Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[lovearuba]

email lists

This is an excellent post, RetiredtoTravel. You've so clearly articulated the concerns that we non-owners of MAOC have mentioned repeatedly here. If I was an owner there, I would feel exactly as you do. I hope that you take Dean's suggestion and contact Marriott directly with your concerns.

About your sentence that I bolded - it's entirely possible that the phone calls you're receiving from the TS realtors (which are called "postcard companies" elsewhere on TUG) have nothing to do with any MAOC ownership list that has been compiled by either a Marriott office or the minority ownership group in this thread. Those companies harvest owner names and addresses from the public records, i.e. recorded deeds, mortgages, etc...

(I've been away for a week and debated sending this in a private message to RetiredtoTravel so as to not resurrect the thread, but then I thought that maybe could be looked at as suspect because this is one of the only times I've attempted to deflect blame from Mark/Allen/etc. Oh well, it was time for someone to put it back on Page One anyway.)

For anyone who does not want contact, they can simply send an email to Allan asking him to put them on a do not email list. Marksue will have to address retiredtotravel's concern on asking him to be a friend in facebook. Retiredtotravel, there is one person who has contacted Allan asking to be taken off the email list because they did not want to be contacted, I'm not sure if it is you but I did take care of the request so if you are that person you will not be contacted again.


The registrations are growing as more folks learn about the site and the folks that have registered are appreciative about the efforts of the group and the ability of posting to the forum without the constant critique of folks that are non owners. There is a significant amount of information on the site and a forum to allow owners to communicate with each other. The website address is: www.aocconcernedowners.com

 

[SueDonJ]

For anyone who does not want contact, they can simply send an email to Allan asking him to put them on a do not email list. Marksue will have to address retiredtotravel's concern on asking him to be a friend in facebook. Retiredtotravel, there is one person who has contacted Allan asking to be taken off the email list because they did not want to be contacted, I'm not sure if it is you but I did take care of the request so if you are that person you will not be contacted again.

This doesn't really address the issue that RetiredToTravel raised, does it? RetiredToTravel has never specifically offered his contact information to any member of the "concerned owners" group. His complaint is that his email contact information has been used by Mark Silverstein (Marksue) to contact him without his express permission, and that it appears his information was harvested from an ownership list that Allan Cohen had access to and utilized as a former member of the MAOC BOD. Do the bylaws of MAOC allow for former BOD members to keep that privileged contact information for personal use after their terms have ended?

Addressing that issue, have Mark and Allan contacted other MAOC owners through similar channels? That's a concern, and that's why Dean's suggestion to contact Marriott directly should be followed.

The registrations are growing as more folks learn about the site and the folks that have registered are appreciative about the efforts of the group and the ability of posting to the forum without the constant critique of folks that are non owners. There is a significant amount of information on the site and a forum to allow owners to communicate with each other. The website address is: www.aocconcernedowners.com

Again, it's not a bad thing that you've developed a website for only those MAOC owners who support this minority ownership group's efforts and wish to discuss the issues at your resort without outside influence. But I think that it's also important for sites such as this thread on TUG to continue, because it's only on unbiased sites like this that MAOC owners can gain access to the complete information that will enable them to reach their own informed opinions - about both the issues at the resort as well as whether or not they wish to include themselves on any list of disgruntled owners that may be made available to Marriott/MVCI/the MAOC BOD in the future.

 

[lovearuba]

retired to travels concerns

If this user wanted to be taken off all lists related to the website, I have offered him advise. If Marksue has his email do not assume it came from Allan. Mark will have to answer that question. I've received lots of emails from people who I never gave my address to so I am not going to accuse Mark or Allan of doing that. I would also suggest that they address it with who they believe the offenders are.

 

[Dean]

If this user wanted to be taken off all lists related to the website, I have offered him advise. If Marksue has his email do not assume it came from Allan. Mark will have to answer that question. I've received lots of emails from people who I never gave my address to so I am not going to accuse Mark or Allan of doing that. I would also suggest that they address it with who they believe the offenders are.

If one owns at this resort and received an email about this ownership from a former BOD member or their representative without giving their info, it is reasonable to assume the email was obtained from an owners list, in this case that would be illegally as I interpret the situation. Asking to be removed does not address what I would see as the core issue, that of the illegal access and usage thereof. On a related note, one who signs up on this group and then later asks to be removed or deletes their info, does not really know their info has truly been removed.

 

[ecwinch]

If this user wanted to be taken off all lists related to the website, I have offered him advise. If Marksue has his email do not assume it came from Allan. Mark will have to answer that question. I've received lots of emails from people who I never gave my address to so I am not going to accuse Mark or Allan of doing that. I would also suggest that they address it with who they believe the offenders are.

In situations like these plausible deniability is always important. I am sure that Mark will clear the situation up.

The concern that Allan provided Mark with e-mail addresses was raised in this thread a long time ago. Let me see if I can find it....

EDIT:

Here it is.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=639586&postcount=415

here is the page link also:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=639586#post639586

Hmmm, I seem to notice that Mark just dodges the question. Perhaps he will clear it up this time.

And for our newcomers, if you read some of his post around that one, you will see why some of us do not hold Mark in high regard. Perhaps it is just a fluke that two different owners report the same experience and there is one common fact - that they both sent e-mails to Allan. Perhaps RetiredToTravel is a plant like DBerg.

 

[lovearuba]

not sure what you infer

In situations like these plausible deniability is always important. I am sure that Mark will clear the situation up.

The concern that Allan provided Mark with e-mail addresses was raised in this thread a long time ago. Let me see if I can find it....

EDIT:

Here it is.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=639586&postcount=415

here is the page link also:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=639586#post639586

Hmmm, I seem to notice that Mark just dodges the question. Perhaps he will clear it up this time.

And for our newcomers, if you read some of his post around that one, you will see why some of us do not hold Mark in high regard. Perhaps it is just a fluke that two different owners report the same experience and there is one common fact - that they both sent e-mails to Allan. Perhaps RetiredToTravel is a plant like DBerg.

Hi Eric
I am not sure what you mean by Retired to travel being a plant. No one said that but you. I've never questioned his integrity. As for DBerg, I have had direct contact with him and he is not an owner and seems to think threatening people will get them to stop supporting the cause. I've received a personal email from him so I am pretty sure he has issues. Otherwise it doesnt make a lot of sense to threaten me. I understand why you feel the way you do about Mark and I'm sure you understand my perspective on your comments. We will always disagree, I do think its fair not to assume the worst in people. As for your evidence of two owners, you expect everyone who disagrees with you to justify their cause but you take it at face value that everyone who agrees with you who says they are an owner is an owner. A little bias there.

 

[modoaruba]

WOW!
Been gone a couple of days and came back to the old what are they going to do with my info routine and how did they get my number,etc.
I've been and so has everyone out there been solicited by stuff prior to,during and so will we be after we even bought our TS's.
Actually we bought ours due to Marriott's junk mail solicitation years ago.
So by deductive reasoning,due to Marriott having gotten our personal info from whatever source it was(obviously NOT the owner's group)we got ourselves into this conundrum.
We are witnessing first hand at the damage of letting personal info out.

REALLY?

 

[SueDonJ]

WOW!
Been gone a couple of days and came back to the old what are they going to do with my info routine and how did they get my number,etc.
I've been and so has everyone out there been solicited by stuff prior to,during and so will we be after we even bought our TS's.
Actually we bought ours due to Marriott's junk mail solicitation years ago.
So by deductive reasoning,due to Marriott having gotten our personal info from whatever source it was(obviously NOT the owner's group)we got ourselves into this conundrum.
We are witnessing first hand at the damage of letting personal info out.

REALLY?

Yes, REALLY, Modo. For some reason you don't want to acknowledge the differences between the reasons and means for MAOC owners being contacted by Marriott/MVCI, the timeshare postcard companies, and Mark/Allan on behalf of this minority ownership group.

Marriott/MVCI contacts owners with advertising material for any resort and/or hotel in the Marriott family. Generally owners agree to those types of solicitations when purchasing direct from Marriott and/or when signing up for the various websites - marriottrewards.com, my-vacationclub.com, etc. That's a legal use of contact information, and offers a means by which the owners can elect to stop solicitations.

The timeshare postcard companies contact owners with targeted promotions. They harvest contact information through the public records - deeds, mortgages, etc. - of the area in which they do business. That's another legal use of contact information which the owners can elect to stop by way of Do Not Call and similar legislation.

Based on what RetiredToTravel has related here, Mark and/or Allan have contacted MAOC owners for the specific personal purpose of this minority ownership group's efforts against Marriott/MVCI/the MAOC BOD. It appears they've harvested owners' names and contact information by way of privileged information that Allan had access to as a former member of the MAOC BOD, and it appears they've been doing so since before this group established their website and/or offered owners the option to be removed from Mark's/Allan's ownership list.

All of that appears to be an illegal use of ownership contact information, unless the bylaws provide that former members of the BOD are entitled to keep and utilize any privileged information they may have obtained while members.

Whether or not this is nitpicking to you is immaterial here. Some MAOC owners may think it's important enough to consider when determining if they want to join the "concerned owners" group and/or that website, and it doesn't appear that they'll find an explanation of any of this at that website.

 

[modoaruba]

Yes, REALLY, Modo. For some reason you don't want to acknowledge the differences between the reasons and means for MAOC owners being contacted by Marriott/MVCI, the timeshare postcard companies, and Mark/Allan on behalf of this minority ownership group.

Marriott/MVCI contacts owners with advertising material for any resort and/or hotel in the Marriott family. Generally owners agree to those types of solicitations when purchasing direct from Marriott and/or when signing up for the various websites - marriottrewards.com, my-vacationclub.com, etc. That's a legal use of contact information, and offers a means by which the owners can elect to stop solicitations.

The timeshare postcard companies contact owners with targeted promotions. They harvest contact information through the public records - deeds, mortgages, etc. - of the area in which they do business. That's another legal use of contact information which the owners can elect to stop by way of Do Not Call and similar legislation.

Based on what RetiredToTravel has related here, Mark and/or Allan have contacted MAOC owners for the specific personal purpose of this minority ownership group's efforts against Marriott/MVCI/the MAOC BOD. It appears they've harvested owners' names and contact information by way of privileged information that Allan had access to as a former member of the MAOC BOD, and it appears they've been doing so since before this group established their website and/or offered owners the option to be removed from Mark's/Allan's ownership list.

All of that appears to be an illegal use of ownership contact information, unless the bylaws provide that former members of the BOD are entitled to keep and utilize any privileged information they may have obtained while members.

Whether or not this is nitpicking to you is immaterial here. Some MAOC owners may think it's important enough to consider when determining if they want to join the "concerned owners" group and/or that website, and it doesn't appear that they'll find an explanation of any of this at that website.

Very speculative on your part.
Prove illegality before you throw it out there.
Some MAOC "may"?-of course the use of this word is carefully chosen.
Also prove damage.

It is nitpicking at best- BS.

I guarantee that no one will try to solicit anyone to buy a magazine by having signed up on the owner's site.(I don't have anything to do with the site except viewing it.-funny defending it).

 

[SueDonJ]

Very speculative on your part.
Prove illegality before you throw it out there.
Some MAOC "may"?-of course the use of this word is carefully chosen.
Also prove damage.

It is nitpicking at best- BS.

I guarantee that no one will try to solicit anyone to buy a magazine by having signed up on the owner's site.(I don't have anything to do with the site except viewing it.-funny defending it).

Oh, I see how it is. The "concerned owners" who have formed this minority dissenting group against Marriott/MVCI/the MAOC BOD can throw out all sorts of speculative stuff without proving illegality on Marriott's part. But those of us who disagree with or question that minority group's opinions/actions cannot, even if we qualify our thoughts with phrases such as "it appears" or "it may," etc.

Anyway, it's beyond me how you can think that you can take legal action of any kind against Marriott et al without "nitpicking." That's what laws entail, Modo - nitpicking!

 

[modoaruba]

Oh, I see how it is. The "concerned owners" who have formed this minority dissenting group against Marriott/MVCI/the MAOC BOD can throw out all sorts of speculative stuff without proving illegality on Marriott's part. But those of us who disagree with or question that minority group's opinions/actions cannot, even if we qualify our thoughts with phrases such as "it appears" or "it may," etc.

Anyway, it's beyond me how you can think that you can take legal action of any kind against Marriott et al without "nitpicking." That's what laws entail, Modo - nitpicking!

So that's how the right nitpicking lawyers were able to give the go ahead for Marriott to send me the junk mail as opposed to The GRoup not having the right nitpicker to state their facts,so therefore they are not allowed to ask me to join- in your opinion.
It comes down to the group better get a darn good nitpicker.
Getting silly isn't it.
For those owners who want to get an insight as to the group's site as to what it's about,go there it's pretty tame compared to here.Just friendly owners.

And,by the way,I am NOT taking legal action against Marriott.

 

[lovearuba]

and what about credit card info

Yes, REALLY, Modo. For some reason you don't want to acknowledge the differences between the reasons and means for MAOC owners being contacted by Marriott/MVCI, the timeshare postcard companies, and Mark/Allan on behalf of this minority ownership group.

Marriott/MVCI contacts owners with advertising material for any resort and/or hotel in the Marriott family. Generally owners agree to those types of solicitations when purchasing direct from Marriott and/or when signing up for the various websites - marriottrewards.com, my-vacationclub.com, etc. That's a legal use of contact information, and offers a means by which the owners can elect to stop solicitations.

The timeshare postcard companies contact owners with targeted promotions. They harvest contact information through the public records - deeds, mortgages, etc. - of the area in which they do business. That's another legal use of contact information which the owners can elect to stop by way of Do Not Call and similar legislation.

Based on what RetiredToTravel has related here, Mark and/or Allan have contacted MAOC owners for the specific personal purpose of this minority ownership group's efforts against Marriott/MVCI/the MAOC BOD. It appears they've harvested owners' names and contact information by way of privileged information that Allan had access to as a former member of the MAOC BOD, and it appears they've been doing so since before this group established their website and/or offered owners the option to be removed from Mark's/Allan's ownership list.

All of that appears to be an illegal use of ownership contact information, unless the bylaws provide that former members of the BOD are entitled to keep and utilize any privileged information they may have obtained while members.

Whether or not this is nitpicking to you is immaterial here. Some MAOC owners may think it's important enough to consider when determining if they want to join the "concerned owners" group and/or that website, and it doesn't appear that they'll find an explanation of any of this at that website.

Since you are back on board justifying Marriotts use of your data, were you offended when they gave your credit card info out? Just dont understand why you havent been writing for two years complaining about that. Its more of your scare tactics to try to prevent people from signing up. It is not working, there are a significant number of owners who have registered and it increases daily. They dont seem to have your concerns. I am taking a break from tug for a bit as I have registrations to approve.

 

[SueDonJ]

Since you are back on board justifying Marriotts use of your data, were you offended when they gave your credit card info out? Just dont understand why you havent been writing for two years complaining about that. Its more of your scare tactics to try to prevent people from signing up. It is not working, there are a significant number of owners who have registered and it increases daily. They dont seem to have your concerns. I am taking a break from tug for a bit as I have registrations to approve.

I'm not sure what you're writing about here because my credit card info has never been "given out" by Marriott. I do remember the discussion in this thread about it happening to others, though, and I related then that a similar security breach had happened with our debit card information at BJ's Wholesale Club. But I don't think I've said that it's ever a good thing when contact and/or financial information is illegally released/used for any reason. Of course it's not a good thing, which is why it's important to point out that it may be happening here.

You can call it scare tactics if you want, but I'll continue to post my opinions here in this thread when/if I see things that I would find questionable if they were happening in regard to my home resorts or ownership. That's TUG's greatest strength, I think, that the various differing opinions make it possible for any timeshare owners to become completely informed about all aspects of ownership.

 

[marksue]

Retired to Travel

It was not my intention to invite you to facebook. Just so you understand and anyone else who got the invite. WHen you join it turns out unless you hit skip on a certain page it goes out to your AOL account and sends an email to anyone you have emailed in the past since aol adds all emails to your address book. Sorry you got the email.

 

[Luckybee]

Mark...I suppose I should write you a private email for this since its a bit off topic but how did you find out about this. Reason I ask is that I had a situation arise with a business colleague who very much had a problem with his computer sending out facebook invitations to a number of business colleagues and it has proved rather embarrasing for him and he hasnt been able to determine how it happened....can you elaborate a bit ? Or send me an email doing so? And if you do can you give very simple steps for those of us who know very little about computers

 

[marksue]

Lucky,

I will send you a note tonight as I can not get to facebook from my office as they block access to the site. The thing is it can happen over and over again. One of the PIA things with facebook.

 

[ecwinch]

I notice that Mark has visited the forum.

I also notice that he has failed to address the recent and previous allegations that Allan provided him with e-mail addresses of owners that Allan obtained in his official capacity as a member of the AOC board.

Seems like it is a simple issue to resolve. Mark only need say:

"I have never received any e-mail addresses from Allan."

?

 

[ecwinch]

So that's how the right nitpicking lawyers were able to give the go ahead for Marriott to send me the junk mail as opposed to The GRoup not having the right nitpicker to state their facts,so therefore they are not allowed to ask me to join- in your opinion.
It comes down to the group better get a darn good nitpicker.
Getting silly isn't it.
For those owners who want to get an insight as to the group's site as to what it's about,go there it's pretty tame compared to here.Just friendly owners.

And,by the way,I am NOT taking legal action against Marriott.

Another post that completely ignores the point that Sue made and instead tries to steer the conversation into absurd analogies.

You might have just posted "Look over there - is that Elvis?"

 

[ecwinch]

We will always disagree, I do think its fair not to assume the worst in people.

I take it you apply this advice to everyone except AOC board members? Board members who are volunteers and owners just like you.

 

[marksue]

I notice that Mark has visited the forum.

I also notice that he has failed to address the recent and previous allegations that Allan provided him with e-mail addresses of owners that Allan obtained in his official capacity as a member of the AOC board.

Seems like it is a simple issue to resolve. Mark only need say:

"I have never received any e-mail addresses from Allan."

?

I have never received any e-mail addresses from Allan that he obtained from marriott in his official capacity as of member of the board.

You satisfied lol

 

[ecwinch]

I have never received any e-mail addresses from Allan that he obtained from marriott in his official capacity as of member of the board.

You satisfied lol

Unfortunately no. Would you mind restating it and removing the "FROM MARRIOTT" caveat? That is the crux of question. Surely as some point Allan has provided you with some e-mail addresses. The concern is specific to his service on the board.

It is safe to assume that Allan received communication - either directly or AOC forwarded to him - from AOC owners. Apparently at one point in time the AOC published an e-mail address for Allan. This is one of your complaints - that they removed the director e-mail addresses from the website.

The initial report on this problem was in regard to an e-mail that was allegedly sent by you and in that e-mail, you indicate that you received the owner's e-mail address from Allan.

Those e-mails were in his official capacity as a member of the board - just as I receive e-mail from my customers. But I cannot harvest those addresses and provide them to a third-party. That is the allegation.

The allegation is not that Marriott provided the owners list to Allan and he in turn has given it to you. So lets try to be clear.

 

[modoaruba]

I just view the absurdity as the entertainment anymore.
Better than reality TV.

The more reason for owners to check out the owner's site.
See what others are trying to prevent you from seeing.

Ever wanted to see what's behind the curtain?

Eric,I am always right and you are not. So there.

 

[SueDonJ]

It was not my intention to invite you to facebook. Just so you understand and anyone else who got the invite. WHen you join it turns out unless you hit skip on a certain page it goes out to your AOL account and sends an email to anyone you have emailed in the past since aol adds all emails to your address book. Sorry you got the email.

I still don't understand how you got RetiredToTravels' email address in the first place. If he got an automatic Facebook invite from you because his contact information was already in your AOL address book, how did it get there?

 

[SueDonJ]

Unfortunately no. Would you mind restating it and removing the "FROM MARRIOTT" caveat? That is the crux of question. Surely as some point Allan has provided you with some e-mail addresses. The concern is specific to his service on the board.

It is safe to assume that Allan received communication - either directly or AOC forwarded to him - from AOC owners. Apparently at one point in time the AOC published an e-mail address for Allan. This is one of your complaints - that they removed the director e-mail addresses from the website.

The initial report on this problem was in regard to an e-mail that was allegedly sent by you and in that e-mail, you indicate that you received the owner's e-mail address from Allan.

Those e-mails were in his official capacity as a member of the board - just as I receive e-mail from my customers. But I cannot harvest those addresses and provide them to a third-party. That is the allegation.

The allegation is not that Marriott provided the owners list to Allan and he in turn has given it to you. So lets try to be clear.

Silly Eric, now you're just nitpicking.

 

[modoaruba]

I still don't understand how you got RetiredToTravels' email address in the first place. If he got an automatic Facebook invite from you because his contact information was already in your AOL address book, how did it get there?

Ditto to you too Sue.

I'll be sure to raise my hand before I can go to the bathroom.