KBV, envisioning the future

[tango]

A thought exercise of the possibilities. In the near future (hopefully) there is a vote on the remediation for KBV.
Scenario 1: the vote to remediate passes. A special assessment if levied and all parties pony up. The resort is saved.
Scenario 2: The vote passes. The special assessment only partially raises the necessary amount, and further assessments are levied. Many participants drop out. The following scenarios ensue.
Scenario 3: The vote to remediate does not pass. The resort is liquidated.
Scenario 3a: The liquidation results in a third party buying out the property, and involved parties are reimbursed according to their share.
Scenario 3b: The liquidation results in Wyndham buying out the owners share at some negotiated price.
Scenario 3c: The liquidation does not produce any buyers, and another Coco Palms situation ensues.
Is there another scenario I have not included? What do you think is likely?

 

[bianchicycle]

I "think" you have touched most of the items and all of it is out of our hands at the moment.I would like to say the following:

There are two seats open on the board. Two of you need to run and we all will vote for you. I can not due to age and health or I would do it. Now is the time to actully find out what is happening. When I was on my HOA BOD we could not reveal business from the executive BOD meetings, but I doubt that you can arrested for doing so.

 

[bnoble]

From where I am sitting #1 and #3C are unlikely. #1 is unlikely because #2 is more realistic--many owners will drop out at the Big Assessment, generting a death spiral.

But, I think 3 is more likely than either of those, provided the various owners are rational. I think 3c is an unlikely outcome because (IIRC) the property, once partitioned, is put up for auction. So, someone might only pay $1 for it, but it will go to someone. For that matter, I also don't see how 3b can happen unless Wyndham happens to be the high bid.

 

[tango]

I obviously do not understand the legalities of the ownership structure. But it seems to me, that Wyndham does have some significant financial stake in the property, that would motivate them not to allow the property to be auctioned off at $1. In which case, there would be motivation to acquire full ownership of the property, and hence scenario 3b.

 

[jacknsara]

I "think" you have touched most of the items and all of it is out of our hands at the moment.I would like to say the following:

There are two seats open on the board. Two of you need to run and we all will vote for you. I can not due to age and health or I would do it. Now is the time to actully find out what is happening. When I was on my HOA BOD we could not reveal business from the executive BOD meetings, but I doubt that you can arrested for doing so.

Aloha,

A few years back KBV IOA director elections changed from two year terms with 3 directors elected one year and 2 the next to all director positions having three year terms and no more than 2 director positions being up in a single year’s regular election. Given Wyndham’s share of ownership and the change just described, it is hard to imagine how anyone could ever be elected again without Wyndham’s votes.

This long thread “Pahio Kauai Beach Villas board election” spans April 2016 through January 2019: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/pahio-kauai-beach-villas-board-election.240675/ It documents most of the story of how I got elected to the KBV IOA BOD. A key numerical detail was that Wyndham had to decide how to spread their voting power among their 3 candidates. Us independents only had to concentrate on coming in third place.

I was the primary proponent within the BOD for the creation of this Kauai Beach Villas IOA Public Square forum. Post #2 within the sticky “KBV Forum Rule: Posting within a sticky in this KBV Forum is restricted to authorized persons only” contains a link to the adopted guidance for directors when posting in the KBV IOA PS forum https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/g...-when-posting-in-the-kbv-ioa-ps-forum.286967/ If the unlikely happens and an independent owner comes in second, that new board director would be expected to comply with this guidance.

Jack

 

[bnoble]

But it seems to me, that Wyndham does have some significant financial stake in the property, that would motivate them not to allow the property to be auctioned off at $1.

I think if you go back and read the letter that proposed the AOAO vote, you'll see that if the owners vote to partition from the condominium plan, then any single owner can force the auction, through some combination of the governing documents and Hawaii law. In that scenario, Wyndham is just another owner, to the extent that they currently hold the bag for any weeks.

 

[schreff]

I think if you go back and read the letter that proposed the AOAO vote, you'll see that if the owners vote to partition from the condominium plan, then any single owner can force the auction, through some combination of the governing documents and Hawaii law. In that scenario, Wyndham is just another owner, to the extent that they currently hold the bag for any weeks.

I have been trying to understand. Are you saying that a combination of governing documents and law exists that makes any group owner vote cast moot if one single owner objects to the outcome?

 

[bnoble]

No. My recollection is that if the vote to NOT PROCEED with remediation passes, one consequence is that we “partition” from the condominium plan and all become joint owners of the whole thing. At that point any one owner can demand the property be auctioned. And that’s the point. It’s quite clever actually because it avoids the problem of holdout/uncooperative/unresponsive owners.

Again this is from memory and I’m standing in line at the airport to check bags so I can’t go looking for the details. But I recall seeing this explained in the letter calling for a vote to NOT PROCEED. I presume you have a copy of it but if not I posted it to a shared Google drive.

 

[schreff]

Thank you for the info. No I did not get this letter. It seems that there are inconsistencies in what I receive and don’t receive. How would I get a copy? Again thanks

 

[schreff]

Thank you for the info. No I did not get this letter. It seems that there are inconsistencies in what I receive and don’t receive. How would I get a copy? Again thanks

 

[bnoble]

It was the letter announcing the vote almost a year ago now.

Post in thread 'KBV: Ballots on their way'
https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/kbv-ballots-on-their-way.350984/post-2915460

 

[bianchicycle]

Well, that time is here! There is no way that I can afford the big assessment so, why pay the maintenance or the little assessment. If they are going to come after me, they can do it for the entire amount. It's a crime what has happened to this property.

 

[schreff]

Yes, and I don't think we will ever hear the whole truth as to what happened. In my opinion, being left in the dark has made many owners decide like you. This is a unfair to you and problematic for owners who are hanging in. The remaining owners are going to see future special assessments increasing in number and amount until a concrete decision is made for or against remediation. It all has to do with cash flow. Wyndham's management fee has to be paid and this along with the inflation we have been experiencing will make the maintenance fees continue to rise along with the need for more special assessments as the resort deteriorates even further. There is no way for owner's can make an intelligent decision until the BOD and/or Wyndham gives us their future plans. Right now we are in a KBV death spiral to nowhere.

 

[RNF]

Good Morning,
Does anyone know the amount of money now in 'our' escrow account for the $4.1 million dollar project for buildings H & G?
As we all know .... fees were to be paid by April 1.

 

[DeniseM]

@RNF - You already asked this question - no one knows. This board is in Wyndumb's pocket, and they are not interested in keeping owners in the loop. I don't expect to find out.

 

[bnoble]

I am sure if you attend the next Board meeting and ask, they will give you at least round numbers---and I would not be surprised if it didn't come up in the course of officer reports. They've been pretty open about financials at the meetings.

Owners can attend Board meetings via zoom. If you don't have the link, let me know and I can put you in touch with someone who should be able to verify ownership and share the link. Once you are on "the list" you should get the meeting announcements via email.

 

[MMusselwhite]

So my question is how can we find out more information on the 4 people who aree on the ballot for the newest board member? I am interested in knowing what their thoughts are on the renovation project for the entire property. Their bios don't say much.

 

[MMusselwhite]

So my question is how can we find out more information on the 4 people who aree on the ballot for the newest board member? I am interested in knowing what their thoughts are on the renovation project for the entire property. Their bios don't say much.

It kinda scares me when they state they want to maintain the property as we have known it as that is going to require a huge assessment that I will not pay.

 

[jacknsara]

Aloha,
I am not worried about anything the non incumbent candidates say since there is negligible chance any will win (partially explained in post https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/kbv-envisioning-the-future.361679/#post-3031685 ):
A few years back KBV IOA director elections changed from two year terms with 3 directors elected one year and 2 the next to all director positions having three year terms and no more than 2 director positions being up in a single year’s regular election. Given Wyndham’s share of ownership and the change just described, it is hard to imagine how anyone could ever be elected again without Wyndham’s votes.
This long thread “Pahio Kauai Beach Villas board election” spans April 2016 through January 2019: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/pahio-kauai-beach-villas-board-election.240675/ It documents most of the story of how I got elected to the KBV IOA BOD. A key numerical detail was that Wyndham had to decide how to spread their voting power among their 3 candidates. Us independents only had to concentrate on coming in third place.

In addition, I have yet to see any indication that any of the 3 new candidates are engaging in any campaign communication beyond their statement in the official NOTICE OF ANNUAL MEETING OF THE MEMBERSHIP AND ELECTION OF DIRECTORS. The only way a non-Wyndham supported candidate can win is to have almost every independent owner vote for the same independent candidate ( https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/the-evolution-of-a-virtual-primary.289923/ ). With three independent candidates splitting that vote, negligible turns into zero.
The situation is sad. I believe there is virtually nothing us independent owners can do to influence it (other than choosing to pay or default). So I choose to not worry about it.
Jack

 

[bnoble]

I believe there is virtually nothing us independent owners can do to influence it (other than choosing to pay or default).

I think the vote to abandon is a third (and more likely) option. My read of how the AOAO presented the case suggests to me that that's the outcome they are hoping for. Given that the vote gives the interval owners an easy way out of an ownership that has essentially no value, I have to believe Wyndham is rooting that the vote to abandon succeeds. The only question for me is whether or not enough whole owners will agree to cut their losses. So far, that group has not struck me as ruthlessly rational enough to accept that this is the least-bad option of a no-win situation for them.

 

[RNF]

I am sure if you attend the next Board meeting and ask, they will give you at least round numbers---and I would not be surprised if it didn't come up in the course of officer reports. They've been pretty open about financials at the meetings.

Owners can attend Board meetings via zoom. If you don't have the link, let me know and I can put you in touch with someone who should be able to verify ownership and share the link. Once you are on "the list" you should get the meeting announcements via email.

I have: Henderson, Liane email: Liane.Henderson@wyn.com as the person to get the meeting announcements via email.

If you have a better contact let me know.

 

[bnoble]

I think that's right.

 

[RNF]

According to my contact at Wyndham "We have collected $1.6M of the $4.1M Special Assessment." As of 4/11/2024.

And I presume eveyone has read the escrow agreement for this round of funding.

 

[tango]

Interesting! The writing is on the wall.

 

[tango]

Which is the right reading of this: that the $4.1 million is just the interval owners/whole owners share of the reconstruction costs and Wyndhams share is not included and undisclosed. Or that, Wyndhams cost is part of the $4.1 million, and that the amount collected $1.6 includes what Wyndham has contributed?