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KBV: The Truth Please

the whole owners in those oceanfront buildings. They are in a world of hurt.
Could they own, or at least have had the opportunity to purchase, some type of homeowners insurance policy which a weekly timeshare owner would probably not want to purchase?

If any full time owner chose not to purchase homeowners insurance to save some bucks because they thought the timeshare manager would "take care of all that" then the consequences of that decision is on the full time owner.
A homeowners insurance policy for a condo typically includes everything inside, beginning with the walls, floors and ceilings. Condo HOA fees are supposed to cover the infrastructure of the building via a master insurance policy.

From this article "The dwelling portion of a homeowners insurance plan is a major part of the policy that safeguards the structure of your home, but it’s not as important in condo insurance.
The monthly association dues you pay when living in a condo contribute to a master insurance policy. The master insurance policy covers the structure of the condo complex ...... Since this master policy covers the structure of the building, it eliminates the need for much of the dwelling coverage for your condo. You still need some extent of coverage depending on the type of master policy your association has, as some plans cover more of the interior of your unit than others. The exterior of your unit is always protected
."

And that is probably at least part of the basis for the whole owner lawsuit. KBV and/or Wyndham was responsible for the structure, including having a master insurance policy.
 
I've never seen an insurance policy that covers decades-old construction defects or failure to inspect for decades-old construction defects. Unless such policies exist, I cannot see how the HOA or the management company can be blamed for not having this coverage.

If such insurance does exist, what does it cost, was the issue raised, and what was the response of the HOA or owners?
 
Great point. In 2006, Wyndham acquired KBV along with the rest of Pahio Resorts from David Walters, the developer. I wonder if there was language in that agreement that addressed responsibility for construction defects that might be found in the future?
 
I've never seen an insurance policy that covers decades-old construction defects or failure to inspect for decades-old construction defects. Unless such policies exist, I cannot see how the HOA or the management company can be blamed for not having this coverage.

If such insurance does exist, what does it cost, was the issue raised, and what was the response of the HOA or owners?
Latent defects, which are defects which cannot readily be detected, can happen and not found for many, many years after construction. Who is responsible? This can vary and is affected by common law and statute. Were these defects caused by negligence? When were they discovered? Were there performance surety bonds issued back then? Can performance liability last forever if negligence was the cause? Perhaps it was faulty materials and then who is responsible? It was stated that the problem was known for sometime and hidden. If this is true then the questions expand dramatically. Perhaps we will never know but with a debt of this size it would be reasonable for those with major exposure to seek the advice of professionals and contact their Attorney General to investigate this fully. I pity all involved but am irate over the lack of full disclosure by Wyndham management and the HOA. There is certainly an attempt to hide the truth.
 
I just do not buy into the Wyndham conspiracy theories.

"How can the repairs be made without a Special Assessment?" is an entirely legitimate and relevant question. If I were an owner at KBV and a Special Assessment came up for a vote, I would want to know the answer to that question before voting Yes or No.
Even though I have no idea why as a non-owner you are posting on this topic, I will attempt to help you understand. Also, I have read nothing that is close to a Wyndham conspiracy theory here so perhaps you could elaborate. Also, what concern is it of yours was basically asked but you have failed to reply, why?

Now, to the question of Special Assessment for the owners who have been left in the dark. I believe a good first step is to have at least 3 unbiased appraisals of the property done if not done thus far. What the property is now worth and a pro forma of what it would be worth after is important for any decision making. This, along with all the above already included information by dedicated tuggers, is your answer. Prudence is the key and that decision should not be made by Wyndham who not only manages the resort, possibly has control of the Board and owns property there. I understand corporate stockholder powers but possible conflicts and lack of full disclosure. No one really believes that Wyndham is ultimately going to do what is best for owners versus what is best for Wyndham. They have not in the past and certainly will not in the present in my opinion.

When the banks will only approve up to $ 10M and the deep pockets of Wyndham are not being used by them as a long term investment into the property, there has to be a question posed, " Is anything other than selling the property prudent". If so, the engineers would have to answer that question and maybe they have but we, the owners, are not aware of it. In fact, we, the owners, cannot even get a copy of the last certified audit.
 
I have read nothing that is close to a Wyndham conspiracy theory here so perhaps you could elaborate.
Here is just one example that has been slightly modified to be less conspiratorial:

Let me rephrase: it has occurred to me that perhaps Wyndham stopped accepting KBV Ovations deedbacks after acquiring enough weeks to give them the 50% ownership required to ram through the Special Assessment, which requires a majority owner vote control the decision making going forward, without feeling a need to convince individual owners to vote Yes for whatever they decide is best for Wyndham.
 
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Such a dedicated pot stirrer. :ROFLMAO:
 
CO Skier does not want any explanations - he is only here to support Wyndham.
 
Just a quick post of support. I've been through major SA twice, first about 15-20 years ago with Sheraton Vacation Resort Orlando almost $10k they gave us 3 years to pay and it turned out fine. Some sold cheap but its a nice resort now.

In 2022 Carriage Ridge / Carriage Hills was sold for $60M and we got $2k per week each. originally Shell but Wyndham bought Shell then a few years later big SA floated, but owners got organized hired a lawyer off voluntary contributions - you only need 100 paying $100 say - and pushed through a sale instead of an SA. You can find many threads about this.

It sounds very similar what Wyndham is trying and i think DeniseM concerns are true. I'd recommend forming a group asap to drag information from wyndham.
 
Here is just one example that has been slightly modified to be less conspiratorial:
You gotta be kidding. Why don't you just let this for worried owners and those who are offering helpful ideas not those who post only to spread falsehoods, wasted time craziness and blindly support anything Wyndham does? Conspiracy on CO skier part perhaps but how can facts be considered conspiracy?

Conspiracy
noun

  1. a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
    "she served five years in prison for taking part in a conspiracy to sell stolen art works"
  2. the action of plotting or conspiring.
    "they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice"
Oxford Language Dictionary
 
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Please don't feed the troll....

To block CO Skier, click on his blue user name and then click ignore and you will no longer see his posts at all. If everyone does that, he will magically disappear from this forum.
 
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Such a dedicated pot stirrer. :ROFLMAO:
C'mon magmue. Can you provide even the slightest bit of evidence to support your claim of "Wyndham stopped accepting KBV Ovations deedbacks after acquiring enough weeks to give them the 50% ownership"?

Of course not, because it is just paranoid speculation with no basis in fact. Someone should call out such complete bs.
 
I've never seen an insurance policy that covers decades-old construction defects or failure to inspect for decades-old construction defects. Unless such policies exist, I cannot see how the HOA or the management company can be blamed for not having this coverage.

If such insurance does exist, what does it cost, was the issue raised, and what was the response of the HOA or owners?

I've bought a lot of insurance for condominiums and have never seen that offered, and I've specifically asked for it once in the context of shopping a relevant policy and was told by a reputable broker that it doesn't exist. Insurance companies won't insure that risk, because they would lose money. At the pricing they'd need to charge for it the only buyers would be buildings that were pretty sure they had issues, so it end up still being unprofitable.

What happened at KBV isn't insurable. The original developer is probably technically liable if there are defects, but I can't imagine any recovery is likely there (unless Wyndham happens to own that entity now, a point worth investigating).

I do think it's almost certainly the case that owners would be better off selling the entire property as-is and dividing up the money. It's likely everyone would get out with enough to buy a comparable TS if they wanted to, which is quite a bit better than paying $7k+ to get this one fixed, especially given the near-certainty of a bad debt spiral as owners default.
 
C'mon magmue. Can you provide even the slightest bit of evidence to support your claim of "Wyndham stopped accepting KBV Ovations deedbacks after acquiring enough weeks to give them the 50% ownership"?

Of course not, because it is just paranoid speculation with no basis in fact. Someone should call out such complete bs.
Your continual vicious direct attacks against fellow TUGGERS and name calling (paranoid, conspiracy theorists, etc.) is unacceptable and the reason I left TUG awhile back.

I had a Wyndham sales employee who would post pro Wyndham lies, Wyndham broken promises, and verbatim, unorthodox Wyndham sales tactic continually. I knew he/she was a Wyndham employee because we then attended owner's updates and I would hear the same thing once a year. Now, it is Groundhog Day and another conflicted Wyndham associate in some form in the attack mode. The policy of full disclosure should exist within TUG as it is very distracting and accomplishes nothing but bad feelings.
 
Please don't feed the troll....

To block CO Skier, click on his blue user name and then click ignore and you will no longer see his posts at all. If everyone does that, he will magically disappear from this forum.
Thanks much for the advice on how to block vicious posters. On topics in which I am not the originator, I will take your advice and I promise to never go skiing again.

And I am guilty, of " feeding the troll ".
 
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Your continual vicious direct attacks against fellow TUGGERS and name calling (paranoid, conspiracy theorists, etc.) is unacceptable and the reason I left TUG awhile back.
What would you call the unsubstantiated anti-Wyndham theories with no basis in facts? Attacking fellow TUGGERS is against the TUG rules. Report the posts you think qualify as a rule violation.

I am merely challenging those who post unsubstantiated anti-Wydham conspiracy theories to post any "facts" they may have in support of their claims, but there are none, of course -- just baseless speculation which does not help any owner at KBV.
 
How to block trolls: click on his blue user name and then click ignore and you will no longer see his posts at all. If everyone does that, he will magically disappear from this forum.
 
How to block trolls: click on his blue user name and then click ignore and you will no longer see his posts at all. If everyone does that, he will magically disappear from this forum.
Any posted baseless, anti-Wyndham conspiracy theories will still be visible to anyone viewing this thread, and open to challenge for the supporting evidence, which somehow is never supplied.
 
How to block trolls: click on his blue user name and then click ignore and you will no longer see his posts at all. If everyone does that, he will magically disappear from this forum.
 
DeniseM said:
Please note that CO Skier is not an owner at this resort, and is unaware of the long history of poor Wyndham management and deception that the resort has suffered through. Apparently, he is inserting himself into this discussion because he's a Wyndham supporter.

Instead of arguing with him, I request that we consider his posts to be off-topic, and focus on the issues that concern us as owners.
I just do not buy into the Wyndham conspiracy theories.
so
"How can the repairs be made without a Special Assessment?" is an entirely legitimate and relevant question. If I were an owner at KBV and a Special Assessment came up for a vote, I would want to know the answer to that question before voting Yes or No
Seems like CO skier enters most Wyndham topics in support of Wyndham. The answers have been addressed and he is not an owner and is unaware of the Wyndham abuses in the past so I agree " CONSIDER COO SKIER'S POSTS AS OFF-TOPIC.
 
Thanks all for the good information about KBV I think we will just all have to take a wait and see approach and pray for the best.
 
unbiased appraisals
I'd recommend forming a group asap
owners got organized hired a lawyer off voluntary contributions - you only need 100 paying $100 say
I don't know that I need to see three appraisals, but it would be interesting to get one. The idea of several of us chipping in to get that done isn't a terrible idea, depending on how many/how much---assuming the Board is unwilling to do it. Unlike some other folks, I don't inherently distrust the Board--at least, not yet. Speaking of whom, I also plan to drop a note to the Board asking them to include the possibility of liquidation as one of the options. I suspect the whole owners would be less likely to go for that, but I agree with several others that it seems like it very well might be the best option for the interval owners.
 
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