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Maui Hotels Have the Highest Rates But the Lowest Occupancy

ScoopKona

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Put another way, if two equal people apply for a job, is there something wrong with hiring the one willing to work for less money, even if the amount they are willing to work for isn’t enough for them to pay all their bills?

Depends. Have you spent any time in Denmark? How would you compare the quality of life for the average person there vs. here?

Do you place any value on that?

Thinking that minimum wage only really applies to teenagers is what got us into the situation we're in now. "More of the same" isn't going to get us out of it.
 

Tamaradarann

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I never said anything about Long Island, and don't care what the teachers there are paid. I just don't like your grand idea of taking money from other Hawaii residents to put teachers up above them financially.
Lynne criticized me for Long Island, you didn't. However, you don't want teachers, who have lots or education and do the very important work of teaching the children of Hawaii, to be better off financially than housekeepers, gardeners, and retail store workers. Can't relate... How about Doctors and Nurses who care for the health? Should they not be better off financially?
 

ScoopKona

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Should they not be better off financially?

Seems to me you have a definite order in your head about what someone's use to society is, and how much they should be paid for their time. Also, who gets to have a house, decent life, enough food to eat, reliable transportation and who doesn't.
 

Tamaradarann

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Seems to me you have a definite order in your head about what someone's use to society is, and how much they should be paid for their time. Also, who gets to have a house, decent life, enough food to eat, reliable transportation and who doesn't.

We live in a society that those who get certain jobs get better pay. Over 50 years ago in my College School Days I also believed in socialism and felt that there should be equality of income for any type of work. I read a book called Utopia and read a section of the First Book of Paul that addresses that issue. I am older now and have a different view of life.

My husband and I worked and saved all our lives and have Social Security and Retirement income to afford to live without having to work in our 70's. However, we can't afford a house in Hawaii. We have a leasehold condo unit in an older building in Honolulu. We don't have a car. We have a senior bus pass for transportation. We feel we have enough food to eat and a decent life but what the definition of what that is is different for each person. Some who live in our building must have a car to feel they have a decent life. Others that live in our building must have a Fee Simple unit to feel secure.

People make decisions in their lives to get a good education or not; to get a good job with benefits or not; to stay in a good job and work hard or not; to save or spend their money or not; what they get in life has alot to do with the decisions they made and make.

THAT IS LIFE!
 

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THAT IS LIFE!

That is life, here.

Every other developed country has sorted this out. We're the outlier.

I also find it strange that you are trying to explain socialism to someone who has "won" at capitalism. This is really simple -- Hawaii isn't Hawaii without Hawaiians. Not every one of them wants to be a computer engineer or a brain surgeon. And not everyone is cut out for those careers in the first place.

Who gets to decide who lives here and who has to leave? You?

There is already a massive diaspora of Hawaiians to the mainland because they cannot make the numbers work. Telling them, "Well, you should have paid more attention in school and obtained a better job" isn't going to bring anyone back. It is also a big source of local vs. newcomer vs. tourist friction. I'd be happier if that friction was gone.

It would be considerably easier to insist people are paid enough to live here. Work a full time job? Then that worker should be able to live here full-time as well. We need grocery clerks, servers, cooks and tour guides just as much as we need chemical engineers and hedge fund managers.
 

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It would be considerably easier to insist people are paid enough to live here. Work a full time job? Then that worker should be able to live here full-time as well. We need grocery clerks, servers, cooks and tour guides just as much as we need chemical engineers and hedge fund managers.
That leaves so many unanswered questions. Live at what standard of living? In what community? Who absorbs that cost? The business owner? If he/she must raise prices to cover it, then who is really paying? What if that prices the business out and it goes under, leaving 10 more people unemployed?

My daughter, for several years, was earning about $100k/year in SF. She could not afford her own apartment in the city and shared one with two other girls. That was the sacrifice she was willing to pay to live in the city near her job. Eventually her salary grew to the point where she could afford her own 1-br 1-bath apartment, no parking, 70 year old building (no central heat, no a/c), 3rd floor, no elevator. She has a civil engineering degree from UCB and an MBA from UCLA. Should she have been "entitled" to her own place with central heat and an elevator from day one?
 

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In what? Who? who? What if?

An awful lot of questions considering every other wealthy nation has sorted this out. I've lived in several of them. Life doesn't suck for the wealthy -- OR the average citizen. They have more-expensive areas, too. And yet, they can make it work and we cannot.

Are you suggesting we lack the ability/intelligence to do what the rest of the wealthy nations are already doing?
Again, I think this is simple: Someone who was born in Hawaii and wants to live in Hawaii should get to live in Hawaii -- so long as this person is willing to perform some useful service while living here.

And what of the people who can't do anything useful? Do we ship them all off to some lower-cost-of-living area because it might raise property taxes funding Adult Mentally Retarded programs and similar?

People keep making this out to be rocket science when it isn't -- pay people a living wage. $15/hour in Hawaii is stupid. Nobody can live on that. Frankly, it's worse than stupid. It's insulting. It's insulting that the people who run this state think that anyone can take $15/hr and 40 hours a week and make that work. It's like they don't live here and don't have to pay for anything. "Have my manservant pay for this round of golf. I'll be in the clubhouse."
 

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whether jobs that pay minimum wage should be considered jobs from which to live from, or just entry level stepping stones to jobs that can actually sustain a person or a family? Should there be an incentive to try to move up because the lower rungs of the ladder are not comfortable places to be at, or should everybody make at least a "living wage", no matter what the job entails?
This is a false choice. It is entirely possible for a "minimum wage" job to be one in which basic necessities of life---adequate food, shelter, and clothing---are within reach, while simultaneously possible for there to be an incentive to move up so something that pays better. That incentive doesn't have to be "can finally afford rent," and other incentives exist. If they didn't none of us would bother looking for more once we could meet the basics.
 

lynne

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Lynne criticized me for Long Island, you didn't. However, you don't want teachers, who have lots or education and do the very important work of teaching the children of Hawaii, to be better off financially than housekeepers, gardeners, and retail store workers. Can't relate... How about Doctors and Nurses who care for the health? Should they not be better off financially?
I did not criticize you, I was just pointing out that Long Island is not a national standard, it is an outlier for teacher salaries and benefits.

My previous post did not disparage teacher salaries, but the fact that you are holding Long Island as your model. I grew up on Long Island (50+ years) and went to grammer, middle and high as well as undergraduate school there. I did receive a great education and realize that teachers on Long Island get paid very well for the 10 months with summer and vacation time off as well as great benefits. Long Island is not a great representation of the country for teacher salaries.

All I am trying to point out is that unless you look at every state, county and township, you should not hold up a particular region as the model. I can also tell you that with the good salaries teachers are paid on Long Island, there are some disctricts that perform very poorly. I do not begrudge teacher salaries for the work they perform but they do get benefits that other professions do not receive. How many professions do you know that have holidays. winter breaks and summer off and still get medical and pension benefits.
 
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sponger76

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Lynne criticized me for Long Island, you didn't. However, you don't want teachers, who have lots or education and do the very important work of teaching the children of Hawaii, to be better off financially than housekeepers, gardeners, and retail store workers. Can't relate... How about Doctors and Nurses who care for the health? Should they not be better off financially?
They are already better off than those people you're looking down your nose at. According to salaryexpert.com the average wage in the state of Hawaii is $65,015/yr or $31.26/hr. You know those jobs are paying lower than that average. That same site says that the average public school teacher wage in Hawaii is $66,712/yr or $32.07/hr, so slightly above the average wage and definitely already more than the unwashed masses you look down on. But you want to take more from those people so you can be even higher above them.

By the way, your initial premise was that you should pay teachers more so they can create better outcomes for their students. Are teachers really going to do a better job just because they get paid more? I say no. Number one, when Hawaii's public school teachers have won raises in the past, there was absolutely zero discernible effect on outcomes for their students. In addition, much of my life private school teachers in Hawaii on average actually earned LESS than public school teachers, but their students had better outcomes, to the point that many public school teachers were sending their own kids to private school. To me, that says that the socioeconomic circumstances of the students, rather than the pay level of their teachers, was far more important to the outcome. Salary Expert says that private school teachers in Hawaii are now on average making $67,626/yr or $32.51/hr, so only slightly more now than public school teachers, and yet their student outcomes are still much higher.

As for the jobs you turn your nose up at, do you ever consider why those jobs exist? It's because they're needed. Somebody has to work in the stores, perform janitorial duties, etc. If everybody is going and getting college degrees and only working white collar jobs, who does all those other functions? Also, if everybody is highly paid, then nobody is highly paid. I do believe that teachers should be able to live without struggling. I just don't think they need to be able to afford BMWs or the like. And unlike you, I also believe that the regular people of Hawaii also deserve to live without struggling, and that we shouldn't add to their financial struggles just to put teachers even further ahead of them than they already are.

By the way, I'm not advocating for a socialist/communist utopia. I do believe that choices have consequences, such as getting a college education or not. I just don't believe in taking from the poor to give to those who are already better off, without giving them a choice. Aside from moving, these people can't get away from higher property taxes meant to pay public servants, including teachers, more even if they rent instead of own; as I said earlier, landlords will just pass the cost along. On the other hand, if employees of a business want to get paid more, whether through negotiating with management or raising the minimum wage, the business owner can raise prices to cover the additional expense. Those costs are paid by customers, who do have a choice of either paying the higher prices, going elsewhere, or just not purchasing. And if the pay goes too high to where nobody will pay the associated prices, the business goes under.
 
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Tamaradarann

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I did not criticize you, I was just pointing out that Long Island is not a national standard, it is an outlier for teacher salaries and benefits.

My previous post did not disparage teacher salaries, but the fact that you are holding Long Island as your model. I grew up on Long Island (50+ years) and went to grammer, middle and high as well as undergraduate school there. I did receive a great education and realize that teachers on Long Island get paid very well for the 10 months with summer and vacation time off as well as great benefits. Long Island is not a great representation of the country for teacher salaries.

All I am trying to point out is that unless you look at every state, county and township, you should not hold up a particular region as the model. I can also tell you that with the good salaries teachers are paid on Long Island, there are some disctricts that perform very poorly. I do not begrudge teacher salaries for the work they perform but they do get benefits that other professions do not receive. How many professions do you know that have holidays. winter breaks and summer off and still get medical and pension benefits.
I acknowledged that Long Isalnd Teachers are very well paid and I don't advocate that Hawaii try emulate them with that high a salary. However, what I take exception to is your pointed out that Hawaii is in the top 1/3 of the salaries without regard to looking at the cost of living in Hawaii versus the other states. I have no other thought with respect to your assertion.
 

Tamaradarann

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That is life, here.

Every other developed country has sorted this out. We're the outlier.

I also find it strange that you are trying to explain socialism to someone who has "won" at capitalism. This is really simple -- Hawaii isn't Hawaii without Hawaiians. Not every one of them wants to be a computer engineer or a brain surgeon. And not everyone is cut out for those careers in the first place.

Who gets to decide who lives here and who has to leave? You?

There is already a massive diaspora of Hawaiians to the mainland because they cannot make the numbers work. Telling them, "Well, you should have paid more attention in school and obtained a better job" isn't going to bring anyone back. It is also a big source of local vs. newcomer vs. tourist friction. I'd be happier if that friction was gone.

It would be considerably easier to insist people are paid enough to live here. Work a full time job? Then that worker should be able to live here full-time as well. We need grocery clerks, servers, cooks and tour guides just as much as we need chemical engineers and hedge fund managers.
My comments here have been directed here about ALL people in Hawaii in general not specifically the Native Hawaiians. If we are going to discuss issues specifically with respect to Native Hawaiians I do not choose to do that as part of this discussion. My thinking may be more radical and in favor of much more retribution and much faster action than you think.
 

ScoopKona

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My comments here have been directed here about ALL people in Hawaii in general not specifically the Native Hawaiians. If we are going to discuss issues specifically with respect to Native Hawaiians I do not choose to do that as part of this discussion. My thinking may be more radical and in favor of much more retribution and much faster action than you think.

I tend to doubt it.

Since native Hawaiians are the most apt to be hurting economically, you should have no problems raising minimum wage to the point where any Hawaiian can afford average rent, average groceries, average taxes and insurance -- an average cost of living.

And if that means $30/hr minimum wage, that's hunky dory?

I can get behind that, despite what it might mean for inflation (less than most would think.) How about you?

This is why I'm gung ho about a "tourism pays a big subsidy" plan -- much like an Alaska Permanent fund. The tourists have shown an endless capacity to spend without care on things like tater tots and fish imported from another continent.

I'm done caring what they think about economics -- because they clearly don't care, either.
 

slip

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I just want to remind people that the article never mentions the rates being a strategy for reducing tourism. It is just supplying the numbers.
 

Tamaradarann

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I tend to doubt it.

Since native Hawaiians are the most apt to be hurting economically, you should have no problems raising minimum wage to the point where any Hawaiian can afford average rent, average groceries, average taxes and insurance -- an average cost of living.

And if that means $30/hr minimum wage, that's hunky dory?

I can get behind that, despite what it might mean for inflation (less than most would think.) How about you?

This is why I'm gung ho about a "tourism pays a big subsidy" plan -- much like an Alaska Permanent fund. The tourists have shown an endless capacity to spend without care on things like tater tots and fish imported from another continent.

I'm done caring what they think about economics -- because they clearly don't care, either.
My thinking is different than yours. While your suggested $30/hr mininum might be helpful if it would be for all those in Hawaii not just Native Hawaiians so I can't agree. The history of Hawaii is such the the United States owes Native Hawaiians big time. This is NOT my thinking about all people living in Hawaii. This is about Reparations for Native Hawaiians.

Therefore, thru a combination of Federal Funding and State of Hawaii Funding all Native Hawaiians below a certain income level(Your $30/hr which is about $60K a year might be the right number) should be given a Hawaiian Homelands Grant and would not need to pay any property taxes on that land. In addition, Native Hawaiians who are below that income level should also be given stipends that bring their income up to that agreed income level. Also, since Native Hawaiians have greater health problems than other groups they should be given either free health insurance or financial supplements to enable them to buy the best health insurance plans available in Hawaii at very low rates.
 

Tamaradarann

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They are already better off than those people you're looking down your nose at. According to salaryexpert.com the average wage in the state of Hawaii is $65,015/yr or $31.26/hr. You know those jobs are paying lower than that average. That same site says that the average public school teacher wage in Hawaii is $66,712/yr or $32.07/hr, so slightly above the average wage and definitely already more than the unwashed masses you look down on. But you want to take more from those people so you can be even higher above them.

By the way, your initial premise was that you should pay teachers more so they can create better outcomes for their students. Are teachers really going to do a better job just because they get paid more? I say no. Number one, when Hawaii's public school teachers have won raises in the past, there was absolutely zero discernible effect on outcomes for their students. In addition, much of my life private school teachers in Hawaii on average actually earned LESS than public school teachers, but their students had better outcomes, to the point that many public school teachers were sending their own kids to private school. To me, that says that the socioeconomic circumstances of the students, rather than the pay level of their teachers, was far more important to the outcome. Salary Expert says that private school teachers in Hawaii are now on average making $67,626/yr or $32.51/hr, so only slightly more now than public school teachers, and yet their student outcomes are still much higher.

As for the jobs you turn your nose up at, do you ever consider why those jobs exist? It's because they're needed. Somebody has to work in the stores, perform janitorial duties, etc. If everybody is going and getting college degrees and only working white collar jobs, who does all those other functions? Also, if everybody is highly paid, then nobody is highly paid. I do believe that teachers should be able to live without struggling. I just don't think they need to be able to afford BMWs or the like. And unlike you, I also believe that the regular people of Hawaii also deserve to live without struggling, and that we shouldn't add to their financial struggles just to put teachers even further ahead of them than they already are.

By the way, I'm not advocating for a socialist/communist utopia. I do believe that choices have consequences, such as getting a college education or not. I just don't believe in taking from the poor to give to those who are already better off, without giving them a choice. Aside from moving, these people can't get away from higher property taxes meant to pay public servants, including teachers, more even if they rent instead of own; as I said earlier, landlords will just pass the cost along. On the other hand, if employees of a business want to get paid more, whether through negotiating with management or raising the minimum wage, the business owner can raise prices to cover the additional expense. Those costs are paid by customers, who do have a choice of either paying the higher prices, going elsewhere, or just not purchasing. And if the pay goes too high to where nobody will pay the associated prices, the business goes under.
 

Tamaradarann

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From your response I can see that you don't have the same respect for those that teach our children that I do and you feel that getting the average wage of all those that work in Hawaii is sufficient. I asked what you thought about Doctors and Nurses. Should they also be paid the average wage ofall those that work in Hawaii?

The purpose of paying more for teachers is not to get the existing teachers to teach better, it is to attract and retain the best people in that profession since it is a well paying profession. The retention is not just in the field of teaching it is the retention in the State of Hawaii.

I don't turn up my nose at any job. I have respect for all those that work for a living. In fact one of the jobs that do not take education nor a great deal of training and experience that I hold in very high esteem is Home Health Aid. That is another profession that needs to be paid much better. Why would anyone want to work as a home health aide and have to do some of the things that an aide is called on to do when they can dress up in nice clothes and work as a department store clerk and make the same or even better money?

Since we do not live in a socialist society where according to the letter in the Bible from Paul to the Corithians:
"Now at this time your abundance may supply their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: people do what they can and receive what they need with equality as the result." Some professions warrant and do get paid better. Teachers do get paid better in locations other than Hawaii particularly when you take the high cost of living into consideration.
 

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From your response I can see that you don't have the same respect for those that teach our children that I do and you feel that getting the average wage of all those that work in Hawaii is sufficient. I asked what you thought about Doctors and Nurses. Should they also be paid the average wage ofall those that work in Hawaii?

The purpose of paying more for teachers is not to get the existing teachers to teach better, it is to attract and retain the best people in that profession since it is a well paying profession. The retention is not just in the field of teaching it is the retention in the State of Hawaii.

I don't turn up my nose at any job. I have respect for all those that work for a living. In fact one of the jobs that do not take education nor a great deal of training and experience that I hold in very high esteem is Home Health Aid. That is another profession that needs to be paid much better. Why would anyone want to work as a home health aide and have to do some of the things that an aide is called on to do when they can dress up in nice clothes and work as a department store clerk and make the same or even better money?

Since we do not live in a socialist society where according to the letter in the Bible from Paul to the Corithians:
"Now at this time your abundance may supply their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: people do what they can and receive what they need with equality as the result." Some professions warrant and do get paid better. Teachers do get paid better in locations other than Hawaii particularly when you take the high cost of living into consideration.
Doctors and nurses (especially higher levels of nursing) require more training at more cost, and far more specialized knowledge than a lot of teachers do. In addition, they literally have life and death in their hands. So yes, they deserve higher pay than teachers and lot of other professions, though I do think that some make obscene amounts, and usually in vanity professions such as plastic surgery rather than those that actually are working daily to save lives. Teachers serve an important function in society, but so do many other jobs, and aside from a very few, most teachers do not have life-changing impacts on their students that totally turn their lives around. A lot of people can follow a lesson plan and grade homework/tests from an answer sheet. So aside from finding a way to identify and reward those few special teachers that really do impact and change students' lives, no, I don't think that the average teacher needs or deserves more than the average wage. I'd rather focus on ways to make it more affordable for everyone who does live and work in Hawaii. That in turn would also improve the lives of teachers. Besides, I thought most teachers (initially, before they get jaded like the vast majority I've encountered) enter the profession because of the ideal of helping others. If they're looking to join the profession to help themselves get rich at everyone else's expense, they're going into the wrong profession.
 

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My thinking is different than yours. While your suggested $30/hr mininum might be helpful if it would be for all those in Hawaii not just Native Hawaiians so I can't agree. The history of Hawaii is such the the United States owes Native Hawaiians big time. This is NOT my thinking about all people living in Hawaii. This is about Reparations for Native Hawaiians.

So, is it fair to say that for you, it's all about "who deserves to have a nice life and who deserves to suffer?"
 

Tamaradarann

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Doctors and nurses (especially higher levels of nursing) require more training at more cost, and far more specialized knowledge than a lot of teachers do. In addition, they literally have life and death in their hands. So yes, they deserve higher pay than teachers and lot of other professions, though I do think that some make obscene amounts, and usually in vanity professions such as plastic surgery rather than those that actually are working daily to save lives. Teachers serve an important function in society, but so do many other jobs, and aside from a very few, most teachers do not have life-changing impacts on their students that totally turn their lives around. A lot of people can follow a lesson plan and grade homework/tests from an answer sheet. So aside from finding a way to identify and reward those few special teachers that really do impact and change students' lives, no, I don't think that the average teacher needs or deserves more than the average wage. I'd rather focus on ways to make it more affordable for everyone who does live and work in Hawaii. That in turn would also improve the lives of teachers. Besides, I thought most teachers (initially, before they get jaded like the vast majority I've encountered) enter the profession because of the ideal of helping others. If they're looking to join the profession to help themselves get rich at everyone else's expense, they're going into the wrong profession.

That is great that you recognize that Doctors and Nurses should be paid more than the average worker in Hawaii do to their important role in the caring for the health of the population. Now I want to focus on your statement:

"Teachers serve an important function in society, but so do many other jobs,"

That was my point in bringing up the example of Home Health Aide or Homecare Aide. These workers serve an extremely important function in society as we get older and can't do for ourselves. They are a group that is underpaid and should be paid more do to their important role in caring for the elderly population. There is going to be a greater need for these workers as the average population ages and it is imperative that the pay is adaquate to attract and retain good workers in this field.

I think we can agree that certain jobs should pay more do to the important role they play in our society. It is apparent that we can't agree on the teaching profession as one of those that play important role and should be paid more in Hawaii.
 

Tamaradarann

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So, is it fair to say that for you, it's all about "who deserves to have a nice life and who deserves to suffer.

It is apparent that you want to argue on this thread no matter what anybody says even if they agree with you. I was responding to your statement about Native Hawaiians:

"Since native Hawaiians are the most apt to be hurting economically, you should have no problems raising minimum wage to the point where any Hawaiian can afford average rent, average groceries, average taxes and insurance -- an average cost of living."

and your previous statement:

"Hawaii isn't Hawaii without Hawaiians"

I was agreeing with you that Native Hawaiians should not be priced out of living in Hawaii.

As far as others, all people need to make decisions and then deal with the consequences of those decisions. Should one get a good education and/or training? Is there a need for people educated in that field and how does it pay in Hawaii? Should one live in Hawaii or with one's training and skill perhaps another location is better to have a comfortable life? Where in Hawaii should one live? Does one have a car or rely on public transportation. Does one need to work a full time job or a number of jobs to live comfortably.

It is not as you said "For Me it's all about" We do not live in a society where one can choose to work in any job, for any amount of time, in any location, and then live in any location and expect to live comfortably. Decisions have consequences. I have made mine in the past and I am continuing to make decisions with respect to these factors to enable me and may familty to live in Hawaii comfortably. Others need to make theirs.
 

ScoopKona

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It is apparent that you want to argue on this thread no matter what anybody says even if they agree with you.

I'm just looking for even a little consistency. You seem to be bankrupt on that.

You seem to be far more concerned with whether someone is deserving of decent wages than actually fixing any problems. And none of the fixes had better affect your pocketbook.

If you were concerned with the plight of native Hawaiians, you wouldn't be in favor of raising their property taxes. You wouldn't be in favor of taking money from them and giving it to teachers.

And I can't see how anyone looks at a $15/hour minimum wage in this state and thinks, "Great! This is awesome! Problem solved! Break out the good champagne!"

Nobody can live on $15/hour. That barely covers rent with nothing else. My neighbors deserve better than this.
 

sponger76

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That is great that you recognize that Doctors and Nurses should be paid more than the average worker in Hawaii do to their important role in the caring for the health of the population. Now I want to focus on your statement:

"Teachers serve an important function in society, but so do many other jobs,"

That was my point in bringing up the example of Home Health Aide or Homecare Aide. These workers serve an extremely important function in society as we get older and can't do for ourselves. They are a group that is underpaid and should be paid more do to their important role in caring for the elderly population. There is going to be a greater need for these workers as the average population ages and it is imperative that the pay is adaquate to attract and retain good workers in this field.

I think we can agree that certain jobs should pay more do to the important role they play in our society. It is apparent that we can't agree on the teaching profession as one of those that play important role and should be paid more in Hawaii.
The thing with doctors, nurses and even home health/homecare aides is that their salaries are not typically paid for by taxes. Most of them work for private companies that get paid by their clients (or, more accurately/often, their clients' insurance). The free market determines what they get paid. There is no free market for determining public school teacher wages, they just make an agreement with the government and it gets forced down the taxpayer's throat.
 

Henry M.

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Many topics being discussed.

Where I live, very few steady jobs pay the legal minimum wage. Any business that wants to get workers has to pay significantly above minimum wage, even McDonalds and Walmart. Migrant workers make more than $15/hr. Most people I know in Hawaii also make more than $15/hr. I don't see how you would be able to sustain yourself, much less a family, staying at a job that can get away with paying the minimum wage. There is usually a supply and demand related reason why a given job pays what it does. You need to move beyond the bottom job levels to be able to live better. I give people more credit than thinking they can't improve from where they currently are.

I've lived in many parts of the world, and none offer the opportunity to get ahead that exists in the US. European socialism is not a panacea and life is not much better there than here, especially for those that try to work hard to get ahead. It is much more difficult to climb the economic ladder there. Trying to have equality of outcomes pretty much kills equality of opportunity to go above and beyond your current status.

According to HHS.gov, there are about 1.4 million native Hawaiians, of which only about 355,000 (~25%) live in Hawaii. Given these demographics, how long do you think it will take for the population to be diluted as it mixes with non-native people? What rule can you put in place that won't be to the long term detriment of the native people, as they are unable to give their property to their descendants that stopped being 1/8 (or whatever proportion is deemed proper) Hawaiian? How is the proposed racism (in this case against non-Hawaiians) justified?
 
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