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Marriott to Spin Off Timeshare Business [merged]

dioxide45

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I think that the licensing fee is already being paid as part of the resort management fee. If the 10% fee paid does not include the Marriott name and other valuables, then why pay them instead of one of the companies that would do it for less than 10%

However the management fee is paid to MVCI, it will continue to be paid to MVCI in the future. Someone has to pay Marriott for MVCIs use of that name.

Will that just come out of the 10% that we currently pay? Possibly, though possibly not, but it has to come from somewhere.
 

wof45

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They have taken measures to protect Marriott International not Marriott Timeshares. Marriott Timeshares will be a very weak company. It will not be investment grade and the wall street journal has said that. That is very very bad for any company and especialy in this economy. So, yes things have changed significantly from yesterday for the worse.

I don't believe that is true.

Investment grade has no meaning unless the company is issuing bonds. And they indicated that they will not be issuing bonds to build or buy new resorts until they have sold their current stock.

weak or strong is not meaningful. The stock will have a value, and at some point when more cash is needed, they can issue stock or sell bonds depending on which is better for financing new development. It will probably depend more on the state of the economy in two years than anything else.
 

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They have taken measures to protect Marriott International not Marriott Timeshares. Marriott Timeshares will be a very weak company. It will not be investment grade and the wall street journal has said that. That is very very bad for any company and especialy in this economy. So, yes things have changed significantly from yesterday for the worse.

I agree 100%! A very disappointing day for us MVCI owners.
 

Michigan Czar

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I don't believe that is true.

Investment grade has no meaning unless the company is issuing bonds. And they indicated that they will not be issuing bonds to build or buy new resorts until they have sold their current stock.

weak or strong is not meaningful. The stock will have a value, and at some point when more cash is needed, they can issue stock or sell bonds depending on which is better for financing new development. It will probably depend more on the state of the economy in two years than anything else.

I hope you are right but I see this spin-off as bad news in the long run.
 

SueDonJ

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They have taken measures to protect Marriott International not Marriott Timeshares. Marriott Timeshares will be a very weak company. It will not be investment grade and the wall street journal has said that. That is very very bad for any company and especialy in this economy. So, yes things have changed significantly from yesterday for the worse.

Marriott timeshares were financially weak yesterday, they're still weak today. They're going to continue to be weak until the economy improves enough that people are willing once again, and have the discretionary income, to assume the financial risks inherent in any timeshare purchase. If Marriott determined yesterday that they wanted out of the timeshare business then they could have announced a sale. This spin-off isn't necessary if they want out. IMO, it also isn't a guarantee that they will be getting out. It could happen, sure, but I think they'll give the DC some time to put their ideas for the future of timeshares in motion. And in the meantime, Marriott Int'l. shareholders will be protected from further timeshare losses. You might say this buys Marriott some time to prove that there really is a future for timeshares.
 

dioxide45

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Flat out, this announcement indicates that Marriott IS getting out of the TS business. Marriott will no longer be a part of the new company. The Marriott name will be licensed to the new company, that is all.

The Marriott family will continue to own some of the stock and a Marriott family member will sit on it's board. But in the end Marriott is out of the TS business. Only their name is on the shingle.
 

dioxide45

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Flat out, this announcement indicates that Marriott IS getting out of the TS business. Marriott will no longer be a part of the new company. The Marriott name will be licensed to the new company, that is all.

The Marriott family will continue to own some of the stock and a Marriott family member will sit on it's board. But in the end Marriott is out of the TS business. Only their name is on the shingle.

I should mention, this doesn't mean things will change. Only what the reality is. We all have to sit and wait to see how this will affect owners, if at all.
 

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weak or strong is not meaningful???

Tell that to Bond rating agencies. The cost to borrow, and they will need to borrrow if only on a short term commercial paper basis, will be high and who will pay for that high rate debt, we will in higher fees. Marriott Internationals' fee will be in addition to the fee for spinco managing the properties. Remember, Spinco has to make a profit too. There is another hand in the pocket of the timeshare company.I worked for the rating agencies so I know what I am talking about.
 

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In the end, it doesn't matter if any of us will buy the stock. Everything has a value, so the real test is the value the market places on the total package, since most of the stock will end up in mutual funds. You may own the stock and not even know it.

My point was if we wouldn't own the stock (knowingly, not via our 401k's, etc)....why should Marriott? We don't like the fact they have spun off the TS business....yet if most of us wouldn't buy the stock why shouldn't they drop it via a spin off? The Marriott shareholders make this decision, not us TS owners; as much as we don't like it.

But I stress again, maybe little will change and as long as I can have nice vacations at a reasonable cost (yet to be determined in the long run) then do we really care who the shareholders are?
 

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The internet has dealt the final death blow to timeshare developer sales. Retail timeshare sales will never be a booming viable business again because anyone with internet access can google timeshares and see that they are only worth pennies on the dollar. The cheap resale market is here to stay.

In addition financial institutions do not want to finance an item that is worthless if they have to foreclose on it. It is a losing proposition. Without financing the sales will almost totally cease. Marriott in the past could finance and take the foreclosures to resell for retail prices making money on the same weeks multiple times. Times have changed. Now Marriott is stuck with more inventory than they want. Not even Marriott wants to finance Marriott retail timeshares. heck Marriott doesn't een want to ROFR weeks that sell for a few hundred dollars.

Marriott sees the writing on the wall. Dump the timeshares and the diminishing returns associated with timeshares so that they can concentrate on their profitable hotel business. Being the unwanted stepchild of the marriott corporation can not be good for owners in the long run.
 
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disnefile

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The internet has dealt the final death blow to timeshare developer sales. Retail timeshare sales will never be a booming viable business again because anyone with internet access can google timeshares and see that they are only worth pennies on the dollar.

In addition financial institutions do not want to finance an item that is worthless if they have to foreclose on it. It is a losing proposition. Without financing the sales will almost totally cease. Marriott in the past could finance and take the foreclosures to resell for retail prices making money on the same weeks multiple times. Times have changed. Now Marriott is stuck with more inventory than they want. Not even Marriott wants to finance Marriott retail timeshares. heck Marriott doesn't een want to ROFR weeks that sell for a few hundred dollars.

Marriott sees the writing on the wall. Dump the timeshares and the diminishing returns associated with timeshares so that they can concentrate on their profitable hotel business. Being the unwanted stepchild of the marriott corporation can not be good for owners in the long run.

Great analysis. You are completely right. Others need to open their eyes and see the writing on the wall for the whole timeshare industry. Marriott has brought back seedy to timeshares.
 

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GregT

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The internet has dealt the final death blow to timeshare developer sales. Retail timeshare sales will never be a booming viable business again because anyone with internet access can google timeshares and see that they are only worth pennies on the dollar. The cheap resale market is here to stay.

In addition financial institutions do not want to finance an item that is worthless if they have to foreclose on it. It is a losing proposition. Without financing the sales will almost totally cease. Marriott in the past could finance and take the foreclosures to resell for retail prices making money on the same weeks multiple times. Times have changed. Now Marriott is stuck with more inventory than they want. Not even Marriott wants to finance Marriott retail timeshares. heck Marriott doesn't een want to ROFR weeks that sell for a few hundred dollars.

Marriott sees the writing on the wall. Dump the timeshares and the diminishing returns associated with timeshares so that they can concentrate on their profitable hotel business. Being the unwanted stepchild of the marriott corporation can not be good for owners in the long run.

Tombo,

Welcome back! It's nice to see you again on the Marriott board -- lots more excitement now!

All,

I think we can all agree that a business model that depends upon the development and sale of new timeshare interests is getting killed by the internet -- and may be dead.

However, I think we are being hasty in announcing the demise of SpinCo, or what I am calling the new Marriott timeshare business (because it is being spun out of Marriott, and will exist as an entirely different company).

Seriously, who wouldn't want to be the CEO of a brand new company, with two of the most respected brand names in the hospitality industry? And that brand new company comes with $1.5B worth of inventory for sale/deployment in some of the most desirable places on the planet?

And there are some recurring revenues? And an (abused) ownership base of 400,000 owners that can be courted? And shareholder expectators are very loowwww....

What an opportunity ---- Plus, there are a plethora of other properties/companies that can be consolidated to make an even more formidable company -- forget developer sales and find new ways to leverage the portfolio.

So, in time....we will learn which path they pursue:

They can be a consolidator and build an entirely new company -- a truly high quality leisure company that treats its ownership base like partners and creates a model for the leisure community.

Or, they can follow the path of Wyndham and bilk their captive owners for everything they can, and use contracts to tighten the noose.

Personally, I'm glad to rid of corporate Marrriott -- the timeshare business had outlived its usefulness and it was clear that our value to them was in the past, when we purchased the week. Hopefully, a new model can be developed that has a brighter future for all of us.

Best to all,

Greg
 
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tombo

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Tombo,

Your link didn't provide the full article unless the reader is a Wall Street Journal Subscriber.

Here's a link to the entire article: Marriott to Spin Off Timeshare Unit
- by Alexandra Berzon and Kris Hudson/Wall Street Journal Online

I apologize - my link didn't work either.

Richard


For some reason if you google the article and pull it up you can read the whole article. If you copy and paste the address you don't get the whole article. Here is the whole WSJ article:


"Marriott to Spin Off Timeshare Unit .Article Stock Quotes Comments (2) more in Business ».EmailPrintSave This ↓ More.
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close Yahoo! BuzzMySpacedel.icio.usRedditFacebookLinkedInFarkViadeoOrkut Text By ALEXANDRA BERZON And KRIS HUDSON
Marriott International Inc. is spinning off its timeshare business, a one-time booming profit generator for hotel companies that petered out during the recession.

The move will create what amounts to the world's largest standalone timeshare business, with around $1.5 billion in unsold assets and 400,000 owners, according to Marriott's chief operating officer, Arne Sorenson. The unit owns 71 properties with 33,000 rooms.


Arne Sorenson
.Under the plan announced Monday, Marriott's existing shareholders will own the new company, receiving shares when it is spun out, which is expected to happen by the end of this year. The new company, which has yet to be named, will control the management and planning of the timeshare properties, as well as unsold and under-construction properties.

Marriott's timeshare business in 2010 had $1.2 billion in revenue, around 10.4% of the company's total revenue.

The announcement came as Marriott reported a profit of $173 million in the fourth quarter, or 46 cents a share, up 63% from $106 million, or 28 cents a share, in the same quarter a year earlier. Overall revenue rose 8% to $3.6 billion.

Marriott's revenue per available room, a key industry metric, increased 7.6% in constant dollars. The company said it expects revenue per available room to increase between 6% and 8% in 2011.

The gains come as the hotel industry broadly has shown a faster-than-expected recovery following a deep plunge during the downturn. The upswing has primarily been caused by more business travel.

The timeshare business, however, which relies more on consumer than business travelers, has continued to lag as sales have dwindled and buyers have difficulty qualifying under stricter financing standards.

In the fourth quarter of 2010, Marriott's timeshare sales fell to $201 million, a $2 million decline from the previous year. The unit's revenue has dropped around 30% since 2007.

Mr. Sorenson said Marriott shareholders have lost their appetite for the timeshare business. "We've never really been interested in walking away from this business," Mr. Sorenson said in an interview Monday. "But the last few years have been extraordinarily difficult. This recession was harder on the timeshare business than last recessions."

Analysts say the Marriott spinoff won't immediately put pressure on two of the other major timeshare players, Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. and Wyndham Worldwide Inc., to follow suit. However, they may consider such a move if Marriott's spinoff fares well with investors.

Timeshare sales account for roughly half of Wyndham's overall sales, so Wyndham is less likely to split its business in that manner than the other two. In comparison, nearly 11% of Starwood's sales come from timeshares. "Once you have this [spinoff] on a standalone basis, the world will tell us what a timeshare company is worth," said Robert LaFleur, managing director at Hudson Securities. "We don't have a pure timeshare company of this scale" already on the market to set a value.

Under Marriott's plan, the new timeshare company will be a Marriott franchisee by licensing the Marriott names for the timeshare properties. At the helm will be Steve Weisz, the current head of Marriott's timeshare unit. Its board will include both Debbie Marriott Harrison, the daughter of Marriott chief executive Bill Marriott, and William Shaw, a former Marriott president.

The company will be able to make deals with other hotel companies, Mr. Sorenson said.

The decision, which was made by Marriott's board on Friday, will carve out a three-decade-old business that began in 1982 when Marriott bought a timeshare property in Hilton Head, South Carolina, and started building timeshare resorts across the country.

For years, the concept, which involved individuals buying permanent rights to stay for a portion of time at a resort, provided dividends. Other hotel companies poured into the business.

Hotel companies continued to invest in the timeshare business even as they divested of most other capital assets. Marriott, for example, in 1992 spun off its real-estate division to create what is now called Host Hotels & Resorts.

Mr. Sorenson said the company tried to partner with outside investors to build timeshare resorts but found that the model of providing management for third-party owners, which is the basis for the hotel business, didn't work well with timeshares.

Several other hotel and timeshare companies, however, including Hilton Worldwide, are still seeking private investors for new timeshare properties.

As the business declined in recent years, Marriott restructured it using a point system that could be redeemed at any property rather than requiring owners to buy rights at a specific property. Mr. Sorenson said he doesn't expect the planned change in ownership to affect timeshare owners."
 
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tombo

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Tombo,
Welcome back! It's nice to see you again on the Marriott board -- lots more excitement now!
Greg

I almost sold my Marriott after the points rollout. I had a buyer but backed out deciding to hang on and see if the points rollout would hurt my exchange opportunites as a weeks owner. I am still disappointed that Marriott changed from a weeks based program to a points based program, upset with the rules and point exchange values, and upset with the way Marriott handled the rollout, but I kept my week hoping few would convert and the exchange opportunites for weeks owners would remain good.

Now I am even more discouraged about the future for owners of Marriott weeks. When timeshare companies change their business model from sales and development to instead focus on management of the resorts, the only way for them to increase profit is on the backs of current owners. Nickel and dime everything to increase profits. Raise their mgt fees. Renovate, assess, renovate some more, assess some more. Plenty of other companies have used this business plan to make a profit on sold out resorts.

Since Marriott is not building anymore resorts the only way to make the stock increase and get bonuses for the CEO's is to show increasing profitability on their mgt of the resorts. Get ready. Timesharing is about to get more expensive for Marriott owners.
 
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I sold my four Marriott Weeks 5 - 10 years ago when I got upset with some of the things they were doing; i.e. changing the Rental and Resale Programs, etc. All in all I think I about broke even.

At the right time the stock of the new entity could be a nice speculation. I can see the new company turning itself into a rental machine, renting the Weeks they can't sell; buying Weeks on the cheap in the resale market and renting them out; adding non-Marriott Weeks to their rental inventory, etc. Somewhat like what RCI is doing.

I'm going to keep my eyes open on this one.

George
 

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I sold my four Marriott Weeks 5 - 10 years ago when I got upset with some of the things they were doing; i.e. changing the Rental and Resale Programs, etc. All in all I think I about broke even.

At the right time the stock of the new entity could be a nice speculation. I can see the new company turning itself into a rental machine, renting the Weeks they can't sell; buying Weeks on the cheap in the resale market and renting them out; adding non-Marriott Weeks to their rental inventory, etc. Somewhat like what RCI is doing.

I'm going to keep my eyes open on this one.

George

Week owners who went to points just put more money on the table. Now Marriott wants to spin off a new co. I do not know how this will work out?.Looks like Marriott is looking to break out of the timeshare business. It will be easy to sell off then.
 

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weak or strong is not meaningful???

Tell that to Bond rating agencies. The cost to borrow, and they will need to borrrow if only on a short term commercial paper basis, will be high and who will pay for that high rate debt, we will in higher fees. Marriott Internationals' fee will be in addition to the fee for spinco managing the properties. Remember, Spinco has to make a profit too. There is another hand in the pocket of the timeshare company.I worked for the rating agencies so I know what I am talking about.

none of that matters if the company does not need to borrow. you assume they will need to borrow, but they do have a steady cash flow. They also have a lot of inventory that is already financed.

If anyone reading the Wall Street article is used to reading these, they can see many mistakes in what is written and in the analysis. Time will tell how well the company does, but MVC only manages many timeshare resorts and does not own them. For the foreseeable future, they also do not need to build more.

From the release, in the fourth quarter, Marriott posted revenues of 98% of what it sold in Q4 last year, so the points model is doing as well in its first 6 months as the old model did. And this is in an environment in which home sales are also at lows, so there is every reason to believe the TS market sales will rise with the housing market if not faster since MVC sells to a higher income segment.

A possible outcome mentioned as the new company looks at new business is taking over management of other high-end time shares under the Marriott name, much as the Marriott parent manages hotels that used to carry other brands. It could become very interesting in the next few years.
 

hvsteve1

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Marriott's business plan has, for years, involved franchises and management fees. The hotels are probably built with real estate investment trusts (REIT) and franchised out. Don't you notice that Marriott hotels, as do others, list the franchisees on a plaque near the entrance? Staying at MVCI properties often involves dealing with varying rules concerning use of on site Marriott hotels depending on how generous the franchisee wants to be to timeshare visitors. Spinning off the timeshare business would seem to bring them in line with the hotel system.
 

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Change happens.

Whatever comes of this, one can only hope that the "quality" of the "Marriott" resort system does not diminish.

That being said, if we (owners) are required to pay even more money and if we are not getting the quality product that we purchased or expected, then I would anticipate a lot more defaulted maintence fees....which again, hurts the rest of us and the overall TS industry (if there's one left).

Time will tell, obviously.

ileneg
 

tombo

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none of that matters if the company does not need to borrow. you assume they will need to borrow,

From the release, in the fourth quarter, Marriott posted revenues of 98% of what it sold in Q4 last year, so the points model is doing as well in its first 6 months as the old model did. And this is in an environment in which home sales are also at lows, so there is every reason to believe the TS market sales will rise with the housing market if not faster since MVC sells to a higher income segment.
.
Want to know why they dumped timeshares? Sales of timeshares and profits from timeshares are plummetting while Hotel income is rising. The "old model" of selling timeshare weeks had quit working, so they swapped to a new model (points). That has not stopped the slide. When the new excitement of points wear off (most anything new will have a spike in sales) the slide will probably deepen. Here is a quote from the WSJ article:

"Marriott's revenue per available room, a key industry metric, increased 7.6% in constant dollars. The company said it expects revenue per available room to increase between 6% and 8% in 2011."

"In the fourth quarter of 2010, Marriott's timeshare sales fell to $201 million, a $2 million decline from the previous year. The unit's revenue has dropped around 30% since 2007."

Revenus of 98% of Q4 is showing that sales are still falling from the dismal prior 3 years.

Marriott needs financing because selling points using their own money has a cost that they will not want to incur. It is hard to sell stock in a company who has falling revenues for several consecutive years and is loaded in debt.

Very few retail buyers can afford pay cash for $40,000 to $50,000 worth of points. If you think Marriott weeks are almost worthless, try to resell your Marriott points through a licensed reseller (the only way Marriott will allow the sale) if they ever authorize one. Marriott must borrow money (which they will not want to do) or find someone willing to finance points buyers. I doubt Marriott will find a financial institution willing to finance Marriott points because every foreclosure amounts to a virtual total loss since the product is worthless resale. No financing, no sales.

The future for this division is bleak with regards to sales growing profits. Stock value will never increase unless the company can show profit and growth. That leaves mgt of the resorts as the company's cash cow. A 10% increase in Mgt fees with no increase in employees or services translates into about a 10% increase in profit. Assess and renovate and Marriott makes money. They after all must be paid for the additional work they do supervising and planning for the renovations. Get ready, increases are coming. You are a captive income flow for the new Marriott timeshare division and there is nothing you can do about it but sell or pay the ever increasing costs Marriott will charge you to be an owner. But heck if you buy some stock in the new company when you pay your perpetually escalating MF's you can at least feel like you are contributing to your own stock portfolio.
 
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I wonder about the DC program now. it originally was an attempt to increase the profit margin, but now do they see it is a failed attempt so they decided instead of swimming up stream to just spin it off? obviously all speculation, but interesting stuff indeed. I'm sure some of you wished they just spun it off to begin with instead of "fixing something that ain't broke" --> i.e. creating DC

obviously DC is here to stay for the time being, that is not what I was implying in case anyone misunderstood my post.
 

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Somehow Wyndham seams to to have no problem geting someone to back 50k-100k loans for (near) worthless points all the time. I bet they would even be willing to send some of their sale force over to help the new marriott timeshare co sell some inventory and them WAAM it to make it special presidental reserve properties. ...or diamond or raintree or festiva. :hysterical:
 
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