Is timeshare a scam?

[Chucez]

Then why do you have so many timeshares?

The builders/companies want to recoup their monies and then some, so they price the units according to that and over price the units. All the while knowing only certain weeks are truly desired/usable.

 

[x3 skier]

College should be thought of as a "Trade School". My engineering degrees were certainly the entry into a long and prosperous career. If you want to be a "professional", Business, Engineering, Science, Medical and others are trades just as much as those typically to be like Construction, Plumbing, Mechanic etc. from my perspective .

 

[RX8]

Unless you use your time in college to soak up skills like critical thinking and communication, as well as develop your creative abilities. You may have to start off in a job that does not require a degree, but you have a better chance of being noticed and doing well in the long run.

My dad, who pushed me to get a degree and I am thankful for that, always used to tell me that having a degree tells prospective employers that you have an ability to learn. I think that is why many employers require a degree even if that degree isn’t in the field that you are applying. Even if a degree isn’t required, it isn’t uncommon for companies to require a degree for promotions into positions with increasing responsibilities.

 

[TolmiePeak]

The builders/companies want to recoup their monies and then some, so they price the units according to that and over price the units. All the while knowing only certain weeks are truly desired/usable.

But if the OP thinks timeshares are a scam he wouldn't have kept acquiring new ones.

 

[WorldT]

But if the OP thinks timeshares are a scam he wouldn't have kept acquiring new ones.

He sure has acquired a couple recently and isn't planning on stopping. I think he was conducting an exercise in philosophical brain stimulation.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think the point is that developer purchases are a scam. Look how many people are trying to get out of what they bought, and they are taken in AGAIN by an exit company who scams them.

I don't think college is always a scam. I want my doctor to have a degree. Our oldest son is an engineer with a degree from School of Mines, and he has always worked in his field.

Our second son has his own business, an entrepreneurial spirit. No degree.

We have another child that is an entrepreneur. This child required investors to provide the product for the business but was highly successful. We are very proud parents. No degree for that child either. A self-made entrepreneur with a little help to get there.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Watched a bit of Archer lsat night, b/c KC vs nyg sounded like a sight for sore eyes. According to Archer, well, you decide

 

[TUGHarry]

If college is a scam, timeshare is definitely a scam. They share many similarities

1) overpromising and ideologizing
2) too expensive for what it offers
3) only a few can get the value out of what they pay
4) many people end up having a lot debt they cannot afford

I wouldn’t call timeshares a “scam,” but I think the problem is that they’re often sold like one. Sales teams tend to overpromise, gloss over maintenance fees, and push the “lifetime dream vacation” angle without explaining how ownership actually works.

That said, if you go in with your eyes open and buy resale instead of developer-direct, timeshares can absolutely deliver value. I’ve personally seen situations where people are paying pennies on the dollar for points or weeks compared to renting the same resort on Expedia. The key is:

• Do your homework on maintenance fees and point value.
• Buy where you’d actually use (or where points trade strong in RCI/HGVC).
• Never buy retail, resale is where you find the real deals

So yes, the industry has shady aspects, but for informed owners, it can be a tool rather than a trap.

 

[iftravel]

He sure has acquired a couple recently and isn't planning on stopping. I think he was conducting an exercise in philosophical brain stimulation.

I’m still leaning and haven’t graduated yet so I’m not sure if it’s a scam or not. It’s kinda scammy as it’s so addictive that you keep collecting them…

 

[Shiba]

If only a person could get a resale college education.

Bill

In my opinion, there is. If kids don't have 529's and have limited funding start their education at a junior college. After earning the associates degree transfer to a state university. State universities tuition are much cheaper. If you can live with mom and dad while going to school it will be affordable (resale pricing).

The problem is when kids have no college money saved for or by them and want to go to private universities, out of state schools or big name universities for the experience. Those schools have BIG tuition bills (developer pricing).

High schoolers can take AP classes to earn college credit while in high school or dual enroll at the local junior college while in high school and get transferable college credit when they graduate high school. Many kids are graduating high school with a high school diploma and their associates degrees. In my area dual enrolled high schoolers pay ZERO tuition at the local junior college (resale pricing).

I understand not all kids are meant to go to college, but you have to learn a skill. If you do go to college its okay to bet on yourself and take out a student loan if needed. First apply for LOTS of scholarships, get a job and get a loan for the money your short. Don't take out $200k loans for a job that only pays you $40k a year.

 

[easyrider]

High schoolers can take AP classes to earn college credit while in high school or dual enroll at the local junior college while in high school and get transferable college credit when they graduate high school. Many kids are graduating high school with a high school diploma and their associates degrees. In my area dual enrolled high schoolers pay ZERO tuition at the local junior college (resale pricing).

Good point. My daughter had her Associates Degree when she graduated High School which cost us very little. I think Running Start only covered tuition so we did have to buy books and items used for College. This seems like resale compared to the full price for the BSW and MSW.

Bill

 

[austdav]

Timeshare could fixed with one simple law from Govt. Let people with paid off timeshares out at a very low cost. (not set by the timeshare co.) There would be no reason for exit companies and there would need to be value for owning one.
Government for the people. --- DEAD
Government for companies paying to get them elected ---- Alive and very prosperous.
One could make a lot the same argument about college but i think the article was supposed to be mainly about timeshare.

 

[jp10558]

Timeshare could fixed with one simple law from Govt. Let people with paid off timeshares out at a very low cost. (not set by the timeshare co.) There would be no reason for exit companies and there would need to be value for owning one.
Government for the people. --- DEAD
Government for companies paying to get them elected ---- Alive and very prosperous.
One could make a lot the same argument about college but i think the article was supposed to be mainly about timeshare.

Although, I also wonder - we only see the three extremes reported. There's ARDA which says everything is amazing and ~85% of owners love everything about TSing. There's the occasional "investigative news reports" on the other end - TS are horrible, they prey on people, they can't ever use it and they are stuck with huge bills. The third extreme is TUG - we're the 0.01% of timeshare users and generally understand how to use them, get as much value as possible, and buy resale for pennies on the developer dollar.

Reality for the wider market is probably somewhere in the middle. Which means that there probably isn't a huge amount of pressure or support among the general populace to encourage government to do something.

I personally think the main "bad thing" is allowing the salespeople to lie during the presentations. I think what "simple" regulation might solve it would be all presentations must be recorded for later review, and if there's no recording, the retail contract is void like a recession within the first 2 years if someone goes to small claims court about it. After 2 years, there's basically no way for someone to be "completely unaware" of what they're paying and how it works, they'll have had to try and use it at least once, ideally twice. If they didn't, well, you can't solve everything. And the recording is admissible in court such that if it would count as false advertising again - recession available, and maybe damages for fraud.

Get rid of outright lies in the sales presentation and I think most of the legitimate problems go away. It also seems to me like a simpler change than some sort of weird forced change of deed laws or forced migration to trust based products for the entire industry to enable your let people out at low cost. Personally I'd prefer a rule that all deeds have the same benefits - no stripping of trades / points / whatever on resale.

 

[dioxide45]

imeshare could fixed with one simple law from Govt. Let people with paid off timeshares out at a very low cost. (not set by the timeshare co.)

It isn't one simple law, it is possibly 50. One for each state and each state law will mostly likely be different.

 

[easyrider]

I am 100% certain that I'm going up, not down!

Me too !!!

Bill

 

[Pair-A-Dice]

If college is a scam, timeshare is definitely a scam. They share many similarities

1) overpromising and ideologizing
2) too expensive for what it offers
3) only a few can get the value out of what they pay
4) many people end up having a lot debt they cannot afford

I would not say college or timeshares are scams. Most Tuggers love our timeshares. A college degree is a great way to earn extra income throughout your life; these are proven statistics. Are timeshare presentations a scam, yes in most cases. I love my timeshare.

 

[dioxide45]

I would not say college or timeshares are scams. Most Tuggers love our timeshares. A college degree is a great way to earn extra income throughout your life; these are proven statistics. Are timeshare presentations a scam, yes in most cases. I love my timeshare.

The problem with those college statistics is that they are broad averages and can be misleading. You have doctors and lawyers in those numbers showing that college graduates make more money over the course of a career. Then you have debt and interest on debt that can wipe out some of that extra earned money. Let's not get started on if student loans are a scam. Many college graduates have high unemployment rates after graduation or are in jobs that simply don't require a college degree.

 

[jp10558]

The problem with those college statistics is that they are broad averages and can be misleading. You have doctors and lawyers in those numbers showing that college graduates make more money over the course of a career. Then you have debt and interest on debt that can wipe out some of that extra earned money. Let's not get started on if student loans are a scam. Many college graduates have high unemployment rates after graduation or are in jobs that simply don't require a college degree.

Sure, but the those without a college degree also have similar sets of problems, though I guess without the student loan debt. That said, I've seen somewhat high debt loads for non college jobs (though many have some trade school you have to do which costs money too) - mechanics have to buy a lot of tools, truck drivers need a truck or pay somewhat obscene rental rates, anyone starting a business has start up costs and likely business loans. Many of the "no debt" jobs are not that high paying either so I question their desirability even if getting one of those is without student loans is better than getting one with loans. The reason I talk about starting a business is from what I hear, most of these jobs at someone elses business tend to be kinda dead end and not a lot above minimum wage - all the "real money" people are at least running themselves as a business if not trying to grow a team.

At the end of the day, just like TS you want to know what you're getting in to - and at least with college I think there's a lot more widespread public knowledge and debate about whats worthwhile or not.

 

[montygz]

The problem with those college statistics is that they are broad averages and can be misleading. You have doctors and lawyers in those numbers showing that college graduates make more money over the course of a career. Then you have debt and interest on debt that can wipe out some of that extra earned money. Let's not get started on if student loans are a scam. Many college graduates have high unemployment rates after graduation or are in jobs that simply don't require a college degree.

There is some data from the Fed here that is interesting:

The Labor Market for Recent College Graduates

Data on employment outcomes for new graduates and young workers.

www.newyorkfed.org

 

[dioxide45]

Sure, but the those without a college degree also have similar sets of problems, though I guess without the student loan debt. That said, I've seen somewhat high debt loads for non college jobs (though many have some trade school you have to do which costs money too) - mechanics have to buy a lot of tools, truck drivers need a truck or pay somewhat obscene rental rates, anyone starting a business has start up costs and likely business loans. Many of the "no debt" jobs are not that high paying either so I question their desirability even if getting one of those is without student loans is better than getting one with loans. The reason I talk about starting a business is from what I hear, most of these jobs at someone elses business tend to be kinda dead end and not a lot above minimum wage - all the "real money" people are at least running themselves as a business if not trying to grow a team.

At the end of the day, just like TS you want to know what you're getting in to - and at least with college I think there's a lot more widespread public knowledge and debate about whats worthwhile or not.

The question is though, if you take the high paying jobs like attorneys and lawyers out of the averages, how does the college graduate number line up with the non college graduate earnings over the course of a career? Outliers can make a big swing when it comes to averages.

 

[heathpack]

The scam part is the difficulty in parting with the TS when it becomes a burden.

This IMO is the #1 overlooked vital thing: never obtain a timeshare that lacks an exit strategy.

 

[joestein]

If you go into a timeshare with your eyes open, understanding what you are paying, what benefits you get and how you need to use it, it is not a scam.

However, when you buy a TS after a pressured sales pitch and you dont really understand what you bought, how to use it or its real value, then yes, it is a scam.

I bought Fairfield Resorts(now Wyndham) after learning all about it on TUG. I had 161K pts annually and 132K EOY. My total purchase for both were around $4K between 2005 - 2008. And of course I paid the maintenance each year.

However, we took 2 great vacations each year when the kids were young, we learned out to stretch out our points (depositing off season studios and getting red season 2-bedrooms in RCI) - we were able to get units for friends and family.

As we got older, we stopped wanted to stay at timeshares and start doing other things. - so we gave them back to Wyndham - right before COVID. I feel I got more than my money's worth.

 

[vol_90]

Nope, not a scam. Just a variety of systems you have to learn how to use and manage. I am in my timeshares about 48 weeks out of the year.

Impressive! Not quite 48 weeks but in the last 12 months (Oct 24 to Sept 25) I've stayed in Mariott Timeshares 230 nights, Hotels (mostly Marriott branded) 24 nights and the remainder of the time with family and friends. I don't own a home or rent an apartment at this time (have a storage unit) and have successfully rented out excess ownership to more than cover all annual fees.

Not a scam for my situation but can understand why some would say they are.

 

[Farragut 520]

If you think college (education) is a costly scam, try ignorance. Education is a tool. If you don't know how to use the tool, it can be costly.

Timeshare can save travelers money, but timeshare is an unwelcome cost for non-travelers. That's why they are marketed to people who are already at a resort. That's also the reason for the cooling off period when new buyers (if they're smart) can read all about what they were sold, and stop the sale at no cost or penalty. Again, it comes down to using that education tool to read all available information you are presented with.

The scam part is the difficulty in parting with the TS when it becomes a burden. When I get to be Emperor, I'll proclaim an open marketplace not unlike a used car market for people to sell and buy their vacation ownerships.

Jim

Not exactly Jim. It almost feels like you work in the industry.

Let me clarify for those that read this thread and think the answer above was a short, but comprehensive answer, it is not. Why? Because the timeshare sales presentation is 'this price is only for this visit' - High pressure tactic number one, scarcity sales pressure., 2) Use of the phrase, a truly stupid phrase 'cooling off' period tells me you're defending the industry. Why would any honest, fair, transparent exchange, meaning product and sale need something called a 'cooling off' period, such stupid pedestrian language. To follow up with 'read all about it', further tells me you are part of the timeshare industry problem.
Our family owned two Programs, the good one while it was still a gem was the Marriot Grande Vista on International Dr. Orlando. 2003-2015- until the family started to head off to college. Then Marriot did a Deed back and feel WAY SHORT of the investment is was verbally declared it was by the sale staff. That was in part our fault, we heard investment and thought $$, what was the jewel of an investment was the memories, so for that we are eternally grateful.

The other, purchased 2006 was a piece of Garbage. They both had one thing in common that Jim overlooks in his 'read all about it' in his contribution. 'Read all about it' is a mini-course in General Law/Statures/Act and Contract Law.
In order to truly understand the purchase a person needs to time to read the timeshare program's 'Instrument/Declaration' and the State Law governing the purchase, obligations and Termination of a Timeshare when it's no longer useful or wanted.
That cannot be accomplished in a 'cooling off' period unless someone then takes off a week from work to learn everything I just mentioned above OR hire an attorney who actually knows what is behind the scenes, at the inexpensive cost for a contract review, state Law review and Instrument review. So take on 2k or more to hire that legal professional AND that's IF you can get them to provide that service in the 'cooling off' period (a truly stupid term). The proper term is called the Contract Recission Period, or in pedestrian language, 'a come to your senses or clarity' period.
Finally, what further tells me this author is in the industry, is the closing claim, 'the difficulty with parting with a Timeshare when it becomes a burden'.

Actually, ITS NOT ! An OWNER CAN simply GIVE IT BACK TO THEM, (that's my use of pedestrian language). But that's the big secret the Timeshare industry doesn't want out. They want you to pay coming in the front door and pay leaving the back door.
You don't have to, when you know what I know. I gave my second crappy Timeshare back, because I put in the 7 months to figure out the game that Timeshare industry doesn't want me to speak about! Any timeshare Program Owner can Terminate their timeshare program/interest themselves for free ! You don't need a third party to pay out the wazoo, you just need the knowledge. I have the knowledge for anyone who would like to know.
As the saying goes, 'how about them apples'.

 

[Farragut 520]

If college is a scam, timeshare is definitely a scam. They share many similarities

1) overpromising and ideologizing
2) too expensive for what it offers
3) only a few can get the value out of what they pay
4) many people end up having a lot debt they cannot afford

A timeshare product if properly understand has its benefits. Our family greatly benefited from one Program we Owned. A second Program we bought was a piece of garbage. There is no universal one statement fits all. But I will put my hand on the scale of SCAM, in that the timeshare industry operates through deceit and lies by omission. It's called Engineered Consent-Look up Edward Bernays, and you'll see the timeshare industry uses that playbook.
Should anyone in the Marriot or other high end reputable position ever read this post, I have a message for you. You are missing a Gigantic Opportunity to fully own the entire industry, but you have one massive blind spot that's you've not yet realized. I do, so you may reach out for that consultation when you're ready to step up you game!