New DC Status Tiers effective 4/30/15

[MALC9990]

I'm thinking one transaction allowed, but that the banked Points will be usable in either of the two years ahead. I agree with dioxide's take in Post #35 here. Hopefully, it's automatic so that if the DC Member designates Points to be banked, they'll be usable anytime during the interim allowed by the tier level status.

Susan, my understanding of the current DC point banking system is that if I bank 2015 points into 2016 then the points now have a new start date of 1/1/2016 and a new end date of 12/31/2016. So, should I suddenly need points in 2015, I then have to borrow some actual 2016 points to make a reservation in 2015.

How would banking 2 years then work. If I bank 2015 points into 2017 - will they only be available to be used in 2017 ? or will the be available for use in 2016 and 2017.

The reason I ask is that in the AP points system, when I bank 2015 points into 2016, all that happens is the end date for the points is moved to the end date of the next year. Which in my case can differ depending on the type of AP points involved. Enrolled weeks turned into points are valid from 1/1/yyyy to 12/31/yyyy but my purchased AP points are valid from 7/1/yyyy to 6/30/yyyy which really makes for complicated points calculations and usage when looking at reserving and/or banking.

 

[SueDonJ]

Susan, my understanding of the current DC point banking system is that if I bank 2015 points into 2016 then the points now have a new start date of 1/1/2016 and a new end date of 12/31/2016. So, should I suddenly need points in 2015, I then have to borrow some actual 2016 points to make a reservation in 2015.

How would banking 2 years then work. If I bank 2015 points into 2017 - will they only be available to be used in 2017 ? or will the be available for use in 2016 and 2017.

The reason I ask is that in the AP points system, when I bank 2015 points into 2016, all that happens is the end date for the points is moved to the end date of the next year. Which in my case can differ depending on the type of AP points involved. Enrolled weeks turned into points are valid from 1/1/yyyy to 12/31/yyyy but my purchased AP points are valid from 7/1/yyyy to 6/30/yyyy which really makes for complicated points calculations and usage when looking at reserving and/or banking.

DC Points work the same way - Points from an enrolled Week have a Jan1-Dec31 Use Year; purchased Trust Points can have any rolling twelve-month Use Year. And under the current rules, banking simply rolls the Use Year ahead one year. So the deadlines and calculations can be as complicated as in the AP system.

What I'm hoping is that the new banking rules will mean that you don't have to designate a one-year use period for banked Points, that it means the new use period will begin one year from the start date of the original Use Year and will extend out through the period designated by tier status. So, for example, if you're eligible for the two-year period and you bank 2015 Points from an enrolled Week, then you can use those for stays anytime between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17. Or if you're eligible for the 1-1/2-year period and you bank Trust Points with a 6/1/15-5/31/16 Use Year, those can be used for any stays between 6/1/16 and 11/30/17.

We'll see soon enough how it will work.

 

[SueDonJ]

Am I reading this correctly? They've removed the additional 10% discount using the Marriott VISA for cash stays?

"Owner Rental Discounts" footnote 2 - "Cannot be used with any other discounts."

Wonder if it's also going going gone with the "MOD" discount?

So far in 2015 I'm batting oh-fer assuming anything with Marriott. Bad for me but good for all of us!

I checked into this with an Owner Services contact and have his permission to post this to TUG:

You will still be able to use the 10% discount with your Marriott Rewards Visa Card. But you could not, for example, have a government rate and add the owner discount on top of that. That is what is meant by the “cannot be combined with other discounts.”

 

[GreenTea]

Thank you for the update on the visa. Great news. I appreciate you finding this information.

 

[vikingsholm]

Not one bit happy about this change. Having had Premier Plus status after shelling out quite a bit before 2010, and then enrolling, the 1+ day at 13 months and 12 months was a real benefit that they claimed was a reward for our higher level patronage.

Now, they've cut the number of points needed in half to get this, the one valuable benefit of Premier Plus. We'll have to see how negatively this impacts that type of availability at desirable locations, but I'm not expecting it will be minor.

The 2 year banking is unnecessary rubbish for us.

Under the bus, for sure. Anything for a fresh buck, it seems.

 

[MALC9990]

DC Points work the same way - Points from an enrolled Week have a Jan1-Dec31 Use Year; purchased Trust Points can have any rolling twelve-month Use Year. And under the current rules, banking simply rolls the Use Year ahead one year. So the deadlines and calculations can be as complicated as in the AP system.

What I'm hoping is that the new banking rules will mean that you don't have to designate a one-year use period for banked Points, that it means the new use period will begin one year from the start date of the original Use Year and will extend out through the period designated by tier status. So, for example, if you're eligible for the two-year period and you bank 2015 Points from an enrolled Week, then you can use those for stays anytime between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17. Or if you're eligible for the 1-1/2-year period and you bank Trust Points with a 6/1/15-5/31/16 Use Year, those can be used for any stays between 6/1/16 and 11/30/17.

We'll see soon enough how it will work.

So I am correct in thinking there is a difference between DC and AP points when banking. When I bank my AP points for 2015 into 2016, I can still use them in 2015 if I change my mind.

 

[Fasttr]

So I am correct in thinking there is a difference between DC and AP points when banking. When I bank my AP points for 2015 into 2016, I can still use them in 2015 if I change my mind.

You are correct....banked DC points move to the next Use Year....once you do that, you can't still use them for the unexpired part of the Use Year you are banking them from.

 

[MALC9990]

You are correct....banked DC points move to the next Use Year....once you do that, you can't still use them for the unexpired part of the Use Year you are banking them from.

Thanks:

That is what I thought was the case. With my MVCI AP Points when banking the end date is extended by 12 months but I can still use them in the current year if I need to. Which is a much more customer friendly approach to banking.

 

[Superchief]

What I'm hoping is that the new banking rules will mean that you don't have to designate a one-year use period for banked Points, that it means the new use period will begin one year from the start date of the original Use Year and will extend out through the period designated by tier status. So, for example, if you're eligible for the two-year period and you bank 2015 Points from an enrolled Week, then you can use those for stays anytime between 1/1/16 and 12/31/17. Or if you're eligible for the 1-1/2-year period and you bank Trust Points with a 6/1/15-5/31/16 Use Year, those can be used for any stays between 6/1/16 and 11/30/17.

We'll see soon enough how it will work.

I totally agree that this would be the preferred policy. This would effectively assign 'expiration dates' to DC points and make it easier for everyone. It would make it easier for people to build up points for dream trips, even using the overpriced Explorer rewards. There would be no more need to decide whether to bank your points prior to determining whether you can reserve a high demand week (like Thanksgiving or Christmas) at your home resort.

I doubt that I will be able to bank my 2014 points into 2016, but I can always hope.

 

[SueDonJ]

I totally agree that this would be the preferred policy. This would effectively assign 'expiration dates' to DC points and make it easier for everyone. It would make it easier for people to build up points for dream trips, even using the overpriced Explorer rewards. There would be no more need to decide whether to bank your points prior to determining whether you can reserve a high demand week (like Thanksgiving or Christmas) at your home resort.

I doubt that I will be able to bank my 2014 points into 2016, but I can always hope.

I'm trying to flesh out a thought, waiting for the bazinga! moment when what I'm thinking falls completely apart, but in the meantime here's the gist. If the extended banking rules do work out this way then you can extend the use periods of all or some of your Points (whether from enrolled Weeks or purchased) over the lifetime of their ownership, but it will require limited or no usage in the first year of the cycle.

Say you have 5,000 DC Points with a calendar Use Year, and you're eligible for the two-year banking period. After the changes go into effect on 4/30 and prior to the 6/30 banking deadline this year, you bank your 2015 Points so that their new use period becomes 1/1/16-12/31/17. Next year you do the same, banking your 2016 Points to their new 1/1/17-12/31/18 use period, then 2017 Points into 1/1/18-12/31/19, etc ... Now every Point you've designated to be banked gains an extra usage period of either six or twelve months depending on the status tier for which you're eligible.

During the first year of the cycle (in my example it would be the 1/1/15-12/31/15 Use Year allotment) you wouldn't have any usage if you bank your entire ownership forward, or you'd have only limited usage if you retain a portion in their original Use Year. That's the first hurdle. The second is that if during any year you don't bank Points forward, you're effectively breaking the cycle and would have to begin it again with another year of non/limited-usage. Third would be that if you're working with enrolled Weeks then in order to keep the cycle going you'll have to commit to converting at least one Week every year to DC Points.

As I said earlier, the timing works for me because we're sitting on unused Weeks/Points with our vacation plans up in the air for the next few years. If you smart people also can't find the bazinga! moment in my thoughts then this may be exactly the route we'll take. So, have at it!

{eta} Bazinga! Geeze, that's probably record timing! Doh! You'd end up with Points that can't be further transacted, right? You couldn't rent them out, that's the specific one that just hit me (although you could still rent out reservations made with banked Points.) What else?

 

[GreenTea]

We got called for a presentation on "The Exciting New Levels." She said we would be at a new level without doing anything. I know from here we won't. Skipping the talk.

 

[Fasttr]

I'm trying to flesh out a thought, waiting for the bazinga! moment when what I'm thinking falls completely apart, but in the meantime here's the gist. If the extended banking rules do work out this way then you can extend the use periods of all or some of your Points (whether from enrolled Weeks or purchased) over the lifetime of their ownership, but it will require limited or no usage in the first year of the cycle.

Say you have 5,000 DC Points with a calendar Use Year, and you're eligible for the two-year banking period. After the changes go into effect on 4/30 and prior to the 6/30 banking deadline this year, you bank your 2015 Points so that their new use period becomes 1/1/16-12/31/17. Next year you do the same, banking your 2016 Points to their new 1/1/17-12/31/18 use period, then 2017 Points into 1/1/18-12/31/19, etc ... Now every Point you've designated to be banked gains an extra usage period of either six or twelve months depending on the status tier for which you're eligible.

During the first year of the cycle (in my example it would be the 1/1/15-12/31/15 Use Year allotment) you wouldn't have any usage if you bank your entire ownership forward, or you'd have only limited usage if you retain a portion in their original Use Year. That's the first hurdle. The second is that if during any year you don't bank Points forward, you're effectively breaking the cycle and would have to begin it again with another year of non/limited-usage. Third would be that if you're working with enrolled Weeks then in order to keep the cycle going you'll have to commit to converting at least one Week every year to DC Points.

As I said earlier, the timing works for me because we're sitting on unused Weeks/Points with our vacation plans up in the air for the next few years. If you smart people also can't find the bazinga! moment in my thoughts then this may be exactly the route we'll take. So, have at it!

{eta} Bazinga! Geeze, that's probably record timing! Doh! You'd end up with Points that can't be further transacted, right? You couldn't rent them out, that's the specific one that just hit me (although you could still rent out reservations made with banked Points.) What else?

I have read this though a few times and I still don't know what point you are making or what you are getting at or trying to do. The dates as you lay them out appear correct, but again, I am not getting your point I guess.

That said, in my humble opinion, unless you are banking for a reason (dream vacation or something), I don't see the reason as a general rule you would want to pay MF's today on a ressie you might not take until 2 years down the road and do that continually as a general approach. It seems like borrowing from future year points is a better approach because you get the vacation now, and pay for it later.

 

[SueDonJ]

I have read this though a few times and I still don't know what point you are making or what you are getting at or trying to do. The dates as you lay them out appear correct, but again, I am not getting your point I guess.

That said, in my humble opinion, unless you are banking for a reason (dream vacation or something), I don't see the reason as a general rule you would want to pay MF's today on a ressie you might not take until 2 years down the road and do that continually as a general approach. It seems like borrowing from future year points is a better approach because you get the vacation now, and pay for it later.

I'm not sure I get it either. It might be just because our plans are so much up in the air that extending the usage life of what we own sounds good right now. But you're right in that it won't appeal to those who have planned usage or those who don't intend to hold on longterm to what they own.

 

[jeepie]

...What else?

Please correct me if I'm wrong...You wouldn't be able to borrow points if you've already banked them. For example, you bank 2017 points at the earliest possible time, then later perhaps you want to borrow enough for a major trip, say in 2016.

 

[Fasttr]

Please correct me if I'm wrong...You wouldn't be able to borrow points if you've already banked them. For example, you bank 2017 points at the earliest possible time, then later perhaps you want to borrow enough for a major trip, say in 2016.

I think in your example, your major trip would have to be in the latter part of 2017, but I get your point. I think at that point, you would just borrow points from your 2018 Use Year.

This is what Malc was getting at...which appears more user friendly in the AP system as you could still use those points during the remainder of the Use Year that you banked them from if you were living in the AP system.

 

[papertraveller]

I am late to learning about this change, so please forgive me.

If I understand this correctly, those who own 4,000 -plus DC points will gain access to the 13+ month advance booking privilege.

Those who own less stick with the old access.

If this has the impact (as I gather it should) of granting earlier access to a larger group of people, those with fewer points will find it more difficult to book the high-demand properties.

Marriott sees this as a sales advantage, because they can try to persuade people at the lower levels to ante up a little more cash to hit the required level of 4,000 points.

Or does it potentially backfire as well? We have 2,500 points, and if we discover that just can't use them, we're not going to add anything more to the product. We'll sell it.

Do I understand correctly how this might impact owners of smaller amounts of points?

 

[dioxide45]

I am late to learning about this change, so please forgive me.

If I understand this correctly, those who own 4,000 -plus DC points will gain access to the 13+ month advance booking privilege.

Those who own less stick with the old access.

If this has the impact (as I gather it should) of granting earlier access to a larger group of people, those with fewer points will find it more difficult to book the high-demand properties.

Marriott sees this as a sales advantage, because they can try to persuade people at the lower levels to ante up a little more cash to hit the required level of 4,000 points.

Or does it potentially backfire as well? We have 2,500 points, and if we discover that just can't use them, we're not going to add anything more to the product. We'll sell it.

Do I understand correctly how this might impact owners of smaller amounts of points?

I don't think owners with small amounts of points are really impacted that much. Chances are they are either using their weeks or exchanging through II. 2,500 points doesn't get you much, you are usually much better to go through II for the best value for the money. If you want a peak week, you can't get it through DC with that few number of points without banking and/or borrowing.

 

[papertraveller]

Thanks -- we have had fair success in managing through banking.

I'm just more concerned about the fact that we could be squeezed out on the availability front if there are always going to be more people ahead of us in the queue.

 

[Fasttr]

I don't think owners with small amounts of points are really impacted that much. Chances are they are either using their weeks or exchanging through II. 2,500 points doesn't get you much, you are usually much better to go through II for the best value for the money. If you want a peak week, you can't get it through DC with that few number of points without banking and/or borrowing.

I read paper's post to mean that they owned 2500 Trust points. If so, perhaps they travel in 1BR's, or rent any additional points they need. Many of us with smaller amounts of points are managing just fine because of the ability to rent points.

That said, I tend to agree with you that at least for the near future, the tier changes will not materially affect available inventory for us little guys, super prime weeks notwithstanding, as it doesn't currently appear they fully spring open the inventory floodgates at the 13 month mark.

 

[GregT]

I'm just more concerned about the fact that we could be squeezed out on the availability front if there are always going to be more people ahead of us in the queue.

I think you will still have reasonable availability, but at 12 months out versus 13 months out, when other owners are starting to get some booking privileges. Because Marriott will hold back some percentage of their inventory for release at 12 months out, there will still be some inventory available.

It will be interesting to see how the ownership experience plays out for all different levels.

Best,

Greg

 

[Fasttr]

I'm just more concerned about the fact that we could be squeezed out on the availability front if there are always going to be more people ahead of us in the queue.

Also, keep in mind, even with 2500 points, you still have access to booking 7+ nights in the 13 month window, it just costs you a 20% point premium to do so. If you are booking a 3000 point ressie as an example, that point premium is only 600 points, or the equivalent of $325 at today's going point rental prices. If it came to that, I would gladly pay $325 extra per year rather than pay $18K plus $700+ in annual MF's to basically get the right to do the same thing based on their new status tiers.

This still leaves open the option of rebooking at 12 months if your ressie is still available, and the 20% premium points would just go into your holding account.

 

[Superchief]

I am anxious to learn the details regarding banking with the new system. Will chairman level DC owners have the opportunity to choose whether to bank each year (2015 to 2016, and later to 2017?), will banking cover a 2 yr. period (bank in 2015 to be used at any time in 2016-2017), or some other option.

How will this impact the ability to rent points? Will owners be able to rent points that have not been banke or only been banked for one year?

I like the flexibility of banking, but the new policies will determine how much our flexibility is enhanced. I currently have more weeks and points than I can use, so this will be very important to me.

 

[billkoelpin]

Fasttr wondering what the real tangible benefit is to purchasing more than 1500 points resale and then scaling up/renting what ever else you need? By mvc lowering the 13mo ressie window it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for someone new to put down that kind of money for 7 or 10,000points with the accompanying maint fee and no ressie advantage. Ok 20% prem but as pointed out it isn't that much more expensive and you could even re-book at 12mo with 0 premium. Am i missing something?

 

[Fasttr]

Fasttr wondering what the real tangible benefit is to purchasing more than 1500 points resale and then scaling up/renting what ever else you need? By mvc lowering the 13mo ressie window it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for someone new to put down that kind of money for 7 or 10,000points with the accompanying maint fee and no ressie advantage. Ok 20% prem but as pointed out it isn't that much more expensive and you could even re-book at 12mo with 0 premium. Am i missing something?

Nope, you're missing nothing...you've nailed it. If you are new to MVC and want to play in the points game, buying 1500 points resale and renting the rest is a legitimate approach based on the rules as they are today and also under the proposed rules associated with the new status tiers. IMO, it takes an ownership level of 7000 points under the new rules which allows for 1+ nights at 13 months to create any real value from a status level perspective, and as you pointed out, that's a lot of $$$ for somebody new to the game to be plunking down to get there.

 

[dioxide45]

Fasttr wondering what the real tangible benefit is to purchasing more than 1500 points resale and then scaling up/renting what ever else you need? By mvc lowering the 13mo ressie window it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for someone new to put down that kind of money for 7 or 10,000points with the accompanying maint fee and no ressie advantage. Ok 20% prem but as pointed out it isn't that much more expensive and you could even re-book at 12mo with 0 premium. Am i missing something?

I don't think you can get the 20% premium of points back at 12 months if you re-book.

Any Exchange Points required to obtain an Advance Priority Reservation (over and above the number of Exchange Points that would be required to reserve the same Accommodations during the Priority 2 Period, Priority 3 Period, or Open Reservation Period) will not be restored to the Member in the event that the Advance Priority Reservation is cancelled by the Member.