Marriott Vacation Worldwide Executive Leadership - here lies the inherent flaw/strategic failure/conflict of interest in MVC’s Executive Leadership

[daviator]

It certainly does seem that the entire checkin experience is to get you to sign up for a presentation. While the front desk staff doesn't do that, they do usher you over to the "concierge". This isn't anything new and has been this way for decades. For sales it seems to be all about bodies through the sales floor.

We were already contacted to do a tour for an upcoming stay next month in Kauai. We will actually be at 11 different Marriott and Vistana properties. Some only for a night or two and others for a week. It will be interesting how many times they ask us to attend and even more interesting how many times they let us attend when I tell them we were just at one. I suspect it will be once per island per brand. So twice on Kauai, once on Oahu and twice on Maui. We shall see if this proves to be true.

This is a bit of an aside, but we just returned from two weeks at WDW, which was made up of two back to back stays. They started trying to get me to do an “owner update” a month before arrival, calling me repeatedly until I finally picked up and told them that I’d just been to one a few months ago and I was going to pass this time.

They tried again at check in and I turned it down. Then they called repeatedly very early the first morning, waking us up, and I unplugged the phones. Then they started calling on my cell phone. I again told them no.

On the second day, I stopped by the concierge to pick up the owner discount card. They tried again. I said, “You should be able to see that I already told you I did not want to attend a presentation.” Yes, they could see that, but thought perhaps I’d changed my mind. Right.

Then the first week ended and the second week began, and it all started all over again. The room phones were still unplugged so they called my cell phone repeatedly until I finally answered. How was our stay going? Did we need anything? And by the way, don’t you want to come for a sales presentation? Again I turned them down. I thought I was done, but they called again three days before departure, to let me know that they had some slots available, and had I changed my mind?

Then they called again the evening before check out. Check out time is 10 am tomorrow, but we could fit you in for an update at 8!

It’s really too much. It would almost take less of my time to attend the damned presentation (and get compensated for it) then to answer all the phone calls and nicely decline each of them. I think I was asked 11 times.

 

[Hindsite]

It’s really too much. It would almost take less of my time to attend the damned presentation (and get compensated for it) then to answer all the phone calls and nicely decline each of them. I think I was asked 11 times.

That is well worth a formal complaint to customer advocacy and for you to get a formal apology for the disruption, its not at all right.

 

[jwalk03]

That is well worth a formal complaint to customer advocacy and for you to get a formal apology for the disruption, its not at all right.

I agree with this! That many calls is beyond absurd. I have never experienced this. Once I have said yes or no that was the end of it.

 

[vacationtime1]

They may not “run” the resorts in the sense that they don’t own the resorts, but VAC (parent of MVC) does receive recurring management fees in addition to a few other streamsl of revenue (such as II exchange).

Most of the revenue for VAC comes from timeshare sales; however, the margin on those sales is much lower than the margins they obtain on the management side. Margins for selling the properties ran at about 23% last year, whereas, the margins on the fees for running the properties was around 43%. So in the end the amount of profit from the contract sales and the management fees from running the resorts is actually pretty close.

You are equating "margin" and "profit". I can believe that VAC's actual profit on sales is 23% of the sales price, but does VAC really bring 43% of our MF's to its bottom line? If so, that is absolutely outrageous.

 

[Hindsite]

does VAC really bring 43% of our MF's to its bottom line? If so, that is absolutely outrageous.

No MFs are not MVW revenue, they are HOA revenue.
MVW revenue is the management fee, unlikely to be high margin, and all the additional services such as Marketplace, bars and restaurants, which I can believe are high margin, give their pricing.

 

[dioxide45]

The management fee is almost a pure profit item. The HOA fees cover just about every other possible expense related to the resort operation. We pay for owner services, we pay for accounting, we pay for HR.

I'm also not sure that Marriott Vacations breaks out just management fees and management revenue in their quarterly earnings. They seem to always lump that number in as 'management and exchange".

 

[Superchief]

This is a bit of an aside, but we just returned from two weeks at WDW, which was made up of two back to back stays. They started trying to get me to do an “owner update” a month before arrival, calling me repeatedly until I finally picked up and told them that I’d just been to one a few months ago and I was going to pass this time.

They tried again at check in and I turned it down. Then they called repeatedly very early the first morning, waking us up, and I unplugged the phones. Then they started calling on my cell phone. I again told them no.

On the second day, I stopped by the concierge to pick up the owner discount card. They tried again. I said, “You should be able to see that I already told you I did not want to attend a presentation.” Yes, they could see that, but thought perhaps I’d changed my mind. Right.

Then the first week ended and the second week began, and it all started all over again. The room phones were still unplugged so they called my cell phone repeatedly until I finally answered. How was our stay going? Did we need anything? And by the way, don’t you want to come for a sales presentation? Again I turned them down. I thought I was done, but they called again three days before departure, to let me know that they had some slots available, and had I changed my mind?

Then they called again the evening before check out. Check out time is 10 am tomorrow, but we could fit you in for an update at 8!

It’s really too much. It would almost take less of my time to attend the damned presentation (and get compensated for it) then to answer all the phone calls and nicely decline each of them. I think I was asked 11 times.

I found the best way to stop the calls is to tell them your spouse isn't traveling with you. I learned this on a trip with my brothers without my wife. I still use it even when she travels with me. The key is to have the spouse not accompany you during check-in.

 

[dioxide45]

I find the best way to stop the calls is to say yes to the first offer. Or perhaps at least before I get out of the lobby. Better to just sign up for the update before arrival and I am never asked or called when I get to the resort.

 

[pedro47]

I found the best way to stop the calls is to tell them your spouse isn't traveling with you. I learned this on a trip with my brothers without my wife. I still use it even when she travels with me. The key is to have the spouse not accompany you during check-in.

Thanks for a outstanding suggestion.

 

[Dean]

I found the best way to stop the calls is to tell them your spouse isn't traveling with you. I learned this on a trip with my brothers without my wife. I still use it even when she travels with me. The key is to have the spouse not accompany you during check-in.

A couple of times (non MVC resort), I told them I was traveling with my mistress and asked them not to tell my wife, who is the same person. You should have seen the look.

 

[rcdcowner557]

I have been following this topic and the legal issues related thereto with interest. Here is an interesting read for anyone who shares that interest. https://apnews.com/article/florida-lawsuits-b3a00f2eae70d467bc229fc2fb634983

 

[rcdcowner557]

I'm a longtime owner of Marriott timeshares and have had fairly extensive conversations with many MVW execs/employees over the years, some of those relating only to my ownership and how it's impacted by the governing docs/legislation and some of those to try to dig deeper into issues raised on TUG. I wouldn't say they're forthcoming 100% of the time but then again, I wouldn't expect them to be. (IMO that's not a reasonable expectation of people who hold Exec board seats in any company, especially when some of the questions being asked are related to known ongoing legal issues.)

Your post suggests that you have had discussions "many MVW execs" as well as with individuals who "hold Exec board seats" at MVW. Can you explain to us how you made contact with these individuals? Are you saying that as a run-of-the-mill MVC member you were able to have extensive discussions with MVW execs and even members of the MVW Board?

Also, I would be curious to know what questions you asked these individuals about "ongoing legal issues" and what answers they gave you that you felt "led [you] in the proper direction to find, information that answered what [you] felt were reasonable questions."

As always, thank you for sharing.

 

[dioxide45]

I have been following this topic and the legal issues related thereto with interest. Here is an interesting read for anyone who shares that interest. https://apnews.com/article/florida-lawsuits-b3a00f2eae70d467bc229fc2fb634983

These things seem to happen a lot in The Villages too.

 

[vacationtime1]

No MFs are not MVW revenue, they are HOA revenue.
MVW revenue is the management fee, unlikely to be high margin, and all the additional services such as Marketplace, bars and restaurants, which I can believe are high margin, give their pricing.

Your point is well taken; that's what I get for posting at 3:17am.

But even if it is just the management fee, if VAC's margin on management is 43% as @jabberwocky tells us in post #23 above, the management fee (which I believe is 10% of MF's) is too high. And in addition to the Marketplace, bars, and restaurants, VAC makes money by using captive vendors (perhaps subsidiaries) to do work charged to the HOA.

 

[Hindsite]

But even if it is just the management fee, if VAC's margin on management is 43% as @jabberwocky tells us in post #23 above, the management fee (which I believe is 10% of MF's) is too high. And in addition to the Marketplace, bars, and restaurants, VAC makes money by using captive vendors (perhaps subsidiaries) to do work charged to the HOA.

The margin figure for the management fee would be 43% of the 10% management fee, which I think is a bit high from what I have seen, but could happen at specific resorts. Frankly given the amount of management time that seems to be consumed by owners moaning about things that aren't part of their ownership, I'm amazed the management fee is so low. I've not looked into how they charge the costs for that across the categories and I hate to ask......

Yes they could/do use MVW suppliers for some of the HOA charged work, but I don't know of those, so can't comment. I also don't know how it works for things like laundry costs and housekeeping labour, whether they are allowed to charge a margin on top of those or whether they are charged to the HOA at cost, I assume the latter, or there would be more noise about it.

 

[billymach4]

Does MVC not manage the resorts? I can never keep all these Marriotts straight. Regardless, I personally see little to no material differentiation among the various entities.

I totally agree. There is another TUG member who shall remain nameless that attempted to argue otherwise. However as much as I understand that legally and legitimately they are traded and treated as separate entities they all contain the flagship brand Marriott and freely share all sorts of information. To the regular Jane and John on the street nobody cares to understand the legalities of the independent entities. It gets blurred and confusing.
When I say Marriott you think of the Hotel Hospitality Brand.

Nobody but us timeshare nerds barely understand the difference.

 

[rcdcowner557]

I totally agree. There is another TUG member who shall remain nameless that attempted to argue otherwise. However as much as I understand that legally and legitimately they are traded and treated as separate entities they all contain the flagship brand Marriott and freely share all sorts of information. To the regular Jane and John on the street nobody cares to understand the legalities of the independent entities. It gets blurred and confusing.
When I say Marriott you think of the Hotel Hospitality Brand.

Nobody but us timeshare nerds barely understand the difference.

Time will tell whether they are "legally and legitimately" treated as separate entities; moreover, there are some lawyers who are rooting for them to be treated as separate entities because of the implications for RICO. This area of law is interesting and heating up again. I do believe MAR and VAC are legitimately separate legal entities, which makes those inclined towards RICO complaints happy; however, I am more inclined to focus on the various identities VAC puts out to the world as alter egos and leave MAR out of it.

 

[jabberwocky]

You are equating "margin" and "profit". I can believe that VAC's actual profit on sales is 23% of the sales price, but does VAC really bring 43% of our MF's to its bottom line? If so, that is absolutely outrageous.

Fair enough. How about “gross profit” instead of profit?

 

[jabberwocky]

The margin figure for the management fee would be 43% of the 10% management fee, which I think is a bit high from what I have seen, but could happen at specific resorts. Frankly given the amount of management time that seems to be consumed by owners moaning about things that aren't part of their ownership, I'm amazed the management fee is so low. I've not looked into how they charge the costs for that across the categories and I hate to ask......

Yes they could/do use MVW suppliers for some of the HOA charged work, but I don't know of those, so can't comment. I also don't know how it works for things like laundry costs and housekeeping labour, whether they are allowed to charge a margin on top of those or whether they are charged to the HOA at cost, I assume the latter, or there would be more noise about it.

While 43% margin may seem high (yes it would be on the 10%), it’s not unreasonable for this type of model where the resorts are effectively franchisees of the brand name.

McDonald’s is world class in this area and they run a profit for their franchise locations in around 82%. For company operated locations it’s around 16%.

They most likely will charge a margin on any supplies being made to the property (although at a lower rate) - paying a 40% markup on toilet paper wouldn’t go over well.

 

[Chucez]

As much as I love to hate on Marriott I am what I would guess is a loyal customer. I don't own any TS outside of the Marriott Brand. However they are after all in the business to earn a profit. So they must always have to $ell new Points/Timeshares.

Someone has to purchase from Marriott so we can enjoy the resale market.

funny