[ MERGED ] Michigan family jailed in Mexico over timeshare dispute

[CalGalTraveler]

See a quote from the CNN article. The statement is supposed to be from the resort:

“The Akeos began disputing their membership charges with their credit card companies,” Palace said in a statement last week. “These disputes – despite relating to services they had actively used – were granted,” the company said in a statement.

Let's remember that this is a timeshare company - an industry not reputed for truthfulness. They are not under oath and this is not a written contract so Palace can say anything they want to the press and bend the interpretation to their narrative.

The definition of "used" could mean that the couple made the reservations per the contract but Palace cancelled the bonus reservations per the reporting so they were not able to stay i.e. the reservation booking could have been "non-refundable" aka considered "used" per Palace's definition even though there was no stay.

Hence that is why the couple disputed and won the refund from AMEX because the reports indicate that Palace cancelled the bonus reservations therefore services associated with the non-refundable reservation were not rendered for the stay.

This is the most plausible explanation IMHO. Criminal intent by the couple sounds doubtful - perhaps there is more - but we all can agree that the way Palace handled this sent a chilling message to prospects in travel communities in the USA and Canada via national media who will vote with their travel dollars. Of course we will never know all the facts because the couple is likely under NDA.

 

[joestein]

See a quote from the CNN article. The statement is supposed to be from the resort:

“The Akeos began disputing their membership charges with their credit card companies,” Palace said in a statement last week. “These disputes – despite relating to services they had actively used – were granted,” the company said in a statement.

That was what palace says, but that is one side of the story. The couple had a very different side. I can't imagine that Amex would have reversed that amount of charges, if the couple's accusations weren't factual. I guess we might never find out what the real story is.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I guess we might never find out what the real story is.

If anything like educated, objective, hard-working journalists still existed, we would. But, nooooooooooooooooooooooooop!
Who cares really?
Sympathy for people who spend that much time hanging around Mexican all-in resorts? Sorry. No.
Sympathy for people who need to advertise their love for "gaming any system" on the internet? Sorry. No x 2.
Sympathy for people who combine the two? Sorry. No x 3.
Sympathy for people who do all that and then GO BACK TO THE COUNTRY AFTER THEY'VE ALREADY HAD THE COMPANY DEMAND $100+K? Sorry. No to infinity & beyond.
I think we know the story. They messed around. Played games. THey went back. They got basically kidnapped and extorted. It ended almost exactly as I would have expected.

 

[joestein]

If anything like educated, objective, hard-working journalists still existed, we would. But, nooooooooooooooooooooooooop!
Who cares really?
Sympathy for people who spend that much time hanging around Mexican all-in resorts? Sorry. No.
Sympathy for people who need to advertise their love for "gaming any system" on the internet? Sorry. No x 2.
Sympathy for people who combine the two? Sorry. No x 3.
Sympathy for people who do all that and then GO BACK TO THE COUNTRY AFTER THEY'VE ALREADY HAD THE COMPANY DEMAND $100+K? Sorry. No to infinity & beyond.
I think we know the story. They messed around. Played games. THey went back. They got basically kidnapped and extorted. It ended almost exactly as I would have expected.

Who cares? 14 pages of comments say quite a few care.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Sympathy for people who need to advertise their love for "gaming any system" on the internet? Sorry. No x 2.

Hmmm...sounds like people who like to maximize stock market volatility, credit card bonuses, video games, tax avoidance, and timeshare contracts to get the most for their money. Not a crime.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Hmmm...sounds like people who like to maximize stock market volatility, credit card bonuses, video games, and timeshare contracts to get the most for their money. Not a crime.

most definitely NOT a crime, but when it goes awry, no sympathy, and what they did is 100x the magnitude of your examples. As in everything, moderation is not just a good idea, it is the sign of an intelligent adult

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@WaikikiFirst Agree not a crime and maximizing your purchase (but not getting too far over your skis) is good practice. Look at what happened to the Wyndham Megarenters. Tax avoidance not evasion.

This reminds me of those blackjack players who first counted cards in Vegas and when they started winning too much the house rebelled. I don't know if those players were ever jailed and accused of crimes but we need to remember that the "House" in Mexico can play by very different (and extreme) rules.

 

[easyrider]

SO, I guess in Mexico - criminal charges mean nothing. They paid off the company and were released and the criminal charges go away magically. Did they break the law or didn't they? This was literally extortion. They just had to bargain down the price. I am glad they were released, but I am also sorry they were forced to pay.

Criminal charges were dropped by the resort owner because they reached an agreement with the tourists. This is how it works in the USA for the most part too. If there is no complaint to adjudicate there is no reason for a court to look at the matter. They were charged for crimes and held in prison but as far as if they actually broke a law, that never made it through the court system because of the settlement.

Mexico uses a Napoleonic Court system where the accused is presented as guilty until proved innocent which is way different than the USA's innocent until proven guilty. It isn't extortion by the Mexican Court, it's just how things are done in Mexico. I'm glad the couple finally reached a settlement too.

Bill

 

[SML123]

Most of the public has this all wrong. This is 100% not a case of a simple buy and cancel where people have to worry about travel to Mexico or going to a timeshare resort or taking a 'tour' for a gift. Mexican resorts rake in millions of dollars in sales a DAY from mostly American tourists and must operate LEGALLY in order to do so. It's NOT shady. When you cancel as per the contract, they abide by the laws and dont mess with you. IF resorts kept down payments when you canceled they'd not only be shut down but their ability to take Visa Mc and Amex would be revoked and they would not be able to operate. it's only when the buyer does not follow directions for cancelation or takes extra gifts or offers that it gets tricky.

MANY times if you are staying for example at a basic hotel and you are solicited to tour and end up buying a membership at a fancy pants resort, you are offered an opportunity to MOVE to the fancy pants property. This protects their sale as you are now immersed in the lifestyle in which you have enrolled and they can keep an eye on you. If you buy an expensive membership, they'll even fawn over you and put you in a penthouse that has that card on the back of the front door stating that the rental for the suite is $8500 a night... then there is the all inclusive they may include that is presented on paper at $3000 a week per person.

It's easy for a family of four to rack up a $50,000 bill in a few days after signing a contract. IF the family does not cancel the resort charges off the stay to the sales department, but in this case THE COUPLE CANCELED their purchase and therefore now OWES for all those extras they accepted after buying as a condition of the sale. The resort knows exactly what they are doing and WANTS to make the new buyers feel obligated.

What appears to have happened is that this couple KNEW about this loophole for being treated royally after a purchase but did not think the resort would charge them back and file criminal charges for skipping out on a padded but real hotel bill. When the taxi comes to the resort to take you to the airport - you have to show that you have paid before you leave as it's a CRIME to skip out on a hotel or restaurant bill.

This is why they are in jail... they had a warrant for federal charges and when entering the country the system flagged them. They are scumbags, but they are also idiots and belong in jail.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Most of the public has this all wrong. This is 100% not a case of a simple buy and cancel where people have to worry about travel to Mexico or going to a timeshare resort or taking a 'tour' for a gift. Mexican resorts rake in millions of dollars in sales a DAY from mostly American tourists and must operate LEGALLY in order to do so. It's NOT shady. When you cancel as per the contract, they abide by the laws and dont mess with you. IF resorts kept down payments when you canceled they'd not only be shut down but their ability to take Visa Mc and Amex would be revoked and they would not be able to operate. it's only when the buyer does not follow directions for cancelation or takes extra gifts or offers that it gets tricky.

MANY times if you are staying for example at a basic hotel and you are solicited to tour and end up buying a membership at a fancy pants resort, you are offered an opportunity to MOVE to the fancy pants property. This protects their sale as you are now immersed in the lifestyle in which you have enrolled and they can keep an eye on you. If you buy an expensive membership, they'll even fawn over you and put you in a penthouse that has that card on the back of the front door stating that the rental for the suite is $8500 a night... then there is the all inclusive they may include that is presented on paper at $3000 a week per person.

It's easy for a family of four to rack up a $50,000 bill in a few days after signing a contract. IF the family does not cancel the resort charges off the stay to the sales department, but in this case THE COUPLE CANCELED their purchase and therefore now OWES for all those extras they accepted after buying as a condition of the sale. The resort knows exactly what they are doing and WANTS to make the new buyers feel obligated.

What appears to have happened is that this couple KNEW about this loophole for being treated royally after a purchase but did not think the resort would charge them back and file criminal charges for skipping out on a padded but real hotel bill. When the taxi comes to the resort to take you to the airport - you have to show that you have paid before you leave as it's a CRIME to skip out on a hotel or restaurant bill.

This is why they are in jail... they had a warrant for federal charges and when entering the country the system flagged them. They are scumbags, but they are also idiots and belong in jail.

There is nothing in either party reports that describe about what you allege.

If what you say are true about running up inflated bills and then charging them later, that sounds scary. How is that different than the people who are tricked into running up $12,000 bar tabs by overcharging them for drinks by nefarious swindlers. Would you call the victim a "scumbag" in that case?

Legit or not, if what you describe is true, the lesson is to avoid Mexican timeshare sales pitches.

 

[rpennisi]

@WaikikiFirst Agree not a crime and maximizing your purchase (but not getting too far over your skis) is good practice. Look at what happened to the Wyndham Megarenters. Tax avoidance not evasion.

This reminds me of those blackjack players who first counted cards in Vegas and when they started winning too much the house rebelled. I don't know if those players were ever jailed and accused of crimes but we need to remember that the "House" in Mexico can play by very different (and extreme) rules.

But don't you think the couple also played by "very different (and extreme) rules".? 1570 transactions, reselling bonus weeks, then getting charge backs on payments and going online to school others to do the same.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@rpennisi no doubt they pushed it - just like the blackjack card counters in Vegas. The TS "house" did not like it and retaliated.

Is it fraud? IDK. We will never know because they are likely under NDA. How is what they did different than being a MegaRenter?

 

[WorldT]

Let's remember that this is a timeshare company - an industry not reputed for truthfulness. They are not under oath and this is not a written contract so Palace can say anything they want to the press and bend the interpretation to their narrative.

The definition of "used" could mean that the couple made the reservations per the contract but Palace cancelled the bonus reservations per the reporting so they were not able to stay i.e. the reservation booking could have been "non-refundable" aka considered "used" per Palace's definition even though there was no stay.

Hence that is why the couple disputed and won the refund from AMEX because the reports indicate that Palace cancelled the bonus reservations therefore services associated with the non-refundable reservation were not rendered for the stay.

This is the most plausible explanation IMHO. Criminal intent by the couple sounds doubtful - perhaps there is more - but we all can agree that the way Palace handled this sent a chilling message to prospects in travel communities in the USA and Canada via national media who will vote with their travel dollars. Of course we will never know all the facts because the couple is likely under NDA.

Both parties have their own version of the story, hence why there would normally be a civil court case and a neutral arbitrator will hear both sides, read the contract, look at what actually happened and make a decision. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and it is likely we will never know for sure what actually transpired.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

don't you think the couple also played by "very different (and extreme) rules".?

Agree with this. I refrained from pointing it out to calgal. The comparison to "those blackjack players who first counted cards in Vegas" is faulty for exactly the reason you pointed out. those blackjack players played with the same deck as everyone else did. They just understood it better.

 

[pedro47]

I would liked to welcome the Michigan family back to the USA.
Hopefully, that have learned there lesson.

 

[dioxide45]

I would liked to welcome the Michigan family back to the USA.
Hopefully, that have learned there lesson.

They'll probably not want to step foot in Mexico again.

 

[TUGBrian]

this entire situation cost the industry (and palace resorts) FAR more than the amount in dispute...thats for sure.

 

[easyrider]

They'll probably not want to step foot in Mexico again.

Until it's winter in Minnesota again.

Bill

 

[JohnnyO]

Planning a trip or two to Mexico this year. We may do the timeshare tour. We usually say no but it's interesting to learn what they are offering. They pay for me to do it. I can't wait to use my objection to any Mexican timeshare using the Palace Resorts and the jailed Michigan couple. Thanks but NO THANKS. Uh oh ... is this possibly Mexican timeshare fraud????

 

[easyrider]

I can't wait to use my objection to any Mexican timeshare using the Palace Resorts and the jailed Michigan couple

That is the best objection I've heard of for a long while. I might use it too. Thanks for thinking of it, lol.

Bill

 

[joestein]

Most of the public has this all wrong. This is 100% not a case of a simple buy and cancel where people have to worry about travel to Mexico or going to a timeshare resort or taking a 'tour' for a gift. Mexican resorts rake in millions of dollars in sales a DAY from mostly American tourists and must operate LEGALLY in order to do so. It's NOT shady. When you cancel as per the contract, they abide by the laws and dont mess with you. IF resorts kept down payments when you canceled they'd not only be shut down but their ability to take Visa Mc and Amex would be revoked and they would not be able to operate. it's only when the buyer does not follow directions for cancelation or takes extra gifts or offers that it gets tricky.

MANY times if you are staying for example at a basic hotel and you are solicited to tour and end up buying a membership at a fancy pants resort, you are offered an opportunity to MOVE to the fancy pants property. This protects their sale as you are now immersed in the lifestyle in which you have enrolled and they can keep an eye on you. If you buy an expensive membership, they'll even fawn over you and put you in a penthouse that has that card on the back of the front door stating that the rental for the suite is $8500 a night... then there is the all inclusive they may include that is presented on paper at $3000 a week per person.

It's easy for a family of four to rack up a $50,000 bill in a few days after signing a contract. IF the family does not cancel the resort charges off the stay to the sales department, but in this case THE COUPLE CANCELED their purchase and therefore now OWES for all those extras they accepted after buying as a condition of the sale. The resort knows exactly what they are doing and WANTS to make the new buyers feel obligated.

What appears to have happened is that this couple KNEW about this loophole for being treated royally after a purchase but did not think the resort would charge them back and file criminal charges for skipping out on a padded but real hotel bill. When the taxi comes to the resort to take you to the airport - you have to show that you have paid before you leave as it's a CRIME to skip out on a hotel or restaurant bill.

This is why they are in jail... they had a warrant for federal charges and when entering the country the system flagged them. They are scumbags, but they are also idiots and belong in jail.

So what. I did the same thing many years ago. We purchased a timeshare in Williamsburg, VA. We then moved into the TS for the remaining time of the week. Then after realizing that we are not in the position to buy a timeshare - we rescinded.

No one went after us, no one expected us to pay back the cost of the unit for 4 nights or any of the other perks we received. Certainly did not file charges against us.

 

[dsalomon]

Seems they were release.

 

[WorldT]

Seems they were release.

Yes, after dropping some money (100k?) to be distributed among some charities. Criminal case is gone. Is the civil case gone?

 

[VacationForever]

Yes, after dropping some money (100k?) to be distributed among some charities. Criminal case is gone. Is the civil case gone?

My guess they coughed up the $250k.

 

[ondeadlin]

Even if you did apply US Law, does anyone think that if a Mexican National was in the US and they were charged with a six-figure fraud against an American company that there is any chance they would be released on bail?

I'm a federal prosecutor, and I assure you that it's very likely that they would be if they had no other criminal record. They would surrender their passports and they would be put on a tether.