New "deal" from developer orlando svo

[norag]

I agree with you Katherine, That's a lot of people in the system trying to get out of where they are and I get a little nervous as I will now be one of them! if i keep it. I have the exact numbers that will now move over from fountains to svo, but can't find it yet within the 30 plus papers I have in the package. Anyway when I find it I'll post it.
Thanks for all your advice,
Nora

 

[nodge]

The entire offer is in writing, as we signed it in 28 different places! The option to transfer SO to SP is permanent, at 22,000 for 76,000 SO. The ONE TIME INCENTIVE for signing was 132,000.

Maintenance fee for both weeks is $1,246 ($623.45 each) and property taxes are $182 total (for both).

Annual Vistana Plus membership fee is $109 and includes the external exchange company membership.

As per some previous answers above, the Fountains (I and II) and Vistana Beach Club will be listed on SVN as of April 1st.

So... looking for some opinions...: Rescind or Keep?

It sounds like the good folks at Starwood are using their own, pre-cursor to SVN, back-door "Vistana Plus" system to bring those units into SVN. Here is what we know so far about "Vistana Plus."

The biggest question that I would ask BEFORE YOUR RECISION PERIOD EXPIRES is will resale purchasers of these pre-Starwood, “Vistana Plus” properies be allowed join SVN through "Vistana Plus." It's my understanding that "Vistana Plus" privileges transfer on resale, but I may be wrong.

If VP privileges do indeed transfer on resale, why not just buy two resale VR Fountain's units for a couple of hundred bucks each, and then join SVN through the "Vistana Plus" deal when it’s offered starting April 1st?

In the short term, I'd rescind until this all pans out.

-nodge

 

[tomandrobin]

Interesting deal from Starwood.

I think that as long as you are happy with using Vistana Resort, and the staroptions are good, the deal and price sounds fair. Resale is the only downside, but if are in it for the long hual, it doesn't matter.

How many units does Vistana Resort have available for this program?

Those 132,000 starpoints can get you 15 days at the Swan Hotel in Disney during Christmas! Or three rooms for five nights at the Swan for Christmas, better then $2600 value.

 

[grgs]

I'm surprised that the star points are only worth 2 cents a point.

Well, I'm giving the Starpoints a conservative estimate. Depending on how you use them, they could be worth far more (or less). You can read discussion on this ad nauseum over on the Starwood board at flyertalk.com. Right now, with the dollar being so weak, using Starpoints for European hotels seems to be a good use, and would work out to higher than 2 cents/pt. Any idea what you would use the points for? If so, look at the hotel rates for those properties, and figure out what the Starpoints would be worth to you.

Glorian

 

[grgs]

Great point about Kierland 2BR at 148,100 SOs. Price is about $20,000 these days on resale and since it's M, you'll get that critical SO threshold for 2BR exchanges just about anywhere. But no SPs option then. And resale is much better at Kierland.

Personally, I don't think $20,000 is a typical resale price for Kierland. Here are the sales on e-bay that I've tracked:

3/20/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 21000
4/23/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 28799
5/7/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 24090
5/21/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 24000
5/31/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 21600
6/4/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 20800
6/11/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 23000
7/2/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 22323
12/18/2007 2 bd LO EY Platinum 22090
1/21/2008 2 bd LO EY Platinum 20000

The average comes out to $22,770, which I think reflects a more realistic price. Of course, there aren't that many 2 bed plat auctions. Also, the resale sites that I look at (eg/ timeshareaz.com; transactionrealty.com) tend to list these units for $24-25K. Of course, you can always offer less, but I think the prices list at these sites reflect market value with perhaps a modest negotiating cushion. So, until I can verify more sales at $20,000, I'm sticking with my estimate of $22,000.

Glorian

 

[timeos2]

The deal should be there on your schedule

We bought now because the first offering of these units was on Thursday, and by Friday, the price on most had gone up $4,000, from $12,500 to $16,500. So with the realization that we have 10 days to rescind, it seemed like a better move to buy now, and review documentation on April 1st to confirm the developers claims.

152,000 SO per year, plus 132,000 SP (one time offer), Gold Status (SPG) and option to convert SO to SP didn't sound too bad.

Maintenance fees are $623 each. ($1,246 total per year).

Now THIS makes the whole thing very suspect. If they can sell it today for $12,500 then they can sell it on 4/1 for $12,500 - there is no magic in the date that would cause the price to rise $4000. It smacks of pressure sales and, to be honest, the whole deal sounds far too expensive for what you are getting. But only you really know if what you have to pay is a good value to your family for the features they offer. If it was an offer I was given I'd ask for time to review it completely at the original price and, if they said yes and after a full analysis, I would say yes or no on my time schedule not theirs. If they demand an answer today or tomorrow then its a NO for sure.

 

[pointsjunkie]

Thanks Johns and Gary,

The entire offer is in writing, as we signed it in 28 different places! The option to transfer SO to SP is permanent, at 22,000 for 76,000 SO. The ONE TIME INCENTIVE for signing was 132,000.

Maintenance fee for both weeks is $1,246 ($623.45 each) and property taxes are $182 total (for both).

Annual Vistana Plus membership fee is $109 and includes the external exchange company membership.

As per some previous answers above, the Fountains (I and II) and Vistana Beach Club will be listed on SVN as of April 1st.

So... looking for some opinions...: Rescind or Keep?

vistana beach club is now going to be in the svn? that is great news.

 

[GrayFal]

Great point about Kierland 2BR at 148,100 SOs. Price is about $20,000 these days on resale and since it's M, you'll get that critical SO threshold for 2BR exchanges just about anywhere. But no SPs option then. And resale is much better at Kierland.

That said, if you are aiming to eventually go to 5* or want any sort of elite status at all, buying from the developer is key as your SOs will not apply otherwise (even from a M resort) toward elite status.

SPs of 44,000 is 2 nights in at Cat 6 I believe during mid week (20,000SPs for 1 night) so it really is not that much to write home about. But, it opens up some nice options for Hotel travel and Cat 6 is usually super classy.

So far, I am saying stay with it.

Katherine

The other side of this is that OP will have 2 2BR lock-offs = 4 1BR units - so even if she deposited 1 2BR unit as 2 1BRs in II every other year - she could have the best of both worlds - 1 II Starwood exchange a year plus a points reservation....

So Kath, please call your contact at Starwood and see when they are going to offer this deal to the PGA people....or is this section OP mentions, part of our Vistana Group' - the "Vistanna Vacation Club"?
It seems odd they are mentioning "Vistana Beach Club"......got to go take mom for a walk!!!!
see ya lata'!

 

[SDKath]

Pat, they are not LOs from what I see. Just 2BRs! Bummer though. It would be nice if PGA was in it too. Just don't see it happening as there aren't so many 'problems' with PGA (no major upgrade, silver crown rating drop, etc).

Kath

The other side of this is that OP will have 2 2BR lock-offs = 4 1BR units - so even if she deposited 1 2BR unit as 2 1BRs in II every other year - she could have the best of both worlds - 1 II Starwood exchange a year plus a points reservation....

So Kath, please call your contact at Starwood and see when they are going to offer this deal to the PGA people....or is this section OP mentions, part of our Vistana Group' - the "Vistanna Vacation Club"?
It seems odd they are mentioning "Vistana Beach Club"......got to go take mom for a walk!!!!
see ya lata'!

 

[calgarygary]

I am no legal expert but how can Starwood offer SVN membership to new sales at VR Fountains without providing that same benefit to existing owners? If they can't, then resale is still the way to go. If they can, then they have the ability to reduce everybody's interests at every resort by improving the program without including existing owners.

 

[SDKath]

They plan to provide a free upgrade for current owners whose deeds are recorded by tomorrow. I think that's fair to those who have owned there for years and have had "special assessments" to deal with.

Called SVV sales today just for the fun of it. The price is now $16,200 for the same 2BR units with 76,000 SOs. So yes, they raised the prices $4000. Sounds like you were in the right place at the right time!

Kath

 

[grgs]

They plan to provide a free upgrade for current owners whose deeds are recorded by tomorrow. I think that's fair to those who have owned there for years and have had "special assessments" to deal with.

I wonder if other phases of Vistana Resort will be following the same path?

Glorian

 

[norag]

In the Q and A booklet we received it said that other vistana resorts will be brought in once renovations brings them up to SVN standards.

 

[Ken555]

Would this mean that VV would be a good "investment" (into SVN) at this time?

Could SVN be thinking they need more people with Options to trade into the other resorts? Just look at the vacancies at Maui and consider. Of course, changes in the economy can't help the t/s industry at all.

 

[grgs]

Would this mean that VV would be a good "investment" (into SVN) at this time?

I assume you mean VR (or SVR--either it is acceptable according to our "official" acroynm list:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60852).

VV would refer to Vistana Villages for which most phase are mandatory.

Anyway, it could mean these units would be a good "investment," if you're willing to take a chance.

Could SVN be thinking they need more people with Options to trade into the other resorts? Just look at the vacancies at Maui and consider. Of course, changes in the economy can't help the t/s industry at all.

I do think this opens up a new revenue stream for Starwood (new inventory to sell without having to build from scratch; also, conversion fees from existing owners who are allowed to buy their way into SVN). If it is related to current economic conditions, then I would guess they wouldn't do this once the economy rebounds, and sales go up again.

Glorian

 

[Ken555]

Yeah, thanks. VR/SVR, not VV. It's all the same V to me! (as I haven't been there yet)

 

[capjak]

I was looking at the one time incentive of 132,000 pts. I thought that would be worth more than 2600.00.

You can buy starpoints from Starwood for 3.5 cents so 132000 is worth $4600 per starwood (of course this means they are likely making a profit on the purchase of these starpoints)

 

[DISNUT21]

My sales person at starwood who I spoke to on Saturday actually told me that the goal is to make the entire Vistana Resort property a SVN member. It will be done portion by portion at a time... so my guess would be that the Falls section will be next to join the program by summer. What are your thoughts?

 

[DavidnRobin]

I know nothing about this - but please refer to the SVO/TUG Golden Rule.
The one right above the one that states to never pay anyone to sell your TS.

 

[SDKath]

I know nothing about this - but please refer to the SVO/TUG Golden Rule.
The one right above the one that states to never pay anyone to sell your TS.

:hysterical: So true. It basically doesn't mean anything what they say. If some "board of directors" decides to spend $30M on an upgrade and then again decides to "join SVN" than maybe in a year or two one of the other sections will join. Maybe. Until then, anyone purchasing into those sections will be hit with a substantial special assessment for the necessary upgrades to take place.

Kath

 

[pointsjunkie]

I was looking at the one time incentive of 132,000 pts. I thought that would be worth more than 2600.00.

hi i just booked st. john's for 40000 sp and the $ amount is $659 per night and we get the 5th night free. so if i used cash it would come to $3295 and i only used 40000 sp. if used correctly they can be very cost effective.

i also booked 3 rooms at the swan for 5 nights at $400 per night using 120000sp and that would have cost me $6000. do i need to repeat, if used correctly....

 

[pointsjunkie]

having new properties in the svn is a very good thing. starwood is going to be able to get a 5* rating at the resorts and then more people will want to trade into them. in the past svr lost it's top rating and now with the new interiors it will get a much better rating.

i will be glad to have the resort in florida that is on the ocean.

did someone say they will be opening a westin in myrtle breach on the ocean?

 

[tomandrobin]

hi i just booked st. john's for 40000 sp and the $ amount is $659 per night and we get the 5th night free. so if i used cash it would come to $3295 and i only used 40000 sp. if used correctly they can be very cost effective.

i also booked 3 rooms at the swan for 5 nights at $400 per night using 120000sp and that would have cost me $6000. do i need to repeat, if used correctly....

Very nice choice of stays!

 

[stevens397]

I had the same concern as Kath regarding more competition trying to get SVN trades with a dearth of people fighting for Orlando!

But it seems that very, very few of these people will have enough StarOptions to be going for the 2 BRs in good places - they'll be fighting over 1 BRs. May not affect us too much.

 

[nodge]

But it seems that very, very few of these people will have enough StarOptions to be going for the 2 BRs in good places - they'll be fighting over 1 BRs. May not affect us too much.

I agree, even if SVN waves the $599 fee to join, since a 2 BR Fountains(I/II) Vistana Resort unit will only have 76,000 StarOptions, who would be willing to pay an annual $109 "Vistana Plus" fee just for the privilege of being able to give-up their fully updated 2 bedroom villa in Orlando for a studio in Maui?

These folks could get better trades via RCI/II, and only pay an exchange fee when actually exchanging.

Now adding 76,000 StarOptions obtained via a cheap resale purchase to a member's pre-existing SVN account that already has at least 81,000 StarOptions in it is a different story. I'd assume that like the SVN fee, the "Vistana plus" fee is reduced on the second unit (and free on the third or more units).

These additional StarOptions could be just the ticket for bringing an SVN account with 81,000 StarOptions above the magic 148,100 StarOption level needed for a 2 bedroom L/O during peak season at the most desirable SVN locations. Moreover, should someone already have 148,100 StarOptions, these cheap additional 76,000 SO's could bring those folks above the newish 196,900 StarOption threshold needed for peak season three bedroom units in Harborside, St. John, Steamboat, and Aruba (should it ever be built).

I'm tempted to buy a cheap VR Fountains ($300 or less) on speculation just to see what happens.

-nodge