Marriott: Time to Buy...or Time to Bail?

[Steve]

I recently sold my last Marriott week. It was a Manor Club week that I had purchased on the resale market. I sold it through Marriott which netted me a nice profit. I had planned to purchase another Manor Club week, resale, with part of the proceeds.

After thinking things over, however, I have decided not to. I love Manor Club, but it is extremely easy to exchange into through II. (Most of the other Marriotts that I like best are also easy trades.) Purchase prices are incredibly low, but maintenance fees are getting pretty high.

So, I'm going to wait and see what happens with Marriott, the coming points system rollout, and the timeshare market in general before deciding if I want to buy another Marriott. It seems weird to not be a Marriott owner after having owned a number of Marriott weeks over the past eight years, but I think it was the right decision.

How do others feel? Are the super low prices encouraging you to jump in and buy one (or more) Marriott weeks? Or are you bailing out and selling? Holding steady? Purchasing non-Marriott timeshares (which are currently incredibly cheap)?

Steve

 

[littlestar]

Wow, Steve, I can't believe you don't own a Marriott anymore.

I've watched the bargains for Marriott on Ebay but I haven't been tempted to buy because I'm wondering what they are going to do with this points system - possibly tanking the value of certain resorts and seasons which probably means gold and platinum owners will pay more ultimately in maintenance fees. I wasn't impressed with what I was reading on the survey.

We did pick up another VRI managed EOY 2 bedroom lock-off summer week at a resort we already owned at. I saw a bargain on e-bay and decided to grab it. So now we just own an EOY Marriott, and two EOY's at Fairways.

We had downsized our Disney points to a bare minimum and I actually thought about selling all of the DVC and just staying at Marriott in Orlando most of the time, but decided not to after a terrific DVC trip in October - Disney gave us 17 free passes to the Not so Scary Halloween Party (we couldn't believe they did that). After that terrific experience with Disney, I decided to definitely keep our DVC points and I'm actually probably going to add on at the Contemporary.

 

[pcgirl54]

I love Marriott resorts but I am pondering the same thing after owning for 8 plus years. My MF with SA are $942 I can rent for that since I travel in shoulder seasons. They used to be mid $600.

My other week I would not sell. It is a Cape Cod prime summer week & pulls coastal resorts,Marriott,Disney and Hawaii.

 

[Cathyb]

Steve: How did you sell your Manor for a nice profit if Marriott isn't practicing ROFR these days?

 

[GrayFal]

Steve: How did you sell your Manor for a nice profit if Marriott isn't practicing ROFR these days?

answer below.....

I recently sold my last Marriott week. It was a Manor Club week that I had purchased on the resale market. I sold it through Marriott which netted me a nice profit. I had planned to purchase another Manor Club week, resale, with part of the proceeds.

Steve

He gave it to Marriott to sell - they sold it at their FULL retail price and Steve got 60% ??? of the sale - which was more then he purchased it for on the resale market.

 

[thinze3]

Steve: How did you sell your Manor for a nice profit if Marriott isn't practicing ROFR these days?

Marriott may not be currently taking inventory through ROFR, but will surley sell your week off the waiting list if a buyer comes along. Of course Marriott makes more money by obtaining weeks through ROFR, but cash is king these days.


Terry

 

[sernow]

I love staying at Marriott resorts and have nearly pulled the trigger a few times in the last few years. I didn't because of:

- Truth shading and outright fabrications during in my first, only, and last sales preview I will ever go on. This turned me off from buying directly. I originally had a lot of respect for Marriott and only considered a developer sale, but no more.

- Huge increases in MF's and fall on the floor Special Assessments (I first became aware of this with the Hawaiian properties).

- Uncertainty about Marriott's rumored internal trading system and how they would treat resale owners.

- Recent talk of points system and how this would impact various resorts, seasons, and resale owners.

What will probably keep me from ever buying from Marriott is the uncertainty regarding resales. I don't want a property that has it's resale value destroyed because of new policies that are unfriendly to resale buyers. Regardless of whether they grandfather in current resale owners, making new resale purchasers second class citizens will ruin your week's resale value.

 

[tango]

Reminds me of that ad, where the old mechanic announces it's time to hang it up and sell the shop, and in the next scene, the shop purchase is the dream of the new retiree.
Those experienced with timeshares surely have a different perspective from newbies. We see the incredible values for vacations that only a few years ago seemed out of reach.
It boils down to your tolerance for the gamble. Playing the waiting game, may reward with either higher or lower values, the truth is, I don't think, any one knows.

 

[timeos2]

Why buy the cow - the milk is so sweet

I love Marriott resorts but I am pondering the same thing after owning for 8 plus years. My MF with SA are $942 I can rent for that since I travel in shoulder seasons. They used to be mid $600.

My other week I would not sell. It is a Cape Cod prime summer week & pulls coastal resorts,Marriott,Disney and Hawaii.

We love the Marriott resorts and were tempted twice to buy in but have, like you, discovered we can get any we want practically on demand with a good summer trader or DRI/II points. And the annual fees for those are half or less of what a single Marriott would cost before the hassles and cost of II trades to travel to the ones we wouldn't own. With the history of Marriott walking away from resorts, high handed tactics with owners to keep the management and high fees it makes zero sense to commit to an ownership in the system. Sure glad others pay the freight though as we do enjoy the beautiful resorts Marriott has kept in their system.

 

[thinze3]

... - Huge increases in MF's and fall on the floor Special Assessments (I first became aware of this with the Hawaiian properties)...

Trust me, ALL timeshares are having this problem. Things are very expensive in Hawaii and MF's do and should reflect that. Properties such as Christie Lodge have also exploded in MF's in the last few years, but for a different reason. Yes there is the typical, higher utilities, higher wages, higher taxes, that we have seen at all timeshares. But there is a much bigger problem looming. At Christie Lodge, like most ski resorts, virtually every week but a ski season week is worthless.

Consequently, many owners have let their units go into default - simply refusing to pay the MF's. This is a spiraling problem throughout the timeshare industry. The good news is that CL will run its course in about 10 years and will most likely be sold for land value - with the TS owners getting the proceeds.

If you want to keep this from happening, buy a resort that has high year round demand, a well run HOA, and buy at a huge discount. In the mean time hope for lower fuel/energy costs and lower taxes. IMHO

Terry

 

[MLC]

I believe people are going to start renting instead of having the responsibility of paying MF. I would not buy into the timeshare industry at this point of the game. Timeshares has changed so much over the years people have to look what is the cheapest way to vacation. Having double digit increases in MF over the last 2 years with Marriott I would be very cautious in buying. Marriott historically never had more than a 5% increase over all the years they were in business but then all of a sudden MF sky rocketed. Marriott get at least 10% of our MF as a management fee, so Marriott can give them self a raise by raising the MF(conflict of interest).


I know Marriott will find away to bring back value in their timeshares, if they do not then we all will have a problem with the weeks we own.

 

[bogey21]

IMO probably too late to bail, too early to buy.

George

 

[mpizza]

I'm in the market for another Marriott week at my home resort and am hoping to get a great deal while the resale market is distressed. The MFs are still less than a rental during the week we occupy.

Maria

 

[ocdb8r]

The problem with timeshares in general is that the maint. fee increases have tended to outpace inflation over the last several years. While at the time of initial buy-in they may have been a great "value" for the vacation you get, over time the relative value decreases. At the same time the resort you own at is getting older and decreasing in desirability. Further, because you are a captive audience (you own and are responsible for the fees) there is little motivation to keep fees down - competition is gone.

In addition the explosion of TS developments has created a glut of excess inventory that must be disposed of in some way. Enter the cheap "getaway" opportunities.

All of these issues combined make it very difficult to squeeze sufficient economic value out of a timeshare these days. Now, there are many other benefits of ownership: you can be less flexible, you are "forced" to vacation every year, peace of mind knowing exactly when and where you'll end up...etc. Those that don't place a high value on these things can do much better playing the trading/getaway game.

I personally like the way the Royals do it in Mexico. 50 (or 30) years and then punt the land. High demand resorts. Maint. fees well managed (I don't know HOW they do this). Nice but basic accommodations. Sadly I don't yet own there but if I can scope a nice deal on the Haciendas or Sands, that's the only place I'd consider.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I think until certain circumstances you can find a deal so good that its hard to pass up. If I see a Marriott week that I know is well under market value, I would be investigating it. I saw a 2BDRM Maui Marriott OV annual sell for $17K a few weeks back on ebay. Had I seen that sooner I would have been all over that. I seriously doubt Marriott would let that go by, but maybe in this market who knows. Even in this market, I could have sat on that until the market was better and get $10k above what I paid easily.

There's been other fire sales as well on ebay, and sure to be more, so I think it may be wise to keep your eyes open for that fire sale type situation.

Regards
Joe

 

[rickandcindy23]

We had downsized our Disney points to a bare minimum and I actually thought about selling all of the DVC and just staying at Marriott in Orlando most of the time, but decided not to after a terrific DVC trip in October - Disney gave us 17 free passes to the Not so Scary Halloween Party (we couldn't believe they did that). After that terrific experience with Disney, I decided to definitely keep our DVC points and I'm actually probably going to add on at the Contemporary.

Disney gave you free passes to the Halloween party? Wow! Why did they do it? Was it because you are a Disney owner, or was it a special occasion or something?

I was thinking of going to the Christmas party during our trip next week. Wish I could get free passes. We have annual passes, so Rick probably won't want to go to the Christmas party and pay a bunch extra.

 

[littlestar]

Disney gave you free passes to the Halloween party? Wow! Why did they do it? Was it because you are a Disney owner, or was it a special occasion or something?

Cindy, I think we came in contact with someone from the "Dream" squad. My niece was attempting to get reimbursed for some rain out passes for the Halloween party from the previous year and she got to chatting with this Disney CM and they ended up giving us passes for our whole group! 17 of us. And they actually told her if she had more family show up, to call a number they gave her and they would have issued more passes. It had to be part of the Year of a Million Dreams or else she came in contact with somebody very high up at Disney -

My niece lost her dad (41 years old) back in January and Disney doing that for our family really meant a lot - we made some happy memories. It was an amazing night and I decided that I wanted to keep our DVC membership and probably add on more points.

 

[rickandcindy23]

That's pretty cool, littlestar! I think that is the only way we would ever go to the Halloween party. Now the Christmas party is quite different for me, because I really want to go, but Rick thinks it's way too expensive, even with our discounts through our annual passes.

To stay on subject, I would like to buy something in Marriott that would get me 2 bedrooms on the Hawaiian islands in the priority period. But I already have my Starwood week, so it would be a very hard decision to go forward with it.

 

[BocaBum99]

I think it is a fantastic time to buy Marriotts. I have my own strategy for it. Suffice it to say that in any market, there is a way to play it to make money. Think about it and you will figure out my strategy. If Marriott suspends ROFR, what happens on the buy side? What happens later when Marriott starts it up again? How likely and when will that happen? Enough said. All I can say is that there is HUGE opportunity in buying Marriotts right now. It's NEVER been better.

 

[tombo]

I think it is a fantastic time to buy Marriotts. I have my own strategy for it. Suffice it to say that in any market, there is a way to play it to make money. Think about it and you will figure out my strategy. If Marriott suspends ROFR, what happens on the buy side? What happens later when Marriott starts it up again? How likely and when will that happen? Enough said. All I can say is that there is HUGE opportunity in buying Marriotts right now. It's NEVER been better.

I feel sure that you are 100% correct. The million dollar question is when the bottom is so you can buy at the best prices (I don't feel that we have reached the bottom yet), and the other variable is how long before things turn around, sales pick up, and prices increase. We know it will happen, we just don't know when. If you can afford to ride it out for what could be several years while paying multiple MF's, there is money to be made.

 

[Vacation Dude]

I think it is a fantastic time to buy Marriotts. I have my own strategy for it. Suffice it to say that in any market, there is a way to play it to make money. Think about it and you will figure out my strategy. If Marriott suspends ROFR, what happens on the buy side? What happens later when Marriott starts it up again? How likely and when will that happen? Enough said. All I can say is that there is HUGE opportunity in buying Marriotts right now. It's NEVER been better.

Just like most stocks and even rental real estate...it appears to be a buying opportunity IF YOU HAVE CASH.

That is the problem, most people did not conserve cash to avoid the present real estate, stock, gold, bond, and timeshare market meltdown of 2008.

If you had cash, CDs, or put it in a mattress, then you must be smiling now.

 

[jlayne9]

Opinions

Hey guys and gals-
I am new to the timeshare website and considering buying a timeshare. My wife and I truly enjoying skiing and go each year. We have been looking at purchasing at a ski resort such as Park City Mountainside and have seen a seller willing to let one go for about 25K. Since I am new to this, all of the research I have done tells me this is a decent deal but I am not sure. Any ideas on what the going prices should be in the current state of things for a Park City Marriot Mountainside 2BR 2 BA lockoff unit? Any help would be appreciated as I definitley do not want to make a huge mistake in this purchase.

 

[Vacation Dude]

The million dollar question is when the bottom is so you can buy at the best prices (I don't feel that we have reached the bottom yet), and the other variable is how long before things turn around, sales pick up, and prices increase.

It is almost impossible to buy at the bottom and sell at the top, but the prices are so low now, the odds are that we are closer to the bottom than the top.

Besides, Marriott has ROFR and some people will refuse to buy them even thought they are presently not exercising that right.

 

[Vacation Dude]

Hey guys and gals-
I am new to the timeshare website and considering buying a timeshare. My wife and I truly enjoying skiing and go each year. We have been looking at purchasing at a ski resort such as Park City Mountainside and have seen a seller willing to let one go for about 25K. Since I am new to this, all of the research I have done tells me this is a decent deal but I am not sure. Any ideas on what the going prices should be in the current state of things for a Park City Marriot Mountainside 2BR 2 BA lockoff unit? Any help would be appreciated as I definitley do not want to make a huge mistake in this purchase.

That is an awesome price if it is a true ski week. In fact, they used to sell for $30k last year on the resale. I have heard some really great MS/SW buys lately (under 20k???), but have to question if it is true or not.

 

[sernow]

That is an awesome price if it is a true ski week. In fact, they used to sell for $30k last year on the resale. I have heard some really great MS/SW buys lately (under 20k???), but have to question if it is true or not.

It is true (or at least one screaming deal was because it was so great I verified it with the broker), you just have to be in the right place at the right time and willing to act immediately.