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Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

ecwinch

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Very scary!!! Holloween is in 2 days.

Excellent example of my previous point. Lets mock the opinion rather than responding to it. And you wonder why so much attention is focused on questioning the tactics the crusaders use.
 

modoaruba

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Excellent example of my previous point. Lets mock the opinion rather than responding to it. And you wonder why so much attention is focused on questioning the tactics the crusaders use.

Hey Eric,I was wondering when you'd join in.
Whassup?
Anyway,mocking the mockery is fair play.
One side is trying to diffuse the group from amassing while the group is trying to pull together without outside distractions.
Instead of going head to head which will get everyone,no matter what side you're on,nowhere,utilization of this thread should suffice to get points across and debates.
Let the group do it's thing.Who cares?
Too much importance is displaced on the wrong things.
I am not against debate but I am against those who do not wish to see the group have their own site.Very weird to me.This subject of having their own site should not even be an issue.
If I want to advertise on this board that I want to start my own site and those that agree with me can join,you know what I would tell the opposition.
But I'm to much of a gentleman.IMO!
 

Luckybee

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Why does it seem like there always is one of two reoccurring themes when someone does not agree with the crusade:

1) If they might be an owner, they must be a mole, agent of the board, or Marriott employee
2) If they do not own, they are just stirring up trouble or like to debate

Why cannot it just be reasonable people who see the facts differently then you do.

Why always the need to marginalize other posters?

It isnt a matter of marginalizing anyone Eric. I get concerned when there is someone who is purporting to be an owner who isnt. Or when someone is purporting to be someone who they are not. What you may not be aware of is that there is a David Berg who is an owner who is as I understand it quite concerned by the use of his name both on this board and elsewhere by someone who purports to be him. My comments have nothing to do whatsoever with the "side" anyone is on and I'm sorry if you cant understand the concerns that I was speaking to. "It isnt a matter of "reasonable" people seeing anything.

On the website issues I have no comment to make here other than to say a website has been started by members of the concerned owners group. It is their website...they can choose who to accept and who to reject. From reading these posts the criteria seems clear.
 
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timeos2

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Opportunity wasted it seems

I'm just waiting for some concrete, factual news that anything the complaining group has done has actually resulted in a change they wished to see. So far they are batting zero and it doesn't look like it will be changing based on the ongoing petty rants and lack of significant, enforceable action. It would seem that everything Marriott has asked for or imposed has been implemented and the original plans/payout/etc are moving ahead exactly as they had been approved, over a year ago now. The chances of ever reversing the actions, getting more money for items now considered to be resolved or refunding money billed & paid also would seem to be close to zero. Owners have swallowed the cost and moved on. I'd say the "crusade" fell short and going forward the interest is minor at best. The time to get the owners up in arms and active came and went.

There may have been a basis for some changes but over reaching probably killed any chance they originally had.
 

ecwinch

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Hey Eric,I was wondering when you'd join in.
Whassup?
Anyway,mocking the mockery is fair play.
One side is trying to diffuse the group from amassing while the group is trying to pull together without outside distractions.
Instead of going head to head which will get everyone,no matter what side you're on,nowhere,utilization of this thread should suffice to get points across and debates.
Let the group do it's thing.Who cares?
Too much importance is displaced on the wrong things.
I am not against debate but I am against those who do not wish to see the group have their own site.Very weird to me.This subject of having their own site should not even be an issue.
If I want to advertise on this board that I want to start my own site and those that agree with me can join,you know what I would tell the opposition.
But I'm to much of a gentleman.IMO!

I made this point a few days ago, but apparently you skipped over it, so let me make it again.

Where exactly has it been suggested that the group should not have their own site?

I just went back and skimmed over the past couple of pages again. I do not see any significant posts asking that question. In fact, you seem to mention it more frequently than anyone.
 

ecwinch

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It isnt a matter of marginalizing anyone Eric. I get concerned when there is someone who is purporting to be an owner who isnt. Or when someone is purporting to be someone who they are not. What you may not be aware of is that there is a David Berg who is an owner who is as I understand it quite concerned by the use of his name both on this board and elsewhere by someone who purports to be him. My comments have nothing to do whatsoever with the "side" anyone is on and I'm sorry if you cant understand the concerns that I was speaking to. "It isnt a matter of "reasonable" people seeing anything.

People can have the same name. Is that true?

You do not know if the poster is named Dave Berg. Is that true?

You do not know if the poster is the Dave Berg who is an owner. Is that true?

There are no US or Canada laws that cover using creating a UserID on a internet forum. Is that true?
 

modoaruba

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I made this point a few days ago, but apparently you skipped over it, so let me make it again.

Where exactly has it been suggested that the group should not have their own site?

I just went back and skimmed over the past couple of pages again. I do not see any significant posts asking that question. In fact, you seem to mention it more frequently than anyone.

The point I am making is not that someone came outright and stated such,it's by inference of posts as in Sue's where there are questions regarding how one is to get onto the site.
It seems there are a few postings that try to deligitimize the site by reference to legalities,scare tactics and such.So I interpret those posts as antagonistic for what ever reason is behind them.
Personaly,I see that I am one of a very few that shares this view or willing to respond and that's OK.
I am offering an opinion not based on sides but based on principle.
 

ecwinch

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The point I am making is not that someone came outright and stated such,it's by inference of posts as in Sue's where there are questions regarding how one is to get onto the site.
It seems there are a few postings that try to deligitimize the site by reference to legalities,scare tactics and such.So I interpret those posts as antagonistic for what ever reason is behind them.
Personaly,I see that I am one of a very few that shares this view or willing to respond and that's OK.
I am offering an opinion not based on sides but based on principle.

As one that is on the "other side", I do not think anyone has contested that they have a right to set-up their own site.

And the posts are just to alert other members of some of the potential pitfalls given the history of the crusaders. Clearly one reason for setting it up, is to avoid exposing members to the entire story, and to censor out unfavorable opinions. Not exactly how I would choose to conduct an owner advocacy campaign, but certainly their right.

But one of the complaints of the crusaders is that they are being effectively censored by being denied access to the owners list.

So why would a group that is fighting against censorship, engage in it on their site? That would seem to be a disconnect. And that is all censorship is, finding a way to silence the opinion you do not agree with.

In that context are the crusaders any different than the AOC board?
 

modoaruba

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As one that is on the "other side", I do not think anyone has contested that they have a right to set-up their own site.

And the posts are just to alert other members of some of the potential pitfalls given the history of the crusaders. Clearly one reason for setting it up, is to avoid exposing members to the entire story, and to censor out unfavorable opinions. Not exactly how I would choose to conduct an owner advocacy campaign, but certainly their right.

But one of the complaints of the crusaders is that they are being effectively censored by being denied access to the owners list.

So why would a group that is fighting against censorship, engage in it on their site? That would seem to be a disconnect. And that is all censorship is, finding a way to silence the opinion you do not agree with.

In that context are the crusaders any different than the AOC board?

I understand your views but the issue at hand as I see it is not how or why or whatever reason is behind the group's site.
I am not conducting a group analysis.
But sometimes you have to get a group huddle to work more effectively. I
bet that the Board did so inorder to come out with their response as we saw in a previous post.I am not condemning them for it.That's what they had to do.No one on this thread had to influence them to come out with their reply nor should those opposing the group's site impose on whatever the group's intention is.
This thread is a free for all.Sometimes right on and sometimes right out of there.
Again,I am speaking of principle for the right to exist without condemnation which I am getting through inference.
It has nothing to do with opposing views and which is right or wrong.
Live and let live.
 

lovearuba

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responses

The point I am making is not that someone came outright and stated such,it's by inference of posts as in Sue's where there are questions regarding how one is to get onto the site.
It seems there are a few postings that try to deligitimize the site by reference to legalities,scare tactics and such.So I interpret those posts as antagonistic for what ever reason is behind them.
Personaly,I see that I am one of a very few that shares this view or willing to respond and that's OK.
I am offering an opinion not based on sides but based on principle.

I respond periodically to keep this thread alive and speak to owners. When the conversation focuses on challenging our actions, I refrain as much as possible because its not worth it. I respect people having a right to their own opinion I dont respect people who try to belittle the cause with statements indicating the disenting group, the crusaders and all of that nonsense. I do appreciate your opinions and value them. I also appreciate this thread which is increasing the number of registrations on the site. Yeah tug.:whoopie:
 

Dean

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No,just an extra fee.
Not for me, quite the contrary.

Hey Eric,I was wondering when you'd join in.
Whassup?
Anyway,mocking the mockery is fair play.
One side is trying to diffuse the group from amassing while the group is trying to pull together without outside distractions.
Instead of going head to head which will get everyone,no matter what side you're on,nowhere,utilization of this thread should suffice to get points across and debates.
Let the group do it's thing.Who cares?
Too much importance is displaced on the wrong things.
I am not against debate but I am against those who do not wish to see the group have their own site.Very weird to me.This subject of having their own site should not even be an issue.
If I want to advertise on this board that I want to start my own site and those that agree with me can join,you know what I would tell the opposition.
But I'm to much of a gentleman.IMO!
Eric is correct that those that aren't marching behind the 2 or 3 people in charge are attacked, whether they be owners or not. We've already heard how at least some of the names on the original petition were obtained under false pretenses. We also have a site supposedly for concerned owners where concerned owners aren't welcome if they don't agree in writing up front and provide far more personal information than I personally would be comfortable providing. IMO, the website URL does not tell the story as was mentioned above.

At this point this is becoming comical. I do hope it works out for the owners there but as I've predicted, my suspicion is that the best owners will actually come out of this is a break even and it's not unlikely this move will cost owners far more in the long run than the SA but we shall see.

As for the goal for more transparency, I stated early on this is not a measurable issue, it is subjective and as such there is no real end in sight.

The point I am making is not that someone came outright and stated such,it's by inference of posts as in Sue's where there are questions regarding how one is to get onto the site.
It seems there are a few postings that try to deligitimize the site by reference to legalities,scare tactics and such.So I interpret those posts as antagonistic for what ever reason is behind them.
Personaly,I see that I am one of a very few that shares this view or willing to respond and that's OK.
I am offering an opinion not based on sides but based on principle.
I don't recall anything along those lines but this is a long thread so my memory could be failing. I recall that I suggested several times that there was risk esp. for Allan given his probable breech of his BOD oath, that certainly was not a scare tactic but I consider it to be both truthful and accurate. That he's willing to put himself out there is either brave or foolish, time will tell which. There is similar but less risk to others spearheading the group but IF this ends up costing the owners there in one way or another whether it be money wise or loss of Marriott management, there is significant risk to certain principles IMO. Again, no threat, just my opinion and analysis of the situation at hand.
 

modoaruba

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Not for me, quite the contrary.

Eric is correct that those that aren't marching behind the 2 or 3 people in charge are attacked, whether they be owners or not. We've already heard how at least some of the names on the original petition were obtained under false pretenses. We also have a site supposedly for concerned owners where concerned owners aren't welcome if they don't agree in writing up front and provide far more personal information than I personally would be comfortable providing. IMO, the website URL does not tell the story as was mentioned above.

At this point this is becoming comical. I do hope it works out for the owners there but as I've predicted, my suspicion is that the best owners will actually come out of this is a break even and it's not unlikely this move will cost owners far more in the long run than the SA but we shall see.

As for the goal for more transparency, I stated early on this is not a measurable issue, it is subjective and as such there is no real end in sight.

I don't recall anything along those lines but this is a long thread so my memory could be failing. I recall that I suggested several times that there was risk esp. for Allan given his probable breech of his BOD oath, that certainly was not a scare tactic but I consider it to be both truthful and accurate. That he's willing to put himself out there is either brave or foolish, time will tell which. There is similar but less risk to others spearheading the group but IF this ends up costing the owners there in one way or another whether it be money wise or loss of Marriott management, there is significant risk to certain principles IMO. Again, no threat, just my opinion and analysis of the situation at hand.

Dean
I appreciate your view.
There has been some over zealous posts on both sides which obviously serve no purpose.
I am sure the group has quite a following due to taking sides or just out of curiosity and this thread helps it along even through the negatives.
Time will tell.
Lets hope for the best for ALL.
 

Dean

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Dean
I appreciate your view.
There has been some over zealous posts on both sides which obviously serve no purpose.
I am sure the group has quite a following due to taking sides or just out of curiosity and this thread helps it along even through the negatives.
Time will tell.
Lets hope for the best for ALL.
No doubt, we all want what's best for the members. I'm not sure there has been a lot of intensity from those that are not directly affected (many of us may be indirectly) other than in response to some personal attacks and inappropriate posts from those emotionally involved such as the idea that one shouldn't post on this thread if they didn't own there. IMO, much of the intensity and dissension has been from those that simply couldn't accept that some didn't take their side and view as gospel, it seems some took skepticism and an open mind as a personal attack on their honesty and integrity.
 

Luckybee

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No doubt, we all want what's best for the members. I'm not sure there has been a lot of intensity from those that are not directly affected (many of us may be indirectly) other than in response to some personal attacks and inappropriate posts from those emotionally involved such as the idea that one shouldn't post on this thread if they didn't own there. IMO, much of the intensity and dissension has been from those that simply couldn't accept that some didn't take their side and view as gospel, it seems some took skepticism and an open mind as a personal attack on their honesty and integrity.

Some of us still feel that this topic is better left to owners....and isnt it wonderful that those who feel that way now have a site where they can do just that :)

Imho much of the intensity has come from those of us who feel that it really has nothing to do with non owners....and those of you who feel otherwise....now we dont have to deal with any of that since as I understand from the moderator of the site she is intending to be quite vigilant in keeping out non owners. I understand she already has :)
 

Dean

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Some of us still feel that this topic is better left to owners....and isnt it wonderful that those who feel that way now have a site where they can do just that :)

Imho much of the intensity has come from those of us who feel that it really has nothing to do with non owners....and those of you who feel otherwise....now we dont have to deal with any of that since as I understand from the moderator of the site she is intending to be quite vigilant in keeping out non owners. I understand she already has :)
A separate site is exactly where it should be for such a purpose but it's not appropriate on TUG. I suggested it many months ago.
 

modoaruba

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A separate site is exactly where it should be for such a purpose but it's not appropriate on TUG. I suggested it many months ago.

Not appropriate on TUG???
Anyone who owns or is thinking of buying a time share should at least have a heads up.
Dean,don't you have a stake in the TS market since you own quite a few and trying to rent or trying to sell some?
Any negative posts are directly antagonistic to your efforts.NO???
I do not think that your motives of your posts are truely without prejudice.IMO!!!
 

Luckybee

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Not for me, quite the contrary.

Eric is correct that those that aren't marching behind the 2 or 3 people in charge are attacked, whether they be owners or not.



Btw...where in heavens name did you ever get the idea there were 2 or 3 people "in charge"....lol....you dont have to answer ...it was a rhetorical question in reference to your quote. I just picked up on it now and knew there were others who would find it as amusing as I did so I had to highlight it for that reason ! Lovearuba....ty ty ty for developing the owners site. It's post like this that are soooooooo off base that proves how much we needed it.
 

Dean

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Not appropriate on TUG???
Anyone who owns or is thinking of buying a time share should at least have a heads up.
Dean,don't you have a stake in the TS market since you own quite a few and trying to rent or trying to sell some?
Any negative posts are directly antagonistic to your efforts.NO???
I do not think that your motives of your posts are truely without prejudice.IMO!!!
Not appropriate to try to limit to owners only on TUG, not the discussion in general. I do have a couple of HH weeks for rent next summer and a HI week, I don't see this as a deterrent there, I doubt it's much of a deterrent for Aruba either if one were renting there. I have a much large stake in the system in general with what I use. As I stated, this has the potential to affect all Marriott owners and to a degree, most timeshare owners. There is no conflict of interest or hidden motive on my part if that's what you're suggesting.

Btw...where in heavens name did you ever get the idea there were 2 or 3 people "in charge"....lol....you dont have to answer ...it was a rhetorical question in reference to your quote. I just picked up on it now and knew there were others who would find it as amusing as I did so I had to highlight it for that reason ! Lovearuba....ty ty ty for developing the owners site. It's post like this that are soooooooo off base that proves how much we needed it.
It's very clear there are a handful of people running the show, 2 or 3 was more figurative than specific maybe it's 5 or 6, and there always has to be in such an effort. Without zealot's, these type of things never proceed, rightly or wrongly so. So yes there are a handful of people in charge whether you want to admit it or not. If there weren't you'd have a lot more problems than you have and would not have gotten this far. That's not to say others not in charge don't agree although it's very likely that the masses don't have exactly the same view as those in charge as to resolve and possible approaches and outcomes.
 
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Luckybee

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Not appropriate to try to limit to owners only on TUG, not the discussion in general. I do have a couple of HH weeks for rent next summer and a HI week, I don't see this as a deterrent there, I doubt it's much of a deterrent for Aruba either if one were renting there. I have a much large stake in the system in general with what I use. As I stated, this has the potential to affect all Marriott owners and to a degree, most timeshare owners. There is no conflict of interest or hidden motive on my part if that's what you're suggesting.

It's very clear there are a handful of people running the show, 2 or 3 was more figurative than specific maybe it's 5 or 6, and there always has to be in such an effort. Without zealot's, these type of things never proceed, rightly or wrongly so. So yes there are a handful of people in charge whether you want to admit it or not. If there weren't you'd have a lot more problems than you have and would not have gotten this far. That's not to say others not in charge don't agree although it's very likely that the masses don't have exactly the same view as those in charge as to resolve and possible approaches and outcomes.

Ok....if you say so:rolleyes:
 

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I have been away for a while. I am sure by now, Mark has proven Marriott hid info and had them pay LOTS of money for all the repairs plus Mark got the HOA replaced with people that HE can trust. I am also sure he got the annual dues back in order and got refunds for all the owners. Am I close ?
 
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vincenzi

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I have been away fro a while. I am sure by now, Mark has proved Marriott hid info and had them pay LOTS of money for all the repairs plus Mark got the HOA replaced with people that HE can trust. I am also sure he got the annual dues back in order and gor refunds for all the owners. Am I close ?

Eric, why are you so sarcastic?
 

modoaruba

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I have been away fro a while. I am sure by now, Mark has proved Marriott hid info and had them pay LOTS of money for all the repairs plus Mark got the HOA replaced with people that HE can trust. I am also sure he got the annual dues back in order and gor refunds for all the owners. Am I close ?

Your clairvoyence is absolutely amazing.
 

marksue

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Really? That would contradict Marksue's recent post that it was necessary to file a lawsuit to gain access to the ownership list. If it can be (and was) obtained legally, why the lawsuit necessity? If it can't be obtained without a lawsuit (and wasn't,) how is the Moderator verifying the ownership information of those website registrations?

The list was obtained because of the first step of the lawsuit. It only has the Aruba address so the second step is to obtain the actual addresses of all owners so we can contact them directly, the same way Marriott contacts owners.
 

oldone

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Hello,

I'm new to this web site and found it from a fellow owner at the Aruba Ocean Club. I read a little of the information here but gave up because it is just far too long. I tried to get into the other web site but I'm not giving out all the information that they're asking for (paranoid New Yorker I guess). Can anyone summarize the information for me in a non-biased way? I would like to see lower fees but I don't want to create a huge mess with a law suit. The Ocean Club is looking really good since the up-dates and I can see where our money has gone and don't understand the goals of the group who started all this. Seems like if they try to squeeze Marriott for money then our fees will only go up more than they already are. I feel like Marriott has explained the extra charges, and i could easily see where the money went at the resort.
 
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