Maintenance Fee Liability

[Gadabout]

I don't want to lessen my caution, but I do wonder just how much of a ding in your credit a default on a timeshare would be. I have never said anyone say, I couldn't but a new car/house/anything because of that timeshare problem I had.

It would be nice to hear from someone whose life got screwed up because they walked out on a timeshare obligation, just so we'd know that our warnings are meaningful. Even just to hear from someone who had it put on their credit report would be nice.

I wonder the same thing. If the TV commercials I see are any indication, getting credit after bankruptcy and so forth is *not* difficult. As to whether walking away from a TS if everything else in your credit report is squeaky clean will mean you still won't get that job, or your auto insurance will go up, I don't know. It really depends upon who is scrutinizing your credit report, and what *they* are looking for. TS has such a bad reputation that I bet most landlords and such would ignore a TS ding on a credit report as soon as you mentioned the concept and why you walked (provided everything else was good, of course).

 

[mshatty]

Speaking of bankrutpcy and timeshares. Often an owner files a bankruptcy and one of the happy days is that the timeshare is now someone else's problem. HOWEVER, it the bankruptcy trustee determines the timeshare has no equity or is burdensome to administer, the trustee will abandon the timeshare back to the owner! Ooops, thought it was gone. The owner continues to be liable for the MF's after the bankruptcy until the TS is sold.

 

[JimJ]

I was told by an experienced, and I think reliable, timeshare reseller that .... .

A timeshare salesman with moving lips. We all know what that likely indicates.

 

[bugzapper]

Something I've never figured out--why are MFs so high at most resorts? If you bought from a developer, it's as if you are paying for your vacation twice--the initial cost for the week and then again in MFs. (You pay three times for all-inclusive resorts!) I've studied HOA budgets online and I can't really justify MFs more than about $400, maybe $500 tops. Yet I see resorts with MFs over $1000! Multiply this amount times 50 and thats $50,000 per unit per year! That's $4 million for an 80 unit resort!

It makes me wonder where this money really goes, and how much of this amount must be going to lawyers trying to collect unpaid MFs from unhappy owners. Anyway, maybe I'll understand all of this after I've actually stayed at a timeshare resort...

The other engineers I work with (we analyze everything to death) think I'm crazy for even contemplating buying a timeshare. It just doesn't make sense to any of them. Not only do you have constantly rising MFs, but you have the persistant threat of extra assessments. They figure the liability is not worth the benefit.

I guess the main reason I'm contemplating buying is due to testimonials of satisfied tuggers...now, if I could only get my wife on board.

 

[Dollie]

A possible way around the yearly maintenance fee

Our timeshare has what they call a Use Right Purchase Program (URPP) which

"allows owners to relinquish the use of their 2006-week in exchange for the 2006 maintenance fee".​

You apply to be part of the URPP but there are conditions on this program:

the resort "has a limited need for additional intervals. Therefore, you will be notified no later than July 31, 2006 if you have been selected (or not selected) to participate in this program. If you are selected, your 2006 annual maintenance fee will be paid by" the resort "when it is due."​

Using this option would mean you would not have to pay the MF for the year you relinquish your week (no money out of your pocket, no hassle of renting your week).

You would have to investigate to see if your TS supports such a policy. Ours only supports it on a yearly basis, meaning one year or more it might decide not to have the buy-out of the MF.

 

[getoutofyourtimeshare]

A huge liability

...........

 

[timeos2]

Why bother with vacation when your timeshare can do it

Our timeshare has what they call a Use Right Purchase Program (URPP) which nce fee will be paid by" the resort "when it is due."[/INDENT]
Using this option would mean you would not have to pay the MF for the year you relinquish your week (no money out of your pocket, no hassle of renting your week).

While I suppose this does have a value to someone that owns but cannot use a week at a resort it really becomes comical when you think it through. There are similar offers to "pay your fees with points" in some points based systems. How backwards is it to pay unfront money to buy a timeshare and take on the committment to pay the annual fees and any other charges only to "rent" it for the annual fee owed? No troublesome vacation to take? Wow, what a deal!

Done correctly the owner could have simply paid to have the deed placed in their name and then sat back and waited to see if the fees were covered or if they owe something each year. Thats what timesharing should be all about. Maybe they want to buy some more since it only costs the unfront money then after that forget about it.

Sorry, makes no sense to me.

 

[gmarine]

Maybe it wont be long before there is a lawsuit against his company if he accepts any money based on the lies he is spewing out.

A lien against your home for unpaid m-fees. LOL.

He obviously no almost nothing about the timeshare industry and resort contracts. Either that or he is just another scam artist who is hoping uninformed people will give him $$.

 

[getoutofyourtimeshare]

did you read your trust agreement?

...........

 

[timeos2]

They can make sense and they do cost to operate

Something I've never figured out--why are MFs so high at most resorts? If you bought from a developer, it's as if you are paying for your vacation twice--the initial cost for the week and then again in MFs. (You pay three times for all-inclusive resorts!) I've studied HOA budgets online and I can't really justify MFs more than about $400, maybe $500 tops. Yet I see resorts with MFs over $1000! Multiply this amount times 50 and thats $50,000 per unit per year! That's $4 million for an 80 unit resort!

It makes me wonder where this money really goes, and how much of this amount must be going to lawyers trying to collect unpaid MFs from unhappy owners. Anyway, maybe I'll understand all of this after I've actually stayed at a timeshare resort...

If the operation of a timeshare was simply the same as a condo your thoughts would hold true. For $300-$400 per week or $20,000 / year anyone should be able to pay the taxes, utilities and common fees for a whole condo. But is that including all furninshings, consumables like soap, shampoo, dish and clothes washer soaps, towels, linens, etc found in most timeshares? Does it include a weekly full cleaning including a full kitchen (or two in some lockoff unuts)? How about a 24 hour front desk? Full maintenance staff, housekeeping, office personnel? Take a look at those budgets - usually close to half goes for personnel and utilities.

Remember too that the purchase cost is paid to the developer not the Association that ends up running the resort for the owners. That pays the builder back for the construction costs and a profit. Any ongoing expenses and repairs/upgrades comes out of the owners pockets after the sale.

The reserves required to properly maintain and upgrade a resort are staggering. Just as an example at a 168 unit resort I'm very familar with the cost to renovate the units as promised by the developer at the sales table but paid by the owners is over $5 million dollars per renovation or about $100/per week per year if collected over the 7 years of useful life. But what about the roofs? The building painting? The driveways? Pool(s)? The list goes on. All of those have to be repaired or replaced over time. Our roofs are costing us $3.5 million to replace. And they didn't get the useful life anticipated so the bill is due far sooner than planned.

So before you look at any timeshare realize that the purchase price is the least of the expense in the long run. You are buying the right to occupy a week at a resort AND to pay the fees to operate that resort annually. Thats yet another reason why buying a retail timeshare week makes little or no sense. The units are the same, the annual costs are the same and the ownership rights are the same if you buy resale so why pay twice to 10 times more for retail? Timeshares can be a great value but calling them "prepaid" vacations is not one of the true benefits.

The other engineers I work with (we analyze everything to death) think I'm crazy for even contemplating buying a timeshare. It just doesn't make sense to any of them. Not only do you have constantly rising MFs, but you have the persistant threat of extra assessments. They figure the liability is not worth the benefit.

I guess the main reason I'm contemplating buying is due to testimonials of satisfied tuggers...now, if I could only get my wife on board.

Now why do we own 7 if there is all that possible downside? Because we bought where we want to return each year (buying to use not trade) OR into points based systems that are set up to allow easy visits to different areas as we desire. We bought them all at resale pricing and now feel we "have" to travel to take advantage of our ownerships. It has been and continues to be a great bargain to stay in 2, 3 or even 4 bedroom, often luxury condos at prime locations all around the country for the cost of our annual fees. We also get to return to our "summer home" on Cape Cod and our FL home each year. It's like we own second homes all around the country for the cost of a weeks annual fee.

Owning and enjoying timeshares is almost addicting done in a way you enjoy. If you take advantage of the depresed values on resale the rest can be gravy even with a special assessment or two on occasion.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Contract, Shmontract.

Your contract is forever (perpetuity), you can’t
terminate the agreement.

This could be just a tiny quibble over terminology, or it could be a fundamental difference betwen how things are & how Mr. GetOutOfYourTimeShare represents that they are -- that is to say, I don't have any timeshare contracts, only timeshare deeds. As long as I own'm, I'm obligated to pay the mandatory fees & assessments, in exchange for which I get to take my resort weeks for use, for exchange, or for renting out. No contracts involved. When I'm through with my timeshares, I sell'm to somebody else (as I've already done, once, for the same price I paid when I bought it resale). Still no contracts involved. Case closed.

Maintenance Fees increase every year.

Not necessarily -- not in my experience, anyhow. And, shucks, I don't even have all that much timeshare experience compared to plenty of other folks on TUG.

Your children will inherit your timeshare, and all
fees and expenses. (Heirs, successors and assigns)

Absolutely. But that's a good thing, not a bad thing (i.e., that's a feature, not a bug). Shucks, some of my heirs & assigns are already on my timeshare deeds right now, JTWROS. So the point Mr. GetOutOfYourTimeShare is trying to make is....?

You'll get to a point when you'll be willing to pay someone to get this horrible contract out of your family’s future forever.

I don't think so. It's not horrible, it's not forever, & it's not even a contract. It's part of our family's future only so long as we or our heirs & assigns own it.

In the past I have wondered where some of the eBay timeshare resellers get hold of deeds to valuable timeshare weeks for next to nothing. Shucks, I bought a bargain eBay timeshare myself which I later discovered (via the county registrar's on-line records-search service) that the eBay reseller acquired for $100. Now I'm wondering whether what's going on is that there are folks out there using scare language about being people being unable to get out from under their obligations to pay those horrible, ever-rising, everlasting timeshare fees as a way of panicking vulnerable folks into giving their timeshares away or selling'm for next to nothing, or -- worse -- paying somebody to take'm off their hands.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Gadabout]

Edited to remove language that made this post appear as an ad

Before FIRST, we request those posting here to follow the NO AD RULES listed when you clicked the OK button to post on TUG. This prevents those seeking non-biased information to recievbe as such. You haven't seen any other ads here?....if so...let an administrator or moderator know.

Addtionally, most tuggers are well aware of the useful information you have provided.

Welcome to TUG.

This is the modified post: (It pretains to many T/S purchases...not excluding points in all situations....and remember, a HOA may have a timelime to change the T/S form of usage to another)

First, here are some things you should know about the industry, and your contract:

Your contract is forever (perpetuity), you can’t
terminate the agreement.

Maintenance Fees increase every year.

Your children will inherit your timeshare, and all
fees and expenses. (Heirs, successors and assigns)

Unpaid maintenance fees and assessments will become a
mechanics lien on your home.

Most developers won’t take back your timeshare.

Most developers rent out your timeshare
and keep the revenue.

Your contract allows them to do this.

Your contract is subject to change at any time.



The Exchange companies.

RCI currently has 2 class action lawsuits filed in
NJ. They are accused of renting out your
timeshare keeping the revenue and denying you access.

RCI can change the contract at their sole discretion.
(Page 3 of your disclosure guide)

Almost all trust agreements have similar language.

Why do you pay upfront to list a timeshare? Because
it won’t sell, and listing companies want to be paid.

Don't pay for a "market analysis" or "appraisal", it's
a waste of your money. It won’t sell.

Go to www.ebay.com and search for timeshares, you'll see 1000 for $1.00.....and almost all with no bids.

If you didn't know any of this yet, sorry to ruin your day.

You'll get to a point when you'll be willing to pay someone to get this horrible contract out of your family’s future forever.

Heirs can always refuse (disclaim) an inheritance (bequest). Done all the time. If they choose to accept the bequest, they would probably be bound by the contract, but they still have to claim the TS first.

Mechanic's liens are typically for work done on (for example) your home, work that can't be easily repossessed (like plumbing, roofing, etc.), unlike, say, your car. A lien can keep you from selling or transferring a particular property, but I have never heard of it transferring from one property to another.

 

[getoutofyourtimeshare]

...........

 

[rickandcindy23]

You are Vacation Solutions or Timeshare Relief and any of a number of other aliases that are still the same people, always LLC at the end of the business name.

You are not the authority on timeshares. Many resorts WILL take back your timeshare if you quit claim it back. Many owners at one of my resorts have had you take their timeshares. They had to pay many months of maintenance fees to you to get rid of their weeks. But our resort would have taken it back for nothing.

PAHIO @ Bali Hai is one Hawaii timeshare that your people sell on ebay. PAHIO properties are valuable and those poor people should not pay maintenance fees for years and years to give you their timeshare.

Sell your company on a forum that is not full of people who love timesharing.

 

[e.bram]

getoutofyourtimeshare seems to be making up the law as he goes along. The only contract ina real estate transactionis between the buyer and the seller and does not involve the HOA or any other third party. The only signiture on the deed is the seller(grantee) and does not bind the buyer to the HOA or anyone else. If you as an owner don't pay real estate tax, the municipality and only take the property and can't hold you responsible for any more money. If you want to dump you TSes form a corporation or LLC, deed all the TSes to it and let it go bankrupt. Since it's a corporation or LLC, they can't hold the shareholders liable your home free.

 

[getoutofyourtimeshare]

...........

 

[topcop400]

Thank you Cindy.

He shouldn't be trolling for business here.

 

[gmarine]

This guy is a typical scam artist with false information.

Mechanics lien. LOL.

 

[e.bram]

HOA home owners association(the entity which collects and spends the MF(maintenance fees). Third party is anyone not party the the contract. Maybe someone can explain it clearer.

 

[ctyatty]

my response:

you don't own property, you have a right to use. thats it. a right to use. the only reason they are deeded properties, is so you'll be responsible for the property tax(check with your resort if you don't believe me, you pay property tax, it's in your maintenance fee) which means your heirs HAVE to accept the timeshare. it attaches to the estate of joint and several, which means that anyone that receives anything form your estate will also get the obligation of the timeshare.

The above idea is TOTAL BS - I have practiced law for 22 years and have done lots of probate work: "heirs HAVE to accept" this guy is shoveling scare tactics and should be reported to the consumer protection agency in whatever state where the hole is that he crawled out of.

 

[Htoo0]

They're not all alike. Some are deeded, some are right to use. Some are lifetime and some are for shorter periods. Mine happens to be 99 years RTU. My BIL owns 2 weeks RTU for 40 years. I sure there are other terms. I've known some which can be 'given back' fairly easily while hearing about others that cost the owners plenty. So maybe you're all right.

 

[KenK]

Cindy & all

I doubt that poster is an owner of the companies above. I would bet $$ that those owners are current or past TUG members....and have gleaned plenty of info to run their "company" from info here.

What I think is the poster is (maybe) a new employee of that firm, (or another) and has been taught the one sided, somewhat inaccurate info. This person really believes what they have posted....

Of course, they are not realtors...or would have lost their credentials (and in NJ been sued by the commission)....

Remember the very bright, helpful, MAR realtor salesperson who posted what he knew here....(what he had learned from the developer?). Facts were only accurate in what the developer wanted him to know.....nothing about resale pricing...nothing even about Disney Resale points....and he owned Disney...

So, maybe if the poster 'getout...' starts really reading and lerning, he might surpass those at his company who pushed him here, and actually learn ALL the facts that might be presented at those 'meetings' they invite the unlearned to.

However, passng the full truth is hard when the kids are hungry.

 

[Rent_Share]

Unpaid maintenance fees and assessments will become a
mechanics lien on your home.

Possibly a post judgement lien, a mechanics lien is an involuntary lien, i would like to see the language that encumbers your primary residdence for non payment of a secondary piece of real property without first pledging the primary residence as collateral and it being recorded.

Most developers won’t take back your timeshare.

Most developers rent out your timeshare
and keep the revenue.

Your contract allows them to do this.

Your contract is subject to change at any time.

How much do i have to pay you to take my burden ?

You'll get to a point when you'll be willing to pay someone to get this horrible contract out of your family’s future forever.

Whoops said it too soon

 

[Gadabout]

The only way heirs may get unintentionally stuck with a parent's debts is to pay them out of their own accounts, instead of having say, signature privileges on a parent's account. In other words, you would even be better off paying the extra money for money orders than to pay any debt not your own out of your personal accounts.

As far as liens pertaining to property, they stay with *that* property, period. A good example of this is mandatory water/sewer fees in the city. Many places will not let you turn off the service, even if the property is vacant, because it really is all about revenue generation for the city rather than providing a service per se (sorry for the rant :annoyed: ). Eventually, if the fees go unpaid for a long enough period of time, the city can and will take the property back, but it can't go after any potential heirs, because they were not on the property deed. A TS company wouldn't be able to either, not without actively transferring the property in question, which involves notaries for verifying signatures and such.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Paying For Service Or Paying For (Temporary) Non-Service, Mox Nix.

A good example of this is mandatory water/sewer fees in the city. Many places will not let you turn off the service, even if the property is vacant, because it really is all about revenue generation for the city rather than providing a service per se.

That's 1 reason we sold off our double-wide mobile home vacation residence & switched to a dinky 34-foot non-traveling travel trailer.

Water bill for the double-wide was included in the monthly lot rent, but sewer service came from the county. The fee for temporarily suspending sewer service over the fall-winter periods when we didn't use the double-wide, & plus the fee for re-starting next season, added up to about the same as just keeping the sewer service going over those non-use periods, mox nix.

Adding that to the power bill, the phone bill (even with a lower "away" rate than active rate when we were there), the monthly lot rent, & the cash tied up in the double-wide itself made the whole set-up uneconomic for as little as we used the place as a vacation home. We don't use the dinky 34-footer all that much more than we formerly used the double-wide, but the costs for the dinky rig are so much less that we're OK with it.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​