Just bought but debating if it's worth it

[Ridewithme38]

You know what i always wonder after reading these threads with people screaming "Rent instead of buying" is how many of those people screaming that have their weeks up for rent....I've been on this forum awhile, so i know it's a lot of you

Recinding is a good idea! BUT, i'm not sure that renting is better then buying...But definately recind and do some more research before you buy or rent at all.....and take any advice to "Rent instead of buy" from forums like this with a grain of salt

 

[pwrshift]

I also go way back to the days of huge MR incentives to buy direct...my last two I bought for about $18,000 each from Marriott and each came with 500,000 MR points. My earlier ones also came with huge MR points incentives and some allowed trading for 110,000 or 100,000 MR points when maintenance fees were just over $400 a year. Great deal. I saw the world flying business class courtesy of Marriott.

Those days are gone unfortunately...and the 110,000 points are worth only $1375 and in most cases the MF fees are more than $1000. Still a deal, perhaps, but not nearly what they used to be as the number of points you can get is fixed...while MF can go up annually between 5-15%. Marriott is intentionally ruining the Marriott Rewards program...at least for the old times who knew a better time.

To the last poster above, I would rather rent from a TUG member than someone I didn't know on eBay. In many cases it's an owner who booked his week a year ahead and for whatever reason can't use it...so tries to rent it through eBay, Tug, or Redweek to just recover his costs or a little more. Owners can only rent weeks that they personally own, and not traders from Interval.

Renting gives newbies a chance for as little as the annual MF, sometimes less, to try different resorts and see if they really like timesharing without getting tied down to annual owner obligations...and experience in renting will make you a wiser buyer. You just need a little flexibility in when you can travel, and you may never need to buy.

Brian

 

[rpgriego]

I also go way back to the days of huge MR incentives... I saw the world flying business class courtesy of Marriott.

Those days are gone unfortunately...and the 110,000 points are worth only $1375 and in most cases the MF fees are more than $1000. Still a deal, perhaps, but not nearly what they used to be as the number of points you can get is fixed...while MF can go up annually between 5-15%. Marriott is intentionally ruining the Marriott Rewards program...at least for the old times who knew a better time.

With all due respect, I question your statement's accuracy in relation to INTERNATIONAL FIRST CLASS travel value. I continue to fly FIRST CLASS thanks to MRewards Travel Packages. Now that said, it takes advance planning and coordination, but I achieve it EOY.

 

[EducatedConsumer]

Take your money back and run.

Do your homework, and ? buy resale, if it fits your needs.

FYI, as December looms, some current owners become increasingly anxious about selling their timeshare, before their next year's maintenance fees become due. Historically, there are some bargains to be had on the secondary market in November and December.

 

[cooper5114]

OP here. I'm just curious how are you guys able to fly first class on an international flight as a result of your ownership? I can understand the one time in incentive (200K MR points for me or 3500 extra MVC points) but that's a one time deal and I'm not sure even what 200K MR points would buy you.

 

[cooper5114]

Well I'll respond to parting my own post. It looks like 1 MR point will be worth about $0.004 when I plugged it a couple MR fly and drive examples. So 200K MR points is worth about $800. But that's just a one time incentive. I can trade the 3500 MVC points in for MR points worth about $400 based on this.

 

[cp73]

OP here. I'm just curious how are you guys able to fly first class on an international flight as a result of your ownership?

I love this you got about 50 people telling you to back out and one guy mentions flying first class and thats your question!!!

Here is my take. First you need to spend a lot more money than you had planned. Second the moon and the stars have to perfectly align, the airlines have to be offering some sort of points discount special like half price on first class travel to get it within reason, then you have to plan this about 13 months out. Other than that its quite simple and I am sure a couple others will chime in..

Good luck and I hope you rescinded or your going to make some Marriott Sales Rep very happy!

 

[rpgriego]

OP here. I'm just curious how are you guys able to fly first class on an international flight as a result of your ownership? I can understand the one time in incentive (200K MR points for me or 3500 extra MVC points) but that's a one time deal and I'm not sure even what 200K MR points would buy you.

Point 1-- I hope the previous post below, from mid-June shows how I maximize my MRewards points exclusively with Travel Packages.
Point 2-- Notice that I convert three MVCs EOY for the points. Don't forget each one had a buy-in.
Point 3-- Today Marriott resales has villas priced at $14,000 that offer 125,000 points annually.
Point 4-- All of the steps below are done at a minimum 12 months out. TWELVE MONTHS!
Point 5-- In all honesty, other owners are passionately against my election for MReward points.

Originally Posted by rpgriego 06/12/2013 09:02 PM
So a FIRST Class ticket in July LAX to Rome on AA is not worth $9,000 (First Mile Saver award= 125,000 AAdvantage miles) because of a 12-14 hour flight? I think the art, history and the all around fun of Rome is worth a nights sleep, remember the seat turns into a six foot, six inch fully flat bed.

So for me, every other year I elect MRPs for my DSVI (110,000) and IP (125,000). Every year I can elect for my RP (110,000), but stick with every other year. I never elect MRPs for my Ko Olina because MVC gives me just shy of 6,000 DClub points annually.

So I receive 345,000 MRPs for a one-time cost of $4,500 or .013 per MRP.

I contact MRewards for a 7 night Travel Package Category 9 for 390,000 MRPs. They deposit 120,000 MRPs into my AAdvantage account and award me 7 nights hotel.

Now 7 nights at the Rome Grand Flora has a value as well.

Correct me if I'm WRONG...
$4,500 MFs COMPARED to the combined value of a $9,000 AA airfare AND the value of 7 nights at the Rome Grand Flora.

I believe even with "the devalue of MR Points" an owner can AVOID a "worst value proposition" situation or making a "certainly not a wise desicion" when electing MRPs and redeeming for a Travel Package.

Now I execute this plan every other year as do some of my buddies. NOTE: one buddy just elect points annually, but at the end of the day he is paying the same to accomplish what we do, just not as frequently.

BOTTOM LINE... Marriott Vacation Club ROCKS for me, my family and my buds!

 

[cooper5114]

CP73... Don't mis-interpret my question. I've decided to rescind my offer but I'm trying to figure stuff out.

I could easily see me wanting to buy a week in HHI at Grand Ocean during the summer. We'd use it but I could also see us trading it for another location. Places we'd be most interested in would be a ski location, Hawaii, Europe, and even Orlando.

Several more questions come to mind

1. How expensive is a summer week at GO? I'll go check ebay but you guys may know the market off the too of your heads.
2. How challenging would it be to trade this for those other locations given a years notice?
3. If I buy a property from an individual do I lose the ability to exchange my week for MR points -- not sure it makes sense but want to know my options. Same goes with ever converting them into points.
4. Is there a resource online that tells me what the maintenance fees r for a given property and week?

BTW thanks for all the insight....it has been extremely educational.

 

[StevenTing]

CP73... Don't mis-interpret my question. I've decided to rescind my offer but I'm trying to figure stuff out.

I could easily see me wanting to buy a week in HHI at Grand Ocean during the summer. We'd use it but I could also see us trading it for another location. Places we'd be most interested in would be a ski location, Hawaii, Europe, and even Orlando.

Several more questions come to mind

1. How expensive is a summer week at GO? I'll go check ebay but you guys may know the market off the too of your heads.
2. How challenging would it be to trade this for those other locations given a years notice?
3. If I buy a property from an individual do I lose the ability to exchange my week for MR points -- not sure it makes sense but want to know my options. Same goes with ever converting them into points.
4. Is there a resource online that tells me what the maintenance fees r for a given property and week?

BTW thanks for all the insight....it has been extremely educational.

For #3, you would lose that option.
For #4, most ebay auctions list the maintenance fees. In general, they're pretty close.

 

[dioxide45]

4. Is there a resource online that tells me what the maintenance fees r for a given property and week?

Check out the Weeks FAQ sticky at the top of the forum. There are links there to historical and current maintenance fees.

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

GregT's value per point chart helped me decide. I bought at the property we love and are having difficulty exchanging to consistently. We don't want a hit or miss.

http://gtibbitts.tripod.com/webonmediacontents/Points Values v10.pdf

 

[jimf41]

I love this you got about 50 people telling you to back out and one guy mentions flying first class and thats your question!!!

Here is my take. First you need to spend a lot more money than you had planned. Second the moon and the stars have to perfectly align, the airlines have to be offering some sort of points discount special like half price on first class travel to get it within reason, then you have to plan this about 13 months out. Other than that its quite simple and I am sure a couple others will chime in..

Good luck and I hope you rescinded or your going to make some Marriott Sales Rep very happy!

There is only one guy that posted in disagreement. That does not mean that the other 400,000 owners who didn't post agree with the buy resale argument. TUG is a great resource but the percentage of folks who actually post on here is infinitesimally small and most of them are folks who bought direct and then found out about the resale market and felt Marriott cheated them.

Marriott offered a product at a price. They didn't and don't force anyone to buy it. They offer a 10 day money back guarantee. Try getting one of those at your local Chevy dealer or anyone else who sells something for 35k+.

IMO Marriott went way out to bring the resale owners into the fold when they came up with the points system. Not very many took the olive branch. The weeks system and all it's advantages will eventually disappear. It may take a long time but it will happen. Weeks owners will always be able to use their weeks but the trading possibilities are now and will continue to be in decline.

So here is my advice to you COOPER5114. If you can afford the 35k they want for the 3500 points do it. If you have to finance then I would back out and read up a little more and possibly rent a week or two to see if you like timesharing. If you want more than one week to start with then go the resale route as buying enough points in the beginning to get two prime weeks is just too expensive IMO. BTW the 3500 points they are selling you will only get you one of the weeks that I occupy, a 1bdrm OF at Ocean Point in July for seven nights. If you want to travel 5 nights SUN-THURS then you can pretty much go anywhere in a 2bdrm. Marriott is counting on you buying more points over the years but you had to assume that when you bought assuming you liked the product. Who doesn't remodel a bathroom or a kitchen or trade up to a nicer car when you can afford it.

I own seven weeks all bought though Marriott for a little over 150k. I didn't buy them all at once but over a period of about five years. I have no regrets and have garnered more vacations and FC airfares than I can remember. My kids and my grandkids all enjoy them and are planning on keeping them when I'm gone.

One more thing. There are now two guys that have posted in disagreement.

 

[Quadmaniac]

As a "newbie" myself for 18 months, I would strongly suggest you buy resale weeks rather than points. My total cost for buying 4 annuals and 1 biannual is less than $2,500 total for all of them and I have enjoyed about about 12 weeks away during this time for a total cost of less than $9,000 including maintenance fees, membership, exchange fees and the cost of purchase included.

It will be years before I spend $34,000 plus about $1500 in annual MF in your first year. Just remember your 3400 points will maybe get you a week in a one bedroom. I've had probably 5 two bedroom and 7 one bedroom units in this time. Your $1500 each year will generate one week in a one bedroom. If I am putting out $1500, I will have two weeks probably in a two bedroom unit. You do the math.

By the time I spend $35,500, I would estimate that I would have had 54 weeks of timeshare usage by the time you get your first. Pretty easy decision now ?

There are many ways to get to the same destination but do you really want to pay more than 20x as much to get less ? Doesn't make sense to me, but as everyone says, it is your money and your choice. Personally I will NEVER buy new, EVER.

 

[cooper5114]

Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.

If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?

Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.

 

[StevenTing]

Any resale week purchases after June 2010 is not eligible for the DC program.


--
Sent using Tapatalk

 

[rpgriego]

Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.

If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?

Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.

Not buying from Marriott leaves you with the following use options:
-- home resort stay
-- Interval International bank
-- Interval International trade
-- private party trade
-- private party rent

Buying from Marriott Resale will cost you $##,### for a three bedroom villa and $##,### for matching DClub point value. That's the cheapest Marriott/developer buy-in. WHY the matching DClub point value buy? Marriott requires it to bring your cheap resale week into the DClub.

Why did I say say a three bedroom RESALE villa? Because once YOU experience SPACE, YOU will always want SPACE! Seriously, everyone on here will offer their opinion on which three bedroom to buy. That said, I believe the cheapest is a nonlock-off Imperial Palms for $14,000 and it comes with the option for 125,000 ANNUAL MRPs.

I think I got this right!

 

[SMHarman]

Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.

If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?

Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.

Yes but if you cannot use or rent / sublet a week then you can drop the week into Interval International and exchange it for another week at a point in time in the future.

 

[SueDonJ]

CP73... 3. If I buy a property from an individual do I lose the ability to exchange my week for MR points -- not sure it makes sense but want to know my options. Same goes with ever converting them into points. ...

Related to my #3 question. Sounds like you lose the ability to convert unused weeks to MR points as long as youre in the traditional system, but I assume you can convey the property to the trust in exchange for DC points, right -- shift into the DC program for good.

If so once that is done I assume you still do not have the option to convert DC points to MR points and you cannot take advantage of the getaway (name?) prices?

Trying to nail down what u lose by not buying from Marriott.

Any Weeks purchased on the external market are not eligible to be exchanged for Marriott Rewards Points.

The cutoff dates for DC enrollment are 6/20/10 for the US resorts and 6/18/12 for the European resorts - Weeks purchased after those dates are not eligible for DC enrollment. But enrollment is not a permanent exchange of Weeks for DC Points - Owners do not "convey the property to the trust" when they join the DC program; only Marriott can convey to the Trust. Enrollment is basically an overlay system in which Weeks Owners who enroll their Weeks can elect to convert their Weeks to DC Points on an annual basis. When buying or selling a Week, DC enrollment/eligibility does not transfer with the sale.

 

[rpgriego]

There is only one guy that posted in disagreement. That does not mean that the other 400,000 owners who didn't post agree with the buy resale argument. TUG is a great resource but the percentage of folks who actually post on here is infinitesimally small and most of them are folks who bought direct and then found out about the resale market and felt Marriott cheated them.

Marriott offered a product at a price. They didn't and don't force anyone to buy it. They offer a 10 day money back guarantee. Try getting one of those at your local Chevy dealer or anyone else who sells something for 35k+.

IMO Marriott went way out to bring the resale owners into the fold when they came up with the points system. Not very many took the olive branch. The weeks system and all it's advantages will eventually disappear. It may take a long time but it will happen. Weeks owners will always be able to use their weeks but the trading possibilities are now and will continue to be in decline.

So here is my advice to you COOPER5114. If you can afford the 35k they want for the 3500 points do it. If you have to finance then I would back out and read up a little more and possibly rent a week or two to see if you like timesharing. If you want more than one week to start with then go the resale route as buying enough points in the beginning to get two prime weeks is just too expensive IMO. BTW the 3500 points they are selling you will only get you one of the weeks that I occupy, a 1bdrm OF at Ocean Point in July for seven nights. If you want to travel 5 nights SUN-THURS then you can pretty much go anywhere in a 2bdrm. Marriott is counting on you buying more points over the years but you had to assume that when you bought assuming you liked the product. Who doesn't remodel a bathroom or a kitchen or trade up to a nicer car when you can afford it.

I own seven weeks all bought though Marriott for a little over 150k. I didn't buy them all at once but over a period of about five years. I have no regrets and have garnered more vacations and FC airfares than I can remember. My kids and my grandkids all enjoy them and are planning on keeping them when I'm gone.

One more thing. There are now two guys that have posted in disagreement.

WOW! This was an honest post, but in defense of the some other posters on here... they've also expressed NO regrets for their developer purchases/portfolio. I believe it's because they've worked the system since their buy-in. And let's not forget those lucky non-MVC buyers (pre 6/2010) who have joined the DClub.

We need more of the 420,000 owners and members of 550,000 weeks (as of 12/31/2013) on this site speaking-up!

If someone starts calling you a Marriott Rep going forward just laugh it off. I do!

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

There is only one guy that posted in disagreement. That does not mean that the other 400,000 owners who didn't post agree with the buy resale argument. TUG is a great resource but the percentage of folks who actually post on here is infinitesimally small and most of them are folks who bought direct and then found out about the resale market and felt Marriott cheated them.

Marriott offered a product at a price. They didn't and don't force anyone to buy it. They offer a 10 day money back guarantee. Try getting one of those at your local Chevy dealer or anyone else who sells something for 35k+.

IMO Marriott went way out to bring the resale owners into the fold when they came up with the points system. Not very many took the olive branch. The weeks system and all it's advantages will eventually disappear. It may take a long time but it will happen. Weeks owners will always be able to use their weeks but the trading possibilities are now and will continue to be in decline.

So here is my advice to you COOPER5114. If you can afford the 35k they want for the 3500 points do it. If you have to finance then I would back out and read up a little more and possibly rent a week or two to see if you like timesharing. If you want more than one week to start with then go the resale route as buying enough points in the beginning to get two prime weeks is just too expensive IMO. BTW the 3500 points they are selling you will only get you one of the weeks that I occupy, a 1bdrm OF at Ocean Point in July for seven nights. If you want to travel 5 nights SUN-THURS then you can pretty much go anywhere in a 2bdrm. Marriott is counting on you buying more points over the years but you had to assume that when you bought assuming you liked the product. Who doesn't remodel a bathroom or a kitchen or trade up to a nicer car when you can afford it.

I own seven weeks all bought though Marriott for a little over 150k. I didn't buy them all at once but over a period of about five years. I have no regrets and have garnered more vacations and FC airfares than I can remember. My kids and my grandkids all enjoy them and are planning on keeping them when I'm gone.

One more thing. There are now two guys that have posted in disagreement.

I disagree that weeks owners, all of almost half a million will disappear. We will be around, maybe not just trading through Marriott. Amongst ourselves, we'll figure it out.


BTW, this may be hard to believe from a Marriott owner, but the TS world is much bigger than Marriott. Much bigger...Marriott is a good network, but shutting others out will only be a disadvantage to Marriott owners.

 

[rpgriego]

BTW, this may be hard to believe from a Marriott owner, but the TS world is much bigger than Marriott. Much bigger...Marriott is a good network, but shutting others out will only be a disadvantage to Marriott owners.

"shutting others out"???

 

[GregT]

BTW, this may be hard to believe from a Marriott owner, but the TS world is much bigger than Marriott. Much bigger...Marriott is a good network, but shutting others out will only be a disadvantage to Marriott owners.

"shutting others out"???

I think SkyBlue is only stating that there are other attractive timeshare systems out there, and Marriott owners may not consider them if they are overly devoted to Marriott.

Personally, I only owned Marriott (and Worldmark) prior to June 20, 2010, and have purchased Starwood and HGVC subsequent to that date. I would not have purchased either of them, except for my own personal perception of the shortcomings of the new Marriott system. While I like many things about the Marriott system, I am very very happy with the purchase of both systems and my expansion beyond Marriott -- they are great complements to the Marriott ownership.

Best,

Greg

 

[rpgriego]

I think SkyBlue is only stating that there are other attractive timeshare systems out there, and Marriott owners may not consider them if they are overly devoted to Marriott.

Personally, I only owned Marriott (and Worldmark) prior to June 20, 2010, and have purchased Starwood and HGVC subsequent to that date. I would not have purchased either of them, except for my own personal perception of the shortcomings of the new Marriott system. While I like many things about the Marriott system, I am very very happy with the purchase of both systems and my expansion beyond Marriott -- they are great complements to the Marriott ownership.

Best,

Greg

Totally see your POV. But, my question remains unanswered.

BTW...
Their is NO BETTER timeshare than HGVC's NY Hilton property. Spent five nights with my all my buds there and EACH OF US LOVED IT! That has yet to happen at a Marriott VC or Four Seasons RClub.

Is it true the HGVC Hilton NY lease expires in two years???

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

"shutting others out"???

If weeks owners "disappear" meaning mainly in-network through DC exchanges are happening, how do you trade outside? At least , that is the scenario painted here or it seems this the way Marriott wants to go. Why else devalue weeks ownership?