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Is timeshare a scam?

Impressive! Not quite 48 weeks but in the last 12 months (Oct 24 to Sept 25) I've stayed in Mariott Timeshares 230 nights, Hotels (mostly Marriott branded) 24 nights and the remainder of the time with family and friends. I don't own a home or rent an apartment at this time (have a storage unit) and have successfully rented out excess ownership to more than cover all annual fees.

Not a scam for my situation but can understand why some would say they are.
That's real impressive, you have deep knowledge and insights if all true. I'm impressed and would love to know how you do what you do. We are no longer timeshare Owners, and never plan to be again, it's your use of the system that I find intriguing.
 
Thanks in part to my college education, I learned how to do research and now get excellent value out of my resale timeshare.
Re-sale? You got lucky....'and I'll raise you one'. Unless you inherited it from your parents in the 1970's, I can't see you got any value on a re-sale, unless its some extradentary product? 'Excellent value' could have all sorts of meaning and interpretation?
 
Actually, ITS NOT ! An OWNER CAN simply GIVE IT BACK TO THEM, (that's my use of pedestrian language). But that's the big secret the Timeshare industry doesn't want out. They want you to pay coming in the front door and pay leaving the back door.
You don't have to, when you know what I know. I gave my second crappy Timeshare back, because I put in the 7 months to figure out the game that Timeshare industry doesn't want me to speak about! Any timeshare Program Owner can Terminate their timeshare program/interest themselves for free ! You don't need a third party to pay out the wazoo, you just need the knowledge. I have the knowledge for anyone who would like to know.
As the saying goes, 'how about them apples'.

I believe we here know that already. Just stop paying the MF and send them a letter offering a deed back. However, there is nothing that stops them reporting a balance to the credit bureau if you were financing the purchase. Of course, you can always contest it with that bureau but there is no specific mechanism of removal. In reality, even a non-timeshare related error can sometimes be hard to remove from your credit report.
In the absence of a financing, the developer or HOA will eventually either accept the deed back or initiate a foreclosure.
 
The question is though, if you take the high paying jobs like attorneys and lawyers out of the averages, how does the college graduate number line up with the non college graduate earnings over the course of a career? Outliers can make a big swing when it comes to averages.
AI suggests
While the available research doesn't provide specific data that excludes high-paying professions like attorneys and doctors from college graduate earnings averages, the general trends still suggest college graduates would maintain an earnings advantage, though the gap would likely be smaller.

Current Overall Earnings Gap​

Based on current data, college graduates earn 31-37% more than non-college graduates overall. The typical college graduate earns approximately $1.19 million over their lifetime, which is more than twice the lifetime earnings of high school graduates. Bachelor's degree holders have median annual earnings of $56,700, compared to significantly lower wages for those with only high school education.

Impact of Excluding High-Paying Professions​

While specific data excluding lawyers and attorneys isn't available, removing these high-earning professions would likely reduce the earnings premium for college graduates, but several factors suggest the advantage would persist:

  • Broader access to skilled professions: College graduates have access to a wide range of higher-paying fields beyond law, including engineering, technology, healthcare, and business management
  • Career progression opportunities: Degree holders typically have better advancement prospects and earning growth over time
  • Industry access: Many industries and positions require degrees as minimum qualifications, effectively excluding non-college graduates from entire sectors

Remaining Earnings Differential​

Even without including attorneys and lawyers, college graduates would likely still earn 20-25% more than non-college graduates over their careers, based on:

  • Access to professional and technical roles
  • Better job security and lower unemployment rates
  • Enhanced earning potential through career mobility
The lifetime earnings gap would narrow but remain substantial, as the college premium extends across numerous professions beyond just the highest-paying legal careers.
The thing is - while no one currently separates the data between lawyer and doctor, that doesn't affect things like the lower earning degrees still having lower unemployment. You also have a bunch of "mid tier" fields like engineering, technology, healthcare, and business management. And as I pointed out, career progression seems to me (and AI seems to agree FWIW) to be more limited with just a high school diploma. You also don't get the networking opportunities.

I think this all is in line with my current opinion that College as a jobs training program is likely to leave you disappointed and potentially seem like either a waste of money or inefficient. College is more like a country club that also teaches you some things. The value is probably ~80% "being in the club" so you get considered for many jobs that just flat out won't consider you without a degree, and hopefully the friends you make while there who ideally you stay friendly with so they can help you find jobs later in life as well. The 18% learning part is not in any way how to do a specific job, or specific skills in the majority of cases - it's learning critical thinking, research, how to speak and write in the "white collar world" and how to do something a bit boring, annoying, and tedious over a long period of time. 2% is probably skills that are both directly applicable to a specific job and still relevant by the time you graduate and remain relevant for long enough to really care.
 
There is some data from the Fed here that is interesting:
I wonder if "young workers" excludes the recent college graduates. Either way, they're beating by around 3% the whole group, and in line with rates near the beginning of the chart too in the early 1990s. I don't find it strange that younger workers are a bit more likely to be unemployed - less tied down so more willing to take risks, less experience so even with degrees a bit less desirable than people with experience, etc etc.
 
Impressive! Not quite 48 weeks but in the last 12 months (Oct 24 to Sept 25) I've stayed in Mariott Timeshares 230 nights, Hotels (mostly Marriott branded) 24 nights and the remainder of the time with family and friends. I don't own a home or rent an apartment at this time (have a storage unit) and have successfully rented out excess ownership to more than cover all annual fees.

Not a scam for my situation but can understand why some would say they are.
Sounds like Marriott is probably one of the easier to rent for more than MFs than the others, so if you want to take care of the tax paperwork etc then it can be something to keep in mind.
 
There is some data from the Fed here that is interesting:
One issue with this is that it just pure unemployment rates. Not if the employee is employed in their desired field of work or in the field of work they went to college for. It may not also track part-time vs. full-time employment. Meaning someone with a degree is working to make ends meet, but their degree wasn't needed to actually get the job they have.

I did find this other chart interesting. It shows labor force participation rate based on education and sex. Interesting that the number for men are within about 10 points of each other for those with high school education or higher. Women is a far bigger difference.
 
That's real impressive, you have deep knowledge and insights if all true. I'm impressed and would love to know how you do what you do. We are no longer timeshare Owners, and never plan to be again, it's your use of the system that I find intriguing.
Original timeshare purchase from Marriott in 2007 (Phuket Beach Club), then many resales since along with strategic purchases directly from Marriott to enroll a few of the resale weeks prior to 2023. This provides weeks to book directly and Abound points / II exchanges to book properties I do not own. All hotel stays booked with Bonvoy points. List of properties stayed at in the last 12 months:
1758811711390.png
 
Re-sale? You got lucky....'and I'll raise you one'. Unless you inherited it from your parents in the 1970's, I can't see you got any value on a re-sale, unless its some extradentary product? 'Excellent value' could have all sorts of meaning and interpretation?
I'm guessing the resale value is vs other ways of obtaining the accommodations.
 
One issue with this is that it just pure unemployment rates. Not if the employee is employed in their desired field of work or in the field of work they went to college for. It may not also track part-time vs. full-time employment.
Wouldn't you expect the same issues for non-college though? Why would they be more likely to be in their desired field of work or full time vs part time? Stepping back, I personally would need more data to consider it much more than a wash. I took some time off before getting my degree, and I can't say I loved the jobs I could get hired for then compared to now.
Meaning someone with a degree is working to make ends meet, but their degree wasn't needed to actually get the job they have.
This has 2 potential, very different, meanings. In the worst case, they're working at McDonalds or some job that has no training requirement or education requirement at all. In the mid case, they're working at a job that you could get without a degree but the degree gave you a leg up in hiring (for me like when I worked at "the geek squad" years ago on computers, having a degree in IT stuff helped get me hired and was used a bit to advertise to customers - like auto shops would put up certificates from mechanics etc). This is probably widely common, and we can argue where the value is - it's hard to generalize the bump some people got vs the cost of their degree across all fields etc. In the best case they get jobs that explicitly require a degree to be considered. Note not a specific degree though.

In latter 2 of these cases the specific degree wasn't necessary to get the job, but it well may have been necessary for them to get the job, by tipping them over the line to be considered.
I did find this other chart interesting. It shows labor force participation rate based on education and sex. Interesting that the number for men are within about 10 points of each other for those with high school education or higher. Women is a far bigger difference.
IDK, Women at 15.5% difference vs men at 11.1% is a 4.4% difference. I don't know if I'd consider 4.4% a "far bigger difference".
 
Re-sale? You got lucky....'and I'll raise you one'. Unless you inherited it from your parents in the 1970's, I can't see you got any value on a re-sale, unless its some extradentary product? 'Excellent value' could have all sorts of meaning and interpretation?
If you get the re-sales for a low enough cost (often can be acquired for pennies on the retail dollar or even free) they can be excellent value, as the annual Maintenance Fees are often cheaper than staying in hotels in the same area, especially during more popular times of year when hotel rates skyrocket while timeshare MFs are the same regardless of what time of year your stay is. This is even more true when considering that in timeshares you are often getting a condo-style accommodation with amenities that smaller hotel rooms do not. Retail pricing is where it's harder to see any value, unless you amoritize the purchase price in over a VERY long period of time, and even then it can be difficult depending on what you bought and/or how you use it.
 
Just went under contract for my Fractional Ownership at the Steamboat Grand in Steamboat Springs. Broke even on the "Maintenance Fees" etc vs Rental income just about every year. Used the facilities, pool, gym, indoor parking etc., every winter but never traded except once or actually stayed there except on a "Space Available" Basis.

Contract is little more than four times what I paid for it back in 2000.

Closed out my Contract with Raintree after getting full use since when I bought it resale.

I'm a little more than happy with my experiences with the Timeshare Business. And even happier with my college degrees in Engineering and Business.
 
Every few months, we get a know-it-all newbie on the forum, full of hubris and bluster and in this case, calling a long-standing TUG member stupid.

The noob has seven posts; the "stupid" member has fifty five thousand.
 
Sounds like Marriott is probably one of the easier to rent for more than MFs than the others, so if you want to take care of the tax paperwork etc then it can be something to keep in mind.
It depends what you own. My Marriott's Shadow Ridge Villages is not renting for a lot over MF's, and I reserved Presidents' week. I am pretty disappointed that only two of my one bedrooms have rented. I have the studios that haven't rented. I may have to lower my price. RW will make more money than I will.

Any rentals I get are great because I couldn't use this many deposits for 2026 after so many deposits in 2024. Still, if I cancel my ads at 90 days out, I will still have good trading power.

Sure, Hawaii rents, but it's always a gamble. Be prepared to use that week last-minute, whether yourself or through II.
 
It depends what you own. My Marriott's Shadow Ridge Villages is not renting for a lot over MF's, and I reserved Presidents' week. I am pretty disappointed that only two of my one bedrooms have rented. I have the studios that haven't rented. I may have to lower my price. RW will make more money than I will.

Any rentals I get are great because I couldn't use this many deposits for 2026 after so many deposits in 2024. Still, if I cancel my ads at 90 days out, I will still have good trading power.

Sure, Hawaii rents, but it's always a gamble. Be prepared to use that week last-minute, whether yourself or through II.
I own 2 weeks Desert Springs Villas 1 and don't actually want rent them out. I prefer to get 4 II deposits out of them but I keep getting asked if I could rent out the 1BR to this renter that I know from a one-time rental that I did several years ago. I just let this person have them at breakeven cost. I still get to deposit my studios into II and exchange back into 2BRs.
 
even happier with my college degrees in Engineering and Business.
Oh, come on. We know you spent 2% of your time in college actually learning any "skill", other than beer pong & pick-up lines.

"College is more like a country club that also teaches you some things. The value is probably ~80% "being in the club" ... The 18% learning part is not in any way how to do a specific job, or specific skills ... 2% is probably skills that are both directly applicable to a specific job and still relevant by the time you graduate"

The entire thing is bizarre (though possibly true for some degrees I don't want to even think about at some colleges I don't think about), but that "still relevant by the time you graduate". o_O
 
Oh, come on. We know you spent 2% of your time in college actually learning any "skill", other than beer pong & pick-up lines.

"College is more like a country club that also teaches you some things. The value is probably ~80% "being in the club" ... The 18% learning part is not in any way how to do a specific job, or specific skills ... 2% is probably skills that are both directly applicable to a specific job and still relevant by the time you graduate"

The entire thing is bizarre (though possibly true for some degrees I don't want to even think about at some colleges I don't think about), but that "still relevant by the time you graduate". o_O
It would seem then that 80% of the cost of college is just money down the toilet? It is money spent on nothing other than possible clout? An old boys club. If they only charged for the other 20% that really mattered, then students could come out with the skills they really need for a lot less money.
 
the cost of college
You lost me at "It would seem". You completely lost me at "the cost of college". The cost of college is the cost to pay the salaries of the profs & the admin and the cost of libraries, gardening, security, and in some colleges, the cost of expensive laboratories. Textbooks? A pittance, esp in the Digital Age.
If someone goes to a college where the profs aren't worth a damn, they should not be surprised that the money seems poorly spent.
These comments open up a whole bizarro alt-world to me. I mean, I knew/know there are colleges and college students out there where very little of import is being learned. BUT, I didn't realize people who were in that world don't understand how college students in my half of the world spent our time and what we learned.

2%?????????? If you want to claim a 20 veteran in a skilled field is 50x more productive than most new hires are, OK. That is one thing.
This whole 2% thing about how real college students getting real degrees spend their time and energy is a complete fantasy. Sour grapes or something far worse?
 
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