Marriott: Time to Buy...or Time to Bail?

[Steve]

But the bottom line, having the option to stay in hotels is a lot more flexible than just staying at timeshares.

You've missed my point. With the difference between what Marriott charges for a timeshare week and what you can buy a Marriott week for on the resale market, you can stay in a LOT of hotels. You have the ultimate flexibility when you travel outside of your timeshare because you have all that cash savings from the timeshare purchase price to stay in any hotel, anywhere, anytime...with no worries about points or having to stay in a Marriott.

Spending $30,000 for a timeshare eats up a lot of capital. I can see why you'd want to find a way to use points for your hotel stays. If you buy the same timeshare for $6000, then you have a heck of a lot more capital left to spend on any hotels of your choice.

Steve

 

[Steve]

Everyone has a different perspective but inho the time to buy (developer purchase or resale) is when you have the money to spend and want to have the timeshare experience for a number of years at places you want to vacation. Market conditions are secondary.

This is a valid point. I'm always concious to try and only buy timeshares at a price where I feel confident that I could resell them for the same price or more later. However, if one has the money and wants to purchase something as a lifestyle choice, then the market conditions may not be the most important issue.

Of course, things change and my timeshare preferences aren't the same today as they were nine years ago when I bought my first timeshare at Sanibel Beach Club II in Florida (or my first Marriott at Harbour Point in 2000). Lots to think about.

Steve

 

[pwrshift]

When using MR points, staying at a top-rated hotel with a rack rate of 400 UK pounds and checking out without having to pay taxes does seem like it's free. But it's not. Marriott sells the points for $0.0125 each and that is the basis on which I calculate how good a deal I'm getting. If I can stay in a Cat7 hotel (present list) for 150,000 MR points, the cost of those points is $1875 for the week. A false deal if you're paying $268 a night - because even then, you are just breaking even so I'd pay the cash and earn points.

But if the hotel is $500+ a night, like a lot of the European ones, there's no contest IMO. Even here, there's prime time pricing...The JW Desert Ridge is $599 a night in March/April 09 -- but your chances under the former 'standard' points chart are almost nil - hopefully the new system will work better during prime time, albeit for more points.

If you throw in what the Cat7 week certificate you get with a Cat7 package of 120k FF miles it's even better value. But still not free. But what a way to go! On a long flight in Biz class, take a walk through economy and you'll be stunned...it's like another world.

In the old days, I bought MSE and MCV for less than $18,000 in 2001-2 and got over a million points for my $36,000. That valued out about $40,000 worth of hotel/business air trips (rack rates) to Europe so it feels more like the timeshares were free, but then I paid $36,000 for the trips.

Confusing for sure, but it's really how you look at it. I wouldn't want to pay $5000 a seat for biz class to Rome either, and might suffer in economy (maybe buy two seats instead) -- but the MR points afforded biz class for me, many times. Same with the hotels -- would I really pay cash to stay in a $500 a night hotel? Maybe not, but I have had great holidays on points in ways I once thought unaffordable, and still have more timeshare weeks than I can use so I still trade in two weeks a year for points to use on trips, devaluation or not...as a way of replenishing what we use.

Just booked my daughter on a biz class flight to Madrid for a special birthday ... used 80,000 FF miles ... rack price from Air Canada would have been $3898 and she's in a cabin that has bed/entertainment units and seat only 3 people across. Nice.

Brian

btw ... travel is down so much these days that I've not had any problems booking air or hotels on points anywhere...just do it soon to escape the new points requirement. Enjoy.

 

[BocaBum99]

I mean, seriously, when you take a step back, there is no reasonable economic justification for a single timeshare week being worth $10,000, let alone $40,000. None. Zero. It's completely illogical. That reality was covered up by some very good economic times in the U.S., but there's no covering it up right now.

You are completely and utterly wrong on this point. First and foremost, a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it of their own free will. There are plenty of timeshare intervals that people are willing to pay $10000 or more for in today's bad market. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the basic prinicples of the free market.

As far as economic justification, if you are purchasing a timeshare that is dramatically below its underlying real estate value, then, it could be a very good buy. Also, if the total cost of ownership (cost of capital plus annual fees) is below the expected rental value, then that's a great economic justification for a purchase.

Moreover, if you are a wholesaler and purchase timeshares below their market value and sell them at the market value, that is a very good reason to buy. And, there are people doing it today.

If anything, since prices are even more depressed today, there are more reasons to buy than every before. Please dump your timeshares for $1 on eBay. More deals for smart shoppers.

 

[ondeadlin]

Well, Boca, based on your linked sites, I've always believed you're associated with timeshare sales. Am I correct in this? If so, I hope you'll understand if I view your perspective as somewhat influenced by that fact.

 

[billymach4]

Yes Buy !

Marriott is a name brand that is not going away!

They have always kept prices artificially high via ROFR.

Hands down this is the buying opportunity of the century.

BUY! BUY! BUY!

I did !!! I hope you all will as well.

 

[Latravel]

"You've missed my point. With the difference between what Marriott charges for a timeshare week and what you can buy a Marriott week for on the resale market, you can stay in a LOT of hotels. "

Steve-
You would be correct except you left out one main point. When you buy from the developer, you receive a lot of incentive points. In my case, these points "bought" me a vacation worth the difference of price between what I paid developer and resale (sometimes I feel like a broken record). After the initial price difference is made up from that vacation, all the other years of trading in my unit for hotel stays (if I want) is just a really nice option to have that gives us a lot of flexibility in case I want to go to Europe one year. At that point, this option has not cost me anything extra (since I made up the price difference already). It's much nicer than having to be stuck in my timeshare world. Actually, it's one of the main reasons my husband and I chose a timeshare associated with a hotel brand. We bought from the developer on purpose and it's been everything we expected and more.

 

[davidvel]

"You've missed my point. With the difference between what Marriott charges for a timeshare week and what you can buy a Marriott week for on the resale market, you can stay in a LOT of hotels. "

Steve-
You would be correct except you left out one main point. When you buy from the developer, you receive a lot of incentive points. In my case, these points "bought" me a vacation worth the difference of price between what I paid developer and resale (sometimes I feel like a broken record).

Heidi-

In order to evaluate your statement we need to know how much you paid for what resort and how many TRUE incentive points you received. (Not including points for years that you could not occupy and paid MF, etc.)

It is doubtful that this is more than the difference between developer and resale. But to know we need to know what the incentive points received and retail cost paid was, and compare to the resale price

After the initial price difference is made up from that vacation, all the other years of trading in my unit for hotel stays (if I want) is just a really nice option to have that gives us a lot of flexibility in case I want to go to Europe one year. At that point, this option has not cost me anything extra (since I made up the price difference already). It's much nicer than having to be stuck in my timeshare world. Actually, it's one of the main reasons my husband and I chose a timeshare associated with a hotel brand. We bought from the developer on purpose and it's been everything we expected and more.

Most people contend that the "option" you refer to (paying your annual MF + points fee in exchange for x points) is no more a deal than what ANYone can buy the same points for directly from Marriott.

 

[Latravel]

In a previous post somewhere I listed the details. I don't want to restate everything again. I do remember stating the difference was around $16K and there was a lot of discussion on how a trip for 2 for 2 weeks in a cat 7 hotel plus 2 business class airfare (which is what I could get with my incentive points) could cost $16k . People then argued that business class airfare is not really very expensive which resulted in others searching on travel sites for the exact cost.

Bottom line, the trip was worth the price difference so some stated that a person really wouldn't take such an expensive trip. Some do and some don't.

It's true that ANYone can purchase 50k points per year or 100k per couple from Marriott but that doesn't buy you anything. Trading in your timeshare plus adding some points you can purchase from Marriott could get you a non-timeshare vacation per year. If you don't have the ability to trade for points, you have to wait up to 3 years to buy and save enough points for a vacation in addition to paying your MF, which doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

[ondeadlin]

$6,900 for EOY 2BR Ko-Olina lockoff yesterday on eBay. They were selling the same week for $22,000+ this summer when we visited Hawaii.

And the bottom isn't here yet:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260319355095

 

[davidvel]

I don't want to restate everything again.

I agree.

I think that many people have decided that the incentive points at purchase either are or are not worth the difference between developer pricing and resale.

And, the "perk" of having the option to "buy" about 100K of points in exchange for your week and about $1000 in MF and other fees, either IS or IS NOT a "perk."

 

[ricki999]

...a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it of their own free will. There are plenty of timeshare intervals that people are willing to pay $10000 or more for in today's bad market. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the basic prinicples of the free market.

I'm not an economist, but isn't "Price" what the free market sets, and "Worth" linked to the "value" someone derives from the product?