KBV, envisioning the future

[schreff]

Aloha,
I am not worried about anything the non incumbent candidates say since there is negligible chance any will win (partially explained in post https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/kbv-envisioning-the-future.361679/#post-3031685 ):
A few years back KBV IOA director elections changed from two year terms with 3 directors elected one year and 2 the next to all director positions having three year terms and no more than 2 director positions being up in a single year’s regular election. Given Wyndham’s share of ownership and the change just described, it is hard to imagine how anyone could ever be elected again without Wyndham’s votes.
This long thread “Pahio Kauai Beach Villas board election” spans April 2016 through January 2019: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/pahio-kauai-beach-villas-board-election.240675/ It documents most of the story of how I got elected to the KBV IOA BOD. A key numerical detail was that Wyndham had to decide how to spread their voting power among their 3 candidates. Us independents only had to concentrate on coming in third place.

In addition, I have yet to see any indication that any of the 3 new candidates are engaging in any campaign communication beyond their statement in the official NOTICE OF ANNUAL MEETING OF THE MEMBERSHIP AND ELECTION OF DIRECTORS. The only way a non-Wyndham supported candidate can win is to have almost every independent owner vote for the same independent candidate ( https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/the-evolution-of-a-virtual-primary.289923/ ). With three independent candidates splitting that vote, negligible turns into zero.
The situation is sad. I believe there is virtually nothing us independent owners can do to influence it (other than choosing to pay or default). So I choose to not worry about it.
Jack

When you say that there are virtually no other options, my thought is that the BOD members are not living up to their legal fiduciary duties to we, the independent owners. Does anyone think that it is feasible that the Hawaii AG and/or another government authority would agree to investigate if a formal complaint was issued by this group. I would be glad to help prepare one and do some of the research if the group is interested. I paid the small special assessment and my maintenance fee but question if this is just a scam to ask for more money next month until the big one comes along?

 

[RNF]

Which is the right reading of this: that the $4.1 million is just the interval owners/whole owners share of the reconstruction costs and Wyndhams share is not included and undisclosed. Or that, Wyndhams cost is part of the $4.1 million, and that the amount collected $1.6 includes what Wyndham has contributed?

I asked whether it would be disclosed if Wyndham paid their Special Assessment for this round of funding. The answer was that I would never know who contributed whether it be a whole owner, interval owner, or Wyndham due to issues of privacy. My gut . . . Wyndham paid for the 105 timeshares they own and it's in the $1.6.

 

[benoma88]

Does any Tugger know the extent of damage to Pahio@KBV associated with April 2024 storm that can be shared with owners?
Can't seem to find news on Kauaibeachvillas.com/owners community , and as usual the BOD is silent on this matter !?!

 

[bnoble]

Have you called the resort directly? The folks at the front desk can probably tell you if anything happened.

 

[RNF]

I asked whether it would be disclosed if Wyndham paid their Special Assessment for this round of funding. The answer was that I would never know who contributed whether it be a whole owner, interval owner, or Wyndham due to issues of privacy. My gut . . . Wyndham paid for the 105 timeshares they own and it's in the $1.6.

I want to correct an error. This is from a conversation I had with a Wyndham representative...

There are 150 units at KBV
45 are whole unit owners
105 units sold as timeshares. (105 * 52 = 5460 weeks)
I do not know how many timeshare weeks were sold and how many weeks are still owned by Wyndham. I was told that 'pretty much all of the timeshares were sold' but I did not get hard numbers. Wish I did and continue to ask.

In my opinion, it would be good to know how the $4.1 million was allocated between whole unit owners, timeshare owners, Wyndham, and weeks owned by the Owners Association (I was told about 30 weeks).

PS: If my numbers are off, please update. Let's continue to seek more clarity and more transparency.

 

[rocketraj]

I just bid on this property thinking it was Wyndham points but it’s actually a deeded week. I will just take a ding on my eBay account and not go through with the purchase after reading this thread!

 

[rocketraj]

I just bid on this property thinking it was Wyndham points but it’s actually a deeded week. I will just take a ding on my eBay account and not go through with the purchase after reading this thread!

Do you all think I did the right thing to RENIG in my eBay offer to purchase a week 4 of KBV

 

[DeniseM]

I definitely would back out - the seller was wrong not to disclose the situation at the resort to you.

 

[rocketraj]

I definitely would back out - the seller was wrong not to disclose the situation at the resort to you.

Thanks @DeniseM - they also had the old MF stent $18xx now it is $19xx I believe for 2Bed

 

[bnoble]

You were 100% correct to back out. I would have backed out even if it had been converted to points. There is a significant potential liability to owning weeks here.

 

[Roger830]

I just bid on this property thinking it was Wyndham points but it’s actually a deeded week. I will just take a ding on my eBay account and not go through with the purchase after reading this thread!

There shouldn't be any ding by ebay.

Timeshare sales are non-binding because they are real estate transactions across state lines.

 

[DeniseM]

Thanks @DeniseM - they also had the old MF stent $18xx now it is $19xx I believe for 2Bed

The maintenance fee is the least of the problems: there is likely to be a huge special assessment, or the resort is going to go under.

 

[MMusselwhite]

A thought exercise of the possibilities. In the near future (hopefully) there is a vote on the remediation for KBV.
Scenario 1: the vote to remediate passes. A special assessment if levied and all parties pony up. The resort is saved.
Scenario 2: The vote passes. The special assessment only partially raises the necessary amount, and further assessments are levied. Many participants drop out. The following scenarios ensue.
Scenario 3: The vote to remediate does not pass. The resort is liquidated.
Scenario 3a: The liquidation results in a third party buying out the property, and involved parties are reimbursed according to their share.
Scenario 3b: The liquidation results in Wyndham buying out the owners share at some negotiated price.
Scenario 3c: The liquidation does not produce any buyers, and another Coco Palms situation ensues.
Is there another scenario I have not included? What do you think is likely?

So with the update that we just received what are you thinking about this? Will some members choose to forfeit membership instead of paying the assessment? And if I decide to pay it will we get in the middle of the renovation, recognize that there are those that will not pay and then be required to pay more to accomplish the mission? We are stuck either way.

This is the email that I sent to the Board: Email address I used is Liane.Henderson@wyn.com Not sure if this right but it was all I could find.
I am not sure if you are the correct person to email but if not can you let me know who is?

My husband and I own at KBV. The correspondence that the Board sent out did not answer my specific questions regarding the assessment that you are considering.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are owners who will not pay this. We voted to partition and get rid of the property. Then we get an assessment as if we are going through with this massive undertaking. Why are we not moving toward the owner vote?

If I pay (which I am not leaning towards this option) what guarantee do I have that we won't get halfway through this endeavor, have owners bailing and my part of the assess will then go up to an amount undetermined?

As an owner I need more information regarding what is going on to make my decision.
My husband and I own a 2 bed every other year. What would be our assessment total?

And last but not least my husband and I have exceptional credit which will certainly take a hit if we decide not to move forward. So I would like a response from someone. And when the board sends out an email there should be a response email address so that we don't have to hunt down where to respond.

This is sad for us and a difficult decision but I know that there are other owners who CAN NOT AFFORD to commit to this. Partition needs to be done.

 

[MMusselwhite]

There shouldn't be any ding by ebay.

Timeshare sales are non-binding because they are real estate transactions across state lines.

You definitely DO NOT want this property

 

[Roger830]

You definitely DO NOT want this property

You talking to me?

I was only replying to someone that was backing out of an ebay auction.

 

[tango]

If you own an every other year, your assessment will be half of what is stated on the letter. It is anybody’s guess what will happen if the full amount isn’t raised by the assessment. Going by recent events, it is entirely possible that the paying owners are reassessed. I suppose it would depend on how much is raised the first time. But it has been speculated that moving forward is a ploy to force someone’s hand, and that they might really not be serious. There are many moving parts, not the least of which is the whole owners lawsuit. While we are speculating, we could speculate, if the whole owners won, would the judgement be against Wyndham (they’re the only ones with deep pockets). In that case, is it more likely that the whole owners will pay the assessment with that money? Is it more likely that Wyndham will shut the whole thing down? For my part, I think that it is even more unlikely that significant money would be raised toward the big rebuild.

 

[bnoble]

But it has been speculated that moving forward is a ploy to force someone’s hand

I am one of those people.

A lot of interval owners will default, and their intervals will (eventually) be foreclosed. But, that's probably no big deal for most of them unless for some reason they need pristine credit---and even then, it might be less expensive to default and pay slightly more in interest on some car or home loan for a short while. The interval was worthless to begin with. Some owners will pay it, and while it will hurt, it is not make-or-break for a lot of people.

The whole owners, however, are between a rock and a hard place. They have to come up with close to $200K, on a property that they probably already have a non-trivial mortgage for. They probably cannot secure a new loan for it using the unit as collateral in the current lending market---and certainly not at a reasonable interest rate. How many of them are going to be able to write that check? Probably not many---and all of them are going to be subject to foreclosure, probably sooner rather than later. If enough whole owners are foreclosed, it may be possible to move forward with the partition vote before the lawsuit is concluded.

Does anyone remember what the threshold was for how far behind someone has to fall before the Board begins to take action? We talked about this when we were discussing whether Wyndham did or did not pay their SA for Project Reoccupy.

I will probably pay the SA for mine, and that's because I'll be in the market for a new house in the next six months.

 

[MMusselwhite]

I am one of those people.

A lot of interval owners will default, and their intervals will (eventually) be foreclosed. But, that's probably no big deal for most of them unless for some reason they need pristine credit---and even then, it might be less expensive to default and pay slightly more in interest on some car or home loan for a short while. The interval was worthless to begin with. Some owners will pay it, and while it will hurt, it is not make-or-break for a lot of people.

The whole owners, however, are between a rock and a hard place. They have to come up with close to $200K, on a property that they probably already have a non-trivial mortgage for. They probably cannot secure a new loan for it using the unit as collateral in the current lending market---and certainly not at a reasonable interest rate. How many of them are going to be able to write that check? Probably not many---and all of them are going to be subject to foreclosure, probably sooner rather than later. If enough whole owners are foreclosed, it may be possible to move forward with the partition vote before the lawsuit is concluded.

Does anyone remember what the threshold was for how far behind someone has to fall before the Board begins to take action? We talked about this when we were discussing whether Wyndham did or did not pay their SA for Project Reoccupy.

I will probably pay the SA for mine, and that's because I'll be in the market for a new house in the next six months.

Thank you for responding to me! We are leaning toward not doing it because you don't know what you are getting into when the other owners do not pay it.

 

[geist1223]

I wonder how many former Pahio Timeshares have the same hidden defects?

 

[bnoble]

There is one other thought: Anyone who has a converted week in an account with non-KBV sources of points will want to withdraw the week from the points program before choosing to default on the SA. Otherwise, it is likely that your entire account will be frozen.

 

[tango]

The whole owners, however, are between a rock and a hard place. They have to come up with close to $200K,

Does anyone remember what the threshold was for how far behind someone has to fall before the Board begins to take action?

I thought that the assessment for a whole unit was like $540k. The number I recall for action was >$5000 owed. In my case, we own an EOY 2 bedroom share, which I obtained on EBay for $1, several years ago, it doesn’t make any sense to now pay $5k+ to maintain a credit rating which we have no use for.

 

[magmue]

I thought that the assessment for a whole unit was like $540k.

The table with assessment amounts is in the thread I posted last week with the board's email.

 

[bianchicycle]

Along with the LARGE assessment, there is not reason to pay the maintenance fees which are now due. There is no way that I will pay the assessment fees for 5 weeks. It was a great 29 year ride, but time to get off the bus.

 

[DeniseM]

I wonder if an oceanfront owner gets turned over to collections if they could fight it with the pictures of the condemned buildings that I posted. I bet you could fight it with the credit bureaus with the pictures, as well.

 

[bianchicycle]

I doubt it! Default is default without an actual lawsuits. I doubt that the hit on our credit would last for very long or be that bad if your credit is excellent. Certainly not worth thousands of dollars of assessments. I also think that for those who voted to let the property go..... and no one counted the votes. Enough is enough!