Is all available inventory released at 13 months window?

[Dean]

We originally bought here to force us to plan a yearly trip to visit my husbands Grandmother who lived near by, we fell in love with the resort and Not to mention I found a resale for 3K way back in 2010. I need to give HHI a try at one of the Ocean front resorts, I did like it there, but we didn't stay right on the beach as it was a last minute prime summer trade. This inventory not showing available has to be a huge computer glitch or Marriott is manipulating the inventory. I know they can do that, because I've had a problem once before. I had to hold a couple of villas hostage under a cash stay and was able to force the manager find me a room under MVC weeks inventory when the computer was telling me there was none. He asked me not to tell anyone else he could do that......

Cash, points and weeks are separate inventory so one being available doesn't necessarily mean another is. Lately a lot of the resorts are requiring stays in 7 day increments as well. The reality is that we really don't know, as noted above. The other point I'll make is that the reservation system is under total MVC control without member input so they could change it tomorrow if they wanted and do so legally. Currently availability next July, 13 month release, is wide open except for the 3 BR.

 

[davidvel]

Cash, points and weeks are separate inventory so one being available doesn't necessarily mean another is. Lately a lot of the resorts are requiring stays in 7 day increments as well. The reality is that we really don't know, as noted above. The other point I'll make is that the reservation system is under total MVC control without member input so they could change it tomorrow if they wanted and do so legally. Currently availability next July, 13 month release, is wide open except for the 3 BR.

But the club should compete for available weeks inventory just like any other owner, and not internally decide how much (or which ones) they get. Of course they don't do this.

And no they cannot legally change what is set forth in the CCRs. The system must follow those governing docs, not the other way around.

 

[Dean]

But the club should compete for available weeks inventory just like any other owner, and not internally decide how much (or which ones) they get. Of course they don't do this.

And no they cannot legally change what is set forth in the CCRs. The system must follow those governing docs, not the other way around.

IIRC they have completely control over the reservation procedures unilaterally so within that area, they can change it as I understand it. The do have procedures to follow if anything is in violation of the POS but that's a minor road block IMO. There are a number of potential buckets for inventory. These will vary by resort and include at least:

1. weeks owned by members
2. DC points
3. Trust points
4. weeks owned by MVC or the HOA
5. Unsold Trust points tied to week.

On top of that members may give up their week specifically as a rental. Any points used for cash type exchange options must by definition, be used to generate cash thus as a rental. There are ways they can decide who gets what and ways they can manipulate the system in their favor while staying within the current rules.

 

[6scoops]

Cash, points and weeks are separate inventory so one being available doesn't necessarily mean another is. Lately a lot of the resorts are requiring stays in 7 day increments as well. The reality is that we really don't know, as noted above. The other point I'll make is that the reservation system is under total MVC control without member input so they could change it tomorrow if they wanted and do so legally. Currently availability next July, 13 month release, is wide open except for the 3 BR.

I agree, about the Marriott control part, but the legal part, I'm not sure about that. Can you tell me what availability looks like at he 12 months window, for 2 bedrooms at Oceana Palms under points? I find it unlikely weeks would have ZERO inventory for all gold season so far, and points has plenty of check in's available. I could see specific weeks being open in one pool or the other, but not the entire season? As a weeks owner I cannot bank my week to use next year, as points owner you can bank your points. Correct? If tons of points owners did that, I don't get where Marriott is getting a huge surge in extra points inventory for next year at the resort I own at in particular, as it is a small resort. Please correct me if I'm wrong about banking points.

 

[Dean]

I agree, about the Marriott control part, but the legal part, I'm not sure about that. Can you tell me what availability looks like at he 12 months window, for 2 bedrooms at Oceana Palms under points? I find it unlikely weeks would have ZERO inventory for all gold season so far, and points has plenty of check in's available. I could see specific weeks being open in one pool or the other, but not the entire season? As a weeks owner I cannot bank my week to use next year, as points owner you can bank your points. Correct? If tons of points owners did that, I don't get where Marriott is getting a huge surge in extra points inventory for next year at the resort I own at in particular, as it is a small resort. Please correct me if I'm wrong about banking points.

Theoretically it should be a 1 to 1 system but that looks at the entire system for the entire year or season. Specifically for Gold at Ocean Palms part of that season has already past so it's very possible that there were weeks that got unused by the owners and thus would restrict availability and could effectively make it over sold for that resort for that year and season. One of the problems there is the expanded Gold season over Ocean Pointe since there is a fair amount of discrepancy of demand between different weeks. For June and July 2021 every single day is open for points for 7 nights there. You are correct, weeks cannot be banked other than with II (or similar) but points can internally. Either way a week or it's equivalent is in play for someone else to grab, the only question is who is it available to. Of course you couldn't see the entire weeks inventory for Gold for 2021 and you wouldn't be able to see a lot of it online because you'd be limited to 12 months and under. Even calling you'd have to be doing concurrent or consecutive reservations at 13 months out.

I'm not where I can lay my hands on a POS at present and I don't have the one for Ocean Palms but IIRC the one's I've seen say something about them having complete control of reservations without input. If that were not the case they never could have changed to the 13 month reservations for weeks without a vote and it's likely the points system at mainly weeks resorts would be almost impossible.

But if there are no weeks on the weeks side and plenty of availability on the points side you may want to make a few phone calls to better understand where things stand and why.

 

[drlee]

In our experience, (MOC resort) the 50% rule is strictly enforced for the first week of a booking. I have had to use a garden view unit for the first week, because no ocean view or ocean front units remain. This can happen even on the first day of a booking window. Follow on reservations have generally been available, so our reservation will run six or seven weeks, depending on whether we utilize the lock off feature. I'm told that the 12 month window works the same, 50% available, What's not clear how that 50% inventory is comprised. (Is it by size or view or is it a total number of weeks?) Since it's not entirely clear where the inventory comes from for points, often times points reservations seem to be available, when weeks reservations are not.

 

[hcarman]

I can tell you there is something odd going on with inventory at the 11,12, and 13 month marks next year. My experience is with points but also at a gold season Florida resort. I am Presidential and tried to book 13 months out for a long weekend next summer. Nothing available for less than a one week stay at 13 month mark. So we thought it was just that week and owner’s services discovered for 3 months straight (11,12, and 13 out) there was nothing available for less than a week - yet if you booked a week there was inventory in every room type. Never happened before - totally eliminated the reason I bought supplemental points - to book less than a week at my home resort and to book at 13 out instead of 12. There are several threads where owners have talked about the same thing at other resorts next year. Owners services was so baffled they transferred me to corporate - 3 weeks later the lady supposedly looking into it has not responded. Big surprise there. So when they talk me into my “owners update” next week and want to sell points (which of course I am not buying now) this will come up - blocking three months of inventory for week or longer stays only. And this is a property that is ball park 75% trust ownership. I will have to look at availability with my week and see if it is the same issue.

 

[Dean]

I can tell you there is something odd going on with inventory at the 11,12, and 13 month marks next year. My experience is with points but also at a gold season Florida resort. I am Presidential and tried to book 13 months out for a long weekend next summer. Nothing available for less than a one week stay at 13 month mark. So we thought it was just that week and owner’s services discovered for 3 months straight (11,12, and 13 out) there was nothing available for less than a week - yet if you booked a week there was inventory in every room type. Never happened before - totally eliminated the reason I bought supplemental points - to book less than a week at my home resort and to book at 13 out instead of 12. There are several threads where owners have talked about the same thing at other resorts next year. Owners services was so baffled they transferred me to corporate - 3 weeks later the lady supposedly looking into it has not responded. Big surprise there. So when they talk me into my “owners update” next week and want to sell points (which of course I am not buying now) this will come up - blocking three months of inventory for week or longer stays only. And this is a property that is ball park 75% trust ownership. I will have to look at availability with my week and see if it is the same issue.

A lot of resorts are only available for 1 week stays next year right now. While I haven't seen any formal information on the issue, it's far too widespread not to be either a group decision or a direction from the top.

 

[csalter2]

I can tell you there is something odd going on with inventory at the 11,12, and 13 month marks next year. My experience is with points but also at a gold season Florida resort. I am Presidential and tried to book 13 months out for a long weekend next summer. Nothing available for less than a one week stay at 13 month mark. So we thought it was just that week and owner’s services discovered for 3 months straight (11,12, and 13 out) there was nothing available for less than a week - yet if you booked a week there was inventory in every room type. Never happened before - totally eliminated the reason I bought supplemental points - to book less than a week at my home resort and to book at 13 out instead of 12. There are several threads where owners have talked about the same thing at other resorts next year. Owners services was so baffled they transferred me to corporate - 3 weeks later the lady supposedly looking into it has not responded. Big surprise there. So when they talk me into my “owners update” next week and want to sell points (which of course I am not buying now) this will come up - blocking three months of inventory for week or longer stays only. And this is a property that is ball park 75% trust ownership. I will have to look at availability with my week and see if it is the same issue.

it really seems to depend on the resort with these restrictions. I booked a week with points for Grande Ocean at 13 months out for July 4th week starting on Saturday, July 3rd for 2021, but I really want a Friday check-in. I have tried to find a i day reservation, but there are none. For July as of today, there are no 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 or 7 day vacation openings. However, there is a 4 day stay one can have on July 6th. However, I can get a reservation at Barony Beach and other HHI resorts without issue for the same time period for one night or more. I’ll be interested in seeing what occurs at the 12 month mark.

 

[6scoops]

I'm sorry for the really late reply to all this, but... sure enough I called and escalated the matter and they did confirm that inventory was not being properly released for weeks owners at Oceana Palms for next year in gold season.
They went ahead and booked me the week I wanted so I didn't, pursue this much further, the excuse was a little vague and confirmed, they had only been releasing 9 units for each week so far, 9 units in the entire resort. She said a person at the actual resort was in charge of releasing inventory, and she didn't know why this was happening but she would look into remedying it. She made an excuse about them not being in the office as much, due to covid, which seemed off to me. I'm pretty sure this was no mistake, seems to me inventory is being held way way back on purpose.

 

[6scoops]

Theoretically it should be a 1 to 1 system but that looks at the entire system for the entire year or season. Specifically for Gold at Ocean Palms part of that season has already past so it's very possible that there were weeks that got unused by the owners and thus would restrict availability and could effectively make it over sold for that resort for that year and season. One of the problems there is the expanded Gold season over Ocean Pointe since there is a fair amount of discrepancy of demand between different weeks. For June and July 2021 every single day is open for points for 7 nights there. You are correct, weeks cannot be banked other than with II (or similar) but points can internally. Either way a week or it's equivalent is in play for someone else to grab, the only question is who is it available to. Of course you couldn't see the entire weeks inventory for Gold for 2021 and you wouldn't be able to see a lot of it online because you'd be limited to 12 months and under. Even calling you'd have to be doing concurrent or consecutive reservations at 13 months out.

I'm not where I can lay my hands on a POS at present and I don't have the one for Ocean Palms but IIRC the one's I've seen say something about them having complete control of reservations without input. If that were not the case they never could have changed to the 13 month reservations for weeks without a vote and it's likely the points system at mainly weeks resorts would be almost impossible.

But if there are no weeks on the weeks side and plenty of availability on the points side you may want to make a few phone calls to better understand where things stand and why.

I just posted what I found out, which is way off base.