Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[taffy19]

On average over the past nine years, only two Marriott resorts per year have had special assessments. That's a bit misleading because several resorts have spread such assessments out over multiple years and I included each year of such an assessment as a separate assessment.

In other words, Marriott has done a good job, I would say. It's just so unfortunate what happened here.

 

[marksue]

comments from another owner who was at the Owners meeting.

I was given permission to post this. so dont shoot the messenger, but you will . (I did clean up a few things that was in his email so it could be posted ... fair disclosure)

The annual meeting, dog and pony show, was held 5/15/09. I have been to annual meetings before, but was appalled by this one. First our extremely so called leader Frank Knox read his opening statement without looking up once, and still couldn’t keep his place or pronounce half the words. He then turned the meeting over to a parliamentarian who was brought in by Marriott to stop anything against their will from happening. She stopped everyone from complaining or asking questions by ruling “out of order” on questions asked or and wouldn’t allow comments, because it was detrimental to Marriott.

Allan Cohen, the only board member that has the peoples interest in mind was stymied in his attempts to try to get some motions passed that would have made the board transparent. Second the Financial Reports were never even mentioned, these should have been read and commented on!!!!

Melissa's financial committee discovered what I had, the $ 71.00 storm assessment times weeks owned equals $804,000 the cleanup cost $104,000, so it was way overstated, which basically means that, the costs are not supervised and the assessments are not reviewed by us, they are just sent out according to Marriotts’ whims. Where is the extra money going?

I spent 2 ½ hours with Cory, Elaine and Ricardo going over the draft financials and can see what they tried to do, but I do not agree to how they are doing this.


Third Marriott voted their shares, they never had before, and therefore stacked the board, Frank would have been out!!!.. My summary is this meeting should have just been termed Marriotts’ Dog and Pony Show, they told what they plan on doing with no input from us. If Mr. Marriott was there he would have died, this is his name that is being ruined… most people there said that they only bought because of the name.

 

[ecwinch]

I am not going to shoot the messenger. Just wish we had a more impartial view of the events. The verbiage the author uses indicates a bias that does not contribute to the veracity of the report.

I appreciate the report - just wish we had more balanced report of the events.

And face, you guys have decided to play hard-ball, and MVCI is just matching you tic for tac. Annual meetings are not a place for people to make speeches. That is what parliamentary procedures are designed to mitigate. Not sure why that is a smoking gun.

And to answer the poster rhetorically question, I would bet the excess from the storm assessment is being used to repair damage from storm in addition to the "clean-up". OR maybe it is going into the BOD's pockets. I wonder which conclusion the author would have us reach?

 

[modoaruba]

I am not going to shoot the messenger. Just wish we had a more impartial view of the events. The verbiage the author uses indicates a bias that does not contribute to the veracity of the report.

I appreciate the report - just wish we had more balanced report of the events.

And face, you guys have decided to play hard-ball, and MVCI is just matching you tic for tac. Annual meetings are not a place for people to make speeches. That is what parliamentary procedures are designed to mitigate. Not sure why that is a smoking gun.

And to answer the poster rhetorically question, I would bet the excess from the storm assessment is being used to repair damage from storm in addition to the "clean-up". OR maybe it is going into the BOD's pockets. I wonder which conclusion the author would have us reach?

First of all how would you come to the conclusion that Marriott is matching tic for tac unless you know something that I don't.

Also I would also like to hear the opposing side.
That IS what this whole thing is about.
Besides Mr. Knox and Marriott telling us that it's a beautiful day in Aruba, what else have they told us?

 

[marksue]

The $71 is a good question as we were told when it was announced it was to recover the money required to repair the storm damage. Understand they didn’t know the full amount when it was announced, but since it was announced they have come back and told us the total cost was a lot less than expected and was only 100k. So why not tell us what happened to the rest of the money.

Another open issue and still open is the condition of the building. Frank sent an email that everything was fine (environmental, structural, roof). Since that note Frank has said " I don’t have everything I need on these reports". So why tell us everything is ok and then say you don’t have everything you need?

It all goes back to the issue here of a lack of transparency. That is what we are fighting for and the BOD has yet to be honest with the owners or they leave out key information in their messages. Not being an owner you don't get all the info. You hear what the board states, and think they are being transparent. If we felt they were being open and honest then we would stop, but there actions over and over have proven otherwise.

I certainly respect non owners views and opinions, but the board actions, have proven to owners that they are not being forthcoming with all the information.

 

[Eric]

Just one question. Is this the same owner who used your home computer to create an account on TUG and back everything you said YET it wasn't you of course ?

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=724026&postcount=1131

(Credibility is hard to get back once you lose it)

I was given permission to post this. so dont shoot the messenger, but you will . (I did clean up a few things that was in his email so it could be posted ... fair disclosure)

The annual meeting, dog and pony show, was held 5/15/09. I have been to annual meetings before, but was appalled by this one. First our extremely so called leader Frank Knox read his opening statement without looking up once, and still couldn’t keep his place or pronounce half the words. He then turned the meeting over to a parliamentarian who was brought in by Marriott to stop anything against their will from happening. She stopped everyone from complaining or asking questions by ruling “out of order” on questions asked or and wouldn’t allow comments, because it was detrimental to Marriott.

Allan Cohen, the only board member that has the peoples interest in mind was stymied in his attempts to try to get some motions passed that would have made the board transparent. Second the Financial Reports were never even mentioned, these should have been read and commented on!!!!

Melissa's financial committee discovered what I had, the $ 71.00 storm assessment times weeks owned equals $804,000 the cleanup cost $104,000, so it was way overstated, which basically means that, the costs are not supervised and the assessments are not reviewed by us, they are just sent out according to Marriotts’ whims. Where is the extra money going?

I spent 2 ½ hours with Cory, Elaine and Ricardo going over the draft financials and can see what they tried to do, but I do not agree to how they are doing this.


Third Marriott voted their shares, they never had before, and therefore stacked the board, Frank would have been out!!!.. My summary is this meeting should have just been termed Marriotts’ Dog and Pony Show, they told what they plan on doing with no input from us. If Mr. Marriott was there he would have died, this is his name that is being ruined… most people there said that they only bought because of the name.

 

[london]

How Many Owners At Aruba Ocean Club

Just curious, how many unit week owners at this resort.

Is the resort sold out?

How long are the terms of each board member?

What is the occupancy rate of owners vs non owners?

Perhaps Marriott and on site management now have a better handle on operating and reserve costs.

Owners should contact board members directly via letter or email.

Long threads on the TUB BBS may not resolve the issues.

 

[ecwinch]

The $71 is a good question as we were told when it was announced it was to recover the money required to repair the storm damage. Understand they didn’t know the full amount when it was announced, but since it was announced they have come back and told us the total cost was a lot less than expected and was only 100k. So why not tell us what happened to the rest of the money.

Another open issue and still open is the condition of the building. Frank sent an email that everything was fine (environmental, structural, roof). Since that note Frank has said " I don’t have everything I need on these reports". So why tell us everything is ok and then say you don’t have everything you need?

It all goes back to the issue here of a lack of transparency. That is what we are fighting for and the BOD has yet to be honest with the owners or they leave out key information in their messages. Not being an owner you don't get all the info. You hear what the board states, and think they are being transparent. If we felt they were being open and honest then we would stop, but there actions over and over have proven otherwise.

I certainly respect non owners views and opinions, but the board actions, have proven to owners that they are not being forthcoming with all the information.

What could the current BOD do to be more transparent? What would be your plan if you were elected to the BOD?

What has been missing from this whole discussion is meaningful dialog of what the BOD could do to address your concerns. It is all rhetoric and how you disagree with what they are doing, rather than what they could do to improve the situation.

Have you ever made a suggestion to the BOD on what they could do to address your concerns? Besides meeting with you?

 

[Dave M]

Have you ever made a suggestion to the BOD on what they could do to address your concerns? Besides meeting with you?

That question is more than adequately answered by many of the first 1,207 posts in this thread. (The answer is "yes".)

 

[qlaval]

...Third Marriott voted their shares, they never had before, and therefore stacked the board, Frank would have been out!!!...

Wait to see Frank next newsletter...

I would like to thank all the owners for reelecting me one more time....bla bla

 

[ecwinch]

That question is more than adequately answered by many of the first 1,207 posts in this thread. (The answer is "yes".)

Dave,

I have a lot of respect for your opinion. But in doing a quick scan of the first 7 pages, I do not see those constructive suggestions from Marksue that you seem to indicate. Maybe I am glossing over something.

I am speaking about specific tangible suggestions on what the BOD can do to address his concerns. Beside resign or pursue a lawsuit.

Very early on the rhetoric becomes - let's get rid of the BOD. I do not see specific suggestions like - "provide us with a weekly update on the hurricane repair" - "provide us the detailed information on budget from the assessment" . IMHO the BOD has been very responsive to his requests.

You may view it differently, and I respect that.

 

[marksue]

What could the current BOD do to be more transparent? What would be your plan if you were elected to the BOD?

If I was on the board and we collected too much money, I would let all owners know what occured and would have reduced the first assesment by the amount we were over.

As for not having all the info on the building, just tell us you are still waiting for all the examinations of the building to be completed and make public all the reports already in possesion. As I stated many pages back, I have seen the Marriott engineering report and it does point to exposure to the elements as being a cause for many of the building problems.

 

[lovearuba]

.

I appreciate the report - just wish we had more balanced report of the events.

Hi Eric, I dont think you could be any less bias than Mark. Have you taken Allan up on his offer to feel free to offer him constructive feedback?.
When this whole thing started, he suggested we work with the board and we tried we wrote to them and asked for answers. We asked for transparency and still do.

 

[modoaruba]

MVCI is just matching you tic for tac. by ecwinch


This is just one example of you stating WHAT and WHY MVCI is doing.
How can you substantiate what MVCI is thinking without them being transparant to YOU.
Either you have psychic abilities or you may be part of them??
By making the statements you make, you cannot base it on fact due to the lack of transparancy. Which in turn now cycles this whole discussion.

Let's stick to the facts and not decide what one party is thought to be thinking.

 

[ecwinch]

MVCI is just matching you tic for tac. by ecwinch


This is just one example of you stating WHAT and WHY MVCI is doing.
How can you substantiate what MVCI is thinking without them being transparant to YOU.
Either you have psychic abilities or you may be part of them??
By making the statements you make, you cannot base it on fact due to the lack of transparancy. Which in turn now cycles this whole discussion.

Let's stick to the facts and not decide what one party is thought to be thinking.

Based on the facts to date it is my opinion that MVCI is simply matching you tic for tac.

Those facts are:
1) They never have used their vote in the past to influence the election, now they have done so.
2) They invoked parliamentary procedures, to ensure that discussion was relative to the business before the Board.
3) They enforced the parliamentary procedure by bringing in a parliamentarian.

The logic is:
1) When someone is attacked, they use the means within their power to defend themselves from further attack (flee, fight back, etc.)

There - is that better?

And to set the record straight - I do not claim to have inside information or physic abilities. I have applied logic and reason to the facts to reach a conclusion. Obviously that is my opinion, but it supported by logic and reason.

 

[ecwinch]

What could the current BOD do to be more transparent? What would be your plan if you were elected to the BOD?

If I was on the board and we collected too much money, I would let all owners know what occured and would have reduced the first assesment by the amount we were over.

As for not having all the info on the building, just tell us you are still waiting for all the examinations of the building to be completed and make public all the reports already in possesion. As I stated many pages back, I have seen the Marriott engineering report and it does point to exposure to the elements as being a cause for many of the building problems.

Thanks for making some constructive suggestions on what the BOD can do better.

Have you sent a formal written request to the BOD for a copy of the report? If so, what was their response? (Apologize if you have already stated this. Thread is too long to go back to every post.)

 

[ecwinch]

Hi Eric, I dont think you could be any less bias than Mark. Have you taken Allan up on his offer to feel free to offer him constructive feedback?.
When this whole thing started, he suggested we work with the board and we tried we wrote to them and asked for answers. We asked for transparency and still do.

No, I have not. Since my non-owner status automatically discounts my viewpoint, I do not feel the suggestions would be worthwhile.

I prefer to have those discussions here on TUG, where the ideas can be refined by the collective wisdom of the group.

And we will just have to disagree on the bias issue. We might have different standards in that regard.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Simplicity In Divergence Of Opinions.

And we will just have to disagree on the bias issue.

Shux, you don't even have to agree to disagree.

If you want, you can just plain disagree without bothering to reach any kind of meeting of minds beforehand about agreeing or not agreeing or anything like that.

Might just as well keep it simple, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Luckybee]

No, I have not. Since my non-owner status automatically discounts my viewpoint, I do not feel the suggestions would be worthwhile. I prefer to have those discussions here on TUG, where the ideas can be refined by the collective wisdom of the group.

And we will just have to disagree on the bias issue. We might have different standards in that regard.

Funny how when the opinion of non owners is suggested to be not as relevant those non owners jump up in protest but when questioned as to why they dont wish to contribute they shy away.Easier to just sit here and stir the pot i guess

 

[ecwinch]

Funny how when the opinion of non owners is suggested to be not as relevant those non owners jump up in protest but when questioned as to why they dont wish to contribute they shy away.Easier to just sit here and stir the pot i guess

I think everyone knows I was being sarcastic. If not, then let me state it for the record and I will edit my post to reflect that.

If I am stirring the pot by suggesting that the discussion occur in public, so be it.

Just for the record I have offered numerous suggestions in this forum. I have also made similar suggestions to Marksue by e-mail. I have offered to contribute $ to the legal fund. Where others have made unfounded attacks against the "crusade", I have countered those attacks.

It is disingenuous to suggest I am only here to "stir the pot". Check out some of my other posts in threads regarding owner advocacy issues before you go there.

 

[marksue]

]

Thanks for making some constructive suggestions on what the BOD can do better.

Have you sent a formal written request to the BOD for a copy of the report? If so, what was their response? (Apologize if you have already stated this. Thread is too long to go back to every post.)

Yes on numerous occasions and no response. I did receive the Marriott engineers report from another owner, and no it was Allan, and i typed in some of what was stated in that report. Paraphrasing, the water damage and rusted beams was due to the exposure to the over exposure to the elements.

I know for a fact Allan has asked numerous times for the mold inspectors report, the Ocean Club engineering report and he was not given it either.

 

[marksue]

Just for the record I have offered numerous suggestions in this forum. I have also made similar suggestions to Marksue by e-mail. I have offered to contribute $ to the legal fund. QUOTE]

Eric I apppreciate your offer to the legal fund, but our attorney in Aruba is taking the case on a contingency basis. I will let you know what the US attorney has to say.

I never wanted to go in this direction, aside from my initial post which was said more out of anger, so before the other Eric decides to go after me on that. All along we have tried to get through this without legal intervention, but we are now past that.

I still would like to resolve this without attorneys but it is up to the BOD, MVCI and Marriott to make that happen. I have reached out to them with no response.

 

[ecwinch]

By-Laws

This case is difficult since there is no easy on-line resource for Aruba codes or statutes in English. The only ones I have found have been in Dutch.

I really would like to see a copy of the by-laws. If anyone has a copy, please forward one to me. PM me for my address.

Typically I would expect to see a provision in by-laws regarding members access to records. While access to the members list will usually be rebuffed on privacy act concerns, those same arguments are negated regarding the records of the association (in most cases).

 

[lovearuba]

This case is difficult since there is no easy on-line resource for Aruba codes or statutes in English. The only ones I have found have been in Dutch.

I really would like to see a copy of the by-laws. If anyone has a copy, please forward one to me. PM me for my address.

Are you asking for the by laws for the ocean club owners that was provided when we bought it. If you want that pm me your email address and I will scan it and send it to you.

 

[lovearuba]

Are you asking for the by laws for the ocean club owners that was provided when we bought it. If you want that pm me your email address and I will scan it and send it to you.

sorry, guys. I looked at the bylaws, its a book with really small font and too many pages to scan. If you want a specific section let me know and I'll see what it would take to scan it.