eggs are in one basket. No need to be foolish because you're in your 30s and have time to take losses. But that's another topic in it's entirety. Just presenting another option for the OP.

Katherine (age 35)!

 

[LisaRex]

Timeshares are not investments. If you paid cash (as opposed to financing) and plan to use the weeks you bought (though, honestly, I don't know any 32 year olds that have 5 weeks of vacation, except teachers; and no teachers that I know of have $180k at their disposal), then you made a fine choice. I wouldn't go so far as to call it "wise" because it's never wise to sink your money into a non-appreciating asset. But by that reasoning, we'd all be driving second hand cars. So IF you can afford it and it makes you happy, then there's nothing wrong with it.

But if you CAN'T really afford it, then it honestly was a stupid thing to do. There are some essential items that should be taken care of before such frivolities, such as absolutely no credit card debt, 6 months of liquid savings should you lose your job, fully funded 529 accounts, and most importantly, a fully funded 401k for your age. You absolutely do not want to lose out on those years and years of compounded interest for retirement by diverting that money into timeshares. Because timeshares depreciate; retirement accounts grow.

As far as StarPoints go, Starwood does occasionally increase the number of StarPoints needed to book rooms but doesn't adjust our StarPoint conversion rate to keep the pace of the inflation. So while our MFs will increase over time, the number of StarOptions (and by extension, the number of StarPoints) we get remains static. So you'll be able to enjoy fewer and fewer non-timeshare vacations. The good news is that Starwood does have some nice properties.

Also, keep in mind that Platinum for Life is a bit of misnomer. According to another TUGger, you get Platinum for only as long as you are a 5* elite owner. So you're paying a few thousand bucks in MFs each year for that privilege.

 

[pointsjunkie]

Still, you don't have to make mistakes with money, even if you are young. What if a hurricaine hits? All the eggs are in one basket. No need to be foolish because you're in your 30s and have time to take losses. But that's another topic in it's entirety. Just presenting another option for the OP.

Katherine (age 35)!

now i see where you are coming from. i forgot about those storms in that area. then your post is right on. sorry.

 

[myip]

Still, you don't have to make mistakes with money, even if you are young. What if a hurricaine hits? All the eggs are in one basket. No need to be foolish because you're in your 30s and have time to take losses. But that's another topic in it's entirety. Just presenting another option for the OP.

Katherine (age 35)!

Totally agreed. However, at this point, the original OP can't do much regarding the purchases. Just enjoy it since it is fully paid for ....
Don't look back.. There are folks that spend as much money as you to become 5*.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48116

 

[zinupe]

i'm not sure how timeshares are considered depreciating assets. isn't the whole point to vacation for years to come paying yesterday prices. also, i believe all properties are insured should a hurricane hit.

the reason i bought starwood as opposed to any other program is that i got sick and tired of not wanting to vacation b/c feeling as though i'm wasting 300-500$ a nt most times on a cramped hotel room. now i can vacation with no guilt. also, assuming the platinum is for life, i would imagine the upgrades i get over the next 20-30 years and more would easily make up for the upfront money.

this is especially true given the number of really nice and otherwise expensive starwood hotels in san diego, la, sf, and nyc - places i live (sd) and would like to visit more often for short trips.

i also believe b/c the resorts have the westin/starwood label that timeshare or not, it is in their best interest to keep the properites in upscale condition. b/c unkept conditions mean unhappy customers, which i believe starwood has figured out is not good for them. especially considering the "westin" tag is on the location.

in addition, i think it behooves them for you to convert your points. i imagine at a property such as princeville/cancun that they could rent your condo for far more money than the MF. At minimum, they could get 400-500 a nt at least for a 2br. thereby not only getting your money up front, but also getting other peoples money on the back end.

also, as long as they continue to build properties, it would be a poor business model to not have the properties continue to be high end - as people would quickly figure out conditions.

another thing i was thinking was that buying one week was a waste. if you were going to buy, you might as well try to get the perks. meaning 5 star cuts your maintainance fees, gives you more points, makes travel easier, and opens up the possibility of getting a free suite locally when my wife and i would like to get away.

i live in san diego and there will be two resorts now in palm springs which is less than 2 hours away from me, so a quick getaway there is very feasible. i didn't buy in palm springs because i feel oceanfront property is always a better idea.

finally, in response to the 401k, savings comment. yes! i do have a savings of a little over double what i spent. sure, that money could appreciate in an account, but i felt that at 32, the years of benefit from the weeks of timeshare, 5* status, platinum SPG at a growing hotel company, and ease to vacation w/ my wife and soon to be 2 kids would be invaluable. Also working over 60 hours a week, i needed an outlet at a upscale locale without having the guilt of spending several thousand every

don't get me wrong. it wasn't an easy decision. hence the question on this thread. but i think you can't always think in dollars. overall, after hearing the comments i'm glad i did it. it sounds like at most i overspent by 30-40k realistically. but the hassle of buying resale, requal, and still needing to buy two development properties in the end wasn't worth it for me. especially b/c i don't think the platinum spg option will be around forever. at some point, they will have to cut it out or create a higher level of platinum (???platinum plus plus) certainly i took a risk...but is any safe investment really an investment.

only time will tell. i'll be sure to share it with the tug starwood family as i figure out the answer to that

 

[ck1]

On a side note, when I was in Cancun a few weeks ago they were pouring the driveway for the Lagunamar. It will be the nicest resort there! I hope people like purple. There is a lot of purple on the buildings.

I already have a Christmas ressie-maybe I will see ya there!

Craig K

 

[DavidnRobin]

zinupe - First, welcome to TUG - as you have found out - TUG is a great resource of info and opinions. Some may be tough to hear (in hindsight) - but at least you will get honesty - unlike what spouts from a TS saleperson.

I assume that if you spent $50K on WKORV, then the Cancun units cost you $40K each - for a total of 594K SOs - yikes! What are the MFs for Cancun? The MFs for WPORV are over $2K.

We bought EOY WPORV for $25K, and got 190K SPs, plus requaled a SVO resale to make it to 3* - that would have never happened w/o TUG.

I agree that at this point there would be little to gain in hindsight except for the 'Lessons Learned' aspect. Considering the purchase - a bit of up-front research would have been in order (for this or anything...). For example - taking a few minutes to Google 'Starwood Timeshare' would have bought you to TUG and saved you $$$, or at least got you more for you money. However, at this point - make the best of what you have - both with your TSs and 5*/PFL status - and use it to its fullest. And also enjoy life to it's fullest - because you can't take it with you - sounds like you are off to a great start.

...or as the DMB song goes...
I can't believe that we would lie in our graves -
wondering if we had spent our living days well.
I can't believe that we would lie in our graves -
wondering what we might have been.

 

[zinupe]

MF 1350 in cancun. 38,900 purchase price. 110K starwood points per week

 

[saluki]

MF 1350 in cancun. 38,900 purchase price. 110K starwood points per week

zinupe-

Can convert your 2BR unit to 110,000 Starpoints or are you saying 110K was the incentive point total when you purchased?

 

[stevens397]

zinupe-

If you can afford to buy four timeshares in a relatively short time frame, I'm guessing that you usually like to fly Business Class or First Class. Many of us feel that the best use of Starpoints is Premium cabin air transportation.

Transfer to most airlines and you get a 20% bonus in points, i.e. 20,000 Starpoints = 25,000 miles. So your 750,000 Starpoints would be worth 935,000 miles. If you transfer to Cathay Pacific (like I usually do) you can get over 11 RT Bus Class tickets to Europe on British Airways or American. At about $3,500 per seat, that alone is worth over $40,000.

My strong recommendation, now that you've found TUG, is to go over to www.FlyerTalk.com and check on the Starwood board. You've already got the timeshares and a slew of points. FlyerTalk will teach you how to use them!

In terms of what you paid, done deal. I always assume someone less than I did for the car I'm driving and that some paid more. I'm sure if you paid it, you can afford it, and amortizing the difference over the years you'll own it - well, not worth thinking about it. Just enjoy!

BTW, most of us are jealous!

 

[LisaRex]

i'm not sure how timeshares are considered depreciating assets. isn't the whole point to vacation for years to come paying yesterday prices. also, i believe all properties are insured should a hurricane hit.

If you want a factual answer, then they are considered depreciating assets because buildings are considered a depreciating asset. As buildings age, they deteriorate and it becomes more expensive to upkeep them. (Ask anyone who's ever owned a historical building.) Land, on the other hand, is an appreciating asset. We timeshare owners own the building, but not the land. If and when the upkeep on the buildings becomes too burdensome for owners, the HOA can choose to dissolve, which means that any remaining equity that the owners have in the building will dissolve as well.

Another thing i was thinking was that buying one week was a waste. if you were going to buy, you might as well try to get the perks. meaning 5 star cuts your maintainance fees, gives you more points, makes travel easier, and opens up the possibility of getting a free suite locally when my wife and i would like to get away.

I'm a one week owner. I bought my Starwood timeshare because I love Maui and it was the nicest timeshare property on Maui, IMO. I plan on using it most years, or trading it to visit places I've never been. Once you stay in a villa, with separate bedrooms and bathrooms, plus a kitchen and a washer/dryer, it's very difficult to stay in a "regular" hotel room again.

 

[LisaRex]

By the way, zinupe, if you do plan on staying in Starwood hotels a lot, I'd highly recommend the Starwood AMEX card, if you haven't gotten it already. Cardholders earn 2 StarPoints for ever dollar spent at Starwood and that includes MFs. This is in addition to any extra points you earn being a Platinum member. Just paying your MFs on it will earn you thousands of StarPoints each year.

Currently there's a 25k (15k signup + 10k spending, IIRC) bonus promo. You can find it on FlyerTalk.

 

[RLG]

We timeshare owners own the building, but not the land.

Is this actually true? I thought all the SVO properties, at least in the US, were freehold. Are some of them actually under a ground lease?

Since most of the other "factual" information was incorrect, I assume this is also incorrect, but would feel better if someone that had looked into this knew the answer.

If and when the upkeep on the buildings becomes too burdensome for owners, the HOA can choose to dissolve,

Extensive discussion has occured on TUG about this in relation to timeshares, and the consensus seems to be that for many/most timeshares the dissolution will never happen regardless of how economic it may be.

...which means that any remaining equity that the owners have in the building will dissolve as well.

Incorrect. Normally the result of dissolving the timeshare would be that the HOA would sell whatever interest had been "shared", i.e. either fee simple or a leasehold. The unit owners would split the net proceeds.

If you want a factual answer, then they are considered depreciating assets because buildings are considered a depreciating asset.

I agree with the assertion that timeshares tend to decline in value, but this isn't the reason. Buildings are certainly a "depreciating asset" for tax and accounting purposes. However, very few people believe that the normal case is that a building will consistently decline in actual market value over a long period of time.

There are a number of issues, specific to timeshares, that cause 1/52 of a condo to decline in value even in a market where an identical condo which isn't timeshared would be enjoying substantial increases. They are also discussed in a lot of other places on TUG.

 

[DavidnRobin]

If the HOA dissolves - does the loss of that VOI take away your 5*/PFL status?
{so as not to be PFL anymore...}

Partly kidding...

Serious - for us (in-line w/ the addiction) we have enough resale SOs (148.1K for 2 VOIs) to go with our existing 222K SOs to make it to 5* and therefore PFL relatively easily. If I could negotiate with SVO sales - I wonder what the cheapest yet good return on SO ROI (rent, exchange, and low MFs) to make it worthwhile so we could use after 2011. Meaning to get now with some good valued SVO purchases to get to PFL - such as if they would allow me to requal both of our resales witha purchase of an Aruba 3Bd LO which looks like it could be one of those valuable/unique VOIs.

222K + 148K (resale) = 370K SOs w/ 559K SOs needed for 5* = 189K SOs needed

 

[RLG]

To the OP:

On the one hand, I certainly hope that you didn't finance this large purchase. That's even a worse mistake than overpaying for the units themselves.

On the other hand, if you did finance them, you may be able to negotiate a way out. You can talk to SVO Portfolio Services and attempt to get them to take the units and keep your down payments in return for cancelling the notes. Since you normally can buy resale weeks for *far* less than from the developer, you'd still be ahead even after the loss on cancelling the original purchase.

BTW, your negotiating leverage would be affected by your need for credit in the future. If you anticipate needing to borrow (e.g. for a house purchase), you need to make sure the "cancellation" is not reported to the credit agencies as a "default".

 

[zinupe]

to the post above. how much in reality do you think i could have spent to get 5*. By all calculations, it seems as though it would have still cost me at least 130k.

That doesn't include what the 750k points mean in dollar value. So all in all i'm thinking i probably overpaid by about 30k.

also, the argument above re: depreciating assets and your alluding to it as well point out that perhaps all TS are a waste of money. after all why put money into a depreciating asset.

finally, maybe i'm not seeing it correctly, but SPG platinum alone makes up a significant portion of the cost. afterall, what does a suite in time square NYC run during high season. i'm sure over a $1000 a nt. especiallly considering i've paid 600$ including hotel taxes (20% at some places) for a regular cramped room with no lounge access etc

So if you do the math. 80k points for five nights in a suite probably has an equivalent dollar value of $5000. divide 750,000 by 80000, you get apprx 47,000$. Even a conservative estimate gives you 40k. I've also heard the suites in europe go for well over a thousand.

so although initially i felt a bit insecure, i'm not so sure anymore. quite frankly, i don't have the time to spend searching for a resale, trying to requalify, and hoping platinum SPG will still be around for life.

also, there are no resales i'm seeing on the internet for princeville or cancun. also, you have to ask yourself how in the hell can property at the princeville resort depreciate when you have one of the world's best golf courses and a premier hotel property right next door.

Thats my thought. let me know what you think

 

[zinupe]

btw. nothing was financed.

 

[zinupe]

also, one thing i forgot to mention. buying timeshares is one thing. however, with the Westin name attached, Starwood automatically forces itself to ensure quality. afterall, if their VO's fail, how far behind is the hotel chain. Bad reviews spread just as quick as good reviews.

I believe westin has been around over 80 years... and i haven't stayed in many that i haven't thought was quite nice.

I'd like to know how many westin owners are unhappy with their purchase. i have yet to hear this on this site. and quite frankly, even after hearing all the negativity, i'm still pretty excited about it.

i love the fact i'll never have to pay ridiculous prices to stay in fabulous locations. How could a place like Kauai or Cancun beachfront really go down in value. There is only so much real estate available in locations such as those. i live in san diego and moved from Georgia, so i realize how important location is. So, in order for me to feel i made a bad purchase, i think it would have to boil down to saying TS's period are not worth it. Otherwise 30-40k for me over an earning lifetime that will likely extend for another 30 years will mean very little.

finally, i believe the younger you are the more years you get to enjoy things such as this.

anyhow, just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[tomandrobin]

More power to you! I love my timeshare purchases, no doubt about that. I would love to be able to be 5*. I would need to buy one more resale and buy two EOY units to requalify both of my resale units. But I am going to wait. There is no way I can use another two weeks a year. Renting units are a pain. Plus I have a Disney addiction that consumes my time as much as the Starwood timeshares.

I think you are approaching with the right outlook. You plan on getting the most out of your weeks as you can, as we all should.

 

[capjak]

Starwood prices starpoints at .035 per point but you can only purchase 20,000 per year ($700)

It would be nice to have what you have for vacation and I am sure there will several wonderful resorts opening over the next several years.

Forget about the financials as a timshare purchase is a luxury purchase.

I really like Cancun and that area has nice clear blue water and warm year round. Looks like you'll be spending some time there.

 

[Sir Newf]

Bottom line is...if you and your spouse are sleeping well at night over your decision- then it was great move...if on the other hand, you're loosing sleep- then review some options- there are always options...only you and and your spouse will know for sure if this makes sense for your futures....enjoy