Maui Bay Villas (MBV) Resale Tracking

[Jace]

Does anyone know or could reasonably speculate what this seller likely paid HGVC in October 2023 for this 38,400 2PX Deed direct to Hilton?

 

[mountainboy]

Does anyone know or could reasonably speculate what this seller likely paid HGVC in October 2023 for this 38,400 2PX Deed direct to Hilton?

? May do a quick deed search, as you know the sellers name (from your contract) ...
Their purchase deed should have $ info...

 

[GT75]

Does anyone know or could reasonably speculate what this seller likely paid HGVC in October 2023 for this 38,400 2PX Deed direct to Hilton?

You can search the county documents, but I would estimate $5/pt = $192,000 (wow, is that correct?).

 

[Jace]

I did find the deed but there is no price actually listed within the 9 pages.

 

[mountainboy]

I did find the deed but there is no price actually listed within the 9 pages.

View attachment 107713View attachment 107714

Sometimes they have multiple listed; I recall looking at Clark county for an Elara deed; one listed $, the other recorded document did not (not sure why, newbie here).
Or may be a county thing (not listing $). Not sure. Defer to Pros.

A retail purchase Elara deed with 2 Platinum 1 BR Grand, weeks = 22,400 HGV pts was $100k, so def right in line with @GT75 's back of napkin calculation of $192k purchase price on this.

YOLO + FOMO = $$$$$$

 

[Sapper]

Sometimes they have multiple listed; I recall looking at Clark county for an Elara deed; one listed $, the other recorded document did not (not sure why, newbie here).
Or may be a county thing (not listing $). Not sure. Defer to Pros.

A retail purchase Elara deed with 2 Platinum 1 BR Grand, weeks = 22,400 HGV pts was $100k, so def right in line with @GT75 's back of napkin calculation of $192k purchase price on this.

YOLO + FOMO = $$$$$$

I did not know Clark county listed the original sales price. I also recently purchased (resale) a pair of Elara units, so looked them up. They are both 2 bedroom grand (2LK) platinum, 14,720pts/ea (29,440 points total). The original sales price was $122k In 2022! I am SHOCKED someone paid this much. ”Resale” for the win! Also, another data point that supports @GT75 ’s estimate.

 

[Jace]

I did not know Clark county listed the original sales price. I also recently purchased (resale) a pair of Elara units, so looked them up. They are both 2 bedroom grand (2LK) platinum, 14,720pts/ea (29,440 points total). The original sales price was $122k In 2022! I am SHOCKED someone paid this much. ”Resale” for the win! Also, another data point that supports @GT75 ’s estimate.

Yes, $28k for this fairly new property seems like a steal.

 

[DazedandConfused]

assume you could make 8%/yr on $30K

I have been a member of TUG and other bbs for many years that these statements of "compare your purchase to the money you can make at xx% in the bank" really annoy me as yes, factually it is a correct statement, BUT nobody ever does that. It is IMPOSSIBLE to guarantee 8% interest every year and during the pre-covid days, the interest rate was less than 1%. Now, of course, you are probably referring to the historical average of the stock market and are assuming it will continue to follow that path, BUT what about during times when the market crashes, and people panic and sell at the bottom. In fact, I could argue the opposite and that buying a timeshare removes money from your account and during a stock market crash you are actually saving the money you potentially would have lost.

Seriously, this is a timeshare, if you can afford it and can use it correctly and enjoy it, then that's all that matters. This concept of comparing the money used to purchase a timeshare vs 8% ROI is ridiculous. Do you use the same when buying a car....skip the fancy Lexus and buy a cheap used Toyota and invest the difference in the market at 8% and become a millionaire in 30 years. Do you do the same calculations with flying first class vs coach middle seat near the bathroom. What about kids private vs public education. What about never dining at a restaurant and save the money in the market and get rich eating at home.

I get the math and the concept here, but in reality nobody every says I am not going to buy a timeshare and put the money into the stock market and then vacation on the dividends or wait 20 years to sell. So the comparison is silly.

 

[Jace]

Not necessarily the case from what I was told. HGVC has 3 or 4 or 5 "official" brokers they use to TRANSACT these deeds when the owners contact HGVC about buying it back. Owner still using & paying MF, but wants to sell. If in Japan, they are not sure how to do it, so first contact is to call HGVC. HGVC knows owner won't give it away. HGVC wants/needs a 3rd party assessment of its value before taking it back at "$N". HGVC puts it into the inventory of the 3 or 4 or 5 "official" brokers and one of those handle the transaction. That is what brokers do.
HGVC may well ROFR it, but they want a "fair" price at which they would do that, or else the TS biz gets even worse publicity.
I do believe it was Diane who told me that, but pieces were filled in by > 1 broker.

I used Diane on this one. I found this originally listed on Fidelity for $72,000. I asked Diane if she could help learn more about it , she found it in the official Hilton resale inventory. We discussed my offer and she felt it was worth a shot , and it was accepted with no negotiation. ( I guess I could have offered less )

We have passed ROFR and are now in deed recording phase.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I have been a member of TUG and other bbs for many years that these statements of "compare your purchase to the money you can make at xx% in the bank" really annoy me as yes, factually it is a correct statement, BUT nobody ever does that. It is IMPOSSIBLE to guarantee 8% interest every year and during the pre-covid days, the interest rate was less than 1%. Now, of course, you are probably referring to the historical average of the stock market and are assuming it will continue to follow that path, BUT what about during times when the market crashes, and people panic and sell at the bottom. In fact, I could argue the opposite and that buying a timeshare removes money from your account and during a stock market crash you are actually saving the money you potentially would have lost.

Seriously, this is a timeshare, if you can afford it and can use it correctly and enjoy it, then that's all that matters. This concept of comparing the money used to purchase a timeshare vs 8% ROI is ridiculous. Do you use the same when buying a car....skip the fancy Lexus and buy a cheap used Toyota and invest the difference in the market at 8% and become a millionaire in 30 years. Do you do the same calculations with flying first class vs coach middle seat near the bathroom. What about kids private vs public education. What about never dining at a restaurant and save the money in the market and get rich eating at home.

I get the math and the concept here, but in reality nobody every says I am not going to buy a timeshare and put the money into the stock market and then vacation on the dividends or wait 20 years to sell. So the comparison is silly.

I fundamentally agree with your thoughts here and agree when resale purchase price is low. The loss of principal doesn't matter much if you plan to use it over 10 - 20 years. I paid so little for my resales that if I lose 75% - 100% of value of a $5000 resale purchase - so what? This is not going to bankrupt me and as you state - people pay far more for a car.

What is crazy is when developer purchases approach $100,000 or more. A better statement would be to say if you set aside $100,000 paying at 4.5%/year (more attainable CD rate) you would have $4500 per year to spend on renting a timeshare.

When you are finished you also have your $100,000 principle and no hassle to exit. You cannot recoup your principal with a developer purchase but you can with this method - although more hassle and risk to find and secure rentals but greater flexibility - go anywhere and no club rules that change every year. Lose your job or life change? No problem. Just don't travel for a year and apply the interest to your life.

 

[Jace]

Aloha!

Just updating my resale purchase timeline:

Feb 3, 2025 - Offer of $28k submitted and Diane is coordinating directly HGVC Resale department [List price $68.5k]
Feb 11, 2025 - Offer accepted
Feb 13, 2025 - Buyer Signed Sales Agreement
Feb 14, 2025 - Seller Signed Agreement
Feb 14, 2025 - TRCS Closing Escrow Established and contract moving to HGVC
Mar 24, 2025 - TRCS Final Funds Sent
Mar 26, 2025 - Deed Recorded
Apr 3, 2025 - HGV Finalize Transfer, points in member account

Thanks for following this journey. Look forward to using the points!

 

[Chris-ATX]

Congrats @Jace on this deal!

 

[DazedandConfused]

Feb 3, 2025 - Offer of $28k submitted and Diane is coordinating directly HGVC Resale department [List price $68.5k]
Apr 3, 2025 - HGV Finalize Transfer, points in member account
Thanks for following this journey. Look forward to using the points!

Congrats on your purchase. Very good price. Now imaging how MUCH you SAVED by buying this timeshare and NOT investing in the stock market.....

 

[jp10558]

I fundamentally agree with your thoughts here and agree when resale purchase price is low. The loss of principal doesn't matter much if you plan to use it over 10 - 20 years. I paid so little for my resales that if I lose 75% - 100% of value of a $5000 resale purchase - so what? This is not going to bankrupt me and as you state - people pay far more for a car.

What is crazy is when developer purchases approach $100,000 or more. A better statement would be to say if you set aside $100,000 paying at 4.5%/year (more attainable CD rate) you would have $4500 per year to spend on renting a timeshare.

When you are finished you also have your $100,000 principle and no hassle to exit. You cannot recoup your principal with a developer purchase but you can with this method - although more hassle and risk to find and secure rentals but greater flexibility - go anywhere and no club rules that change every year. Lose your job or life change? No problem. Just don't travel for a year and apply the interest to your life.

I fully agree - the retail purchase of TSs make very little financial sense as TUG has shown again and again. TimeshareTraveler figured you could break even compared to hotel stays in about 10 years. But we never did the math on interest earnings on the principal / buy in price.

And you're also really correct on resale purchases - when the buy in is averaging $2,000 for me... We've all said it so many times, the "outside world" calculates TSs based on retail purchases, but if you're basically just considering the maintenance fees - they become real compelling pretty quickly.

And just in general - so many arguments about "just invest the money". Or with reward cards "just do cash back.". That's both often impractical (it's gotten better, but I remember paying a fee for each retail stock market purchase which would usually kill any returns on "small dollar amount" buys), and completely misses that in many situations people value something more than money. It's also usually in investments a bad idea to cash anything out when the market is down, so if I had invested $10,000 say in the stock market, and I wanted to book my next trip - selling it today would actually hurt that "8% return" quite a bit. On the reward cards I regularly see FNCs plus points use as well as higher points on certain purchases, especially with the same company, have redemption values that exceed 2% of most cash back cards. Of course, this does assume, like timeshares, that you're going to book some accommodations to use the points for instead.