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Just bought but debating if it's worth it

GregT

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If weeks owners "disappear" meaning mainly in-network through DC exchanges are happening, how do you trade outside? At least , that is the scenario painted here or it seems this the way Marriott wants to go. Why else devalue weeks ownership?

I don't see this happening -- I think it will always be easy for Marriott owners to trade outside of Marriott (except to other systems that also have a preference -- like Starwood).

I do believe that the most prime (eligible for enrollment) Marriott weeks will either 1) be used for personal use or 2) be enrolled into DC and used for DC Point exchanges. I think it unlikely that an owner of a prime week will be trading outside the Marriott system.

I think trading outside of the Marriott system will always be easy/welcomed by Marriott. That frees up a potentially prime week for use by II or Marriott, and in trade for an external week.

Marriott may have had different motives for supporting/not supporting the value of weeks ownership, but personally, I don't believe trading externally is viewed as a problem by Marriott.

Best,

Greg
 

lizap

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I recently purchased platinum and gold Westin and Hyatt weeks (resale) and have been looking to add a third TS and seriously considered DVC and Marriott. DVC is too limited on locations and costs too much. As far as Marriott, buying directly from Marriott is too expensive as well. If you buy a Marriott resale, you cannot use Marriott's internal exchange but must use II. Given where the OP wants to travel, I would suggest that you take a look at Starwood and Hyatt (Starwood would probably better suit your needs). If you buy resale (platinum) at a Starwood mandatory property, you can get you to Hawaii, Orlando, and the mountains, and you can use Starwood's internal exchange system - and your cost will be considerably less, much less than $35K. I found Hyatt's resale weeks very reasonable as well, but I don't believe they have an Orlando property, but are building a property in Hawaii. Bottomline, if you want to trade internally, Marriott points must be purchased directly with Marriott, and they are way too expensive. I will be recouping my costs on Westin and Hyatt TSs in a few years; with Marriott, it would take more than 10 years. Unacceptable in my opinion, especially since many of the Marriott properties can be rented or even booked via Marriott at quite reasonable prices.


I think SkyBlue is only stating that there are other attractive timeshare systems out there, and Marriott owners may not consider them if they are overly devoted to Marriott.

Personally, I only owned Marriott (and Worldmark) prior to June 20, 2010, and have purchased Starwood and HGVC subsequent to that date. I would not have purchased either of them, except for my own personal perception of the shortcomings of the new Marriott system. While I like many things about the Marriott system, I am very very happy with the purchase of both systems and my expansion beyond Marriott -- they are great complements to the Marriott ownership.

Best,

Greg
 
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rpgriego

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If weeks owners "disappear" meaning mainly in-network through DC exchanges are happening, how do you trade outside? At least , that is the scenario painted here or it seems this the way Marriott wants to go. Why else devalue weeks ownership?

The DClub was really formed to expand affordability for new sales and increase sales to existing owners. Do you recall the average price of a week preDClub? Considering the average number of points that are now bought their decision to launch makes sense. Now the average number of points could be skewed by existing owners only buying small point packages for whatever reason. For example, I only bought 1,000 points to achieve PremierePLUS status. And so far, I don't regret it!

Weeks owners will NEVER disappear, however you're correct that the lure of the DClub will only grow stronger as more and more weeks owners join. But, as you wisely said, owners outside the DClub will find a way to trade into other resorts.
 
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Pens_Fan

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The DClub was really formed to expand affordability for new sales and increase sales to existing owners.

The DClub was formed because Marriott was stuck trying to figure out how to sell off all of the leftover silver and bronze weeks at resorts after the platinum and golds were gone.

Bring out the point option where anyone can buy enough points to, theoretically, go to any resort at any time of the year. It doesn't matter that there really is only so much prime time of the year.

Marriott didn't do this to expand affordability, they did it to make more money.
 

csxjohn

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...

Marriott didn't do this to expand affordability, they did it to make more money.

And the best way for TS companies to make more money is to is to roll out something that is perceived as status, something that not everyone has but you can have for $XX,XXX.

Without all the glitz and the high pressure a very small percentage of the population will see these types of programs as worth the money to get them.

Suggesting that the other thousands of owners are convinced that the money was well spent because they are not voicing their opposition is like talking about the "silent majority." Remember that, "oh, they are not voicing their opposition so they must be for it.":hysterical:

Keep you're $35,000 for now and find out what really has value to you in Timeshare World.
 

pwrshift

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A couple of points:

1. BusinessClass seats are usually only found on 3 class planes but take less FF miles than first class. But on 2 class planes first class takes the same number of points as business class on 3 class planes. Most planes are 2 class including many international flights like Air Canada. I use my UA FF miles from Marriott pkgs on Air Canada, Swiss, Lufthansa, etc., as partners in Star Alliance that have many non-stop flights all over the world from the Toronto hub (YYZ). If you check SeatGuru.com you can see the seat size specs.

2. Marriott will eventually run out of 'weeks'. As each of us die off or sell our weeks, they cease being part of the DC inventory...unless Marriott changes the current rules on 'resale'. Without those weeks and if Marriott doesn't start building again, the DC Program is doomed. Many first time buyers used to be 'conned' into buying a 'new' TS week ... when in fact they are all 'used'.
Still, newbies often get conned into buying $35,000 worth of DC points because they make incorrect assumptions there is no other choice. Then, in a buyer remorse period after spending all that money on nothing, a very few of them find TUG.

Brian
 
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Saintsfanfl

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And the best way for TS companies to make more money is to is to roll out something that is perceived as status, something that not everyone has but you can have for $XX,XXX.

Bingo. It will always be something "new" and "exclusive". Today's exclusivity will be tomorrow's worthless stale mail.

Eventually they will build an "exclusive" resort that will not be able to be reserved with DC points.
 

GregT

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2. Marriott will eventually run out of 'weeks'. As each of us die off or sell our weeks, they cease being part of the DC inventory...unless Marriott changes the current rules on 'resale'. Without those weeks and if Marriott doesn't start building again, the DC Program is doomed.

Brian,

I actually think this will help Marriott -- over time, they can simply acquire those weeks (that are being sold) via ROFR and stick them in the trust, and recycle those weeks through points sales. This has the added benefit of making the Trust inventory more robust. I think in time (15 years?) we will find that many of the prime weeks exist in the Trust, which will make the Marriott timeshare system into more of a true point system -- where the inventory is controlled --- versus just an exchange. I think this will make the usage of points even easier.

This doesn't bode well for the II trader, and its not clear what it means for the Floating week owner, to compete for reservations with an owner that owns the majority of prime floating weeks.

I think if the DC was going to fail, it would have failed initially, when they didn't have access to the critical inventory to meet initial points reservation requests. I also think this is why they allowed legacy owners to enroll at all -- they needed access to our weeks, and they needed customers for their new product. But they've navigated the infancy, and the reservations part of the system is now running well.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves over time.

Best,

Greg
 
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SueDonJ

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... 2. Marriott will eventually run out of 'weeks'. As each of us die off or sell our weeks, they cease being part of the DC inventory...unless Marriott changes the current rules on 'resale'. Without those weeks and if Marriott doesn't start building again, the DC Program is doomed. ...

Marriott has ramped up their buyback and ROFR activity during the last year or so. With them holding ROFR on the overwhelming majority of Weeks in the system, I'm expecting that over the years they'll exercise it for any resorts/intervals that they want to fuel the DC Trust and Exchange Company. I don't agree at all that, "the DC Program is doomed," not when they have so many avenues open to re-acquiring existing Weeks.

{ETA} What Greg said. :)
 

SueDonJ

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... Now the average number of points could be skewed by existing owners only buying small point packages for whatever reason. ...

Small points packages combined with banking/borrowing make for a very attractive ownership for folks who were priced completely out of the market just prior to the DC inception. Now Marriott can sell them one-third of the Points required for any Week in the system with the idea that they can get that dream vacation every three years, plus reap the secondary benefits of membership. It's a more budget-minded (as compared to Weeks) direct-purchase entry into a system and it's been proven effective in older, established systems.

... For example, I only bought 1,000 points to achieve PremierePLUS status. And so far, I don't regret it! ...

IMO this is the most risk-laden reason - pertaining to usage - to purchase DC Points. The DC docs make it very clear that the thresholds for DC status are based on the aggregate total of all Points and are subject to increases, and that a Member's current status at the time of an increase will not be grandfathered. In fact, the docs clearly spell out what will happen - Members will retain their current status only through the end of the Use Year following such increases and then be assimilated into the new tier structure.

Granted, there's no telling when increases will happen, but it's definitely a risk that IMO should be understood by any buyers/enrollees.
 

kjd

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It's my observation that most large businesses that fail, fail because of a lack of customers rather than a lack of product. The idea of a Marriott bankruptcy because of a lack of inventory is hard to imagine. Although Marriott does own some hotel properties, their core business is hotel management. That business model is based on being an operator rather than ownership.

The spin-off of the timeshare business and the introduction of the points program signals the fact that Marriott Worldwide Vacations (VAC) is strictly a service corporation. Obviously, they were confident prior to the spin-off that the procurement of inventory was not going to be a problem. So far, I think they were right.
 

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good morning...

Puck crystal ball... # of points for PP and P will not increase... Following the bouncing Puck...

PP is 5% of owners... In order for the points to go up, for every 20 new DC owners, 1 PP owner must be created to keep the 5% ratio. I think the majority of the "top-offers" have already done so. Greg's buddy aside, just betting that perhaps 1 of 50 to 1 in 100 new purchasers fork up for 13K points... There are some Grand Residence quarterly owners that just enrolled swelling DC PP somewhat but I think numbers work out as described...

I do think it may make more sense to create a new Tier..Perhaps 16K points that gives more goodies... This way you don't anger current PP's and give all others a new level to strive for...
 

pwrshift

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Brian,

I actually think this will help Marriott -- over time, they can simply acquire those weeks (that are being sold) via ROFR and stick them in the trust, and recycle those weeks through points sales. This has the added benefit of making the Trust inventory more robust. I think in time (15 years?) we will find that many of the prime weeks exist in the Trust, which will make the Marriott timeshare system into more of a true point system -- where the inventory is controlled --- versus just an exchange. I think this will make the usage of points even easier.

This doesn't bode well for the II trader, and its not clear what it means for the Floating week owner, to compete for reservations with an owner that owns the majority of prime floating weeks.

Greg

Good point Greg as I hadn't factored in ROFR, mainly because to date I don't see them using it much. Friends have bought Manor Club and Beachplace for hundreds of dollars over the last year and all went through ok. That doesn't mean Marriott won't step up ROFR but other than the occasional post on TUG it appears a high percent is going through. Two ebay retailers say all theirs are getting through.
Either way it might mean more dollars when we sell than available today.

Brian
 

rpgriego

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IMO this is the most risk-laden reason - pertaining to usage - to purchase DC Points. The DC docs make it very clear that the thresholds for DC status are based on the aggregate total of all Points and are subject to increases, and that a Member's current status at the time of an increase will not be grandfathered. In fact, the docs clearly spell out what will happen - Members will retain their current status only through the end of the Use Year following such increases and then be assimilated into the new tier structure.

Granted, there's no telling when increases will happen, but it's definitely a risk that IMO should be understood by any buyers/enrollees.

You've clearly stated a very wise opinion, however I'm LOVING PremierePLUS status. The ability to book a Sunday through Thursday stay, where I want, whatever season I want, in the room type I want, BEFORE most owners is PRICELESS!
 

rpgriego

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The DClub was formed because Marriott was stuck trying to figure out how to sell off all of the leftover silver and bronze weeks at resorts after the platinum and golds were gone.

Bring out the point option where anyone can buy enough points to, theoretically, go to any resort at any time of the year. It doesn't matter that there really is only so much prime time of the year.

Marriott didn't do this to expand affordability, they did it to make more money.

You're partially right. They did have a lot of not so highly desired weeks that have been conveniently transferred into the trust. But, they also had a lot of EXPENSIVE weeks transferred into the trust. We're you able to afford OCEAN FRONT/OCEAN VIEW developer pricing for Ko Olina, Maui, Crystal Shores, Lakeshore Reserve, ski resorts, Caribbean. Basically, MVC's new tier of purpose built. I'm going to assume your answer is no, but what if I told you SueDonJ's 1/3; 1/3; 1/3 point idea puts the sands of Hawaii or the Caribbean islands within reach in a spacious two or three bedroom villa. Imagine the difference an MVC villa gives you vs a hotel room or two. And we can finance it for you as well. Just like any salesman I don't talk price, I talk an affordable monthly payment.

So you see, affordability is the key. Today's dollars are locking in a lifetime of memories, that you're giving your family.

Still doubt me??? The growing ownership speaks for itself!
 
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pwrshift

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The growing ownership speaks for itself!

Speculation on your part, or do you have 'official' proof and not PR from Marriott? If you make a statement that is not just an opinion please back it up with sources.
 

rpgriego

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Speculation on your part, or do you have 'official' proof and not PR from Marriott? If you make a statement that is not just an opinion please back it up with sources.

ahhh...

You can do the same research I do by reading MVW's legal filings aka 10-Q. Do you think the numbers they contain on sales and/or ownership are "speculation"? Do you think the stocks appreciation, is based on reported results or "speculation"?

I'll give your PR comment some credit. Every company spins their numbers including the one you work for and the one I work for. Oh, and MVW too! And Apple. And Disney. I'm always suspect of GE and the famous Welch philosophy of using quarterly restructuring charges and credits.

I welcome a challenge, just not such an easy one.
 

GregT

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The growing ownership speaks for itself!

Speculation on your part, or do you have 'official' proof and not PR from Marriott? If you make a statement that is not just an opinion please back it up with sources.

You can do the same research I do by reading MVW's legal filings aka 10-Q.

Okay, not sure where you guys are going with this one.

At 12/31/10, there were 400,000 owners (per their SEC filing when they filed the Information Statement for SpinCo).

At 12/31/12, there were 421,000 owners (per their 12/31/12 10-K).

That's definitely growing ownership -- 5% over two years -- 2.5% per annum. slow, but steady.

The more impressive number (to me) is that they are selling ~$600M of points/weeks per year, which is a real revenue number.

Best,

Greg
 

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But with the 200 million points in the trust at the $11.88 price that's almost $2.4 Billion in inventory. If they've sold $600 million per year, that means they'll sell out soon. Maybe have 2 or 3 years of sales left based on current trust numbers.

My guess is this accelerates ROFR unless we see more weeks conveyed to the trust soon.


--
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SueDonJ

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You've clearly stated a very wise opinion, however I'm LOVING PremierePLUS status. The ability to book a Sunday through Thursday stay, where I want, whatever season I want, in the room type I want, BEFORE most owners is PRICELESS!

Oh I agree, Premier Plus status gives Members the best of the DC's flexible features along with the best secondary perks/benefits of membership.

I just wouldn't recommend that someone should purchase DC Points for the sole reason of attaining status, unless s/he completely understands that the status thresholds are not guaranteed.
 

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When/If the Asia Pacific weeks and AP Points are brought into the DC in perhaps 2014, we will then see a potential jump in Premier and Premier Plus numbers but again it will be small. Depends on how the AP weeks and Points systems are included, if like Europe the weeks owners are allowed to enroll and the Points are merged into the DC then there are probably some European owners who did not enroll their EU weeks but with their AP weeks and possibly AP Points then they might well now enroll and go to Premier or Premier Plus status.
 
L

laurac260

We own one week, bought resale, at grande ocean in Hilton head. We don't trade. The facility is 80% owner occupied. This week I think it is higher than 80%.

Weeks owners aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
 
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