MVCI points purchase via the secondary market

[kds4]

MVC points bought directly from an owner, secondary market, ie. resale, will count toward the next level - they are identical to the points bought from Marriott. $8k 'all in' is on the high side for 1000 MVC points.

Perhaps things have changed, but from my prior purchases the $8k estimate was based on:

$4 per point (to pass ROFR) - $4x1000 = $4,000
Minimum base junk fee is $500 per 250 points purchased (but there is a minimum fee of $3,000, so to buy 1,000 points the minimum fee applies) = $3,000
There are a couple of other 'minor' junk fees like the 'education' fee (if it's the buyer's first points purchase), as well as the closing costs charged to complete the purchase of approximately $1,000

If someone can buy points below $4 per point and clear ROFR, they could eek that $8k down a little bit.

 

[StevenTing]

I’m still waiting for my points to show up. Hopefully they show up his week.

My all in cost was $6800 with points purchased at $3.30 per point. Originally my offer was $3.00 per point. The seller then contacted Marriott to see what they would offer. They also offered the same $3.00 per point but once you factor in the other costs to the Seller, the seller would end up with more net proceeds from Marriott.

Seller still decided to go with me so I upped the offer an additional $300 as “goodwill” to the seller for going with me. This final amount passed ROFR and saved me from having to look for another contract.

I think a reasonable all in cost would be between $6500-$7500, including closing costs and all fees. I did not opt in for title insurance. That would have been an additional $200.

I’ll keep you updat d once my points finally post. I’m excited to start booking 2019.

 

[kds4]

I’m still waiting for my points to show up. Hopefully they show up his week.

My all in cost was $6800 with points purchased at $3.30 per point. Originally my offer was $3.00 per point. The seller then contacted Marriott to see what they would offer. They also offered the same $3.00 per point but once you factor in the other costs to the Seller, the seller would end up with more net proceeds from Marriott.

Seller still decided to go with me so I upped the offer an additional $300 as “goodwill” to the seller for going with me. This final amount passed ROFR and saved me from having to look for another contract.

I think a reasonable all in cost would be between $6500-$7500, including closing costs and all fees. I did not opt in for title insurance. That would have been an additional $200.

I’ll keep you updat d once my points finally post. I’m excited to start booking 2019.

Congratulations. That means resale point prices have dipped further since our last resale points purchase. Interesting that your broker volleyed between you and Marriott before locking in a sales price with you. This is the first instance I have seen that approach reported here.

 

[JIMinNC]

I’m still waiting for my points to show up. Hopefully they show up his week.

My all in cost was $6800 with points purchased at $3.30 per point. Originally my offer was $3.00 per point. The seller then contacted Marriott to see what they would offer. They also offered the same $3.00 per point but once you factor in the other costs to the Seller, the seller would end up with more net proceeds from Marriott.

Seller still decided to go with me so I upped the offer an additional $300 as “goodwill” to the seller for going with me. This final amount passed ROFR and saved me from having to look for another contract.

I think a reasonable all in cost would be between $6500-$7500, including closing costs and all fees. I did not opt in for title insurance. That would have been an additional $200.

I’ll keep you updat d once my points finally post. I’m excited to start booking 2019.

The way you describe this transaction, it sounds like this may have been a direct purchase from a seller rather than a transaction through a broker who might play games with folding upfront fees or closing costs into the price submitted to ROFR. Is that true? If so, then the $3.30 would appear to be an all-in, "real" price that passed ROFR rather than one of the ones where Marriott saw a different price than what the buyer is actually paying out. Or was this through a broker that may have been putting together a creative transaction structure in order to pass?

Also, I think you said your purchase was for 1000 points, so I'm wondering if MVC is more likely to pass at a lower price on these smaller lots, since the cost to close the transaction is the same as a larger batch?

 

[StevenTing]

Congratulations. That means resale point prices have dipped further since our last resale points purchase. Interesting that your broker volleyed between you and Marriott before locking in a sales price with you. This is the first instance I have seen that approach reported here.

The broker did not volley between Marriott. It was the actual Seller. Originally the broker said she had a seller and that she would get me a contract. However after 2 days the contract did not come. I asked her where it was and she said the Seller contacted Marriott and received a price where net proceeds were higher. I asked what the Marriott offer was and it was the same price as what I offered. A few days later, she told me the Seller wanted to move forward with me. Maybe the seller wanted to spite Marriott since they were taking a loss on the sale. We will never know.

The way you describe this transaction, it sounds like this may have been a direct purchase from a seller rather than a transaction through a broker who might play games with folding upfront fees or closing costs into the price submitted to ROFR. Is that true? If so, then the $3.30 would appear to be an all-in, "real" price that passed ROFR rather than one of the ones where Marriott saw a different price than what the buyer is actually paying out. Or was this through a broker that may have been putting together a creative transaction structure in order to pass?

Also, I think you said your purchase was for 1000 points, so I'm wondering if MVC is more likely to pass at a lower price on these smaller lots, since the cost to close the transaction is the same as a larger batch?

The transaction was through a broker. We folded the fees all-in and the contracted purchase price was $6800 with the Seller paying all transfer fees and closing costs. The way I had the contract worded, if Marriott exercised their right, they would have to pay the purchase price of $6800. Not $6800 less transfer fees.

I went through this process 2 other times where Marriott exercised. However the way I had the contact worded, on instance they would have to pay the full purchase price. The other instance, they would only have to pay the net price. I still need to follow up with the broker when Marriott Exercised even though they would have to pay the full purchase price to see if the Seller actually received the full purchase price.

 

[JIMinNC]

The broker did not volley between Marriott. It was the actual Seller. Originally the broker said she had a seller and that she would get me a contract. However after 2 days the contract did not come. I asked her where it was and she said the Seller contacted Marriott and received a price where net proceeds were higher. I asked what the Marriott offer was and it was the same price as what I offered. A few days later, she told me the Seller wanted to move forward with me. Maybe the seller wanted to spite Marriott since they were taking a loss on the sale. We will never know.


The transaction was through a broker. We folded the fees all-in and the contracted purchase price was $6800 with the Seller paying all transfer fees and closing costs. The way I had the contract worded, if Marriott exercised their right, they would have to pay the purchase price of $6800. Not $6800 less transfer fees.

I went through this process 2 other times where Marriott exercised. However the way I had the contact worded, on instance they would have to pay the full purchase price. The other instance, they would only have to pay the net price. I still need to follow up with the broker when Marriott Exercised even though they would have to pay the full purchase price to see if the Seller actually received the full purchase price.

So then, the question becomes, how should this be construed as to the ROFR price for Marriott? It sounds like, Marriott was passing on ROFR on a contract that would have cost them $6.80 per point, not $3.30/pp. For you, they were essentially passing on a net $3.30/pp cost the way most contracts are worded, but the real question is should this be considered at ROFR pass at $3.30/pp or $6.80/pp?

 

[StevenTing]

So then, the question becomes, how should this be construed as to the ROFR price for Marriott? It sounds like, Marriott was passing on ROFR on a contract that would have cost them $6.80 per point, not $3.30/pp. For you, they were essentially passing on a net $3.30/pp cost the way most contracts are worded, but the real question is should this be considered at ROFR pass at $3.30/pp or $6.80/pp?

I think this is a matter of personal opinion. We all know that the Marriott fees are baked in. We know that everyone has to pay them in a resale. But when using a contract, the words DO matter and the title company follows the rules on the contract exactly with out deviation.

In the future, all of my contracts will define the purchase price and there will be a stipulation that the seller will pay any and all fees and closing costs associated with the transaction, if applicable. In the instance that Marriott exercises, there is no transfer fee, so in theory, the seller would get to keep those proceeds that would normally need to be paid. That was the legal framework that I was operating on.

 

[JIMinNC]

I think this is a matter of personal opinion. We all know that the Marriott fees are baked in. We know that everyone has to pay them in a resale. But when using a contract, the words DO matter and the title company follows the rules on the contract exactly with out deviation.

In the future, all of my contracts will define the purchase price and there will be a stipulation that the seller will pay any and all fees and closing costs associated with the transaction, if applicable. In the instance that Marriott exercises, there is no transfer fee, so in theory, the seller would get to keep those proceeds that would normally need to be paid. That was the legal framework that I was operating on.

In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".

So from your perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the more typical model. But from Marriott's perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.

Any other thoughts from anyone else?

 

[Fasttr]

In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".

So from your perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the moe typical model. But from Marriott's perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.

Any other thoughts from anyone else?

I agree with you...should be based on what MVC was making the decision on....and they passed on paying $6.80

 

[SueDonJ]

In my opinion, while your costs were the same as if the ROFR price were $3.30 in a transaction where the buyer pays the transfer fee (I think that is the more typical model), Marriott was essentially passing ROFR at $6.80/pp since that was the contracted "price".

So from your perspective, ROFR was clearly at $3.30/pp, based on the moe typical model. But from Marriott's perspective, they were passing on a transaction that would have cost them $6.80/pp. So the question is, what price should be reported on a site like ROFR.net? I can make an argument for either way, I guess - but I lean more toward feeling that sale should be reported at $6.80/pp since that is what Marriott was basing their decision on and would therefore represent a better apples-to-apples comparison with the other entries on ROFR.net - assuming that the purpose of ROFR.net is to be a guide on what price it takes for MVC to pass on ROFR. If someone used the $3.30/pp price to make a more typical buyer pays offer, they would likely be disappointed when the transaction failed. Either way, it points out that in all of the entries on ROFR.net, unless we know who paid the fees/closing costs, the numbers might not be 100% comparable.

Any other thoughts from anyone else?

I have never understood why this is a question. The ROFR price reported to ROFR.net (or anywhere else) should be the price on which Marriott bases its decision. Whether closing or other real costs are built in or whether a price is picked out of thin air in order to fraudulently circumvent ROFR rules, if Marriott isn't working with the actual price paid by the buyer then including the lower amount on a report is useless for the purpose of trying to gauge ROFR thresholds.

 

[VacationForever]

I have never understood why this is a question. The ROFR price reported to ROFR.net (or anywhere else) should be the price on which Marriott bases its decision. Whether closing or other real costs are built in or whether a price is picked out of thin air in order to fraudulently circumvent ROFR rules, if Marriott isn't working with the actual price paid by the buyer then including the lower amount on a report is useless for the purpose of trying to gauge ROFR thresholds.

... so the long and short of this, the ROFR for this particular transaction should be based on $6.80. I agree with JIMinNC that not all ROFR numbers are comparable in the database because of how the purchases can be packaged.

 

[StevenTing]

Hello,
I am currently an "owner" level of MVCI and looking at purchasing points to move to the next level "select". How does the secondary market work? If I purchase on the secondary market will the points be added to my existing point total to achieve the next level and receive the perks of that level (13 month reservation window). Will the points anniversary date convert to my anniversary date or remain with the original purchasers anniversary date? Will the MVCI website/customer service recognize the additional points under my account?

Thanks

While attending a sales presentation this week, I was told that points purchased on the secondary market do not apply to status level. This was a salesman speaking, so of course you should check such facts independently.

Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status. My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential. Previously I was Executive. I was 775 points short. Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold. I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.

The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary. I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.

 

[Shelley]

When you report others...say a HGVC ROFR price to ROFR.net, is the amount reported as the purchase price plus all the mandatory fees, ie. transfer fee, activation fee, estoppel fee, Club fee, etc?

 

[VacationForever]

Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status. My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential. Previously I was Executive. I was 775 points short. Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold. I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.

The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary. I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.

Congratulations!

 

[GregT]

Great news Steven! Congratulations!!!

 

[hangloose]

Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status. My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential. Previously I was Executive. I was 775 points short. Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold. I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.

The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary. I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.

MVCI Presidential is a great status level to have. It also gets you Marriott Platinum Elite status, if you aren’t already.

I wonder, how quickly will Marriott reflect the Platinum status update? Does it happen automatically? And will a linked SPG account also automatically update?

When MVCI DC status changes mid year, I assume you just pay any difference the following year when DC dues payment is due (ie. moving from Select to Presidential increases dues)?

 

[bazzap]

Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status. My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential. Previously I was Executive. I was 775 points short. Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold. I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.

The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary. I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.

Making sure that the points you purchased matched your existing anniversary was a very smart move.
I would take a bet that every purchaser might wish they had done the same on reflection.
A great result.

 

[TXTortoise]

I’ve always assumed that also, but GregT made a good case in another thread about having points split, depending on when your date is. I don’t have the thread linked at the moment, but worth a search.

 

[bazzap]

I’ve always assumed that also, but GregT made a good case in another thread about having points split, depending on when your date is. I don’t have the thread linked at the moment, but worth a search.

Very interesting. I can’t readily think why so I will certainly search for it.

 

[Fasttr]

I’ve always assumed that also, but GregT made a good case in another thread about having points split, depending on when your date is. I don’t have the thread linked at the moment, but worth a search.

Very interesting. I can’t readily think why so I will certainly search for it.

I believe his comments were related to reservations closer to the end of your Use Year. If you are booking a November stay and only have calendar Use Year points, and later have to cancel after the banking deadline has passed, you are very limited in the length of time to use those refunded points. If however in addition to the calendar use year, you also have points that run July-June and had instead, wisely used those points for the November booking, even after cancelling that Nov booking, you still have a lot of time to either use the refunded points OR you still have time to bank them forward (as long as you had cancelled outside of 60 days from check in). I think GregT was commenting that if you have differing Use Year points, you can decide which points to use for different reservations at different times in the year, in order to maximize your usage, should you later have to cancel a ressie.

This same strategy can be used when determining which Use Year points to rent, assuming there are folks renting Trust points with non calendar Use Years at the time you are renting the points. You don't get the benefit of banking those forward, but it would be nicer to book a ressie earlier in any given Use Year of rented points than later in any given Use Year for flexibility reasons.

 

[GregT]

I believe his comments were related to reservations closer to the end of your Use Year. If you are booking a November stay and only have calendar Use Year points, and later have to cancel after the banking deadline has passed, you are very limited in the length of time to use those refunded points. If however in addition to the calendar use year, you also have points that run July-June and had instead, wisely used those points for the November booking, even after cancelling that Nov booking, you still have a lot of time to either use the refunded points OR you still have time to bank them forward (as long as you had cancelled outside of 60 days from check in). I think GregT was commenting that if you have differing Use Year points, you can decide which points to use for different reservations at different times in the year, in order to maximize your usage, should you later have to cancel a ressie.

This same strategy can be used when determining which Use Year points to rent, assuming there are folks renting Trust points with non calendar Use Years at the time you are renting the points. You don't get the benefit of banking those forward, but it would be nicer to book a ressie earlier in any given Use Year of rented points than later in any given Use Year for flexibility reasons.

Good work Fasttr.

 

[frank808]

Going back to the original question, the points do count toward status. My points posted to my account today and I am now Presidential. Previously I was Executive. I was 775 points short. Added 1000 points to cross the 10000 threshold. I now have 2000 trust points, 4950 from a Ko Olina week, and then 3275 from a Grand Chateau week.

The points I purchased matched my existing anniversary. I specifically looked for a contract where they would match.

How do you ensure the points you are buying match your enrolled weeks points? Are there many different trust point months? Just curious as i am a legacy owner with no points. I did not know mvc has points with different use months like Disney vacation club points.

 

[Fasttr]

How do you ensure the points you are buying match your enrolled weeks points? Are there many different trust point months? Just curious as i am a legacy owner with no points. I did not know mvc has points with different use months like Disney vacation club points.

If you purchase Trust points and are not a Legacy owner with enrolled weeks, your Use Year for your points will generally start on the first of the month to occur after 30 days from date of purchase. So as an example, you sign for your purchase on August 20th, generally speaking, your Use Year would run from October 1 - Sept 30 annually. That gives them time to close the deal, get you loaded into the system and feed you your first set of points.

If you are a Legacy owner with enrolled points and purchase Trust points, they will generally align your Trust points Use Year on a calendar year to align with your Legacy points....which are always on a calendar year.

When buying resale points, its always good to ask what the Use Year is, so that you can take that into consideration.

Also when renting points, its always good to ask what the Use Year is to make sure that it will work for the reservation you have in mind.

 

[StevenTing]

I just found out that my Marriott account has been upgraded to Platinum Elite. However, I didn't find out from Marriott. I found out from SPG through an email that said "You're Platinum with SPG." That prompted me to login to Marriott and there it was. So it looks like 2 days from when Marriott recorded and transferred the points to my account to when it was also reflected on Marriott.com for status.

 

[frank808]

If you purchase Trust points and are not a Legacy owner with enrolled weeks, your Use Year for your points will generally start on the first of the month to occur after 30 days from date of purchase. So as an example, you sign for your purchase on August 20th, generally speaking, your Use Year would run from October 1 - Sept 30 annually. That gives them time to close the deal, get you loaded into the system and feed you your first set of points.

If you are a Legacy owner with enrolled points and purchase Trust points, they will generally align your Trust points Use Year on a calendar year to align with your Legacy points....which are always on a calendar year.

When buying resale points, its always good to ask what the Use Year is, so that you can take that into consideration.

Also when renting points, its always good to ask what the Use Year is to make sure that it will work for the reservation you have in mind.

Thanks for the explanation! I thought all mvc points were calendar year starting january.