Marriott Vacation Club: Return on Investment in 19 years?

[csodjd]

I have four weeks ocean front or ocean view in Hawaii. Doubt I could get those two-bedroom "suites" for $250/nt. Or $500/nt. Probably closer to $700-$800/nt. In Hawaii, having a kitchen saves about $1000/wk or more compared with staying at a hotel, and that's still allowing for half our dinners out. These have to be factored into a purely economic break-even analysis.

But in the end, I don't and didn't view buying a timeshare interest as an investment or based on purely economic analysis. It's like buying a home based on economics without considering the intangibles, such as, will I enjoy LIVING here? It's great if you can make money on your house, but it's more important that you enjoy living there.

So too buying a timeshare. One should not buy a TS if they don't have disposable "play" money to spend on it, because it is more or less money lost. Just like one should not sit down at a craps table in Vegas with money they need to pay the bills! But, if you've got $25k that makes no real difference in your life, a TS may be a fun way to spend it.

 

[Hankmoon]

I like buying into "vacation clubs" or "residence clubs" because:
1) you can call and make a reservation to travel wherever you want to go without waiting for an exchange
2) As an owner/member, you get priority rooms and the best views - and you can negotiate addendums to make sure you get what you want for the term of your contract
3) if your home club gets destroyed in a disaster like a hurricane, you are not in trouble because you have many other clubs to choose from
4) depending on the club, you get many extra perks not available with a traditional timeshare or a resale timeshare - like free vacations, free airfare, free meals, free excursions, free years for the exchange memberships, discounted services (spas, masssages), etc.

Everyone raves about Marriott. I thoroughly investigated buying a Marriott on the resale market but decided against it for various reasons. We own two vacation clubs that we bought from the developer. They were expensive but we felt they were worth it. Our break even on them is not that far out because of all the perks the developers gave us and the maintenance fees are below Marriott maintenance fees yet the quality of the resorts are the equivalent or higher and we get more weeks included for the upfront amount paid. We can also purchase Marriott weeks and any property offered through SFX without trading weeks as a perk of buying directly from the developer for $699 for a 1 bedroom or $899 for a 2 bedroom. This is well below the maintenance fees. We get 2 weeks a year at these prices with one of our memberships.

In the end, however, the decision to buy a timeshare for us was not about the breakeven point. It was about buying into destinations that provide excellent quality and service with beautiful rooms that could accommodate our family. We were tired of hotel rooms and wanted to travel in 4 and 5 star vacation clubs in large condominium style rooms with everything done for us. The clubs we choose offer many activities and amenities in beach destinations with the ability to also travel worldwide without exchanging.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I like buying into "vacation clubs" or "residence clubs" because:
1) you can call and make a reservation to travel wherever you want to go without waiting for an exchange
2) As an owner/member, you get priority rooms and the best views - and you can negotiate addendums to make sure you get what you want for the term of your contract
3) if your home club gets destroyed in a disaster like a hurricane, you are not in trouble because you have many other clubs to choose from
4) depending on the club, you get many extra perks not available with a traditional timeshare or a resale timeshare - like free vacations, free airfare, free meals, free excursions, free years for the exchange memberships, discounted services (spas, masssages), etc.

Maximizing timeshares is like playing airline and hotel points games with credit cards bonuses. Many people should not sign up for credit cards, but if you pay off every month and manage wisely, you can come out ahead and/or enjoy nice intangibles. Good for some willing and interested in the game, bad for others who live paycheck to paycheck, or don't have the inclination nor ability to stay on top of it.

With that said, many people I know own a timeshare in major chains (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Vistana, Worldmark,) and are quite happy with using them year after year without all the exchanging and maximization.

 

[Hankmoon]

Maximizing timeshares is like playing airline and hotel points games with credit cards bonuses. Many people should not sign up for credit cards, but if you pay off every month and manage wisely, you can come out ahead and/or enjoy nice intangibles. Good for some willing and interested in the game, bad for others who live paycheck to paycheck, or don't have the inclination nor ability to stay on top of it.

Yes, I agree. I think timeshares are about using what you buy. Not about trying to "win." Just enjoy what you bought. Originally, I thought it was about maximizing and that was stressful. I will never exchange my weeks at my vacation clubs because I bought at places we love. If someone buys a low cost timeshare with low maintenance fees i.e. "trader" - that is another story, I guess. I like the TUG philosophy of buying where you want to go. I also like the philosophy of only buying with your play money.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Yes, I agree. I think timeshares are about using what you buy. Not about trying to "win." Just enjoy what you bought. Originally, I thought it was about maximizing and that was stressful. I will never exchange my weeks at my vacation clubs because I bought at places we love. If someone buys a low cost timeshare with low maintenance fees i.e. "trader" - that is another story, I guess. I like the TUG philosophy of buying where you want to go. I also like the philosophy of only buying with your play money.

I like a little bit of both. We have a more expensive property where we like to stay, and a "trader" for fun. I see the trader as "house money" so if I give it away when I sell, who cares because I paid nominal resale to purchase and will get 10 - 25 years of great vacation trades out of it for about $880 maintenance. With resales at a fraction of the developer price, you can build an interesting portfolio that fits your needs.

 

[rog2867]

I would never buy a timeshare in Florida, they go for free or a dollar online...

 

[Hankmoon]

So what happens to folks whose primary timeshare is at a property that was damaged or destroyed such as Westin St John or Marriott St Thomas or anything on St Maarten?

 

[lockewong]

I wouldn't say it's a scam, but I would say that you are the WRONG person for the product.

In my opinion, you'd do yourself a huge favor by not buying a Marriott timeshare, and by vacationing however you otherwise see fit. I think you're trying to apply a degree of logic to an illogical (current tense) product. For those of us who have owned Marriott timeshares for 25 or 30 years, we long ago got our money's worth out of the thing, had years of great vacations and vacation memories, own something that has little financial value, today, but some degree of qualitative value, and for us, personally, while I think that our maintenance fees are approaching insanity, we still have great vacations, thanks to Marriott timeshare ownership. And, I'll be the first to say that if it were not for our Marriott timeshare ownership, we would have never, otherwise, had some of the phenomenal vacations that we did, or have stayed in some of the phenomenal places that we did.

I think Marriott stands just about no chance of making you/keeping you (as) a happy customer.

I have been a member for a few years. This TUG Users group is phenomenal. As to Boom-Chaka's's confusion, I agree with WJS in that the Marriott product is wrong. We purchased MOC pre-construction prices. Our family has benefited every year by vigilant booking and strict adherence to our window to book. As a result, our children snorkel in Maui and watch the whales every year. The week we choose to travel is priceless and in no way could we find a room under $400 a night because Maui is sold out that week. I know this because one year in the beginning, I forgot to get a rental car. It is a family investment that we cherish and the memories we create have no monetary value, including the times we visited with grandparents who stay with friends. That is the intangible part of the timeshare.

 

[Hankmoon]

Wow - great post - thanks for the comments, I feel the same way!

Best,

Greg

I agree too. If you buy into a high quality timeshare or vacation club, the vacations are unforgettable and you will get your value back, whether in monetary terms and/or incredible memories.

 

[appell]

We purchased a two bedroom unit pre-construction at Grande Vista in Orlando for $13,000 in 1997(cash deal). We received 200,000 Marriott reward points that we used for a free flight to Australia and a one week stay at the Marriott on the Gold Coast. Since then we have swapped to every Marriott in Hawaii plus most others before they instituted the points system. I feel that I more then made my moneys worth over the years and now the maintenance fee is still a bargain for the great Marriott units. You have to be a total fool to buy anything at 19% interest.

 

[Hankmoon]

We have stayed at many great places. Most we would never have thought we could afford. We purchased a Worldmark after loosing a Marriott Mountainside to Marriott with right of first refusal. If you are considering a purchase I would recommend you do something similar. Worldmark has many great places to stay mostly in the west, but it trades amazingly with II.

We have used it to go to Yellowstone, SF Union Square X3, Sonoma X3, Anaheim, Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe X10, skiing and in summer one time for the 4th, a couple places in Arizona. Bonus time is amazing. We have also traded it with II. Trading we have stayed Marriott Ko olina, The Grand Lodge at Breckenridge, The Grand Lodge at Peak 7 at Breckenridge X3,

We just bought 2 Marriott Mountainside resale because we like skiing. I think they will keep their value and having a 2 bedroom on the slope in Park City for less than $200 a night is amazing!!!

Andy

That is an amazing price per night. We pay a minimum of $400 a night for a small hotel room at the base of Squaw Valley during non-holiday ski season not including taxes. It comes out to over $1000 for a 2-night weekend. We are tired of high priced hotel rooms so we are looking forward to being new timeshare owners and giving up hotel rooms unless absolutely necessary!

 

[frank808]

I would never buy a timeshare in Florida, they go for free or a dollar online...

I dont see them giving away dvc points in orlando or selling them for a $1 a point. Actually they are pretty expensive. I would take every marriott lakeshore unit (in Florida) that you have for free or even pay you $1.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[DeeCee]

We just bought Surfwatch/Gardenview/Gold Season, resale but direct through Marriott. We haven't used it yet. This was after we got home from a trip last Spring to Hilton Head and sat in on a presentation in which we heard the pitch for 2000 Destination Points. We already own a timeshare with DVC since 2000 so we really weren't interested in Destination Points or a $26,000 buy in cost. We just wanted to learn more about Marriott and we were very interested in owning on HH island.

Anyway, I did do a quick brief cost analysis as follows: (I didn't include increases to MF or rack rates of 2 bedroom villas, as I figure leaving off both sort of keeps it all even anyway)

Cost of purchase, + closing costs + 5 years annual maintenance fees = X divided by $2275 (estimated cost of a 2 bedroom villa in an ocean side resort during Easter break for 7 nights - perhaps $325 per night is low for a popular week - but it's what I used)
I come up with 5 3/4 years to break even, less if that $325 is too low of a figure to use.
After that, we look at it as 7 nights a year in a two bedroom villa for the cost of MFs. Which today comes out to about $185 a night.

Truth be told, I'm still uncertain about this purchase. Our first use of the resort will be Easter break next year. We love vacationing in Hilton Head and are hoping we love this resort enough to want to use it one week a year. If not, I'd have to add in the cost of a trade out to my analysis, because we'd use it to trade or let our adult kids use it every other year.

We already know if we sell it, it will most likely be a loss of a few thousand dollars, literally just a few, but after some years of usage to us it balances out because the most important factor to us is NOT having to pay thousands of dollars for the accommodations at checkout!

Timeshare ownership is NOT a financial investment for those of us who use it to vacation. I hope to never have to rent it, that would defeat the purpose of why we bought it, but we do like the option to do so.

ENJOY your timeshares and happy planning!

Dee

 

[quikitikit]

I was planning to retire in Jan. 2009. Wanting to continue going on vacations, I purchased Marriott Newport Coast on eBay in late 2008 use every other even year beginning 2010. Lots of timeshares were being sold due to the recession. After the purchase, I discovered Newport Coast 2 bedroom 2 bath was not a lock off. Yes, have to learn these terms! So I bought a Diamond Resort in Lake Tahoe 2 bedroom 2 bath, lockoff (our secretary and another friend owned here) every other odd year. Marriott changed from the week to the points system mid 2010. Diamond Resort also changed to the point system.

After buying my timeshares on EBay, I discovered Tuggs and there is so much wonderful information for those thinking of getting into timeshares. TUGGS confirmed about buying timeshares resale.

When our children were growing up, we had family vacations. But now with adult children and now 2 young grandchildren, the family time we have together with use of our Marriott villas whether at Newport Coast or in Hawaii, are immeasurable. We love the Marriott properties of which all are beautiful and vacationing there is so much fun with the various activities there.

And to think, I bought my first Marriott timeshare, sight unseen and relied only on the name. I also learned about the Marriott Rewards program when another friend introduced me to it (about 2013) and told me to apply for the Marriott credit card.

So each has to decide whether timeshare is for them or not. We have been extremely pleased with Marriott and their villas and properties. We have owned and used Diamond Resorts and their resorts are not like Marriotts. Because we pay II fees each year for Diamond Resorts, we also pay II fees each year for Marriott. This year I thought about giving up the Lake Tahoe timeshare because of every other odd year use and double II fees, but hubby decided we should keep it because we have been fortunate to have traded the one bedroom for Marriott (At Ko Olina, Palm Springs, and San Diego, California). It was this Ko Olina trip we traded the Lake Tahoe 1 bedroom for, that we decided to enroll in the Marriott Destination Club (points system) and enroll our week to be able to exchange for points.

Love, love, love Marriott and it's properties!!!! I've learned from TUGGS to take a Marriott vacation off peak in the odd year, which we did earlier this year, to save points and roll the rest to the even year to get villas with family during peak summer time. Still learning from TUGGS which has so much valuable info!! We will work on trying to make reservations within 60 days where points drop to 1/2!! Thus stretching our points more!!

 

[m61376]

There are many types of "investments" and, especially when looking at retail (developer's) prices, it is hard, if not impossible, to justify a purchase on financial terms. However, even on purely economic terms, it is easier to find a reasonable break-even point when considering resale prices, especially since the recession a decade ago.

While it seems questionable whether or not this truly fits the OP's needs or life-style, in general a potential purchaser really needs to consider the more intangible factors. Not to sound like a salesperson, but for many of us the "investment" is in enhancing our quality of life; ownership forces some to actually take vacations, ownership allows for more spacious and comfortable accommodations, ownership allows for inclusion of extended family (grandparents, siblings and, as life progresses, grown children and grandkids), etc. For us, having a kitchen avoids the dreaded hassle of the daily what to do for breakfast, and allows everyone to start the day at their own pace. It has enabled us to take multi-generation trips, invite friends to share vacations with us and, yes, it has forced us to routinely take vacations rather than being perhaps too practical in our expenditures.

And, sometimes, it is that extra vacation that makes all the difference. A decade ago, really because of the ability to purchase a Getaway, we decided to sneak in an extra celebration for my parent's 60th anniversary. We had a family trip planned a month and a half later, during my daughter's intersession, but my husband and I decided to take just my parents away to Cancun for the week. If I had to spend thousands on hotel rooms, in light of law school tuition and other everyday expenses we wouldn't have taken the extra trip. We had a truly memorable trip, celebrated their anniversary a week later, and two weeks afterwards unexpectedly lost my Dad. So that extra time spent with family can truly create priceless memories. So, for me, the biggest investment is in US, and that can't be quantified in dollars and cents.

 

[Hankmoon]

Adding to the above poster's comments, I see owning the "right" timeshare as a lifestyle investment. It is impossible to find a nicely maintained 2 bedroom condo with a kitchen and an ocean view. I do not like renting other people's condos on VRBO because you do not know what you are getting. We are new timeshare owners so maybe my opinion will change but so far, so good. In terms of cost effectiveness, I can't imagine we would not do better than hotel rooms since we only rent 4 and 5 star hotels, which are very expensive and do not have the space of a timeshare.

 

[deslagle]

Marriott has a nice product. If one sits down and figures out what it would cost to rent the same property for the same time one can save money.
There are two other options: 1 ) rent a Marriott timeshare week off TUG or Redweek.com or Timesharing Today and get a deal with no initial investment.
2) Search EBAY, Redweek.com, Timesharing today and/or TUG to buy a resale at a far cheaper price.
Sometimes the person is desperate to sell because of financial disaster or divorce and one can get the resale for a huge difference.
Just be patient.
NEVER PAY FULL PRICE DURING A TIMESHARE PRESENTATION..

 

[Hankmoon]

I think there are two types of timeshare buyers on TUG: 1) TS share buyers seeking to maximizing ROI and who purchase low cost traders and will be unhappy if they "lose" money and 2) TS buyers who are looking for a lifestyle and enjoy the ease and perks that come from joining a vacation club (like Grand Luxxe Residence Club buyers) or those who prefer to buy where they want to visit - such as those who purchase ocean view in Hawaii.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

Marriott has a nice product. If one sits down and figures out what it would cost to rent the same property for the same time one can save money.
There are two other options: 1 ) rent a Marriott timeshare week off TUG or Redweek.com or Timesharing Today and get a deal with no initial investment.
2) Search EBAY, Redweek.com, Timesharing today and/or TUG to buy a resale at a far cheaper price.
Sometimes the person is desperate to sell because of financial disaster or divorce and one can get the resale for a huge difference.
Just be patient.
NEVER PAY FULL PRICE DURING A TIMESHARE PRESENTATION..

I agree with this assessment.
Any analysis of timeshare payback time is flawed if rental timeshare or hotel rack rates are used. When we were Marriott owners I could not say this out loud. I say it now to anyone thinking about buying.

A very patient friend purchased Marriott timeshares on eBay for $500 and $1000 during the recession. He is planning to sell within the year and will make a few bucks. He wants to get out while the economy is good.
History tells us a recession occurs periodically, when that happens timeshare prices will drop like a rock. Just wait until destination club owners start defaulting on loans and yearly fees.

 

[Xpat]

Any analysis of timeshare payback time is flawed if rental timeshare or hotel rack rates are used. When we were Marriott owners I could not say this out loud. I say it now to anyone thinking about buying.

For me the true value is somewhere in the middle. I value the ability to book direct from MVCI and have direct access to the reservation platform. Before becoming a owner I would book MVCI resorts on Marriott.com often at 2 to 3x the equivalent cost of my weeks or points.

Just wait until destination club owners start defaulting on loans and yearly fees.

Slightly off topic but I'm wondering - what happens when DC owners default in greater numbers during the next recession? Does MVCI have to make up the maintenance fee revenue shortfall for the underlying resorts until they resell the "repossessed" points?

 

[Hankmoon]

Some of the destinations I am able to enjoy with my vacation clubs are not available for rent on TUG and Redweek and VRBO. For example, Pueblo Bonito Pacifica Adults Only (not the timeshare version) and Royal Hideaway Adults Only. I was able to book both of these for just the cost of the food - about $1200 to $1500 for the week for 2 adults. We are going to PBP for Christmas, and on Expedia, the ocean view suite is at least $6000 for the week. It is a AAA 4 Diamond resort. Royal Hideaway is a leading hotel of the world. We are going at the end of January and on Expedia it is a minimum of $5000+ for that week for the worst room. I am hoping we get something better than the worst room since we are a member of the vacation club that owns Royal Hideaway. So being a vacation club member can actually be beneficial financially if you stay at high end resorts that can't be rented any other way. I am also able to rent Marriotts and Westins for $699 for 1 bedrooms and $899 for 2 bedrooms without exchanging through my Vida weeks on SFX. I prefer to never exchange my Grand Luxxe weeks. For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.

Agree, timeshares offer greatest value if you enjoy high-end properties at iconic locations (e.g. Marriott, Westin, Hilton, Hyatt, Montage), want cleanliness, consistency and quality, and you prefer larger units 1 - 2 bedrooms and a kitchen.

Timeshares may not make sense when there are only two people that are fine with a studio. Or are less picky about accomodations and don't mind the hassle and risk of finding a rental during a popular vacation week every year. A hotel, rental, or Airbnb may offer better value with a lot less risk.

 

[Panina]

Agree, timeshares offer greatest value if you enjoy high-end properties at iconic locations (e.g. Marriott, Westin, Hilton, Hyatt, Montage), want cleanliness, consistency and quality, and you prefer larger units 1 - 2 bedrooms and a kitchen.

Timeshares may not make sense when there are only two people that are fine with a studio. Or are less picky about accomodations and don't mind the hassle and risk of finding a rental during a popular vacation week every year. A hotel, rental, or Airbnb may offer better value with a lot less risk.

My best timeshares are not high end name brands but they are still very nicely done, clean and great quality and are in the best locations, prime time. Renting at them during the times I own would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You are correct @Panina. There are probably several segments of highest owner value.

 

[frank808]

I am also able to rent Marriotts and Westins for $699 for 1 bedrooms and $899 for 2 bedrooms without exchanging through my Vida weeks on SFX. I prefer to never exchange my Grand Luxxe weeks. For me renting or exchanging weeks to stay elsewhere is too much work. I much prefer to call the vacation club and make a reservation. I calculate breakeven based on how much I save between what I pay to stay somewhere vs what retail costs since I stay places that are hard to rent any other way and/or I can get the Marriotts and Westins in Hawaii and elsewhere well below the cost of maintenance fees and rental prices on TUG and elsewhere.

What time frames can you get a 2br at westin kaanapali or north for $899 a week? What about time frames for atlantis at Harborside? How far out can you get a unit? Can you call and see what is available for next july at westin kaanapali? Just want to get an idea of availability and dates to book if you can just call and make reservations so easily at westins.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk