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Lies currently being told by Marriott sales staff

C

Cewood

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
41
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17
I am at Surf Watch in Hilton Head Island and have attended a sales presentation. Our first in a few years. We are Chairman’s level in MVC. It is incredible to me that the sales staff cannot seem to stick to the truth. Our salesman stated that resale points in the MVC system, if bought on the after market, would never count towards status in the MVC system, regardless of whether one pays the repatriation fees or not. As I read the rules, I think that this is simply a lie, but if I am wrong, please respond and let me know.
 
100% a lie- and a very common one that salesmen tell.
 
Cewood said:
I am at Surf Watch in Hilton Head Island and have attended a sales presentation. Our first in a few years. We are Chairman’s level in MVC. It is incredible to me that the sales staff cannot seem to stick to the truth. Our salesman stated that resale points in the MVC system, if bought on the after market, would never count towards status in the MVC system, regardless of whether one pays the repatriation fees or not. As I read the rules, I think that this is simply a lie, but if I am wrong, please respond and let me know.
Click to expand...
There are people on these forums who purchased MVC points resale, paid the junk fee, and have those points count toward their status. So, demonstrably false.
 
I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?
 
wballoni said:
I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?
Click to expand...

Not really no. If you have ever been to any timeshare presentation from any company you have been lied to. I love my timeshares but I've never purchased from a lying salesman.
 
wballoni said:
I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?
Click to expand...
It bothers me more that the industry has changed in ways that make them tell more lies.

When I bought my first timeshares, the DVC salesrep didn't lie about anything. They even acknowledged that resale existed and that one of the reasons why it was great to buy DVC was that DVC held its value. And they price they offered after incentives was comparable to resale prices at the time. Since then DVC has changed its business model to only sell to the uninformed.

Then I attended an HGVC presentation and really the only lie the salesperson told was the price. When I went back to our room and saw that (unlike DVC) I could buy into HGVC for dimes on the dollar I did so. And this more or less held true until the Diamond acquisition - since then the lies they have been telling to sell MAX have been extraordinary.

Aside from price, the only 'lie' that the first MVC salesrep I encountered told me was that he gave the impression that it was easy to trade Waiohai into anywhere in the world. And that I had to buy two weeks AT Waiohai in order to book there at 13 months (though how much of a lie that was has long been the subject of debate). But when MVC introduced the point system (and didn't allow enrolled weeks to be resold as enrolled) lies became essential in order to move inventory.
 
wballoni said:
I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?
Click to expand...
They all do it. The worst offender is not Marriott. Many of the Marriott salespeople are honest. We had a very honest guy at Willow Ridge in Branson years ago. Then we had a lying salesperson at Grande Vista, and it was such a sleazy experience. I need to have enough guts to call these morons liars to their faces, but I don't. I try to be polite, but I do ask them to repeat the lie, so they know I know they are lying.
 
Just got out of a presentation at MGO. We own two legacy weeks and they pushed hard that weeks are very hard to use, book, trade, and the points are super easy and you can get what you want 96% of the time. Then, when I mentioned doing an amnesty program and enrolling the weeks, I was told the enrolled points are not the same as the real points and it would be harder to book than buying real points. That is, until the closer came in with the offer and express how the enrolled points and the new points are the same and can be combined for status and for booking. The first lady was frustrating enough that it eliminated any desire we had to purchase.
 
Sounds like the closer was honest.
 
I wouldn't say I was outright lied to at the MVC presentation I attended but it wasn't fully explained that some of the features are only available at higher tiers. Also, they made it sound like I could book Harborside directly (it's included on their map) and in a different present when I asked, they said they are still working on the legalities. Then why promote it if it's not there yet? Oh yeah the lying thing ...
 
wballoni said:
I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?
Click to expand...
"the industry"? You may mean "the country", "the society", perchance "the world". I may be uber-cynical, but having spent 20 yrs dealing with upper management of 1000 companies across many industries, "lies" are sold as "spin" from the top-down. The G Costanza one above is good. Also
It is not a lie, if it helps your case.
It is not a lie, if everyone is doing/saying it.

Even the concept of "fact-checking" has become "spin-spinning"
 
wballoni said:
I know it's pervasive in the industry, but does it bother anyone that the company we've hitched our wagons to tells lies for money?
Click to expand...
It does to a degree but we are not going to fix it by ourselves. We simply have to decide whether to vote with our feet or hold our nose and move forward. To a degree it's really 2 independent systems of sales and management.
 
RookWDW said:
Just got out of a presentation at MGO. We own two legacy weeks and they pushed hard that weeks are very hard to use, book, trade, and the points are super easy and you can get what you want 96% of the time. Then, when I mentioned doing an amnesty program and enrolling the weeks, I was told the enrolled points are not the same as the real points and it would be harder to book than buying real points. That is, until the closer came in with the offer and express how the enrolled points and the new points are the same and can be combined for status and for booking. The first lady was frustrating enough that it eliminated any desire we had to purchase.
Click to expand...

My condolences---it shouldn't be that way.
Sounds like the same lady we had this past February at MGO....(btw, we only went for the incentives).....but she was so awful repeating previously debunked "phrases and facts"
(aka "lies") that for the very first time in our 25 year ownership we are considering never doing it again "despite the sometimes usable gifts".
Her tack was the old disproven advice that we could buy trust points which were going to super-charge our enrolled points.
That didn't last long because I flat-out smiled and said "oh please, that's an old one, and you KNOW it's not the case".
She kept repeatedly patting herself on the back so much, and touting her many accomplishments with "high-end clients", and extolling the advantages of doing things her way,
that we just got truly sick of her spiel and exited quicker than usual. I had stopped her a couple of times and called her bluff on some of the statements,
and when she tried to explain, it only blew wide open that she was bending the truth with out & out lies.
She finally realized that we were more well-schooled than she thought, and experienced to boot,
so she had to wind it down quickly or be thoroughly embarrassed more. She finally had no more comebacks because she was obviously spinning, bobbing, and weaving.
Not exactly a complimentary set of tactics when she was supposedly "one of the best".
She said she usually only "presented" to the highest percentile of owners with the most superior portfolios....
if so, why was she "fast-talking" and telling untruths and moving on so quickly?
Definitely not impressed.
 
Went on a sales presentation in Spain and the Salesman exaggerated about how affordable villas in the explorer part of the program had gotten. I checked several countries he had mentioned and they remained as poor uses of Destination Points. If we ever need a few more points for a year, renting them will always be the way to go , rather than making another purchase . We are already at Chairman benefit level and like to free up some of our funds for hotels and an occasional cruise. I have noticed that when a salesperson states that they regularly help clients with their bookings….. that is proof positive that they are dishonest . I hope some of Marriott Vacation Club sales and Management sees this post and stops saying this. It is insulting . Stop underestimating our intelligence !
 
I agree, I am not impressed with their tactics. Their style is to, like you said, talk fast and take advantage of impulse buyers on a vacation high. It does not work well at all with the educated owners. You would think they would know by now.
 
What's this new claim that Club Points purchased resale even when paying junk fees cannot see all trust inventory at new properties (like Westins and any new purchases going forward)? Resales points can only see inventory when a week owner, like Westin, chooses to elect Club Points for their week.
 
jme said:
My condolences---it shouldn't be that way.
Sounds like the same lady we had this past February at MGO....(btw, we only went for the incentives).....but she was so awful repeating previously debunked "phrases and facts"
(aka "lies") that for the very first time in our 25 year ownership we are considering never doing it again "despite the sometimes usable gifts".
Her tack was the old disproven advice that we could buy trust points which were going to super-charge our enrolled points.
That didn't last long because I flat-out smiled and said "oh please, that's an old one, and you KNOW it's not the case".
She kept repeatedly patting herself on the back so much, and touting her many accomplishments with "high-end clients", and extolling the advantages of doing things her way,
that we just got truly sick of her spiel and exited quicker than usual. I had stopped her a couple of times and called her bluff on some of the statements,
and when she tried to explain, it only blew wide open that she was bending the truth with out & out lies.
She finally realized that we were more well-schooled than she thought, and experienced to boot,
so she had to wind it down quickly or be thoroughly embarrassed more. She finally had no more comebacks because she was obviously spinning, bobbing, and weaving.
Not exactly a complimentary set of tactics when she was supposedly "one of the best".
She said she usually only "presented" to the highest percentile of owners with the most superior portfolios....
if so, why was she "fast-talking" and telling untruths and moving on so quickly?
Definitely not impressed.
Click to expand...

Wow, this comment is the "Statement of the Century," and should cause Marriott Vacation Club Sales Leaders to stop in their tracks, and reassess how they do business and who they are, professionally and personally. But, I have no hope for that, as MVC continues to move some of the most deplorable people, of highly questionable character, to leadership positions in their organization.

To read, Marty (JME), one of the most loyal, enthusiastic MVC supporters that I know, present such an assessment of an MVC sales employee, and her deception, is a disgrace. But, Marty and others, don't kid yourself, this lady's leaders and leadership know exactly how this lady operates, they know all about her lies and deception, but, they benefit financially/profit from her lies and deception, and they likely consider her dishonesty, and behaviors (that one day will capture the Security and Exchange Commisssion's attention), "the cost of doing business."

I am reminded of how a Pimp makes sures that his/her prostitutes are fed and drugged-up, to do their job.
 
Dean said:
It does to a degree but we are not going to fix it by ourselves. We simply have to decide whether to vote with our feet or hold our nose and move forward. To a degree it's really 2 independent systems of sales and management.
Click to expand...
This is no different than a relationship that involves domestic violence, where the injured spouse cannot free him or herself of the perpetrator.
 
WaikikiFirst said:
"the industry"? You may mean "the country", "the society", perchance "the world". I may be uber-cynical, but having spent 20 yrs dealing with upper management of 1000 companies across many industries, "lies" are sold as "spin" from the top-down. The G Costanza one above is good. Also
It is not a lie, if it helps your case.
It is not a lie, if everyone is doing/saying it.

Even the concept of "fact-checking" has become "spin-spinning"
Click to expand...

Normalization of Deviance.
 
rickandcindy23 said:
They all do it. The worst offender is not Marriott. Many of the Marriott salespeople are honest. We had a very honest guy at Willow Ridge in Branson years ago. Then we had a lying salesperson at Grande Vista, and it was such a sleazy experience. I need to have enough guts to call these morons liars to their faces, but I don't. I try to be polite, but I do ask them to repeat the lie, so they know I know they are lying.
Click to expand...

Not that we will ever go to another timeshare sales presentation - - never - - but if we did, when we were lied to by the salesperson, I'd disarm this bottle (like ringing a bell), and laugh (and leave)

 
WBP said:
This is no different than a relationship that involves domestic violence, where the injured spouse cannot free him or herself of the perpetrator.
Click to expand...
Maybe for some but for many of us, it's definitely not to that extreme. IMO it's more of a philosophical decision much like deciding where to shop based on social or ethical factors or whether to buy a mutual fund because part of their portfolio is in a company we may have an issue with. For me personally, I see management and sales as almost independent systems. Fortunately I am sufficiently informed as as most here on TUG as well as having sales contacts that will shoot straight. Those of us who have gone mostly or completely the resale route and saved a ton of $$$, have done so in part, on the backs of those people who were misled and/or sold something they couldn't afford. The reality is that timesharing would not exist if it were a truly open book system. It's a lot like buying a car at a dealership, most are dishonest to a degree if we define dishonest as misleading the customer.
 
We are at Surf Watch now as well. They let us know we were part of preferred check in which lasted 1 hour and we were not able to check in. Clearly they wanted us to attend sales meeting. We have not been on one in 10 years. We bought resale and have always been able to trade through II for wherever we wanted to go. We did buy into system at some point(points) but have never used them. Is there any reason to attend one of these meetings? And knowing getting lied to via OP.
 
I went to sales presentation @ HHV last year. Top salesman supposedly, 60 min turned into2 hrs. Started @ 67K was down to 18 by the time I left. Obviously did not buy, next time I will set a timer, my friend called so I could escape. Did get my gift cards though. Not a total loss and I had the time. I will say that if it is a true owner update, you can get valuable info. @ Westin my sister was even given some rental websites to offset maintenance fees.
 
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