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Need quick advice on upgrade.

dplus11d

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We are staying in our first timeshare for the first time. It is a triannual that we purchased with a Charter Package. We have used the charter packge for 2 hot weeks already (great deals). We purchased a 3/2 for 10K. Stormy Point is now in their 4th phase of construction with 4 bedroom units. When we went to the owner's update, they are offering an annual 4 bedroom with a "concierge" package. The MF's would be 10 more and would be every other year vs. every third year we are paying now. They say there is a waiting list for the 4 bedrooms and they have to offer the current owners the upgrade before they can sell to non-owners.

We are now in a positions where we would like to take one or two vacations a year and not have to wait 3 years and rely on just the hot weeks. With the 4BR, we could split it and get 2- 2BR weeks. This option would also allow 3 and 4 night stays. They also said that since we bought before the big amenities were built, they can't charge us for those, but, it allows them to give us an "equity' position that is about 2 1/2 times what we paid.

This scenario seems to fit everything we want. The 3 bedroom sleeps 8. The 4 bedroom doubles the size of the first floor and sleeps 16 (2 kings, 1 queen, 2 twins and 4 sofas) I was only able to find one 4 bedroom on sale for $20K (about 4K less than what they are asking from us). From what little I've read so far, resales are the way to go. But, in this case, I don't see many/any for sale. I'm not sure I would get all the benefits the company is offering. And, since they are newer construction, how long would it be before we could find a good resale?

I am very new to TS's, but, everything that I see makes me think this is something we shouldn't pass up. What do you all (the experts) think?

He does want us to sign a paper tomorrow either taking it, or not. He is a salaried worker and didn't seem bothered by us not taking it. It appears that many others are. If we have a right of refusal being owners, how long can we extend our decision?

Sorry this is so long, I wanted to make sure I included some of the pertinent details. So glad I found this site.

Thanks!

Deb
 

Talent312

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First: Could you really use a 4-BR on a routine basis? Do you have a farm-family?

I can't speak to property, but you should take all those they-said's with a grain of salt:
-- waiting list? udder rubbish; they prolly have trouble selling 'em due to the MF's
-- offer current owners b4 non-owners? depends on who they're selling
-- not charging for amenities? 'equity' is on paper-only; TS's are not an 'investment.'
-- the deal is good tomorrow only? they'll say that next week + next month.

Around here, we say: "How do you tell a TS's salesman is lying? His lips are moving."
Of course he seems friendly, easy going -- That's a tactic to make you feel good.
I went to a Saturn dealership once: We're so friendly, you have to want to buy from us!

I'm not saying it's always wrong to buy from a developer; many of us have. I'm just saying don't rely on anything "they say" or niceness. Do your homework -- consider the price + 20 yrs of MF's as your cost to own -- does that make sense? Also, check out sales on e-bay, redweek and other sources of resales.
.

.
 

TUGBrian

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in almost all situations an "upgrade" is only a good deal financially for the salesmen.

We can assure you that the "deal" he is offering will be available long after the tomorrow deadline should you do your research and decide you want to go that route.

Salesmen thrive off pressuring you into making a decision without the time to educate yourself on what you are buying....its an effective tactic that has been used in this industry (and many others) since the dawn of time.
 

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Thank you for the relplies.

First, I am trying to get as much research done on a timely manner (thus, joining the site), because I would like to get it. But, I don't want to overpay, either. So, I appreciate the timely responses.

First, we are in the position to use a 4 bedroom, or, two 2-bedrooms each year. Right now, we have a 3 bedroom every third year. We have friends who travel with us, 3 teen boys and my mom. I would like to have beds for all the teens (for some reason, none of them want to sleep with grandma :) Again, I am trying to figure out if this makes sense. To me it seems to be a no brainer, but, to my spouse it is a ripoff only because he doesn't trust the salesman (which I get).

He didn't say the deal was only good until today. He just wants to get it done before Thanskgiving. I'm sure we can go back later and get it. I book all the vacations for the family and already know that my husband wants to go skiing every year and would love to have the option to trade every year vs. trading every third year and relying on hot weeks. Does it make a difference that our salesman is on salary vs. commision?

I'm not sure they are having trouble selling them. The third phase that we bought into sold pretty quickly. They are really beautiful, new units. Very unique.

MF's go from ~$540 every 3 years to ~$550 every other year. Are those high maintenance fees? I didn't think so for what we have. And, no maintenance fee if we don't use the unit that year.

Also, we wouldn't pay the $100? $200? trading fees through II when we trade this property (I think II just bought it?)

My mom has a friend who has timeshares who advised us against it. However, my mom didn't know to tell her it was only every 3 years that we can use.

Am I thinking about this incorrectly? If I bought five 2BR units it would be about the same price as paying the $14K, but, not having the trading power of being able to have a larger unit, if needed. Knowing what I know now, I'm sure we should have bought "used" initially, but, the additional weeks we are getting with this seem to make sense.

So, to calculate whether it makes sense, I add up all that we would pay, plus maintenance fees for 20 years and then divide that by how many vacations we plan to take in that time? Is that how that works?

Thanks again!!

Deb
 

dplus11d

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Another quick question. With new construction, how long does it usually take before properties become available on the secondary market?

Thank you!

Deb
 

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Before you make a firm decision, go to eBay and do a search for this resort. Look down the left side (completed auctions) and see what they actually sell for. You may find that you can get what you want for just a few bucks.

Remember, NO timeshare appreciates in value. Most sell for under a few hundred after the original owners have had all the fun and memories they want.

And I might point out that those teens and Grandma that you seem to be considering buying this for won't be around forever. The teens will go off to college, have families of their own and that seldom includes vacationing with the parents. And Grandma..... well, you know.

I honestly think that this kind of expenditure for speculating that there will be long-term, ongoing use is not being realistic.

Jim
 

tschwa2

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So you aren't looking to stay in Branson every year? You are looking to purchase a 4 br annual lock off. How much more will you be spending? How do you think you can exchange it for other properties without paying an exchange fee? How much is the MF for the 4 br lock off?

Buying from a developer is almost (99.9%) never the way to go to get the best bang for your buck.


You need to know exactly what you are buying, how much it will cost and what you plan to do with the weeks and how much more that will cost you.
 

tschwa2

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Just for reference since there are two developers selling at Stormy Point is it a Summerwinds unit or a Festiva one?

I am assuming Summerwinds because you don't mention points.

Is it a float week or a fixed week? Branson is never a particularly great trader. It isn't bad but it may not get you to tough to get places. If it is a float week you will want to know if you can reserve a high demand week to deposit or if they choose for you or limit the weeks that you can deposit. An off season Branson week is going to have an even lower trading power.
 

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Wow! This doesn't even seem like the same place we got. Based on my experience so far, I've booked 2 Hot Deals at $299 a week (one in Williamsburg that my family LOVED) and we are here in a 3BD over Thanksgiving week, that I booked around June or July. Not sure what to say now. Seems like many others on that site have had a much different experience. The owners I've spoken to since we've been here seem very happy...one 4-bedroom owner said I should jump on "the deal". Of course, maybe he is one of the developers? All the reviews I've read on TripAdvisor have been very positive, too.

Okay, so, now more confused...this place looks full...there must be some happy owners!

But, this did help, in that now I see that there are probably 4BR's on the resale market already.

Thank you,

Deb
 

dplus11d

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Before you make a firm decision, go to eBay and do a search for this resort. Look down the left side (completed auctions) and see what they actually sell for. You may find that you can get what you want for just a few bucks.

Remember, NO timeshare appreciates in value. Most sell for under a few hundred after the original owners have had all the fun and memories they want.

And I might point out that those teens and Grandma that you seem to be considering buying this for won't be around forever. The teens will go off to college, have families of their own and that seldom includes vacationing with the parents. And Grandma..... well, you know.

I honestly think that this kind of expenditure for speculating that there will be long-term, ongoing use is not being realistic.

Jim


Hi Jim,

I haven't been able to find any 4BR resales so far. Only 1 listed at $20K, which, given the 10K we already have in the 3 BR and the resale of that, would make it higher than the upgrade. But, if more 4BR were available for resale, it would make a lot more sense to do that.

We are only using our purchase now for the first time, so I am completely inexperienced with the trading system. But, what he said is that with this purchase, there would be no trading fee with II (again, I think it was someone at the travel office when I was booking something else that said II bought them? Not sure what that means.) So, I'm buying it to travel with friends and family, but, in other years, can we get 2 weeks with 2BRs or 4 weeks with 1BR's? That was my thought on the 4BR and a selling point (going from 3BR ETY to a 4BR every year) and potentially using that for 2 week vacations for the next few years. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

Thanks,

Deb
 

tschwa2

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If you are getting a 4 br ey than your MF would be EY not EOY.
There is always an exchange fee to use II. The parent company that owns II has been buying various TS companies. Hyatt is one. They pay an exchange fee for every exchange using II.

If you don't have points than you will not be able to use your week for 4 one br exchanges. You will get one exchange for each lock out unit.

Even if there are not other 4 br lockoffs available there, there are other 4 br lock offs available other places that you could buy for under $500. If you don't want to stay in Branson most of the time, no reason to buy there.
 

dplus11d

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So you aren't looking to stay in Branson every year? You are looking to purchase a 4 br annual lock off. How much more will you be spending? How do you think you can exchange it for other properties without paying an exchange fee? How much is the MF for the 4 br lock off?

Buying from a developer is almost (99.9%) never the way to go to get the best bang for your buck.


You need to know exactly what you are buying, how much it will cost and what you plan to do with the weeks and how much more that will cost you.

I'm not sure what a lock off is. Not looking to stay in Branson every year. Can a 4BR Branson trade for a nice Winter Park, CO ski resort (2-3 bedroom even).
Spending 14K more, he said no exchange fee, and MF is ~550 every other year.

So, if I can find a 4BR resale, that would obviously be the best deal if it is under 14K. Would rather find it sooner rather than later, though. For next year's vacations, since we have to wait another 2 year to use this one.

~Deb
 

tschwa2

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If the MF are every other year than you get your 4 br every other year. A lock off means that there is a door so it can be used as 2 separate two bedroom units. If it is a dedicated 4 br than you can make one exchange.


It really doesn't matter what they tell you, it only matters what is in the contract. They lie and then will say that it is you that misunderstood.

Exchanging through II, you may be able to get a ski week in a 2 br unit if you aren't that picky and make the request 8-12 months in advance.
 

Ty1on

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I'm not sure what a lock off is. Not looking to stay in Branson every year. Can a 4BR Branson trade for a nice Winter Park, CO ski resort (2-3 bedroom even).
Spending 14K more, he said no exchange fee, and MF is ~550 every other year.

So, if I can find a 4BR resale, that would obviously be the best deal if it is under 14K. Would rather find it sooner rather than later, though. For next year's vacations, since we have to wait another 2 year to use this one.

~Deb

To put things into perspective, you have already paid $10K for a 3BR, right? And to get a 4BR, you give them the 3BR and pay another $14K, in essence paying $24K for your 4BR? Lock-off means that the 4 BR can be split into two 2 BR with seperate entries, by the way.

It may be too early to get one of these new 4BR resale, but consider that if you lay out this kind of money, you might be the one giving it away for free in a few years.

Also, I would very carefully double check the $550 every other year they quoted. That seems low for a 4 BR. It may be $550 every year for use every other year. I don't know what the maintenance fees run there, so I could be completely off-base. I just know if a salesman said it, it might not be true.
 

raygo123

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I'm not sure what a lock off is. Not looking to stay in Branson every year. Can a 4BR Branson trade for a nice Winter Park, CO ski resort (2-3 bedroom even).
Spending 14K more, he said no exchange fee, and MF is ~550 every other year.

So, if I can find a 4BR resale, that would obviously be the best deal if it is under 14K. Would rather find it sooner rather than later, though. For next year's vacations, since we have to wait another 2 year to use this one.

~Deb
There is something called buyers remorse. The first symptom is : your here. Cause hast. In about a week or less on this forum you will get opinions to make up your mind what, is best. This is a long time investment.

$14,000 will buy you a nice 2 brm from the developer. Retail! Resell, your buying from someone who wants out.

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dplus11d

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If you are getting a 4 br ey than your MF would be EY not EOY.
There is always an exchange fee to use II. The parent company that owns II has been buying various TS companies. Hyatt is one. They pay an exchange fee for every exchange using II.

If you don't have points than you will not be able to use your week for 4 one br exchanges. You will get one exchange for each lock out unit.

Even if there are not other 4 br lockoffs available there, there are other 4 br lock offs available other places that you could buy for under $500. If you don't want to stay in Branson most of the time, no reason to buy there.

Great! Thanks for the info. Guess we can just keep this one and buy another one at resale.
 

dplus11d

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There is something called buyers remorse. The first symptom is : your here. Cause hast. In about a week or less on this forum you will get opinions to make up your mind what, is best. This is a long time investment.

$14,000 will buy you a nice 2 brm from the developer. Retail! Resell, your buying from someone who wants out.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Thank you. I think after a couple of hours on the forum, I think it is best to buy a resell. Even with trading costs, it will take a long time to get to 14K. So, I guess the next research will be to find out about the best value for our trading/travel needs. I like the way you put it...retail vs. resell!
 
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dplus11d

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To put things into perspective, you have already paid $10K for a 3BR, right? And to get a 4BR, you give them the 3BR and pay another $14K, in essence paying $24K for your 4BR? Lock-off means that the 4 BR can be split into two 2 BR with seperate entries, by the way.

It may be too early to get one of these new 4BR resale, but consider that if you lay out this kind of money, you might be the one giving it away for free in a few years.

Also, I would very carefully double check the $550 every other year they quoted. That seems low for a 4 BR. It may be $550 every year for use every other year. I don't know what the maintenance fees run there, so I could be completely off-base. I just know if a salesman said it, it might not be true.

Thanks for the lock-out explanation. Yes, it is.

I triple asked him about the MF. the 3BR is $540 a year and the 4BR is $550 every other year. He said that they do it that way because many people aren/'t using their 4BD every year and it saves them from having to return MF's. I was going to ask about that again and make sure they are charging $550 each year and splitting it up into EOY payments.

I think I'm going to hold off until next year and see what happens. Also, see what kind of luck we have in booking a 3BR with our friends and family $299 option.

Thanks again!

Deb
 

decadude

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So you aren't looking to stay in Branson every year? You are looking to purchase a 4 br annual lock off. How much more will you be spending? How do you think you can exchange it for other properties without paying an exchange fee? How much is the MF for the 4 br lock off?

Buying from a developer is almost (99.9%) never the way to go to get the best bang for your buck.


You need to know exactly what you are buying, how much it will cost and what you plan to do with the weeks and how much more that will cost you.

yep 99.9% buying from the developer is not the way to go oddly I am finding myself potentially facilitating a deal withe the developer where I own we will see likely will not happen.

Good advice though odds are don't buy from the developer
 

tschwa2

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dplus11d,
Do you currently own a float week or a fixed week? Do you have a II account? Do you currently have to pay an exchange fee and if you do, did they say why you wouldn't have to for the new purchase? If you have a II account you should be able to search. The availability won't be that much different. For online searching it should be the same between the old unit and the new one. I did see a 3 br Winter Park unit available for late January 2017.

I know you have spent too much time with this already and they have already told you several half truths about many things. If you feel like it specificially ask them to show you in the paperwork that you are buying an annual 4 br unit. Ask them to add an addendum to the contract that you will have no Interval International exchange fees. Also in writing that the current MF for a 4 br annual unit is $550 paid only on the odd or even years. Honestly $550 annually for a 4 br unit is on the very low side. It probably includes a developer subsidy that will disappear once they get close to selling out. Paying $550 ever other year ($275 annualized) for a 4 br lock off is absolutely unheard of. Ask for a copy of the budget. These are just the big obvious lies and if they lied about these things -which they will never put in the contract because it isn't true, they probably lied about small things too.
 

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Thank you. I think after a couple of hours on the forum, I think it is best to buy a resell. Even with trading costs, it will take a long time to get to 14K. So, I guess the next research will be to find out about the best value for our trading/travel needs. I like the way you put it...retail vs. resell!
I started out in 1987 to buy what I wanted. Orange lake then blue green and Wyndham. Either rent or buy resale today, its a bit different. Systems versus independent. A good trader if you decide to wait. 4 yrs ago I decided to go Wyndham, those 4 bedrooms, 400,000 points,about $2100 a year maintenance fee. Use as a guide.

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dplus11d

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dplus11d,
Do you currently own a float week or a fixed week? Do you have a II account? Do you currently have to pay an exchange fee and if you do, did they say why you wouldn't have to for the new purchase? If you have a II account you should be able to search. The availability won't be that much different. For online searching it should be the same between the old unit and the new one. I did see a 3 br Winter Park unit available for late January 2017.

I know you have spent too much time with this already and they have already told you several half truths about many things. If you feel like it specificially ask them to show you in the paperwork that you are buying an annual 4 br unit. Ask them to add an addendum to the contract that you will have no Interval International exchange fees. Also in writing that the current MF for a 4 br annual unit is $550 paid only on the odd or even years. Honestly $550 annually for a 4 br unit is on the very low side. It probably includes a developer subsidy that will disappear once they get close to selling out. Paying $550 ever other year ($275 annualized) for a 4 br lock off is absolutely unheard of. Ask for a copy of the budget. These are just the big obvious lies and if they lied about these things -which they will never put in the contract because it isn't true, they probably lied about small things too.

We own a floating week. We do belong to II, but, I haven't used it yet. We forgot to bank it in time, so, we are using our time this week and having a great time. I know that one of the primary things I like is the annual vs. triannual availability to use a timeshare. We were new to all of this when we went to the presentation, uneducated, and not in a position to vacation as often as we are now. We may be able to use it in for that Winter Park suggestion.

I'm willing to take as much time as I need to, to make informed decisions around this topic. I do love to get the best value for our money. Phase 3 is finished (the one we bought into), and the fees for that are only $540 for our year, so I wasn't too surprised by the lower fees. Thanks for the tips. I will check on the budget and, if we get close to a contract, I will make sure that the things that we talked about are in the contract.

Thanks for the advice! It is all very helpful!

Deb
 

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Just for reference since there are two developers selling at Stormy Point is it a Summerwinds unit or a Festiva one?

I am assuming Summerwinds because you don't mention points.

Is it a float week or a fixed week? Branson is never a particularly great trader. It isn't bad but it may not get you to tough to get places. If it is a float week you will want to know if you can reserve a high demand week to deposit or if they choose for you or limit the weeks that you can deposit. An off season Branson week is going to have an even lower trading power.

Summerwinds. Float week/Red. Do we have to deposit a specific week, or, do you just deposit based on it being a red week? I'm guessing I just need to go read a few articles on this. I'm probably now asking very basic questions here.

I do appreciate all the help. It was well worth joining this group.

Thanks,

Deb
 

dplus11d

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To put things into perspective, you have already paid $10K for a 3BR, right? And to get a 4BR, you give them the 3BR and pay another $14K, in essence paying $24K for your 4BR? Lock-off means that the 4 BR can be split into two 2 BR with seperate entries, by the way.

It may be too early to get one of these new 4BR resale, but consider that if you lay out this kind of money, you might be the one giving it away for free in a few years.

Also, I would very carefully double check the $550 every other year they quoted. That seems low for a 4 BR. It may be $550 every year for use every other year. I don't know what the maintenance fees run there, so I could be completely off-base. I just know if a salesman said it, it might not be true.

Paid 10K for every 3 years on the 3BR. 12K to go every year on a 4BR. In my mind I'm paying twice as much for 3 times the availability. But, if we overpaid for the 3BR, then, I don't want to overpay for the 4BR. That's been the big question, is $24K too much for a 4BR? But, from what I've read here, resale is the way to go.

Deb
 
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