Is it inconsiderate to upgrade your exchange when you can easily use a smaller Unit?

[jhac007]

The only reason I like it when we get a 2 bedroom is the extra bathroom. It seems that a lot of the older resorts have 1 bedroom units with 2 bathrooms but not so much now.

Lynn

EXACTLY.......my reasoning also. Many times the bathroom is on the smaller side and my wife (honestly) needs lots of space. The trip goes a lot smoother if we have separate bathrooms. When the infrequent occassion arises that we have to get a hotel room it usually turns out to be a disaster! At home there are sufficient bathrooms even when there is company present. The resorts always like to say it's "your home away from home".......well that's why I got involved in timesharing.

Jim

 

[MichaelColey]

I think it's fine. A larger unit usually has a nicer kitchen and nicer living area, more plates and stuff (have to run the dishwasher less often), and you would also have more flexibility to invite others or entertain.

 

[Larry]

If they give me a 2BR I'm taking it!!!!

I always will take a 2BR over a 1BR or studio for several reasons;

1) As others have indicated I prefer getting 2BR's over 1BR because I want a second bathroom. Much easier getting ready in the morning or going out for dinner with a second bathroom.

2) I have stayed at several Mexican resorts and Caribbean resorts were the 2BR units have the best ocean views and many times they are Ocean front, where the studios and 1BR units have less desirable views or almost no views to speak of.

I once stayed in a 2BR oceanfront unit and loved it. I also saw the 1BR
0ceanfront unit and would have hated it. Why? The 2BR had ocean front views from both the LR and Master BR and had a huge balcony extending in front of both LR and MBR. The 1BR had 1/2 of the square footage and Bedroom was in the back of the unit facing a catwalk where I'm sure you could hear anyone walking by at night. The Ocean view was only from the LR with a balcony half the size of the 2BR.

2) Many resorts have much larger full kitchens, balconies dining areas etc. than studio or 1BR units. Washers and dryers and even diswashers are sometimes only included in 2BR units at some resorts that I have stayed at.

3) Studio's and even 1BR units sometimes only have one TV and my wife and I almost never watch the same thing. One time when we went to St. Lucia my wife wasn't feeling well and went to bed and I watched a Giants playoff game in a downstairs second BR that I used as my den and watched the game without disturbing my wife.

4) Second BR can be used to store luggage as someone else indicated.

5) I hate having to make my own bed and clean my timeshare on vacation and unlike many tuggers prefer timeshares with daily maid service.

When we don't get daily maid service. having a second BR let's me switch BR's a couple of times during the week, giving me a newly made bed with fresh clean sheets until I at least get a midweek cleaning.

6) Taking family and friends is not even a consideration for me unless I can at least have a 2BR unit and when I get one with a studio or a 1BR so much the better.

If I can get an upgrade I'm taking it every time

 

[Beefnot]

I appreciate reading the diversity of responses. There were a couple folks who possess an internal mechanism that keeps them from exercising "exchange gluttony", and I applaud them for that. I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the utility of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the ethics of doing so under specific circumstances. A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response. In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service. Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance.

Honestly, I don't have an active beef with this self-serving, consumerist approach to exchanging. But I do see a certain nobility to the self-restraint exercised by some, whether it stems from a sense of civic responsibility or puritanical guilt toward over-consumption. A few more thoughts:

(a) I agree that there are a million different good reasons for up-trading. I might well do so if given the opportunity.

(b) Although it would definitely be noble for a 2BR owner to exchange down for a 1BR and be compensated with an AC if s/he does not require that extra bedroom for the planned trip, it is difficult to begrudge someone a like-for-like exchange, regardless of the size of their traveling party. They own a 2BR, pay MF on a 2BR, and are entitled to a 2BR in exchange.

(c) In areas that are over-supplied, under-demanded, or off-season, the ethics of up-trading are moot for the most part. Their is no one who is harmed in these scenarios. Everyone gets the vacation they want, and no one is left out.

(d) Provided that it is clear that I am primarily only debating scenarios where demand is expected to outstrip supply, I view this topic somewhat similar to how I feel about the procurement of supplies in times of emergency. Although a particular store may permit me to hoard more batteries and water than I could ever personally use for the emergency at hand, it's probably not the most responsible thing for me to do given that my actions may well create shortages for those who come after me. On the other hand, it may be more effective for that store to either ration those supplies or charge a premium for quantities that exceed some certain amount, thereby forcibly resolving that ethical dilemma for me. Either the consumer cannot have above a certain amount or they will need to pay more above a certain amount, forcing the consumer to calculate their own marginal utility of procuring more than they need.

With respect to exchanges, If I have a ST/1BR and am systematically able to secure a 2BR, I would be an advocate that the system be modified to disincentivize that practice or manipulate behavior (e.g, charge premiums for up-trades above 1BR for certain resorts, locations, and/or time periods) if that would help to more "equitably" allocate inventory among the customer base. If the exchange companies tacked on some sort of premium for up-trading bedrooms, I would not be opposed to it...although my TUG log-on might immediately stop working if that were to happen.

 

[zcrider]

I use to take only the size unit we needed but, in the land of lock-off units, neighbor noise could be a problem. It seemed we always got someone who was loud and inconsiderate.

First, we stopped taking studio units. We had elderly neighbors in Vegas once who desperately needed to turn up their hearing aids. We wanted to sleep in, they woke up with the chickens and announced their morning awakening loud enough for the entire south end of Vegas to hear them. We were never able to sleep past 06:00 AM and were often awakened by their shouting to each other (in what was normal conversation) by 05:00 AM. We've also been next door to the cabinet slammers when we were in a studio unit and loud all night TV watchers when we were in the one bedroom section of a 2 bedroom lock-out unit.

So we started taking mostly two bedroom units. We do take the occasional one bedroom unit depending on the resort and the unit layout. We once thought that thinking backfired on us at Westgate Branson Woods when we heard some EXTREMELY noisy neighbors in the studio lock-off section of a two bedroom unit when we had accepted only the one bedroom side. Fortunately, they were suppose to have been in a two bedroom unit and has been miss-assigned by the front desk. The woman just kept trying over and over to open our door (think 15 to 20 times) and complaining loudly that her key wouldn't work rather than go back to the front desk. You should have seen the look in her eyes when I opened the front door and asked if I could help her.

The smallest unit we'll take is a one bedroom and we much prefer to two bedroom unit whenever we can get it. We never accept a studio unit. Even in our points based systems where we own I much prefer to spend the points and take a two bedroom unit rather than stretch our points and take studio units or one bedroom units.

It's been through the inconsideration of others that we take larger units than we need, just to give us a little more peace of mind that our chances of having a quite vacation vs dealing with some inconsiderate person who thinks everyone likes noise (TV, radio, banging cabinets or just plain talking loud enough for the astronauts to hear as the circle the planet).

Of course I can't do anything about the thundering heard of elephants who sometimes occupy the unit directly above us other than be more selective about the resorts we'll stay at. I try to select resorts that are concrete construction vs wood construtcion. Concrete flooring offers better insultation from floor stompers than does wood construction buildings. There are a couple of resorts in Branson I refuse to accept due (Westgate Branson Woods and Palace View South) because we can hear every footstep above us and, those below us can probably hear us every time we walk across the floor. We even purchased a penthouse unit once, just to make sure we were always on the top floor of a resort we liked.

There is a very easy solution to this, take a white noise machine with you. I always do and have never been disturbed once by any neighbors. Marsona makes the best one I have tried and they have a small travel size for about $80 (Wal-mart.com) it will drown out everything else even the heard of elephants above you. Just remember to adjust the sliders on the bottom until it is the pitch and volume you like best. I am very sensitive to the type of white noise, that is why I like this brand it is adjustable! The version for the house ($50) is the very best sound, but does NOT travel well as getting tossed around will ruin it.

 

[vacationhopeful]

.... I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the utility of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the ethics of doing so under specific circumstances. A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response. In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service. Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance....

I hope you understand that "personal space" to feel relaxed is not un-civic or self-service. Some people can tolerate a person speaking to them within 4 to 6 inches of their face; others will, without thought, step back a pace or two, for more personal space. If the person closes the space again, the other will definitely terminate the interaction and flee (unless it is a police officier or their employer).

 

[AwayWeGo]

You're Kidding, Right ?

Is it inconsiderate to upgrade your exchange when you can easily use a smaller Unit?

Shux, whatever's being offered that I care to snag is OK to snag, period.

Mox nix the size or season or location.

If it's available & I want it and I'm willing to pay the points or money or TPUs, etc., that it takes to get it, then that's nobody's business but mine & the people handling the reservation.

Full Disclosure: We checked in last night into a Gold Crown 2BR unit that we reserved on sale last fall. We could have reserved 1BR at the same resort at the same price, but we did not think twice about snagging the 2BR unit. January before last we snagged back to back 3BR units at 2 outstanding Orlando timeshares -- same points & same exchange fee as it would have been for smaller units. Other than acting quick to get'm while they were still there, we likewise did not think twice. In all 3 examples, other people joined us during all or parts of the times we had reserved the more spacious units.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Sandy VDH]

I never know who or who will not travel with us. So I often take the largest unit that is offered to me, for the same price and trade. Now with TPUs I may more likely take the size I think I need.

However via Wyndham bookings, with short notice bookings, I am entitled to a complimentary upgrade if available. So often I take it. Some times I am going to that resorts expressly to see a certain unit type or configuration. Sometimes it is the only unit available.

I don't feel bad. Neither should you.

 

[vckempson]

I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the utility of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the ethics of doing so under specific circumstances. A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response. In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service. Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance.

:

Let's see, I have a big 4 bdrm house, and I mean BIG. It's just me and my wife that live here. "Dang, that's unethical. I need to downsize so that some more deserving people, someone with 6 kids can make use of my house."

That's absurd. If I like having having more space in a 2 bdrm TS, for whatever reason, that's my business.

There are no ethics involved here. "Civic responsibility?" Give me a break. It's a business transaction, and certainly not one to be compared to emergency supplies. But now that you mention it, I need 19 lanterns to light my house when the electricity goes out. Let's see, that's 4 batteries per lantern or 76 D batteries. "I'll take all you have left.":hysterical: "Just kidding, a pack of 8 will do."

 

[vacationhopeful]

Let's see, I have a big 4 bdrm house, and I mean BIG. It's just me and my wife that live here.

Cullen, I wrote almost the exact same words about my 5 bdr house on almost 4 acres of ground, with a 23 ft long run of kitchen cabinets on 1 wall with eatin space for 8, and a dining room which seats 22+ persons. And I live in a part of the state where my neighbors' lots are only 72 feet wide. Yes, a good 5' chain link fence makes them and their kids better neighbors.

And I live alone. My personal space needs have always been more as I grew up in a family of 5 children with our parents, 8 cats and a dog.

 

[SueDonJ]

I appreciate reading the diversity of responses. There were a couple folks who possess an internal mechanism that keeps them from exercising "exchange gluttony", and I applaud them for that. I did notice that a number of folks' reasoning revolves around the utility of booking 2BRs over 1BRs without addressing the ethics of doing so under specific circumstances. A few folks pulled no punches with a de facto "eff 'em" response. In either of those cases, it is evident that the underlying sentiment is one of self-service. Most do not feel any civic responsibility to care about their fellow travelers under any circumstance.

Honestly, I don't have an active beef with this self-serving, consumerist approach to exchanging. But I do see a certain nobility to the self-restraint exercised by some, whether it stems from a sense of civic responsibility or puritanical guilt toward over-consumption. A few more thoughts:

(a) I agree that there are a million different good reasons for up-trading. I might well do so if given the opportunity.

(b) Although it would definitely be noble for a 2BR owner to exchange down for a 1BR and be compensated with an AC if s/he does not require that extra bedroom for the planned trip, it is difficult to begrudge someone a like-for-like exchange, regardless of the size of their traveling party. They own a 2BR, pay MF on a 2BR, and are entitled to a 2BR in exchange.

(c) In areas that are over-supplied, under-demanded, or off-season, the ethics of up-trading are moot for the most part. Their is no one who is harmed in these scenarios. Everyone gets the vacation they want, and no one is left out.

(d) Provided that it is clear that I am primarily only debating scenarios where demand is expected to outstrip supply, I view this topic somewhat similar to how I feel about the procurement of supplies in times of emergency. Although a particular store may permit me to hoard more batteries and water than I could ever personally use for the emergency at hand, it's probably not the most responsible thing for me to do given that my actions may well create shortages for those who come after me. On the other hand, it may be more effective for that store to either ration those supplies or charge a premium for quantities that exceed some certain amount, thereby forcibly resolving that ethical dilemma for me. Either the consumer cannot have above a certain amount or they will need to pay more above a certain amount, forcing the consumer to calculate their own marginal utility of procuring more than they need.

With respect to exchanges, If I have a ST/1BR and am systematically able to secure a 2BR, I would be an advocate that the system be modified to disincentivize that practice or manipulate behavior (e.g, charge premiums for up-trades above 1BR for certain resorts, locations, and/or time periods) if that would help to more "equitably" allocate inventory among the customer base. If the exchange companies tacked on some sort of premium for up-trading bedrooms, I would not be opposed to it...although my TUG log-on might immediately stop working if that were to happen.

I had to stop there with the bolding, the stuff was getting to deep. But comparing uptrading a timeshare exchange to taking more than the fair share of what's needed for you and your fellow citizens to survive a civic emergency?! Good gravy!

You've got to be kidding. This is timesharing! The reason most of us got into timesharing as a way to vacation is because the facilities usually give us more space than a hotel room to spread out and relax and rejuvenate!

I will just never understand the folks who insist on putting morality clauses into timesharing. Never. Even though apparently, my never settling for a studio when a 1BR or larger is available puts me squarely in the "eff you all" group. And apparently, that means I need to be taught a morality lesson. I was a pretty good student, respectful of my teachers and attentive to the material. But this is one lesson I'm going to flunk because I'm taking a seat in the back row and spending the hour writing silly notes to all the others who are as selfish as me.

 

[SueDonJ]

Cullen, I wrote almost the exact same words about my 5 bdr house on almost 4 acres of ground, with a 23 ft long run of kitchen cabinets on 1 wall with eatin space for 8, and a dining room which seats 22+ persons. And I live in a part of the state where my neighbors' lots are only 72 feet wide. Yes, a good 5' chain link fence makes them and their kids better neighbors.

And I live alone. My personal space needs have always been more as I grew up in a family of 5 children with our parents, 8 cats and a dog.

Interesting point. I grew up in a 5BR home with 2 parents, a grandfather, 10 siblings and various dogs, cats, chameleons, guinea pigs, birds, etc. Don grew up in a 4BR home with 2 parents, 6 siblings and at least one dog at any given time.

No wonder we're gluttonous selfish timesharing pigs.

 

[Beefnot]

I hope you understand that "personal space" to feel relaxed is not un-civic or self-service.

I quite understand that having extra space to store suitcases, or having an extra bathroom, or whatever else helps one to be more relaxed because it is one less stress. Not debating that. If you're suggesting that someone would elect not to travel and/or not enjoy their vacation because they were confined to 1br, I reject that assertion.

Relatively speaking, having more space is definitely more desirable, of course, the civic-mindedness comes into play when, faced with scarcity, do we place our marginal utility of having The extra space above the requisite utility of another theoretical family. Now, human nature being what it is, if that theoretical family instead became one's kids or close friends, we would then see how quickly a 1br becomes quite satisfactory for one's needs. Precisely because we don't have any connection to this theoretical family, or no assurance that this unit would not be hoarded by some other goomba, we tend to elevate our own marginal utility. This is very analogous to how people operate during times of scarcity if left to their own devices,

The only "remedy" to human nature is through regulation or market mechanisms. Regulation, e.g., prohibition of renting exchanges; Market mechanisms, e.g., charging an extra exchange fee to upgrade a previously confirmed exchange. A scarcity restriction or premium would be one more mechanism that exchange companies to employ that might improve overall public utility (and perhaps their bottom lines if implemented correctly), at the expense of certain individuals' personal utility.

 

[Beefnot]

Even though apparently, my never settling for a studio when a 1BR or larger is available puts me squarely in the "eff you all" group.

I put studios and 1BRs in the same camp. I agree, this is timesharing, and there should be some sort of "entitlement" to a 1br if one so desires. But there should be an entitlement to a 2br also...for a premium

 

[Beefnot]

If it cost an extra $99 to trade that 1br to a 2br in San Diego during spring break, folks would think longer and harder about how bad they need an extra bedroom. Economics can engineer behavior that human nature typically does not.

 

[Larry]

Why are some just talking about upgrading????

Relatively speaking, having more space is definitely more desirable, of course, the civic-mindedness comes into play when, faced with scarcity, personal utility.

OK so if civic mindedness comes into play when, faced with scarcity.

So why are we just talking about upgrading for space??? I own prime 1BR and studio weeks that sleep 4 to 5 people during Xmas week, President's week, Thanksgiving week and Easter week in the Caribbean.

Using your logic someone who is retired who would be very comfortable for two in one of my units at any time of the year is not being civic minded because someone with children who have school vacation would be more deserving during this time period??

I am depositing a prime week and that is why I have seen larger units with my studio or 1BR and I am taking it every time for all of the reason's previously mentioned in my prior post or just because I want it and I can get it.

 

[vckempson]

I quite understand that having extra space to store suitcases, or having an extra bathroom, or whatever else helps one to be more relaxed because it is one less stress. Not debating that. If you're suggesting that someone would elect not to travel and/or not enjoy their vacation because they were confined to 1br, I reject that assertion.
.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Who the heck are you to say what's enjoyable or livable for me. You are way off base and don't get to decide what's acceptible or not for others. Most of us now find hotel rooms uncomfortable after having TS's, though in truth there is nothing wrong with them. Our current luxuries soon become necessities. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Our daughter lives in Arlington VA. When we go to visit we stay at the Wyndham at Alexandria. They have 1 bdrms (612 sq ft) and 1 bdrm deluxe (850 sq ft). I've stayed in both. I did not enjoy my stay in the smaller unit. It felt cramped and somewhat claustrophobic to me. I will not return if the smaller unit is all that is available. I categorically reject the smaller unit, and will not return to one! And as a result of that experience, we booked a 2 bdrm for our San Anonio trip so that we'll have more elbow room. Yes, I admit it, I'm a "self serving consumerist", lacking in that "certain nobility to self restraint".

The only "remedy" to human nature is through regulation or market mechanisms. Regulation, e.g., prohibition of renting exchanges; Market mechanisms, e.g., charging an extra exchange fee to upgrade a previously confirmed exchange. A scarcity restriction or premium would be one more mechanism that exchange companies to employ that might improve overall public utility (and perhaps their bottom lines if implemented correctly), at the expense of certain individuals' personal utility.

I know, I know. We common citizens don't have the wherewithal to make proper, good decisions for the well being of humanity. With a scarcity of resources, we need to let some higher authority figure it all out for us. Karl Marx felt that way too.

 

[SueDonJ]

(passed from the back row)

"Hey Vicki, it's just me and Don at our 3BR next week. Are your suitcases up for a week away? -Susan
PS Black-market gasmasks at Fifth and A this afternoon at 4 - be there or be square."

 

[vacationhopeful]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Who the heck are you to say what's enjoyable or livable for me. You are way off base and don't get to decide what's acceptible or not for others. .... We common citizens don't have the wherewithal to make proper, good decisions for the well being of humanity. With a scarcity of resources, we need to let some higher authority figure it all out for us. Karl Marx felt that way too.

+1 from me on your comments, Cullen!

Karl Marx's governing style certainly didn't translate to the masses very well did it? When did that tumble into rubble, 1989?


As for life being all fair and equal, does that play out in your job, too? Afterall, your bosses then should pay you a fixed amount needed to cover your dependants basic needs (as they see fit) based on the number of dependants verses (instead of) YOUR JOB performance, skill, education, knowledge, passion, likes, etc.

 

[dwojo]

If we do not know the resort we are exchanging to my wife and I get at least a 2 bedroom. We learned from a few exchanges into 1 bedrooms that should have been classified as studio or hotel room not 1 bedroom.

 

[SueDonJ]

I put studios and 1BRs in the same camp. I agree, this is timesharing, and there should be some sort of "entitlement" to a 1br if one so desires. But there should be an entitlement to a 2br also...for a premium

I paid my premium for 2- and 3-BR units in the purchase price, darn tootin' I'm entitled to them for home usage OR in a like-for-like exchange! And you're (conveniently?) forgetting that in some Point systems, you do pay a premium for the extra bedrooms you choose in an exchange.

 

[donnaval]

I put studios and 1BRs in the same camp. I agree, this is timesharing, and there should be some sort of "entitlement" to a 1br if one so desires.

Whew, so then according to the arbiter of ethical timesharing, we're not socialyl irresponsible jerks if we use a 1-br instead of a studio, even though there's a family of four out there who can't get into the resort - we're only ignorant space hogs if we go above what beefnot feels we're entitled to use. And if a 2-br is all that is available, I guess we should forget about it - no vacation for us! There MIGHT be a bigger family who wants it.

This whole premise just makes me :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Where's my protest sign? I'm gonna OCCUPY 2-br units!

 

[DeniseM]

Based on Beefnot's theory of ethical consumer choices:

If I'm at Walmart and there is only one jumbo pack of TP left, I should buy a 4 pack and leave the jumbo pack for the family with 4 kids pushing the cart behind me.

If I'm being seated in a restaurant and I'm offered the table for 2, or a larger booth, I should take the table for 2.

If I'm picking up my rental car and I can get a free upgrade to a mid-size, I should take the economy car anyway.

Right?

 

[Beefnot]

Who the heck are you to say what's enjoyable or livable for me. I categorically reject the smaller unit, and will not return to one!

I cannot tell you what is enjoyable, but I will call BS on any assertion that a 1br is not enjoyable. The size of the 1br Is a more believable argument.

I know, I know. We common citizens don't have the wherewithal to make proper, good decisions for the well being of humanity. With a scarcity of resources, we need to let some higher authority figure it all out for us. Karl Marx felt that way too.

Using extreme hyperbole to make a point, just like a Hitler reference, is a bit silly. Even in a capitalistic country like the U.S., there are plenty of laws and business practices that exist to serve the public good, and few would attack them as socialism. From a legislative perspective, limiting the powers of monopolies (including price gouging), no ability to opt out from subsidizing public school systems, police and fire services. Business practices include group health insurance (actually probably regulatory too), scarcity rationing, queuing systems for waiting in line or on the phone, among many other examples.

 

[Beefnot]

Based on Beefnot's theory of ethical consumer choices:

If I'm at Walmart and there is only one jumbo pack of TP left, I should buy a 4 pack and leave the jumbo pack for the family with 4 kids pushing the cart behind me.

If I'm being seated in a restaurant and I'm offered the table for 2, or a larger booth, I should take the table for 2.

If I'm picking up my rental car and I can get a free upgrade to a mid-size, I should take the economy car anyway.

Right?

During times of scarcity, yes.