New credit card fee

[davidvel]

This thread WAS about credit card fees being charged by an HOA I believe. Not a restaurant, not a food prep fee, not a fee from a merchant. Depending on the card used, the HOA (via its owners) has to pay on every dollar in maintenance fees collected via CC.

Shadow Ridge generally has about 1% in CC fees on dues collected (probably so low as Marriott pays their share directly.) Still, this amounts to about $500,000 EVERY year. Owner then have to pay an additional $50,000 in management fees for these budgeted costs. So if the fees were directly passed to owners using CCs owners would save $50,000 if they were removed form the budget. (No I am sure Marriott would just collect more and keep the fees in the budget for their 10%.)

 

[AJCts411]

My 2 cents worth. For week owners, HSH, as I am sure other resorts have, announced they are going cashless, credit cards only. I doubt the CC company's fees are more than 2.5%. There are plenty of studies that PROVE credit cards (and debit cards) are cheaper than using cash in the retail sector, including restaurants. Some major reasoning's the 0.5% Banks charge fr cash deposits, 0.5% or more for cash (floats/change) with drawls, mangers time to count and deposit, security etc. So when a business says they are being hurt by CC charges...it's not so true. Credit card fees are a cost of doing business, and I am not sure that the HOA are directing the fees as the $25 is being charged across all HVC resorts. We are al ready paying the mangers of the resort 13% and we are already paying 160 (I think) per week for club membership. So flat out this CC fee is money grab IMO, to cover operating costs we have already paid for.

 

[jp10558]

I feel like a lot of stuff as been conflated for which I have subtly different views on. The idea that the market solves all issues is blatantly untrue - almost no one on this forum justifies the sales tactics in retail of the timeshare industry as "well, the buyer made an informed decision and if they didn't like it, they wouldn't have bought it". Yet we want to apply that logic we reject there to other big resourced companies forcing changes some see as lying to customers like the now spreading digital payment fee. Remember this started with a fee for taking a check I think, or a bank draft IIRC.

I also agree with AJCts411 that most people in reality tend to hate al la carte purchases, or else cable bundles and unlimited minutes would never have caught on IMO. Flate rate of all sorts would not be a selling point, yet it is. It's basically insurance against unexpected huge bills.

In no place am I arguing that customers don't in the end have to pay for costs. I'm not really against businesses setting their prices where they think the market will bear. What I am against is the creeping Airline or car purchase model:

I see a sign outside saying $3 for a soda. When I walk in and get that soda, I don't then think it's fair for me to have to wait in line and then reject the purchase at the last minute (and probably annoy other customers, drive the employees mad, etc) because of all the a la carte fees they can think to add.

Oh, it's summer so there's the AirCon fee. $0.05. You went the restroom, $1 fee. You browsed the store, $0.50 store maintenance fee, You opened 3 coolers comparing sodas, 3x $0.25 cooling fee. And $0.02 Cash payment fee, or the $0.09 credit card fee, or a $0.05 check fee, and a $0.10 time checking out fee. $0.50 parking lot maintenance fee, etc etc. Sure, all of these are true, and the costs vary based on if I rode a bike or drove an F250, paid cash, check, or card, how fast I am at finding what I want, if I use a bathroom or not, etc. I just think these, and ideally tax, should be the up front cost of buying the drink. Of course, then you're beating out the "more honest" store across the way selling the soda for $4 that just includes all the costs of doing business.

And I think this is coming sans legislation. Because we used to have pay for restrooms. And we already see the fees creeping - ever ordered from GrubHub? There's the prices (that are inflated), there's a delivery fee, and a service fee, and a driver fee, and an expected tip. It all makes me wonder how in the aughts pizza places could ever afford to deliver a pizza for just a tip to the driver. Oh, and the justifications are pretty weak - delivery fee because somehow handing a pizza to a driver costs the restaurant extra vs handing to a customer picking it up themselves. The service fee for making an app (which to me seems like it's a service to the restaurant - again with the insane idea that they want to encourage phone orders because it "saves them money"). The driver fee to pay the drivers (shouldn't the company pay employees?). And the same tip we always had.

And the tip culture is also insane - we have another thread on that, but I really resent being expected to tip for the person to hand me a pick up order.

 

[jp10558]

This thread WAS about credit card fees being charged by an HOA I believe. Not a restaurant, not a food prep fee, not a fee from a merchant. Depending on the card used, the HOA (via its owners) has to pay on every dollar in maintenance fees collected via CC.

Shadow Ridge generally has about 1% in CC fees on dues collected (probably so low as Marriott pays their share directly.) Still, this amounts to about $500,000 EVERY year. Owner then have to pay an additional $50,000 in management fees for these budgeted costs. So if the fees were directly passed to owners using CCs owners would save $50,000 if they were removed form the budget. (No I am sure Marriott would just collect more and keep the fees in the budget for their 10%.)

If you're a timeshare HOA, the last thing you should want to be doing IMO is giving people a reason to not want to pay the MFs. You want to not tip people into defaulting because they feel like they're being unfairly charged to pay remotely via CC or ACH. I've had too many payments get lost in the mail, and then it's still my problem and a late fee because you want a fee for paying online too. Like, don't make it hard to get paid IMO.

 

[davidvel]

If you're a timeshare HOA, the last thing you should want to be doing IMO is giving people a reason to not want to pay the MFs. You want to not tip people into defaulting because they feel like they're being unfairly charged to pay remotely via CC or ACH. I've had too many payments get lost in the mail, and then it's still my problem and a late fee because you want a fee for paying online too. Like, don't make it hard to get paid IMO.

I have never been charged anything when using ACH. This has always been a free alternative with utilities, government payments, etc. Marriott will always want the HOA to have the fees in the budget because they make 10%. Of course owners pay that extra 10% on top of fees.

 

[boraxo]

Yes, we pay for it no matter what. The merchants need to pass on those fees through higher prices to everyone, even if it is just some of us using the most expensive types of payment. I love, love, love the points I get with American Express. I use my card anywhere that takes it. However, those people paying with cash and credit cards with lower merchant fees are subsidizing my purchases with it, wouldn't you say? Maybe people paying cash should be more pissed off that their lunch costs more because the vendor accepts Amex.

Even though surcharges at some businesses for using credit are annoying, I still have the choice of how to pay and am paying my fair share (as long as the merchant is only covering their costs and not trying to make a profit on the surcharge). Paying US bills from Canada is such a pain, I do rely on my US Credit Card a lot. So I am in the same boat as the OP, I haven't written a cheque in years. There are very few digital payment options between Canada & US... I wish I had Zelle.

Nobody in USA pays these fees with cash and I doubt many pay by cheque (where would you actually pay cash??!!) . This is just a price gouge because they need to keep increasing their profits. I prefer not to provide bank info to merchants because they all have mediocre security and I get data breach notices every month. It is far easier to cancel and replace a credit card than a bank account.

I am not recommending this but if everyone starts bouncing checks maybe they will wise up and remove these fees. Credit cards are far better for merchants even with chargebacks.

And who exactly is going to charge back a maintenance fee? Only somebody who has decided not to pay anymore. And these people won't pay anyway regardless of payment method. it is not like the person who buys something online and then scams the merchant.

So no, don't make excuses for this heinous surcharge.

 

[dioxide45]

So no, don't make excuses for this heinous surcharge.

But someone is paying the fee when it comes to HOA maintenance fees. Either they charge the fee to the owner paying by credit card or they spread the fees out to be paid by all owners as a line item in the annual budget. Perhaps that credit card fee line item gets offset by increases in labor costs to process transactions paid via other methods (check). Electronic check is far cheaper than credit card and doesn't require the labor overhead like paper checks do.

 

[gggllm]

Wondering by adding this fee, do they allow you to split payment to multiple credit cards? And if the fee is for per transaction?

 

[boraxo]

But someone is paying the fee when it comes to HOA maintenance fees. Either they charge the fee to the owner paying by credit card or they spread the fees out to be paid by all owners as a line item in the annual budget. Perhaps that credit card fee line item gets offset by increases in labor costs to process transactions paid via other methods (check). Electronic check is far cheaper than credit card and doesn't require the labor overhead like paper checks do.

ACH and credit cards both require zero effort - you just set up a payment processing website (which was done years ago) and the vendor processes the payment. It goes into the merchant account in a matter of hours or days.

Of course merchants pay less for ACH transactions than they pay for credit card transactions. But that is not my problem. I resent being nickel and dimed for extra processing at any merchant. It will be interesting to see what happens if people start sending paper checks (personally I will not do that having been victimized by check washing).

 

[flyingsideshow]

I did get a notice in the mail about the fees and found it interesting that the "voluntary ARDA contribution" has doubled to $10. I didn't look closely but don't remember seeing an option to opt out on paying it online. I set a reminder to pay it the day before it is due since my card statement ends two days before it's due. Never did like that ARDA thing. Why should I donate to a group that seems like it wants to find ways to get more of my money?

 

[dioxide45]

But that is not my problem. I resent being nickel and dimed for extra processing at any merchant.

I can understand that for normal retail merchants. Things like taxes, utilities and HOA dues (which are like taxes) are different IMO. You aren't buying a product or service here. You are paying for the operation of the resort. Those credit card fees get paid one way or the other. They get lumped in to your and other owners annual maintenance fees or they are charged as a surcharge. In your situation, you would rather those who don't pay by credit cards subsidize your use of a credit card. That is really what is happening when paying maintenance fees by credit card without a surcharge.

 

[dioxide45]

Credit cards are far better for merchants even with chargebacks.

A number I saw seemed to indicate that chargebacks cost merchants as much, if not more, than the total of all check fraud. As noted, chargebacks, and probably written checks, for maintenance fee payments probably have a low likelihood of a chargeback and checks a low likelihood of NSF.