Maintenance Fee Liability

[timeos2]

The estate needs to handle things.

The deeded properties stay with the estate until they are reassigned. That can be through the benficiaries accepting them and changing the deed, by sale to a third party or by deed back to the resort if they accept that. Until it is settled by someone accepting that deed things are handeled by the estate paying the fees. That remains the responsibilty of the executor and until the status of that property is properly handled the final settlement of the estate cannot be done. Not to say it doesn't happen that an estate misses a timeshare deed or just doesn't handle it correctly but the property doesn't simply "go away" - someone has to make sure it is properly reassigned. It is not the resort/Associations' problem to handle unless it goes unpaid and eventually moves into foreclosure. If handled correctly back in the estate settlement it never goes that far and everyone is satisfied. If no one in the family wants it the executor needs to sell it or get an agreement to accept it back or else they haven't done their job.

 

[Gadabout]

The deeded properties stay with the estate until they are reassigned. That can be through the benficiaries accepting them and changing the deed, by sale to a third party or by deed back to the resort if they accept that. Until it is settled by someone accepting that deed things are handeled by the estate paying the fees. That remains the responsibilty of the executor and until the status of that property is properly handled the final settlement of the estate cannot be done. Not to say it doesn't happen that an estate misses a timeshare deed or just doesn't handle it correctly but the property doesn't simply "go away" - someone has to make sure it is properly reassigned. It is not the resort/Associations' problem to handle unless it goes unpaid and eventually moves into foreclosure. If handled correctly back in the estate settlement it never goes that far and everyone is satisfied. If no one in the family wants it the executor needs to sell it or get an agreement to accept it back or else they haven't done their job.

But if the TS is the only leftover in an estate, and no one wants it...what happens then, especially if there is no other money left in an estate (revenge from the grave, )? It's just going to stay out there, unresolved, right? Can't go back on the executor?

I just can't see where a TS developer or HOA would let something go for more than say 3 years and not just foreclose or avoid the hassle/expense and just accept a deed in lieu of forclosure, then resell, when they know they are not going to get paid.... But then again, I do not understand why more TS have not gone the way of Thousand Trails into more of a membership-type thing that you can cancel out of after x number of years if you so desire.

 

[timeos2]

Think of the old "Job isn't done until paperwork complete"

But if the TS is the only leftover in an estate, and no one wants it...what happens then, especially if there is no other money left in an estate (revenge from the grave, )? It's just going to stay out there, unresolved, right? Can't go back on the executor?

I just can't see where a TS developer or HOA would let something go for more than say 3 years and not just foreclose or avoid the hassle/expense and just accept a deed in lieu of forclosure, then resell, when they know they are not going to get paid.... But then again, I do not understand why more TS have not gone the way of Thousand Trails into more of a membership-type thing that you can cancel out of after x number of years if you so desire.

Technically the estate cannot be fully disbursed and the the probate ended until all the assets are accounted for. If the executor hasn't found a "home" for the timeshare then the job isn't finished. Sell it for $1 on eBay - give it away to someone in the office - all they need is someone to accept the deed. I agree that a sharp Association should accept the week back rather than risk letting it go bad but it can't be forced as they aren't obligated to do so. And they should certainly demand that the estate (or current owner) bring the fees current before they accept it back. I don't believe in letting people out of their obligations but I do think that common sense and the best interests of all should carry the day.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Settling Unpaid Back-Fee Claims Against Estates.

And they should certainly demand that the estate (or current owner) bring the fees current before they accept it back. I don't believe in letting people out of their obligations but I do think that common sense and the best interests of all should carry the day.

In considering whether to take a timeshare deed back in lieu of foreclosure, does the common sense & best interests standard allow room for the HOA to settle back-fee claims for less than par? Or would an HOA typically be bound & determined to collect 100 cents on the dollar for all unpaid back fees & assessments?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[KenK]

Someone scared him away

But don't fret.....I guess they don't feel guilty. Poor craigs list uninformed:

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/rfs/193041642.html

 

[AwayWeGo]

Whoa! Is There An Echo In Here?

But don't fret.....I guess they don't feel guilty. Poor craigs list uninformed:

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/rfs/193041642.html

Hey, that Craig's List scare language sounds mighty familiar -- just as though I've read those exact words somewhere else recently.

Seriously, how bad would you feel if you got arm-twisted by sales weasels into paying $20,000 or so, full freight, for a timeshare somewhere, then after a few years you also got stampeded into paying even more of your good green money to have that same timeshare taken off your hands for the valuable service of getting you out from under your eternal obligation to pay those hideous, horrible, awful, ruinous, ever-rising, everlasting timeshare annual maintenance fees?

I suspect that The Wisdom Of TUG is for the folks who want it rather than for the folks out there who really, really need it.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[timeos2]

Room to make adjustments

In considering whether to take a timeshare deed back in lieu of foreclosure, does the common sense & best interests standard allow room for the HOA to settle back-fee claims for less than par? Or would an HOA typically be bound & determined to collect 100 cents on the dollar for all unpaid back fees & assessments?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

By law the Association has to collect every dollar due. That will always be the goal and it should be. But a third party - management, legal council, collection agency - can and may decide to "offset" some fees due with "savings" obtained by not having to spend the time and money to foreclose. For example if there is a known resale value to the week the owner may get some credit for that to offset fees due. But as a policy it has to be every dollar due prior to sale or transfer to any new owner including the Association.

 

[ctyatty]

But if the TS is the only leftover in an estate, and no one wants it...what happens then, especially if there is no other money left in an estate (revenge from the grave, )? QUOTE

Most states have a probate provision to abandon such property where the costs of administration exceed the value, in which event the HOA eventually proceeds against the property (called an in rem proceeding) otherwise the timeshare just sits there titled in a dead person's name. This is why I advocate all TS being placed in a corporation, LLC or trust. Then you let the owner go defunct and tell the HOA to go pound sand.

 

[timeos2]

But if the TS is the only leftover in an estate, and no one wants it...what happens then, especially if there is no other money left in an estate (revenge from the grave, )? QUOTE

Most states have a probate provision to abandon such property where the costs of administration exceed the value, in which event the HOA eventually proceeds against the property (called an in rem proceeding) otherwise the timeshare just sits there titled in a dead person's name. This is why I advocate all TS being placed in a corporation, LLC or trust. Then you let the owner go defunct and tell the HOA to go pound sand.

Yup. Thats the right way to handle a commitment. Let the "other" owners handle it. If I knew that was how I felt about my resorts and the other owners I would have no business buying a timeshare. Just rent what I want and don't hurt those who want a nice resort and know that things cost money. Like Pogo famously said "We have seen the enemy and it is us" never was more appropriate.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Never Send To Know For Whom The Sand Pounds; It Pounds For Thee.

Then you let the owner go defunct and tell the HOA to go pound sand.

For some reason, this reminds me of the guy who went to a lawyer because his father had died recently, without a will, & the guy was concerned about how he & his brother were going to divvy up the father's estate.

The lawyer said, "I'm sure we can work out a fair settlement with your brother."

The guy said, "Shucks, if I wanted a settlement that's fair I wouldn't need to go out & hire a lawyer."

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Gadabout]

Yup. Thats the right way to handle a commitment. Let the "other" owners handle it. If I knew that was how I felt about my resorts and the other owners I would have no business buying a timeshare. Just rent what I want and don't hurt those who want a nice resort and know that things cost money. Like Pogo famously said "We have seen the enemy and it is us" never was more appropriate.

The first paragraph in the quote was mine, but not the second about the LLC--guess it just showed up funny in the post.

The point I was trying to make was that say, by year 2 you're ready to just give the TS away. You should be able to just give it to the resort, in lieu of forclosure, just like you do with homes and other real estate. Any *quality* TS would turn around very quickly with no real *loss* to anyone. But what I keep reading here and on other threads is that it sounds like the TS companies/HOAs would be just happy to let fees pile up over 20 years, which is just dumb, and further underscores the fact that many TS aren't even worth resale prices.

 

[talkamotta]

When I first started my travels down the timeshare road, I was so excited about the cheap timeshares on Ebay. Bought one on Myrtle Beach. Went there once. Most of the people were owners. Saw it, stayed in it, and probably wont go back. But that doesnt mean I wont pay my fees. I now trade it. I think the people who dont pay thier maintenance fees are :ignore: and it makes me :annoyed:

Who do you think has to pick up these costs. Other owners. Or the resort just wont do the maintenance. Which hurts the other owners worst. If someone's situation changes. Give it away. Donate it. But while its still in your name PAY THE FEES. BE RESPONSIBLE.

 

[Hoc]

This is why I advocate all TS being placed in a corporation, LLC or trust. Then you let the owner go defunct and tell the HOA to go pound sand.

There are a couple of problems with that approach. First, you're adding your $800 annual corporate franchise fee to your annual maintenance fees (or, in the case of an LLC, whatever the annual fee is there). Second, if you own multiple timeshares and put all of your timeshares into a single entity, you can't give up one without giving up all. If you decide to give up one, and simply transfer the title of all the rest out of the entity, then whoever the new owner is can be subject to a fraudulent transfer lawsuit to recover the value of the transferred timeshares.

So, putting a timeshare into an insulated entity really does not seem to be very cost efficient, nor very smart.

 

[timeos2]

The point I was trying to make was that say, by year 2 you're ready to just give the TS away. You should be able to just give it to the resort, in lieu of forclosure, just like you do with homes and other real estate. Any *quality* TS would turn around very quickly with no real *loss* to anyone. But what I keep reading here and on other threads is that it sounds like the TS companies/HOAs would be just happy to let fees pile up over 20 years, which is just dumb, and further underscores the fact that many TS aren't even worth resale prices.

You cannot just "give away" a home or any other real estate at will. You need to find someone willing to accept the responsibility even if they take it for free. Same with a timeshare. It's what you agree to when you buy or accept a deed.

Of course no sensible timeshare Association should purposely let the fees pile up but just walking away leaves them having to undertake expensive foreclosure. If an owner doesn't want it anymore and the resort won't accept it back use another method to get ownership changed. Just ignoring it is never the right way to handle it.

 

[ctyatty]

Good Advice: put each TS in a separate Corp, trust or LLC

"First, you're adding your $800 annual corporate franchise fee to your annual maintenance fees (or, in the case of an LLC, whatever the annual fee is there)."

How about more like $35 every other year. In the case of a trust there are no annual fees. Just file a tax return with all zeros.

I put each TS in a separate entity, but really your idea that someone is going to sue in an expensive court action for a fraudulent transfer is a bit of a stretch - sounds to me like you are involved with a HOA or a management company and don't want people to protect themselves just like big business does.

 

[Hoc]

sounds to me like you are involved with a HOA or a management company and don't want people to protect themselves just like big business does.

:hysterical:

 

[JLB]

I realize you are telling a joke, so I'll laugh, because I have a brother and also was the one most involved in settling both of our parents' estates recently.

Just so someone doesn't think you can go to a lawyer and work things out the way you want if your parent dies intestate, most, if not all, states have laws that determine how that estate will be handled.

To find how it is handled in your state, just google intestate distribution in _______ .

You can learn about issue and stepchildren, too.

For some reason, this reminds me of the guy who went to a lawyer because his father had died recently, without a will, & the guy was concerned about how he & his brother were going to divvy up the father's estate.

The lawyer said, "I'm sure we can work out a fair settlement with your brother."

The guy said, "Shucks, if I wanted a settlement that's fair I wouldn't need to go out & hire a lawyer."

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​