Marriott Vacation Worldwide Executive Leadership - here lies the inherent flaw/strategic failure/conflict of interest in MVC’s Executive Leadership

[WBP]

I encourage those interested in understanding the root cause of MVC’s strategic failures and its pattern of bullying owners to take a closer look at the biographies and backgrounds of MVW’s executive leadership.

If you look carefully, you will notice that none of MVW’s executive leaders have credible experience in resort lodging, hospitality, resort services, homeowner association management, or food and beverage—all critical components of the MVC “owner experience.” Instead, you’ll find a majority of leaders with backgrounds primarily in timeshare sales and marketing. These individuals are not "hoteliers" or experienced professionals in lodging, hospitality, or HOA governance. They are, essentially, career timeshare salespeople.

This lack of relevant expertise is at the heart of MVW’s leadership shortcomings and the risks MVC owners face.

It’s perplexing that Marriott International allows this within one of their prominent franchisees. Perhaps the presence of Bill Shaw as MVW's token Marriott leader of MVW, allows the company to bypass scrutiny.

It’s long overdue to call out these issues and hold MVW accountable for the operations of MVW and MVC, including resort operations, HOA governance, and owner services. The inherent flaws of having sales and marketing professionals lead resort operations and HOA strategy must be addressed. It's time to challenge MVW/MVC's leadership approach.

 

[dioxide45]

The only way to effect change is to vote with your wallet. Stop buying more, stop buying food and beverage at the resorts or just stop going to the resorts. Only and until they start to see a slide in revenue will things really change in the way of leadership at the top. If you keep going and spending money with the company, what incentive is there to change?

 

[WBP]

The only way to effect change is to vote with your wallet. Stop buying more, stop buying food and beverage at the resorts or just stop going to the resorts. Only and until they start to see a slide in revenue will things really change in the way of leadership at the top. If you keep going and spending money with the company, what incentive is there to change?

You make a very respectible point.

I believe the Executive Leaders metric, is not as your suggest, but the incidence that MVC owners purchase additional points (reload), while they are on vacation. It seems that this Executive Leadership Team is entirely fueled by the sale of points. Hell, they have gone so far as to impress upon their hourly employees (e.g. pool attendant) that a primary function of their job is not guest check-in, guest experience, food and beverage, etc, but, to sell more points. I know plenty of MCVI operations staff, who argue that “selling points” is not their job, and not what they signed up for.

 

[dioxide45]

It certainly does seem that the entire checkin experience is to get you to sign up for a presentation. While the front desk staff doesn't do that, they do usher you over to the "concierge". This isn't anything new and has been this way for decades. For sales it seems to be all about bodies through the sales floor.

We were already contacted to do a tour for an upcoming stay next month in Kauai. We will actually be at 11 different Marriott and Vistana properties. Some only for a night or two and others for a week. It will be interesting how many times they ask us to attend and even more interesting how many times they let us attend when I tell them we were just at one. I suspect it will be once per island per brand. So twice on Kauai, once on Oahu and twice on Maui. We shall see if this proves to be true.

 

[davidvel]

I’d encourage those who may be interested in getting to the Root Cause of MVC’s strategic failures, predisposition to bullying owners, and "mantra to conquer and defeat” to look no further - - carefully - - at the biographies and DNA of MVW’s alleged Executive Leaders.

If you look, carefully, you will NOT FIND leaders who have a credible biography in resort lodging, resort hospitality, resort services, homeowner association management, or, for that matter, food and beverage, ALL critical components of an MVC’s “owner experience,” amongst, MVC’s/MVW’s Executive Leaders. But, instead, what you will find is a preponderance of Executive Leaders who are career, timeshare sharks; sharks who have dedicated much of their professional careers to peddling timeshare sales, and sales and marketing. These are not “hoteliers.” These are not lodging, hospital, and HOA Governance professionals, they are pigs wearing lipstick (in some cases, each, earning more than $1M, annually).

These are pigs wearing lipstick, impersonating lodging, hospitality, and condominium home ownership management and professionals.

There lies the Root Cause of MVW’s Executive Leadership shortcomings and flaws, and the risks that MVC owners are subject to.

i’m perplexed that Marriott International allows this of one of their Big Player franchisees, but, it cold be that by having Bill Shaw as MVW’s token (M.I.) Leader, that MVW gets away with it.

It is long time, and long past due to call a spade a spade, and to hold MVW accountable for the operations of MVW and MVC, including resort operations, resort/HOA Governance, and Owner Services. I am more convinced than ever, that there are inherent, strategic flaws in having sales and marketing leaders, leading the resort operations and strategic directions of MVC’s HOA’s. It is time to call MVW/MVC’s bluff.

I don't disagree, but do not expect the change you seek. Everything you describe is completely intentional, to maximize profits. Beyond just selling points, they also make money off of how much the HOA (owners) spend on resort expenses, and control this process. I don't expect any of this to change.

 

[Pennytx]

It certainly does seem that the entire checkin experience is to get you to sign up for a presentation. While the front desk staff doesn't do that, they do usher you over to the "concierge". This isn't anything new and has been this way for decades. For sales it seems to be all about bodies through the sales floor.

We were already contacted to do a tour for an upcoming stay next month in Kauai. We will actually be at 11 different Marriott and Vistana properties. Some only for a night or two and others for a week. It will be interesting how many times they ask us to attend and even more interesting how many times they let us attend when I tell them we were just at one. I suspect it will be once per island per brand. So twice on Kauai, once on Oahu and twice on Maui. We shall see if this proves to be true.

So will you be walking each of them ? I would depending on the offer

 

[dioxide45]

So will you be walking each of them ? I would depending on the offer

If they ask, we are likely to go. I am always sure to tell them I just took one and if they say okay, then we're in. Last summer when we did a west coast swing we did six tours over two months. It's the best way to replenish the Bonvoy points balance. Cheaper than spending $100,000 on the Bonvoy credit card.

 

[Pennytx]

Good for you
Kindred spirit

 

[WBP]

No surprise here — this only confirms what many of us have suspected for a long time: MVC/MVW is, at its core, a timeshare sales and marketing organization. Guest experience, resort operations, and HOA governance seem largely treated as afterthoughts.

Frankly, if leaders specializing in resort experience, guest satisfaction, and HOA governance — disciplines rooted in true hospitality — are not regarded as equals within MVC/MVW’s Executive Leadership team, then something is deeply wrong with that leadership structure.

I’ve suspected this for quite some time. But, it took a conversation with Pope Francis to truly see it clearly.

 

[Dean]

It certainly does seem that the entire checkin experience is to get you to sign up for a presentation. While the front desk staff doesn't do that, they do usher you over to the "concierge". This isn't anything new and has been this way for decades. For sales it seems to be all about bodies through the sales floor.

We were already contacted to do a tour for an upcoming stay next month in Kauai. We will actually be at 11 different Marriott and Vistana properties. Some only for a night or two and others for a week. It will be interesting how many times they ask us to attend and even more interesting how many times they let us attend when I tell them we were just at one. I suspect it will be once per island per brand. So twice on Kauai, once on Oahu and twice on Maui. We shall see if this proves to be true.

As you note, MVC has always done this to one degree or another. However,I don't recall ever experiencing this at check-in in an aggressive manner. It's usually just a card or sentence about stoping by and getting a welcome gift and/or dining/activity recommendations. As compared to others like Bluegreen or Wyndham where they basically force you to the concierge to get parking passes and are generally very aggressive about trying to get one to sign up for a tour. On a recent weekend trip to the Wyndham PCB, we skipped the concierge completely after checking in planning to stop by after dinner. The concierge literally chased us out the door yelling that we wouldn't be allowed on property without stopping by. The only company where I don't see this is DVC. On our recent HI trip I experienced something I haven't previously, an invitation later in the week to come by and get a departure gift. It was a hook to try to sell an encore package. When asked about buying an encore package, my answer is always the same. Give me a confirmed reservation for our week at MGO at the prices quoted and we have something to talk about. That has never failed to shut down any discussion on the matter because it's never one of the options.

No surprise here — this only confirms what many of us have suspected for a long time: MVC/MVW is, at its core, a timeshare sales and marketing organization. Guest experience, resort operations, and HOA governance seem largely treated as afterthoughts.

I would think anyone who's owned or know about timeshares for any length of time knew or should have known this. They make money on sales and on management.

Frankly, if leaders specializing in resort experience, guest satisfaction, and HOA governance — disciplines rooted in true hospitality — are not regarded as equals within MVC/MVW’s Executive Leadership team, then something is deeply wrong with that leadership structure.

In generally I believe they do care about these as well both at the resort level and at the top. But they are not necessarily competing concepts. And having resorts in active sales does offer a certain amount of protection to the rest of the owners

 

[geist1223]

View attachment 109531

I encourage those interested in understanding the root cause of MVC’s strategic failures and its pattern of bullying owners to take a closer look at the biographies and backgrounds of MVW’s executive leadership.

If you look carefully, you will notice that none of MVW’s executive leaders have credible experience in resort lodging, hospitality, resort services, homeowner association management, or food and beverage—all critical components of the MVC “owner experience.” Instead, you’ll find a majority of leaders with backgrounds primarily in timeshare sales and marketing. These individuals are not "hoteliers" or experienced professionals in lodging, hospitality, or HOA governance. They are, essentially, career timeshare salespeople.

This lack of relevant expertise is at the heart of MVW’s leadership shortcomings and the risks MVC owners face.

It’s perplexing that Marriott International allows this within one of their prominent franchisees. Perhaps the presence of Bill Shaw as MVW's token Marriott leader of MVW, allows the company to bypass scrutiny.

It’s long overdue to call out these issues and hold MVW accountable for the operations of MVW and MVC, including resort operations, HOA governance, and owner services. The inherent flaws of having sales and marketing professionals lead resort operations and HOA strategy must be addressed. It's time to challenge MVW/MVC's leadership approach.

This is actually very common with all major Timeshare Corporations. Senior Management does not value those on the Guest Services/Resort Management side of the House. They are not seen as Income Producers.

 

[craigc]

The only way to effect change is to vote with your wallet. Stop buying more, stop buying food and beverage at the resorts or just stop going to the resorts. Only and until they start to see a slide in revenue will things really change in the way of leadership at the top. If you keep going and spending money with the company, what incentive is there to change?

Ok....some valid points here and agree that I am not 100% thrilled with everything about this program but did people really think MVC was not a Sales and Marketing company? Unless you bought resale, did we not all go to a sales/marketing presentation where we bought pts/weeks ? And as for "bullying" that is not what I have experienced at all and certainly not from the front desk/check in people. I am at the level of points that gets us to where we want to go every year so I just say no to future presentations.....its that simple. Once I do, there is NO bullying at all. Now those that want the gift certs/pts for a presentation, you go for it but you better be informed and realize the person on the other end is in SALES and that is their job.

And "or just stop going to the resorts".....really? So I'm going to cancel my 12 upcoming rezy's (13 if I ever get into WSJ) and then pay maintenance fees on my 13500 pts and not go so that MVC will understand I do not like everything about this program. Maybe I have not had enough coffee yet this morning but this does not sound like something ANY of us will do.

 

[dioxide45]

And "or just stop going to the resorts".....really? So I'm going to cancel my 12 upcoming rezy's (13 if I ever get into WSJ) and then pay maintenance fees on my 13500 pts and not go so that MVC will understand I do not like everything about this program. Maybe I have not had enough coffee yet this morning but this does not sound like something ANY of us will do.

If someone is so unhappy with a product, why do they continue to own it? It seems like the OP is dissatisfied with the resort experience. If that is the case, they should sell, give away or otherwise move on. It isn't worth the trouble to go through life using a product or service they are unhappy with.

It should also be noted that contract sales make up about 60% of the revenue of Marriott Vacations Worldwide. That is pretty significant as total revenue also includes many other segments such as exchange and resort management. Sales is what makes money and money is what drives up the companies overall value.

Edited to add: We also often receive guest satisfaction surveys after our stay at the resorts. The resort management does take these surveys very seriously. So fill them out, good or bad, but it is another way to let your voice be heard. If there is an unpleasant experience with marketing at checkin, let them know. We often also receive a mid stay quick survey and I have at times voiced an issue that was quickly resolved. If the marketing push is negatively impacting your stay, then let them know that. We really can't institute change in leadership unless we are investors who own shares that can vote. Even if we do own shares, it is doubtful that we own enough to make it matter. There are a few ways we can voice our opinion and coming here to do it can make us feel better, but for the most part the comments here won't be used to determine the strategic direction of Marriott Vacations.

 

[WBP]

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[billymach4]

As much as I love to hate on Marriott I am what I would guess is a loyal customer. I don't own any TS outside of the Marriott Brand. However they are after all in the business to earn a profit. So they must always have to $ell new Points/Timeshares.

Someone has to purchase from Marriott so we can enjoy the resale market.

 

[dioxide45]

As you note, MVC has always done this to one degree or another. However,I don't recall ever experiencing this at check-in in an aggressive manner. It's usually just a card or sentence about stoping by and getting a welcome gift and/or dining/activity recommendations. As compared to others like Bluegreen or Wyndham where they basically force you to the concierge to get parking passes and are generally very aggressive about trying to get one to sign up for a tour. On a recent weekend trip to the Wyndham PCB, we skipped the concierge completely after checking in planning to stop by after dinner. The concierge literally chased us out the door yelling that we wouldn't be allowed on property without stopping by.

I've had the same happen at Club Wyndham Grand Desert. I checked in and needed to ask my wife what might be a good day to do a tour, because we almost always sign up for the tour. She was in the car. After checkin in I started to walk outside to ask her. The concierge chased me out the door telling me I needed to go and complete my checkin with them. The only thing Club Wyndham concierge gives you is wristbands that you don't necessarily need. You get a keycard and parking pass at checkin. They'll also give you a list of certain places that offer discounts to resort guests, but overall there is no actual need to visit them except for them to try to sign you up for a presentation.

PBC was the site where we got the best gift incentive for a timeshare presentation. Probably worth about $1200 in how we plan to use it.

 

[SueDonJ]

I encourage those interested in understanding the root cause of MVC’s strategic failures and its pattern of bullying owners to take a closer look at the biographies and backgrounds of MVW’s executive leadership.

If you look carefully, you will notice that none of MVW’s executive leaders have credible experience in resort lodging, hospitality, resort services, homeowner association management, or food and beverage—all critical components of the MVC “owner experience.” Instead, you’ll find a majority of leaders with backgrounds primarily in timeshare sales and marketing. These individuals are not "hoteliers" or experienced professionals in lodging, hospitality, or HOA governance. They are, essentially, career timeshare salespeople.

This lack of relevant expertise is at the heart of MVW’s leadership shortcomings and the risks MVC owners face.

It’s perplexing that Marriott International allows this within one of their prominent franchisees. Perhaps the presence of Bill Shaw as MVW's token Marriott leader of MVW, allows the company to bypass scrutiny.

It’s long overdue to call out these issues and hold MVW accountable for the operations of MVW and MVC, including resort operations, HOA governance, and owner services. The inherent flaws of having sales and marketing professionals lead resort operations and HOA strategy must be addressed. It's time to challenge MVW/MVC's leadership approach.

I'm a longtime owner of Marriott timeshares and have had fairly extensive conversations with many MVW execs/employees over the years, some of those relating only to my ownership and how it's impacted by the governing docs/legislation and some of those to try to dig deeper into issues raised on TUG. I wouldn't say they're forthcoming 100% of the time but then again, I wouldn't expect them to be. (IMO that's not a reasonable expectation of people who hold Exec board seats in any company, especially when some of the questions being asked are related to known ongoing legal issues.) But I would say that every time I've come away feeling satisfied that they heard my issues and either provided, or led me in the proper direction to find, information that answered what I felt were reasonable questions. But, let's dig in anyway.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide - Executive Leadership

In reviewing the short biographies of the three MVW executives (President and CEO Geller; President, Vacation Ownership Miller; Exec VP and Chief Human Resources ... Yonker) who it should be expected would have the most oversight over what you call the "owner experience," I don't know how a person can walk away thinking that they don't have sufficient "credible experience" in all facets of ownership. Obviously their bios don't say if/when they've ever individually worked any of the front-line onsite resort personnel positions (front desk, maintenance, security, activities etc) but to make the claim that they don't have credible experience for the positions they now hold and/or the resultant ability to see things from the owners' perspective is, I think, a farfetched at best claim. And obviously it needs acknowledging that because MVW is a publicly-traded company, the growth of VAC for its shareholders should absolutely be an equally-important standard expectation.

Mr. Geller "... served as a partner in [Ernst & Young's] real estate and hospitality practice ..." before moving to Marriott, Int'l and then MVW, working on the spin-off and eventually becoming CFO of the timeshare segments. Since becoming Pres and CEO of MVW he's overseen the impacts and recovery from COVID and several devastating natural disasters, which resulted in Marriott timeshare owners being made more whole than other timeshare companies made their owners. Of course I'm saying here that "more whole" does not equate to owners not suffering losses from those events, only that our losses could have been greater if MVW in the aftermath of those disasters hadn't relaxed some rules/gov doc language in favor of owners.

Mr. Miller has extensive experience in both the financial aspect of the company as well as worldwide customer service operations for Marriott Vacation Club, The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club and Grand Residences by Marriott, prior to his latest position on the BOD of overseeing, "... all customer facing functions globally, including sales and marketing, customer services, resort operations, inventory management and rentals ... architecture and construction, which supports the needs of MVW’s vacation ownership properties and resorts around the world."

Mr. Yonker has been on the MVW Board since its inception and, "... is responsible for leading and executing global, enterprise-wide human resources strategies and programs that support associates, enable the company’s cultural foundation of Life, fulfilled, and drive its growth and operations strategies."

I've never had the impression that MVW is not focused on the customer/owner experience and in reviewing (again) the Execs' bios I still don't have that impression. These three Directors in particular have extensive experience with customer service, the financial acumen necessary to a successful timeshare company, and, creating a positive employee experience, all of which are instrumental to the customer/owner experience. But then again, circling back to what's been posted from several in this thread, I find it very easy to say no to presentations - I think we've gone to one or two over the last ten years? - and we've only encountered one particularly obnoxious "concierge" who wouldn't take no for an answer. Thus, since my experience has not been a constant focus on sales by resort personnel during our vacations, I don't share the opinion that MVW is too focused on sales. I'm not saying that others aren't entitled to that opinion based on their experiences, only that mine are not same. All of us here are basing our opinions on our personal experiences - and we haven't had one MVW vacation that wasn't enjoyable or even that was overall made negative by sales pushes, and the onsite staff we talk with appear to be very happy. But maybe you've actually spoken to the three execs I highlighted here and/or others who have told you that they specifically feel as though they, "... are not regarded as equals within MVC/MVW’s Executive Leadership team ..." in which case it'd be great if you would share the details?

I'll also say that for *years* prior to the inception of Abound (formerly the Destination Club) points system, my dream timeshare system was a combination of Disney's (DVC) point system and Marriott's extensive resort portfolio, i.e. using points for any resorts with varying points costs based on desired unit size and view, length of stay and the demand metrics of seasonal usage. Abound gives me everything I want in a timeshare and I'd be furious if MVW were to change direction and not focus on protecting equally the business and the customer experience. I'm an unapologetic happy Marriott camper and if/when they change things to make me unhappy, I'll get out whatever it takes. Fighting the behemoth that is MVW to remain exactly what I want would be too expensive and too time-consuming, in my opinion.

 

[b2bailey]

You make a very respectible point.

I believe the Executive Leaders metric, is not as your suggest, but the incidence that MVC owners purchase additional points (reload), while they are on vacation. It seems that this Executive Leadership Team is entirely fueled by the sale of points. Hell, they have gone so far as to impress upon their hourly employees (e.g. pool attendant) that a primary function of their job is not guest check-in, guest experience, food and beverage, etc, but, to sell more points. I know plenty of MCVI operations staff, who argue that “selling points” is not their job, and not what they signed up for.

Are you saying you have been solicited by hospitality staff regarding purchase of ownership? I can't imagine.

 

[b2bailey]

No surprise here — this only confirms what many of us have suspected for a long time: MVC/MVW is, at its core, a timeshare sales and marketing organization. Guest experience, resort operations, and HOA governance seem largely treated as afterthoughts.

Frankly, if leaders specializing in resort experience, guest satisfaction, and HOA governance — disciplines rooted in true hospitality — are not regarded as equals within MVC/MVW’s Executive Leadership team, then something is deeply wrong with that leadership structure.

I’ve suspected this for quite some time. But, it took a conversation with Pope Francis to truly see it clearly.

I'm confused by your mention of Pope Francis.

 

[rthib]

Marriott Vacation Club does not make money running resorts, it makes money selling Time Shares - The stock holders would expect leadership to reflect that
and it should be noted that Marriott Hotels does not make money running or owning Hotels. In face it owns very few. It makes money marketing hotels to hotel owners. And it reflects that.

Current Owners are not the customer for Vacation Club other than those it thinks it can sell to again.
And loyal Marriott Hotel guest are not Marriott's customers. The hotel owners are.
When you remember that everything they do is very logical.

 

[davidvel]

Marriott Vacation Club does not make money running resorts, it makes money selling Time Shares - The stock holders would expect leadership to reflect that
and it should be noted that Marriott Hotels does not make money running or owning Hotels. In face it owns very few. It makes money marketing hotels to hotel owners. And it reflects that.

Current Owners are not the customer for Vacation Club other than those it thinks it can sell to again.
And loyal Marriott Hotel guest are not Marriott's customers. The hotel owners are.
When you remember that everything they do is very logical.

Does MVC not manage the resorts? I can never keep all these Marriotts straight. Regardless, I personally see little to no material differentiation among the various entities.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I personally see little to no material differentiation among the various entities.

Agreed. All of the big hotel chains do this. I'm not sure why. Maybe a few different brands but Marriott has way more than that. It is like the old General Motors where the Pontiac, Buick, Olds, and Chevy weren't really that much different.

 

[jabberwocky]

Marriott Vacation Club does not make money running resorts, it makes money selling Time Shares - The stock holders would expect leadership to reflect that
and it should be noted that Marriott Hotels does not make money running or owning Hotels. In face it owns very few. It makes money marketing hotels to hotel owners. And it reflects that.

Current Owners are not the customer for Vacation Club other than those it thinks it can sell to again.
And loyal Marriott Hotel guest are not Marriott's customers. The hotel owners are.
When you remember that everything they do is very logical.

They may not “run” the resorts in the sense that they don’t own the resorts, but VAC (parent of MVC) does receive recurring management fees in addition to a few other streamsl of revenue (such as II exchange).

Most of the revenue for VAC comes from timeshare sales; however, the margin on those sales is much lower than the margins they obtain on the management side. Margins for selling the properties ran at about 23% last year, whereas, the margins on the fees for running the properties was around 43%. So in the end the amount of profit from the contract sales and the management fees from running the resorts is actually pretty close.

 

[vikingsholm]

My version of having a good experience is to have nice properties and rooms to use (check), well stocked rooms that have the items needed but which will be replaced or replenished fairly promptly if you call with problems (check, usually), a reasonable HOA fee (this one's got to be watched carefully lately), and not being bothered with too many amenities or activities at the premises, since we rarely use them (we can ignore those, but want them kept under control so we're not paying extra for things we don't use). The push for presentations can be annoying, but we typically brush it off and understand they're going to do it anyway.

In a nutshell: provide us with beautiful, enjoyable places and mostly leave us alone, keep the fees reasonable, and we won't find reasons to invoke 1st world problem complaints.

 

[DRH90277]

I don't follow the VAC stock much anymore and I don't own any now. My review of the VAC stock price over the past couple of years makes me glad I don't own any. Whatever management is doing doesn't seem to be bringing the stock back. I would be embarrassed as a member of management by the ratings and evaluations - not pretty for the stock.

We're not buying Abound points anymore as we have plenty of weeks, points, and access to points through enrollments. The sticking point for me is why get access to more points when getting good reservations for them is so difficult. I view the points as a distressed currency with limited options. The good news is that there seem to be plenty of owned week rentals available at reasonable prices.