Need help please (sales rep lied to me)

[lawyeronthebeach]

Longtime lurker and owner who finally registered to weigh in on this, because the Elliott article really irked me.

I read through this entire thread and noticed OP mentioned once that she was consulting with an attorney. My best guess to clear up the questions people have about the outcome is that this attorney likely wrote a strong demand letter to Hilton and Hilton agreed to let OP off the hook. Every settlement and release I've ever drafted or agreed to (I'm also a civil litigation attorney) includes a confidentiality clause. That's why no one has shared the actual settlement doc (to do so would be a breach).

As for who asked for removing negative posts as a condition, it could be that her attorney offered it (and therefore Hilton didn't "ask"). It could also be that her attorney advised her to delete the posts due to some broad non-disparagement clause in the settlement agreement (which many agreements include), which could also explain the discrepancy on which party allegedly asked for or offered to delete the posts.

My complaints about the Elliott article are probably for another day. But knowing how legal settlements typically work, and recognizing that some folks just aren't precise when writing emails, I don't take this blogger's concerns about OP's credibility seriously.

 

[lawyeronthebeach]

One more thing, unless Elliott has a contact in Hilton's legal department willing to share the terms of a confidential settlement agreement, I'd take anything from his Hilton source regarding social media posts with a grain of salt.

 

[HuskerATL]

so, do you think one of the conditions of the agreement was to remove all public facing posts about this situation?

 

[lawyeronthebeach]

so, do you think one of the conditions of the agreement was to remove all public facing posts about this situation?

Yes, I do. I would be surprised if a settlement about this did not include a condition to cover removing negative posts. That said, I don't think OP posting about her experience was the reason Hilton refunded her. I suspect her attorney was able to come up with something after reviewing her contract. The conversation earlier in this thread about the ambiguity of "partial week" intrigued me...

 

[HuskerATL]

Yes, I do. I would be surprised if a settlement about this did not include a condition to cover removing negative posts. That said, I don't think OP posting about her experience was the reason Hilton refunded her. I suspect her attorney was able to come up with something after reviewing her contract. The conversation earlier in this thread about the ambiguity of "partial week" intrigued me...

There is no doubt that she did not seem to understand the partial week and then when she did, she was not happy and felt it was completely worthless (which it mostly is). She obviously was not happy about the OS situation. I really think there had to be some confusion there because, I don't think, a sales person is going to say that you can get a week for the dollar amount that she listed. However, I routinely see people post on the FB groups about what they were told at sale's meetings that are completely untrue. The latest one about the sale's person telling them that they can pay their MFs with HH points or another that if they reduced their "status", they would be limited to the number of properties they can use....or some of my favorites about resale; only the ability to use at the resort you own, can't use OS, etc. Heck, we have been lied to about what we would get with Max versus our Elite Premier. So many lies.

 

[GT75]

I suspect her attorney was able to come up with something after reviewing her contract.

I also believe this to be the case. I don't think that it was the social media posts or many more people would be able to get out of these TS contracts. Thanks for sharing your insight because most of us here don't have a clue (but certainly are willing to speculate).

 

[brp]

... because most of us here don't have a clue (but certainly are willing to speculate).

On the internet!?!?!? NEVER!

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

I also believe this to be the case. I don't think that it was the social media posts or many more people would be able to get out of these TS contracts. Thanks for sharing your insight because most of us here don't have a clue (but certainly are willing to speculate).

oh, we are very good speculators....

 

[GT75]

On the internet!?!?!? NEVER!

Sorry, I forgot. We all believe what we read on the internet. After all, it has to be true because someone typed it.

 

[lawyeronthebeach]

Thanks for sharing your insight because most of us here don't have a clue (but certainly are willing to speculate).

You are quite welcome!

I also want to encourage everyone here to consider advising new, unhappy buyers to consult with a consumer law attorney or any civil attorney who regularly litigates contracts (not timeshare exit companies, I know you guys don't like them!) instead of saying "tough luck." Somebody who has a regular case of buyer's remorse may be stuck after the contractual rescission period has passed, but a contract can absolutely still be rescinded AFTER the period stated in the contract if certain fact-specific circumstances exist. I think this point gets lost sometimes.

Based on what I've read here, OP seems to be a good example of someone who probably enough wonky contract ambiguities to support rescission after the contract's get-out-of-jail-free period. If she had been discouraged by all the comments telling her she was stuck instead of persisting and eventually forming a legal argument, she might still be out her 28k. Hope is not automatically lost after the contractual rescission period!

 

[brp]

You are quite welcome!

I also want to encourage everyone here to consider advising new, unhappy buyers to consult with a consumer law attorney or any civil attorney who regularly litigates contracts (not timeshare exit companies, I know you guys don't like them!) instead of saying "tough luck." Somebody who has a regular case of buyer's remorse may be stuck after the contractual rescission period has passed, but a contract can absolutely still be rescinded AFTER the period stated in the contract if certain fact-specific circumstances exist. I think this point gets lost sometimes.

Based on what I've read here, OP seems to be a good example of someone who probably enough wonky contract ambiguities to support rescission after the contract's get-out-of-jail-free period. If she had been discouraged by all the comments telling her she was stuck instead of persisting and eventually forming a legal argument, she might still be out her 28k. Hope is not automatically lost after the contractual rescission period!

This is very good advice. Thank you.

I know that Timeshare salesweasels say all sorts of things, but the written document is what counts. And it surprises me, after all this time, that established TS companies, like HGVC, still have enough wonky language to allow even a good lawyer to find a way out. One would think that they would have cleaned up things sufficiently by now to be solid. Apparently I'm overestimating them

Cheers.

 

[alwysonvac]

@billymach4
Thank you for sharing Green Tea's story (aka Ling Lu Yamaki) in Elliot.

 

[GT75]

I also want to encourage everyone here to consider advising new, unhappy buyers to consult with a consumer law attorney or any civil attorney who regularly litigates contracts (not timeshare exit companies,

Thank you, great advice.

 

[RX8]

Sorry, I forgot. We all believe what we read on the internet. After all, it has to be true because someone typed it.

This has been posted before but it really drives home what you wrote.

 

[dioxide45]

That's why no one has shared the actual settlement doc (to do so would be a breach).

It’s also possible no such document exists. They simply agreed to refund just as if the OP were within their rescission period.

 

[dioxide45]

I also want to encourage everyone here to consider advising new, unhappy buyers to consult with a consumer law attorney or any civil attorney who regularly litigates contracts (not timeshare exit companies, I know you guys don't like them!) instead of saying "tough luck."

Do you recommend they contact an attain their home state or in the state where they signed the contract?

ETA. I also kinda resent the implication that we are somehow giving bad advice by not telling people to seek an attorney. You say you are a longtime lurker. Nothing has stopped you over the years of doing the very thing you suggest.

 

[Mongoose]

To be honest we only have her word that they canceled her contract. Her word appears to be in question. I don’t think the OP and the truth are friends.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMHO...The way the OP handled this was overly dramatic. Although HGVC has some culpability it sounds like OP and her husband did not read the contract yet she wants to blame everyone else for their lack of due diligence.

It sounds like she screwed the consumer advocate that was trying to help her too and did not read that contract either.

It sounds like HGVC did the right thing.

What a bunch of needless drama.

 

[SmithOp]

What's to say that the "lawyer" she allegedly contacted was not Elliot?

I tend to believe his account, it jives with the way she portrayed the whole mess here to us. Hilton just did her a big favor.

As far as finding a breach of contract, good luck with that, this was a clear case of verbal promises not being binding. Hilton has been around a long time, their contracts are rock solid.

 

[lawyeronthebeach]

Do you recommend they contact an attain their home state or in the state where they signed the contract?

ETA. I also kinda resent the implication that we are somehow giving bad advice by not telling people to seek an attorney. You say you are a longtime lurker. Nothing has stopped you over the years of doing the very thing you suggest.

I'd start by looking at your purchase contract for a provision called "governing law" or perhaps something that mentions choice of forum. If the contract says the laws of a certain state govern, then I'd find an attorney licensed in that state.

Unfortunately, if I commented about seeking an attorney every time I saw someone who needed that advice on the various sites I scroll for kicks, I would constantly be commenting everywhere, all of the time

 

[TUGBrian]

perhaps in this case the OP legitimately did have some proof that the salesperson said or wrote something and that was enough to convince HGVC to process the rescission even though it was outside the rescission period. I can recall a few other instances where major developers still granted a rescission if the letter came in a very short time after the deadline etc...so its not completely unheard of even if its extremely rare. However as all the decades on TUG have proven, this is a very low % chance of success...but this thread and a few others proves its not zero!

Ive always encouraged folks to be a squeaky wheel if the rescission period has passed as at that point its up to you to somehow convince the timeshare developer to cancel your contract even though they have no obligation to do so. Providing proof of a lie during a presentation and or actually following thru with reports to the AGs office or other such consumer protection outlets can accomplish that if such proof exists! We all KNOW it happens, but usually most salesfolks ensure there is never any concrete proof of it happening that can be used against them.

perhaps they emailed every HGVC email executive email address every day, perhaps they called every hgvc phone number every day, among other tactics to literally become more trouble than they are worth. It was very clear the OP was going to fight and or die on this hill on this thread alone, i can only imagine what they wrote day in and day out to HGVC! I did get the impression that the "attorney" being referenced was more of a family friend, and thus there was no real financial outlay or cost that would likely apply to your run of the mill owner, but again thats just speculation based on reading the thread and other posts etc.

Id imagine a very significant % of folks in a similar situation simply wont put forth that level of tenacity....heck you even see it when folks get scammed by upfront fee resale/exit companies and most dont even bother to file a report with the Atty Generals offices. We all likely know someone who if they feel wronged will fight tooth and nail to right that wrong, just because they cant stand to let someone get the best of them. While others will just chalk it up as a mistake and move on.

On top of that many owners also likely feel a bit guilty themselves for falling for the sales pitch (and not actually reading the contract until it was too late) and that can contribute to a less than enthusiastic effort to demand or pursue a rescission outside the legally allowed period or will simply give up after hearing the first no! I know i hear this regularly regarding owners who reach out to ask about deedback/surrender programs.

as it stands, telling someone to go speak to a legitimate attorney regarding contract law isnt a terrible idea, and vs getting advice on the internet no doubt a legitimate attorney would point out the difference between your feelings and the reality of the situation as far as the law is concerned...and most would likely do so for a free consultation.

However id still wager that most legitimate attorneys would likely provide the same advice you get here. Sure you may be right, but how much do you want to pay me to try to prove you are right? Telling someone to "go hire an attorney and fight" simply isnt a high chance of success solution in most cases, and likely why its not something that is given as advice more often than not.

 

[brp]

As far as finding a breach of contract, good luck with that, this was a clear case of verbal promises not being binding. Hilton has been around a long time, their contracts are rock solid.

Yeah, that was my conjecture above. We know that the spoken words stretch the truth, at best. But I'm hard-pressed to believe that the written contracts for established TS companies have much in the way of loopholes these days.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Isn't there a clause in the contract that states that the contract is only what's valid and anything said before by sales reps or personnel is not valid and the signer acknowledges that on the contract signing.

IMHO...I find the OPs story fishy (or she and her DH are not the sharpest pencils in the stack, or were so completely overcome with greed from the half-truths that they couldn't think straight.) After buying retail from HGVC in the past, I honestly do not know how the buyer could have NOT have known she wasn't buying a full week. In our case, the HGVC contract signing agent pointed out explicitly that we were buying an annual week with x points in the particular property in the final signing in the sales office.

After attending many presentations (and not buying) I believe that HGVC sales provides half-truths that only work in a certain context, but I have never seen them outright lie.

HGVC overall has been honest and good to work with as long as you avoid the sales presentations. I am glad I own there because there are timeshare companies that are not as decent as HGVC. Resale rocks.

 

[brp]

After attending many presentations (and not buying) I believe that HGVC sales provides half-truths that only work in a certain context, but I have never seen them outright lie.

Some folks have reported here being told that, if they bought resale, they'd be limited to their home resort only. I'd not give this half, but maybe one-eighth truth inasmuch as that's all that's guaranteed in the contract, IIRC. Of course, that's true for developer purchases as well

But I also can't recall an outright lie, either in our presentation or others I could overhear.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@brp I have heard those stories here but I can only report what I have been told firsthand and I have never been told that. Perhaps the reps realize that because I already own resale that I know the truth and won't fall for such a line.