looking for advice - timeshare purchase (resale mrkt) - paradise LV

[someguy2233]

Hello,

long time stalker (tug forums...), first time poster.

I am looking for some advice on a possible purchase:

I intend to use the points within the Western US and Hawaii. I would most likely never stay at the paradise. We vacation every other year, so I thought I could borrow against the following year (current year 11200 + next year 11200).

The maintenance fees appear reasonable.

BTW - not sure if this matters, but I am currently a HGVMAX 'owner'....

thoughts?

Thank you,
Dusty (someguy2233)

 

[Reddart]

Does the purchase price include the 2024 MF and points?

 

[mjm1]

That sounds like a very good deal.

 

[Heron]

I think it's a decent deal. It will cost another 1000 to 1500 for fees unless closing costs are included. MF isn't bad and always borrowing is a good way to reduce fees.

 

[letsgobobby]

good deal

 

[alwysonvac]

....I intend to use the points within the Western US and Hawaii.

Welcome to TUG
Your HGVC resale week will give you access to HGVC resorts (not Diamond (aka HGV), Embarc (aka HGVC) or Bluegreen resorts).

I would most likely never stay at the paradise. We vacation every other year, so I thought I could borrow against the following year (current year 11200 + next year 11200)...

Your screen capture indicates usage begins in 2025.
If you want to use two years of points, you could make a 2025 reservation using 2025 points + borrowed 2026 points.

BTW - not sure if this matters, but I am currently a HGVMAX 'owner'....

Buckets might be combined initially but HGVC has rolled out system enhancements later.

 

[someguy2233]

Welcome to TUG
Your HGVC resale week will give you access to HGVC resorts (not Diamond (aka HGV), Embarc (aka HGVC) or Bluegreen resorts).


Your screen capture indicates usage begins in 2025.
If you want to use two years of points, you could make a 2025 reservation using 2025 points + borrowed 2026 points.


Buckets might be combined initially but HGVC has rolled out system enhancements later.

What do you mean by 'buckets might be combined initially but HGVC has rolled out system enhancements later'?

 

[someguy2233]

Does the purchase price include the 2024 MF and points?

It does not include the 2024 points, but is supposed to include the 2024 maintenance fees..... But great question. I need to double check with the broker.

 

[HuskerATL]

Welcome to TUG
Your HGVC resale week will give you access to HGVC resorts (not Diamond (aka HGV), Embarc (aka HGVC) or Bluegreen resorts).


Your screen capture indicates usage begins in 2025.
If you want to use two years of points, you could make a 2025 reservation using 2025 points + borrowed 2026 points.


Buckets might be combined initially but HGVC has rolled out system enhancements later.

They will give him access to Diamond though. He is already in Max so these points would just combine with his existing points to use with his others.... assuming that he is HGVC with HGV Max.

 

[HuskerATL]

I assume that you are HGVClub with HGV Max? Remember, HGV Max is just a program, not an ownership. The Club also has HGV Max and so does Embarc.

So, it is important to be specific about the ownership because that will determine use. HGV Max is just extra stuff that sits in top.

 

[GT75]

BTW - not sure if this matters, but I am currently a HGVMAX 'owner'....

Which club are you a member of? HGVC or HVC/DRI? (In general) Another difference is that HGVC is a deeded ownership where you will own a property at a particular resort and HVC/DRI is a trust product where you just own some points in a collection of properties. Very important to know which club you are in.

 

[Reddart]

It does not include the 2024 points, but is supposed to include the 2024 maintenance fees..... But great question. I need to double check with the broker.

If you’re paying the 2024 maintenance fees, you should also get the points.

 

[dayooper]

It does not include the 2024 points, but is supposed to include the 2024 maintenance fees..... But great question. I need to double check with the broker.

Are they saying they are already paid for 2024 or you have to pay them on closing? If it’s the latter, you have to add another $1100 to the cost. If that’s the case, $4600 still isn’t a bad deal, but you might be able to find that with 2024 points.

 

[someguy2233]

Which club are you a member of? HGVC or HVC/DRI? (In general) Another difference is that HGVC is a deeded ownership where you will own a property at a particular resort and HVC/DRI is a trust product where you just own some points in a collection of properties. Very important to know which club you are in.

It was diamond, then converted to HGVMax (but still login though the diamond club link).....

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Great deal if truly 11,200 plat. Check the estoppel to ensure no encumbrances or different season. If I were looking I would jump on this. I owned in Vegas and never stayed where I owned. Got great use out of the week.

For closing check with the seller if there are any brokerage fees beyond the HGVC fees of around $1200 + escrow and how much? Some brokers charge a lot so it may not be as good a deal. They also may not use cheapest escrow ( to compare: LT transfers or TimeshareClosingsForLess charge about $350 to process escrow and paperwork filing.)

Are you HGVC MAX? or HGV Trust MAX? Not sure how MAX would work with this as I my ownership was pre-MAX.

Some MAX owners may want to comment as to whether a resale deed combines with HGVC MAX. It doesn't combine with HGV Trust points AFAIK so you may have 2 separate accounts.

 

[someguy2233]

Are they saying they are already paid for 2024 or you have to pay them on closing? If it’s the latter, you have to add another $1100 to the cost. If that’s the case, $4600 still isn’t a bad deal, but you might be able to find that with 2024 points.

maintenance fees have already been paid for 2024. From the broker, I will be responsible for paying 2025 fees and have points to use in 2025.

 

[brp]

It was diamond, then converted to HGVMax (but still login though the diamond club link).....

To be clear, your Diamond ownership is not "converted to MAX." The ownership is the same, but you are now in the MAX program because of the purchase. You are MAX from the Diamond (HVC) side as opposed to the HGVC side, and that will impact the combining. Others in this situation may have more info. But the side of the house from which one becomes eligible for MAX matters at present.

As you can see, they've striven to make this all very clear

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

It was diamond, then converted to HGVMax (but still login though the diamond club link).....

It is still diamond. There isn't any conversion. The HGV Max program sits in top of your Diamond ownership. You are part of The Club not HGVC. You need to read through the guides in the other TUG forum for Diamond Resorts

 

[GT75]

If you purchased a HGVC deed with HVC trust ownership, you will own in both systems but separate buckets of points for each system.

 

[alwysonvac]

They will give him access to Diamond though. He is already in Max so these points would just combine with his existing points to use with his others.... assuming that he is HGVC with HGV Max.

Historically, HGV has been slow at enforcing some resort/product restrictions/limitations.

Just make sure the HGV Max documentation clearly states that this should be the behavior. If not, we might see a system update later on to close the loophole.

What do you mean by 'buckets might be combined initially but HGVC has rolled out system enhancements later'?

Some updates to restrict/limit online access are not required upon launch of a new resort/product and may be implemented at a later time.

For example: the Hilton Club loophole was a repeating pattern

• When HGV launched Hilton Club New York (HCNY) in 2002, it was marketed to HGVC members as a separate system that required a developer purchase. HGVC Elite members were allowed to use their HGVC points for the first year or so. HGVC members who bought HCNY soon discovered that they could used their combined points (HGVC + HCNY) to reserve rooms at the new Hilton Club New York. Since HGV owned most of the unsold inventory, I guess it didn't matter. However the sales team also stated the loophole as a benefit to help them make the sale. Eventually, HGV updated their online system to create a separate bucket that would only allow HCNY points to be used for Hilton Club New York bookings.
• When HGV opened a Hilton Club resort at West 57th Street in 2009, it was marketed to HGVC members as a HGVC resort however with a longer exclusive booking window for resort owners. Once again they allow new owners to combined points (HGVC + West 57th) to reserve rooms at the new West 57th location and the sales team took advantage telling potential owners that they could use all of their points for NYC stays. Eventually in 2017, they finally updated the online system to only allow West 57th points to be used during the exclusive West 57th booking window.

 

[WORLD TRAVELER]

Historically, HGV has been slow at enforcing some resort/product restrictions/limitations.

Just make sure the HGV Max documentation clearly states that this should be the behavior. If not, we might see a system update later on to close the loophole.



Some updates to restrict/limit online access are not required upon launch of a new resort/product and may be implemented at a later time.

For example: the Hilton Club loophole was a repeating pattern

• When HGV launched Hilton Club New York (HCNY) in 2002, it was marketed to HGVC members as a separate system that required a developer purchase. HGVC Elite members were allowed to use their HGVC points for the first year or so. HGVC members who bought HCNY soon discovered that they could used their combined points (HGVC + HCNY) to reserve rooms at the new Hilton Club New York. Since HGV owned most of the unsold inventory, I guess it didn't matter. However the sales team also stated the loophole as a benefit to help them make the sale. Eventually, HGV updated their online system to create a separate bucket that would only allow HCNY points to be used for Hilton Club New York bookings.
• When HGV opened a Hilton Club resort at West 57th Street in 2009, it was marketed to HGVC members as a HGVC resort however with a longer exclusive booking window for resort owners. Once again they allow new owners to combined points (HGVC + West 57th) to reserve rooms at the new West 57th location and the sales team took advantage telling potential owners that they could use all of their points for NYC stays. Eventually in 2017, they finally updated the online system to only allow West 57th points to be used during the exclusive West 57th booking window.

Your information above correlates exactly to information we received in 2022 from an EVP with HGVC. Long Story Short, the EVP confirmed with us that the additional HGVC week/points we were going to purchase Direct were going to be Walled Off from our existing Resale HGVC Weeks/points and we would not be able to use the combined weeks/points in the new HGVMax Program much like Hilton Club points are Walled Off from normal HGVC points. We would have only been able to use the direct purchased week/points in the HGVMax program. Based on the information received from the EVP in 2022, we decided not to follow through on our purchase of an additional week in HGVC from Sales to be in the new HGVMax program.

 

[brp]

much like Hilton Club points are Walled Off from normal HGVC points.

This may not be a good analogy as, while the bHC and HGVC points are bucketed separately, they can very easily be used in conjunction at any time. For example, an HGVC Club Window booking can use bHC points at 9 months. As well, bHC bookings can use HGVC points within the shorter Club Window. Here, it's just that the bHC resorts have large owner-only windows. But the points are not really separated in terms of use beyond that.

From what you're saying, it sounds like the MAX-eligible and resale points may really be more separate than this in use.

Cheers.

 

[GT75]

it sounds like the MAX-eligible and resale points may really be more separate than this in use.

We haven't heard this. In fact, we have heard that resale will combined with HGVMax (if on the HGVC side, that wouldn't be the case on HVC side)

EVP confirmed with us that the additional HGVC week/points we were going to purchase Direct were going to be Walled Off from our existing Resale HGVC Weeks/points

What is EVP? I am not sure that what you were told is true but first need to understand what you were told.

 

[brp]

We haven't heard this. In fact, we have heard that resale will combined with HGVMax (if on the HGVC side, that wouldn't be the case on HVC side)


What is EVP? I am not sure that what you were told is true but first need to understand what you were told.

Yes, we have not heard this, except from that post. I was just interpreting what I read in that post as compared to bHC/HGVC.

EVP is Executive Vice President. Usually a higher-level VP.

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

Your information above correlates exactly to information we received in 2022 from an EVP with HGVC. Long Story Short, the EVP confirmed with us that the additional HGVC week/points we were going to purchase Direct were going to be Walled Off from our existing Resale HGVC Weeks/points and we would not be able to use the combined weeks/points in the new HGVMax Program much like Hilton Club points are Walled Off from normal HGVC points. We would have only been able to use the direct purchased week/points in the HGVMax program. Based on the information received from the EVP in 2022, we decided not to follow through on our purchase of an additional week in HGVC from Sales to be in the new HGVMax program.

Which we know from many examples, this isn't true. All HGVC points combine, whether retail and resale and if you are in Max, all those points are usable in Max. The resale points just won't raise your Max Tier level though. In essence, Max works just like Elite does.