Marriott points and internal exchange program - the latest info

[PerryM]

And now what....

Buying resale today at ridiculously low prices and taking advantage of any potential grandfathering is probably the best case scenario, because I can only assume that there is no way in he$$ that Marriott will exclude current resale owners from joining the points based system due to legal issues.

Suppose you buy a DSV or a BeachPlace unit for about $7,000 dollars today and get grandfathered in. Marriott gives you the option to convert for points for the same $ amount they offer developer-purchased owners. Let's guestimate a $3K-$5K conversion fee.

Total expense with full points trading privilages = $12K for resale vs $30K-$35K developer.

Suppose you do not get grandfathered in and Marriott wants double, as much as $10K (this will never happen), to join the points system . Total cost is $17K for resale vs $30K-$35K for current developer owners.

Obviously Marriott has the right to ban future resale owners from being included in the new points system.

Just thought I would stir it up a bit.

Assume this is all true - grandfathering will be allowed for ALL Marriott owners as of the day of the official announcement.

Whoopee!

We now get to spend big bucks to enroll in the caste system. Just how is this going to make our ownership better?

Think the 8 AM mad dash to call/click a hotly desired reservation is going away?

Think you stand a better chance getting an exchange that you've tried in II for 3 years now is going to become a reality?

Someone tell me what great benefit we owners will get - besides the huge conversion fee?

You know that when you sell your week on eBay Marriott's internal exchange system won't go with it. That new owner will be forced to join - if they can.

How is any of this malarkey going to do you, personally, any good?

We will simply change masters - from II to Marriott and pay dearly for it. II didn't make us pay a small fortune to belong.

And for what? The rumors never tell us what's in it for us - only what evils await us if we buy resale.

 

[RandR]

Another way to make direct buyers happier without being punitive against old resales is to give the old direct buyers bonus points when they join the system.

A points system is not necessarily a bad thing. I thought about buying into Hilton but ultimately didn't because they didn't have the breadth of product that Marriott had and they were more expensive on the resale side. The problem here is that everyone is used to the system that is currently in place. I am sure the collective wisdom here will find ways to game the new system to their advantage.

As many have stated, a new system is coming. We can't stop it. Some will benefit, some will not. Just hope you are one of the ones that benefit.

 

[SueDonJ]

Heidi, be careful that you don't fall off your high horse. As a very recent resale buyer, I am happy with my purchase. I used a TUG suggestion of buying where I want to go so I know for the next 5 - 10 years minimum I will still be happy with my purchase whatever happens with a points program. (Although if they do put ina 6-month window for resale buyers I would not be.)

To be all pompous and holier-than-thou about having bought direct and that we who bought resale are just getting what we deserve is obnoxious. If future resale purchasers lose all rights (forget about current ones), the prices of resales will drop substantially. This will effect ANYONE trying to sell whether they bought direct or not. Not everyone who bought direct will have the perfect life that you are leading and will lead forever. Some people will get divorced, lose jobs, have medical problems or just need the money and they will get almost nothing for their sale. Obviously a ts is not an investment but I am sure that most have the expectation that they will be able to get something back when they sell.

What exactly is "all pompous and holier-than-thou" about acknowledging that MVCI assumes no risk for the profit/loss resale value of any week, regardless of the way it was purchased? No developer purchaser has said here that s/he won't be directly affected by any drop in value that this proposed exchange system might cause on the resale market. But rather, we've all questioned why resale sellers think that possibility is something with which MVCI should concern itself now, especially because we've been beneficiaries of MVCI not considering it previously.

Maybe that's the difference - developer purchasers are used to a market whereby a financial loss is guaranteed should we sell at a future date.

How would you feel if when they assigned the points, your units were given less points than many of the others? What if your week could only get you 5 days in some of the properties? Would that make you mad? It could happen. Maybe not to you but to other direct buyers. This would be within Marriott's rights.

Again, it's been acknowledged by pretty much everyone that the opportunity exists within this proposed exchange system for certain weeks to have more or less exchange point value than others. No developer purchaser has said that their expected point value should be more by virtue of the way they purchased, but rather that they don't see a legal impediment to MVCI assigning developer-purchased weeks a higher value.

Is this an angry post? YES!! Whenever there was an "argument" on buying direct vs resale, many resale buyers tried to make the direct buyers feel stupid for paying so much. I thought that sucked. Now some of the direct buyers are heaping it on the resale buyers and I think that sucks as well.

Heaping? Really? I see more resale than developer purchasers participating in this discussion, so my perception is that the resale folks are the ones making more comments. But regardless, your anger and defensiveness is understood - it's natural to feel that way when threatened. (And I mean that in the truest sense of the definition, not as an adversarial remark. This proposed exchange system is a new threat to every owner.)

We are all in this together. I pay the same maintenance as a direct buyer. I care about my property the same as a direct buyer. I shouldn't be treated as a second class citizen and neither should anyone.

"Second class citizen" is a perceived insult that has not been voiced by anyone here.

 

[KathyPet]

All of these logical arguments for not penalizing existing resale owners make perfect sense except for one thing Marriott is only out for one thing and that is the $$$. You ask why Marriott would want to alienate its current owners whether resale or direct? Well, they certainly alienated lots and lots of current direct owners who WERE good candidates for the purchase of another unit direct from Marriott when they changed the reward point system to make your points less valuable. I have read statistics about how many owners end up buying another week from Marriott and the #'s were pretty high if I recall. they certainly pissed all those people off when they changed the point system. I most certainly would never buy direct from Marriott again and we were actually considering buying another week at the time they made the changes. So if they don't care about possible loss of sales from their current direct purchasers why do you think they would care about angry resale purchasers?

 

[pwrshift]

Any truth to the rumour that Marriott is reading all these rumours to get new ideas on how to adapt their rumoured points program?

Brian

 

[PerryM]

Double dipping...

Another way to make direct buyers happier without being punitive against old resales is to give the old direct buyers bonus points when they join the system.

A points system is not necessarily a bad thing. I thought about buying into Hilton but ultimately didn't because they didn't have the breadth of product that Marriott had and they were more expensive on the resale side. The problem here is that everyone is used to the system that is currently in place. I am sure the collective wisdom here will find ways to game the new system to their advantage.

As many have stated, a new system is coming. We can't stop it. Some will benefit, some will not. Just hope you are one of the ones that benefit.

On the day of the announcement the Marriott resale timeshare market will immediately drop the price of the conversion - by the end of that day.

If Marriott charges $1k to enroll then ALL resale Marriotts will instantly drop by $1k at least. That difference won't go away - ever. That new owner may then have to pay a penalty fee to qualify for the system that will be even larger than the membership fee.

So as an existing Marriott owner I will have to cough up $1k and when I sell my Marriott I will lose another $1k - I got screwed by Marriott twice at least.

How is there ANY upside to this for ANY Marriott owner?

And what again do I gain for my loss of money?

 

[indyhorizons]

Any truth to the rumour that Marriott is reading all these rumours to get new ideas on how to adapt their rumoured points program?

Brian

I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[PerryM]

Any truth to the rumour that Marriott is reading all these rumours to get new ideas on how to adapt their rumoured points program?

Brian

That would mean that Marriott has never heard of focus groups.

I get paid to participate in many focus groups during the year - they are constantly looking for folks who like to shoot off their mouths and get paid for it.

Marriott; I will volunteer to be on your focus group if you want.

 

[indyhorizons]

That would mean that Marriott has never heard of focus groups.

I get paid to participate in many focus groups during the year - they are constantly looking for folks who like to shoot off their mouths and get paid for it.

Marriott; I will volunteer to be on your focus group if you want.

Yes, but this is FREE!! And in this economy...:hysterical:

 

[SueDonJ]

... So what rumor will Marriott spread today? And why do we tolerate their deceptive behavior? Imagine Disney doing this - I can't.

Read the disboards - you'll get an earful of DVC rumors and speculation and inconsistencies that are foisted on potential customers during sales presentations. Sure, those presentations enjoy the distinction of being the least-pressure ones out there in the world of timeshares, but they are far from perfect. As that system ages there are more and more complaints about the salespeople, which leads me to believe that DVC is slowly joining the real world of deceptive timeshare sales practices.

Also, DVC recently instituted a change whereby the points were reallocated across the calendar, resulting in some folks requiring more points (in some cases, than they've purchased) for the same week/unit vacation they've enjoyed up to this point. Speculation was that Disney was responding to the historical traits of DVC'ers utilizing more weekday points than weekend in order to use less points, so they applied a more even point distribution to increase weekday points to take advantage of members' vacation habits. Don't kid yourself - DVC is in it for the money, too.

No, none of this makes any company's questionable/deceptive sales practices more correct, but it does speak to your argument about MVCI being less "ethical" than others.

 

[PerryM]

Medical emergency....

Read the disboards - you'll get an earful of DVC rumors and speculation and inconsistencies that are foisted on potential customers during sales presentations. Sure, those presentations enjoy the distinction of being the least-pressure ones out there in the world of timeshares, but they are far from perfect. As that system ages there are more and more complaints about the salespeople, which leads me to believe that DVC is slowly joining the real world of deceptive timeshare sales practices.

Also, DVC recently instituted a change whereby the points were reallocated across the calendar, resulting in some folks requiring more points (in some cases, than they've purchased) for the same week/unit vacation they've enjoyed up to this point. Speculation was that Disney was responding to the historical traits of DVC'ers utilizing more weekday points than weekend in order to use less points, so they applied a more even point distribution to increase weekday points to take advantage of members' vacation habits. Don't kid yourself - DVC is in it for the money, too.

No, none of this makes any company's questionable/deceptive sales practices more correct, but it does speak to your argument about MVCI being less "ethical" than others.

Ok, then ALL timeshare developers are pond scum.

How does this benefit the Marriott owners who are about to get hosed?

Let's think about this for a second:

• Marriott introduces their wonderful internal exchange system and grandfathers ALL owners on the day of release.
  
• Marriott want's a fee of $3,500 for each week to join the new system.
  
• Marriott informs us that their system does NOT transfer to new owners if the sale is not made thru Marriott
  
• The new resale owner must pay a fee of 25% of the current sales price to qualify for entry into the new system. Assume the average Marriott Platinum week is $35k so that fee is $8,750.

You must sell your Platinum week (Medical emergency and you need the cash) and Marriott informs you that there is a 2 year wait - you list your week on RedWeek.

Resale Platinum weeks used to sell for 50% on Redweek or $17,500. You list it for that and notice that fellow owners reduce their asking price by $3,500 or you must change your listing to $14,000.

A potential buyer calls you and wants to buy your week! They want to join the new internal exchange system and want you to split that $8,750 fee ($4,375) and want you to lower your asking price to $9,625.

You need the money fast and agree to sell your week at $9,625.

Marriott exercises the ROFR and snaps up the week for $9,625 and sells it next week for $35,000.

Now; what again do we owners get out of this new Marriott Internal Exchange System?

 

[SueDonJ]

Any truth to the rumour that Marriott is reading all these rumours to get new ideas on how to adapt their rumoured points program?

Brian

When did you get all British?

 

[pwrshift]

From the beginning it made sense to me to buy where I wanted to use, so bought direct the resorts I wanted to use more than trade. In some cases I traded a lockoff to upgrade to a 1 or 2 bdrm suite, but usually by trading back into resorts where I own...and made great use of AC's to try out other Marriotts.

Two of my 6 platinum weeks are traded in for MR points every year to replenish what I use, and I quite enjoy my 4 (split) weeks in a row at Beachplace every Feb-Mar and 2 weeks at Manor Club. Trading through II gives me the 'upgrades' in size that I want. Manor Club Sequel and Canyon villas were bought to use/rent EOY and trade for points in the between years. Don't know what a points system would do to my use of the MR points benefit.

It's hard to get a feel for how a points system could improve my main purposes for the purchases I made, but right now the rumoured 'points' doesn't interest me at all. Maybe I am just resisting change, but admit to feeling more 'comfortable' owning weeks (like real estate) rather than a bunch of points. Time will tell.

Brian

 

[RandR]

What exactly is "all pompous and holier-than-thou" about acknowledging that MVCI assumes no risk for the profit/loss resale value of any week, regardless of the way it was purchased? No developer purchaser has said here that s/he won't be directly affected by any drop in value that this proposed exchange system might cause on the resale market. But rather, we've all questioned why resale sellers think that possibility is something with which MVCI should concern itself now, especially because we've been beneficiaries of MVCI not considering it previously.

Maybe that's the difference - developer purchasers are used to a market whereby a financial loss is guaranteed should we sell at a future date.

As I have read other postings by Heidi in this thread, I just got the feeling that she was kind of saying that resale owners are now getting their comeupance. If I am wrong, then I was out of line.



Again, it's been acknowledged by pretty much everyone that the opportunity exists within this proposed exchange system for certain weeks to have more or less exchange point value than others. No developer purchaser has said that their expected point value should be more by virtue of the way they purchased, but rather that they don't see a legal impediment to MVCI assigning developer-purchased weeks a higher value.

I am not saying that the point values will be different based on how the unit was purchased. I am saying that different properties may be assigned different points. That would mean that someone in a property with less points could no longer trade like for like. The only thing that Marriott technically has to provide is what you bought, which is a week at your home resort. I am sure though that the salespeople have told, and still do tell, buyers that they can trade their unit for the like at another property.


Heaping? Really? I see more resale than developer purchasers participating in this discussion, so my perception is that the resale folks are the ones making more comments. But regardless, your anger and defensiveness is understood - it's natural to feel that way when threatened. (And I mean that in the truest sense of the definition, not as an adversarial remark. This proposed exchange system is a new threat to every owner.)

Heaping may have been too strong.


"Second class citizen" is a perceived insult that has not been voiced by anyone here.

That was not directed at Heidi or any other owner, just a term used on the board in general.

 

[pwrshift]

When did you get all British?

Bite your tongue Susan ... I'm Canadian, eh.

Brian

 

[AceValenta]

In Dave's OP it was mentioned that the system comes from a "reliable source" inside Marriott. But, who is this source? We know it is not an IT guy from Dave's later post.

Is it a salesperson wanting to line his pockets more?
Is it a Manager of a Sales Department wanting to add to his bottom line?
Is it a Marketing person trying to find ideas?
Is it just a ploy to scare people by Marriott to make people buy direct?
Is it from TUGBBS want to increase the hit traffic for Google analytics?
Is it a member of the MVCI that stayed somewhere and went to a presentation?

We don't know the system.
We don't know the facts.
We don't know anything except a generic comment that has resulted in a plethora of arguments over resale and developer purchaser rights.

Just like the argument over the 6 month window for resale purchasers. Which hasn't come to fruition.

Marriott has not released a statement to the truth or denial of the plan. Marriott isn't going to shoot itself in the foot to not be able to sell future units.

Rumors are assumptions with no factual basis. if Dave came out with details, then I would worry. Right now, it is all speculation. You know what happens when one assumes.....I don't need to spell it out.

 

[SueDonJ]

Ok, then ALL timeshare developers are pond scum.

How does this benefit the Marriott owners who are about to get hosed?

Let's think about this for a second:

• Marriott introduces their wonderful internal exchange system and grandfathers ALL owners on the day of release.
  
• Marriott want's a fee of $3,500 for each week to join the new system.
  
• Marriott informs us that their system does NOT transfer to new owners if the sale is not made thru Marriott
  
• The new resale owner must pay a fee of 25% of the current sales price to qualify for entry into the new system. Assume the average Marriott Platinum week is $35k so that fee is $8,750.

You must sell your Platinum week (Medical emergency and you need the cash) and Marriott informs you that there is a 2 year wait - you list your week on RedWeek.

Resale Platinum weeks used to sell for 50% on Redweek or $17,500. You list it for that and notice that fellow owners reduce their asking price by $3,500 or you must change your listing to $14,000.

A potential buyer calls you and wants to buy your week! They want to join the new internal exchange system and want you to split that $8,750 fee ($4,375) and want you to lower your asking price to $9,625.

You need the money fast and agree to sell your week at $9,625.

Marriott exercises the ROFR and snaps up the week for $9,625 and sells it next week for $35,000.

Now; what again do we owners get out of this new Marriott Internal Exchange System?

Okay well first, at the risk of repeating myself for the eight hundred seventy-thirteenth time, every owner assumes the risk for a financial loss should s/he have to or want to sell his/her ownership at a future date. I don't know how many different times or ways this can be said, or why it's not sinking in, but MVCI has never assumed that risk. It boggles my mind that some folks think MVCI should begin now to concern itself with that risk. It's just a non-issue to me, and has been since the day I purchased.

As far as the benefits to this proposed internal exchange system? I agree with you that the possibility exists that we will all end up paying for something that is similar to the exchange system now in place (which offers an MVCI-preference as well as outside-MVCI exchange opportunities.) Way back when I asked in this thread if anyone knew the terms of the existing contract between II and MVCI, with the thought that possibly MVCI will be renegotiating or terminating its partnership with II and this proposed exchange system will be somehow related to a new contract, if any. None of us can know if that's the case.

What I think about the proposal is that if enough owners join into it, then it could provide more even exchanges across the board with the advantage decidedly in favor of those who own at the more-desired MVCI resorts and those who have purchased developer-direct. But again, there are not enough details for anyone to decide right this minute if joining in is a smart move. It's wait and see time, as others have said.

As others have also said, it's all about continued revenue for Marriott/MVCI. I agree. But it appears that this proposal is a choice each owner will have to make for him/herself, and Marriott/MVCI gains no revenue from those who choose to not participate. As with every commercial venture, we speak with our pocketbooks.

And finally, I'll say here what I've said in many of the developer v. resale discussions on TUG. If Marriott/MVCI implements any changes with respect to ownership that offer an advantage to developer purchasers, I will not complain about MVCI making those changes so long as they do not remove any deeded rights from any owner and/or so long as any legal challenge to them could be successfully defended by MVCI.

 

[BocaBum99]

Ok, then ALL timeshare developers are pond scum.

How does this benefit the Marriott owners who are about to get hosed?

Let's think about this for a second:

• Marriott introduces their wonderful internal exchange system and grandfathers ALL owners on the day of release.
  
• Marriott want's a fee of $3,500 for each week to join the new system.
  
• Marriott informs us that their system does NOT transfer to new owners if the sale is not made thru Marriott
  
• The new resale owner must pay a fee of 25% of the current sales price to qualify for entry into the new system. Assume the average Marriott Platinum week is $35k so that fee is $8,750.

You must sell your Platinum week (Medical emergency and you need the cash) and Marriott informs you that there is a 2 year wait - you list your week on RedWeek.

Resale Platinum weeks used to sell for 50% on Redweek or $17,500. You list it for that and notice that fellow owners reduce their asking price by $3,500 or you must change your listing to $14,000.

A potential buyer calls you and wants to buy your week! They want to join the new internal exchange system and want you to split that $8,750 fee ($4,375) and want you to lower your asking price to $9,625.

You need the money fast and agree to sell your week at $9,625.

Marriott exercises the ROFR and snaps up the week for $9,625 and sells it next week for $35,000.

Now; what again do we owners get out of this new Marriott Internal Exchange System?

I believe this is very close to the thinking that Marriott must have for this program. The numbers may be slightly exagerated, but the overall model is about right.

When you model the revenue from this approach, it is hugely profitable for Marriott. The only question you should ask yourself is where this profitability is coming from? Is it coming from $100 exchange fees? No! I already showed how this is less than 1% contribution to the top line.

It is likely coming out of the resale value of current owners who want to sell their ownerships. If owners sign up for this program enmasse, they are likely to be driving down the values of their ownerships by several thousand dollars. This is why Marriott wants to have mass adoption of the program. So, they can control the inventory and recapture value.

I think Perry nailed this one. Welcome back, Perry. You are now thinking clearly again.

 

[Bill4728]

Those who bought directly from Marriott will pay a relatively low fee if they choose to join the points program. Marriott intends to make the fee low enough so that many, many owners will join. Those who bought resale will pay a higher fee, possibly much higher, if they wish to join. I don't know yet whether there will be any partial or full grandfathering for those who purchased resale before a particular unknown date.

The real key to Marriott new system will be this paragraph by Dave.

-If the fee is small enough to get people to switch, then many people will likely switch, but if Marriott tries to do what most RCI resorts are doing when they introduce RCI points ( cost to resort $200, cost to owner >$3000) Then IMHO, very few people will pay to convert to points.

 

[FlyerBobcat]

Great posting....

Heidi, be careful that you don't fall off your high horse. As a very recent resale buyer, I am happy with my purchase. I used a TUG suggestion of buying where I want to go so I know for the next 5 - 10 years minimum I will still be happy with my purchase whatever happens with a points program. (Although if they do put ina 6-month window for resale buyers I would not be.)

To be all pompous and holier-than-thou about having bought direct and that we who bought resale are just getting what we deserve is obnoxious. If future resale purchasers lose all rights (forget about current ones), the prices of resales will drop substantially. This will effect ANYONE trying to sell whether they bought direct or not. Not everyone who bought direct will have the perfect life that you are leading and will lead forever. Some people will get divorced, lose jobs, have medical problems or just need the money and they will get almost nothing for their sale. Obviously a ts is not an investment but I am sure that most have the expectation that they will be able to get something back when they sell.

How would you feel if when they assigned the points, your units were given less points than many of the others? What if your week could only get you 5 days in some of the properties? Would that make you mad? It could happen. Maybe not to you but to other direct buyers. This would be within Marriott's rights.

Is this an angry post? YES!! Whenever there was an "argument" on buying direct vs resale, many resale buyers tried to make the direct buyers feel stupid for paying so much. I thought that sucked. Now some of the direct buyers are heaping it on the resale buyers and I think that sucks as well.

We are all in this together. I pay the same maintenance as a direct buyer. I care about my property the same as a direct buyer. I shouldn't be treated as a second class citizen and neither should anyone.

 

[RandR]

Okay well first, at the risk of repeating myself for the eight hundred seventy-thirteenth time, every owner assumes the risk for a financial loss should s/he have to or want to sell his/her ownership at a future date. I don't know how many different times or ways this can be said, or why it's not sinking in, but MVCI has never assumed that risk. It boggles my mind that some folks think MVCI should begin now to concern itself with that risk. It's just a non-issue to me, and has been since the day I
purchased.

You are correct, Marriott never assumed this risk and no one should think they would. That said, how about some honesty in sales presentations. If the new program forces resale prices way down (further than even now) when a presentation is being given the salesperson says that the value of the unit you are about to buy is virtually nothing. It didn't matter to you but I bet they would lose a lot of sales if they stated that. They should really be saying that now as the resale values are dramatically below the selling price direct.

What I think about the proposal is that if enough owners join into it, then it could provide more even exchanges across the board with the advantage decidedly in favor of those who own at the more-desired MVCI resorts and those who have purchased developer-direct. But again, there are not enough details for anyone to decide right this minute if joining in is a smart move. It's wait and see time, as others have said.

But if this is the case and the program will be decidedly in favor of those in the most desired properties, why would anyone in a "not as desirable" property join? This would limit the trades for everyone.

And finally, I'll say here what I've said in many of the developer v. resale discussions on TUG. If Marriott/MVCI implements any changes with respect to ownership that offer an advantage to developer purchasers, I will not complain about MVCI making those changes so long as they do not remove any deeded rights from any owner and/or so long as any legal challenge to them could be successfully defended by MVCI.

So in other words, you don't mind if resale buyers are treated like second class citizens. (Had to use that phrase again.)

 

[indyhorizons]

I believe this is very close to the thinking that Marriott must have for this program. The numbers may be slightly exagerated, but the overall model is about right.

When you model the revenue from this approach, it is hugely profitable for Marriott. The only question you should ask yourself is where this profitability is coming from? Is it coming from $100 exchange fees? No! I already showed how this is less than 1% contribution to the top line.

It is likely coming out of the resale value of current owners who want to sell their ownerships. If owners sign up for this program enmasse, they are likely to be driving down the values of their ownerships by several thousand dollars. This is why Marriott wants to have mass adoption of the program. So, they can control the inventory and recapture value.

I think Perry nailed this one. Welcome back, Perry. You are now thinking clearly again.

This is only true for those resorts that Marriott knows they can quickly turn around. There is still no desire on Marriott's part to be holding excess inventory waiting on someone to come along and buy it. Remember, with the ability to snatch up that week for $9625 in Perry's example, come the MF's until the unit sells.

 

[sandesurf]

Okay well first, at the risk of repeating myself for the eight hundred seventy-thirteenth time, .

Why do you feel the need then??

Geez, get over it. The bottom line is, no one knows, for sure, what's going to happen.
PERIOD

 

[SueDonJ]

So in other words, you don't mind if resale buyers are treated like second class citizens. (Had to use that phrase again.)

Everything else in your post is rehash. But this is a direct insult rather than a perceived insult, and it pisses me off despite your use of a smiley. Rather passive/aggressive there, don't you think?

Where did I say that I'm okay with any owners being treated as second-class citizens? Oh, that's right, NOWHERE. Consider that it's entirely possible that any change implemented by MVCI that favors on the surface developer purchasers could in fact negatively impact my personal ownership usage, such as in this proposal if the exchange point value of my weeks does not afford me the exact same trade value that I've enjoyed up to this point with II. Would I perceive that as MVCI treating me as a second-class citizen? No, of course not, it's just the way the system would work.

Perhaps we'd all be better off if we could only stick to "the way the system works" as opposed to who of us are holier-than-thou.

 

[PerryM]

Check your wallets...

Okay well first, at the risk of repeating myself for the eight hundred seventy-thirteenth time, every owner assumes the risk for a financial loss should s/he have to or want to sell his/her ownership at a future date. I don't know how many different times or ways this can be said, or why it's not sinking in, but MVCI has never assumed that risk. It boggles my mind that some folks think MVCI should begin now to concern itself with that risk. It's just a non-issue to me, and has been since the day I purchased.

As far as the benefits to this proposed internal exchange system? I agree with you that the possibility exists that we will all end up paying for something that is similar to the exchange system now in place (which offers an MVCI-preference as well as outside-MVCI exchange opportunities.) Way back when I asked in this thread if anyone knew the terms of the existing contract between II and MVCI, with the thought that possibly MVCI will be renegotiating or terminating its partnership with II and this proposed exchange system will be somehow related to a new contract, if any. None of us can know if that's the case.

What I think about the proposal is that if enough owners join into it, then it could provide more even exchanges across the board with the advantage decidedly in favor of those who own at the more-desired MVCI resorts and those who have purchased developer-direct. But again, there are not enough details for anyone to decide right this minute if joining in is a smart move. It's wait and see time, as others have said.

As others have also said, it's all about continued revenue for Marriott/MVCI. I agree. But it appears that this proposal is a choice each owner will have to make for him/herself, and Marriott/MVCI gains no revenue from those who choose to not participate. As with every commercial venture, we speak with our pocketbooks.

And finally, I'll say here what I've said in many of the developer v. resale discussions on TUG. If Marriott/MVCI implements any changes with respect to ownership that offer an advantage to developer purchasers, I will not complain about MVCI making those changes so long as they do not remove any deeded rights from any owner and/or so long as any legal challenge to them could be successfully defended by MVCI.

Your statement is true - we will get screwed by this new exchange system.

For a new Marriott resort, one in construction and developer sales still going on then Marriott is king of the roost. They can screw around with just about anything that their lawyers say they can get away with - no arguments here.

However, take a resort like MountainSide, sales ended years ago and only resales take place. There is a Marriott salesrep hawking weeks to sell but they all come from resales. Marriott cleans the toilets and runs the front desk - that's all they do and the owners there pay for that service in their MFs.

If Marriott then introduces an exchange system that impacts the resale value of owner weeks should the owners sit by or should the HOA get upset that the value of their owner's weeks is being affected by an outside force?

That's exactly what is about to happen with this new exchange program - it will adversely impact Marriott owners and impact Marriott positively.

Don't know what can be done about it but I don't see anything to celebrate as a Marriott owner.

Marriott is declaring a war with their owners just like Wyndham has; the result will impact us all in the wallet. Wyndham resales are 5 cents on the dollar.

So even if you don't plan to join this new scheme and just use your weeks at your resort you will feel the impact of the membership fee and penalty fee for not reselling thru Marriott. These two figures will eventually be felt in the wallet.