Introducing HGV Max — Our New Membership Program (Official announcement from HGVC)

[linsj]

Since I'm in Vegas for a work project and had time on Monday, I booked an owner's update to ask about Max. Started with a 10-min. group presentation that emphasized converting club points to Honors points and buying enough points to keep 8 million Honors points in your account for all the luxury trips we'll want to take. Then the salesman I was assigned to was laser focused on buying to convert to Honors. He's top elite and converts all his points every year, which is an expensive way to use them. No thanks.

Despite telling me he spent two months in Orlando learning about the acquisition and new Max program, he couldn't answer my questions, nor did he want to. He said HGVC didn't buy all the DRI properties, only the top 150. (I don't know how many that leaves with DRI and doesn't even make sense.) He also said HGVC doesn't want everyone in the crossover program and is keeping the price high to keep the members low. Nothing about buying in for $7,000, only buying a minimum of 5,000 old points. (I still can't think in terms of the new points after increasing them 60%.) Price will go up in May on 1st or 15th--and will continue to increase. No answers, no pressure, no closer. In and out in half an hour.

 

[90_Min_Sales_Pitch]

HGV's next program name beyond Max?

Max Max (aka Max Squared) but if you spend this much money, it should be called Mad Max (!)

Two acquisitions from now, it will be called Triple Max, or Max Cubed. You have to buy into each segment separately, to unleash the 7 month Mad Max booking window.

Only Triple Max owners get access to the Thunderdome.

 

[HuskerATL]

Since I'm in Vegas for a work project and had time on Monday, I booked an owner's update to ask about Max. Started with a 10-min. group presentation that emphasized converting club points to Honors points and buying enough points to keep 8 million Honors points in your account for all the luxury trips we'll want to take. Then the salesman I was assigned to was laser focused on buying to convert to Honors. He's top elite and converts all his points every year, which is an expensive way to use them. No thanks.

Despite telling me he spent two months in Orlando learning about the acquisition and new Max program, he couldn't answer my questions, nor did he want to. He said HGVC didn't buy all the DRI properties, only the top 150. (I don't know how many that leaves with DRI and doesn't even make sense.) He also said HGVC doesn't want everyone in the crossover program and is keeping the price high to keep the members low. Nothing about buying in for $7,000, only buying a minimum of 5,000 old points. (I still can't think in terms of the new points after increasing them 60%.) Price will go up in May on 1st or 15th--and will continue to increase. No answers, no pressure, no closer. In and out in half an hour.

Funny. The $7k is in the reference guide and, if you google Diamond Resort and go to their page, https://www.diamondresorts.com/ , it is branded Hilton Grand Vacations. It don't think this is a subset of the properties. It is now HGV.

 

[Nowaker]

Well, except that Limit does not exceed Max. The upper limit for something is, in reality, the Max.

Wrong. There's is no x for which f(x) would equal lim(f(x)). Therefore, max never reaches or exceeds the limit. It's trying very hard, but never can. lim(f(x)) > max(f(x).

 

[escanoe]

So, what is big and new with Max is that an owner's update only wastes 30 minutes of your time not learning anything? Don't guess it is all bad.

Since I'm in Vegas for a work project and had time on Monday, I booked an owner's update to ask about Max. Started with a 10-min. group presentation that emphasized converting club points to Honors points and buying enough points to keep 8 million Honors points in your account for all the luxury trips we'll want to take. Then the salesman I was assigned to was laser focused on buying to convert to Honors. He's top elite and converts all his points every year, which is an expensive way to use them. No thanks.

Despite telling me he spent two months in Orlando learning about the acquisition and new Max program, he couldn't answer my questions, nor did he want to. He said HGVC didn't buy all the DRI properties, only the top 150. (I don't know how many that leaves with DRI and doesn't even make sense.) He also said HGVC doesn't want everyone in the crossover program and is keeping the price high to keep the members low. Nothing about buying in for $7,000, only buying a minimum of 5,000 old points. (I still can't think in terms of the new points after increasing them 60%.) Price will go up in May on 1st or 15th--and will continue to increase. No answers, no pressure, no closer. In and out in half an hour.

 

[brp]

Wrong. There's is no x for which f(x) would equal lim(f(x)). Therefore, max never reaches or exceeds the limit. It's trying very hard, but never can. lim(f(x)) > max(f(x).

OK, you go with that. All definitions of "limit" and "max" are quite different. Things about upper bounds and such. But you can go with what works for ya.

Cheers.

 

[GT75]

Funny. The $7k is in the reference guide and, if you google Diamond Resort and go to their page, https://www.diamondresorts.com/ , it is branded Hilton Grand Vacations. It don't think this is a subset of the properties. It is now HGV.

I know, I thought that the $7K (listed in the updated rules as HGV Max initiation fee) was one of the few items which was stated very clearly. If this doesn't mean what it says then obviously that puts the whole HGV Max program as unclear. HGV should first determine the rules before selling something on vague promises.

 

[escanoe]

This is Beta Max ..... it will do until the real Max is finalized and the rules are perfected.

Fake it until you make it.

I know, I thought that the $7K (listed in the updated rules as HGV Max initiation fee) was one of the few items which was stated very clearly. If this doesn't mean what it says then obviously that puts the whole HGV Max program as unclear. HGV should first determine the rules before selling something on vague promises.

 

[PigsDad]

Price will go up in May on 1st or 15th--and will continue to increase.

<sarcasm>
But... But... But... Over on FB groups back in March, several people were swearing up and down that prices were going up on April 1st, so they were taking their salesperson's advice and "upgrading" while the prices were still "low". And now their going up again on May 1st? Wow. Those early buyers are sooooo lucky!
</sarcasm>



Kurt

 

[pedro47]

These ts sale people lips are moving up and down so fast now and are they telling the truth.
The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[dougp26364]

We hadn’t found the Hilton timeshare sales force very helpful in our last two updates, so we stopped going. DRI had become even worse. The ONLY reason we went to the last DRI update was for the cash. We were traveling with a couple who was financially strapped and with both of us getting $300, we were able to go out for what was some really nice dinners for them. The exaggerations from the DRI sales staff exceeded what we had suffered through at our last Hilton update. It doesn’t surprise me that the combined sales force might take the lower road rather than concentrate on honesty

The lies have become so rampant and the hysteria over those lies is so high I don’t even read much on these threads and I’ve begun to avoid reading the FB groups. I’ll read what Hilton provides, but I’ll wait until it’s officially official. The one thing I will say is I’m NOT spending $7,000 to join any new program and all the fear mongering in the world by the sales staff won’t get me to budge. I’m deeded at a resort we decided we would use (or sell) if the worst that could happen ever happened. In doing this they can threaten but we won’t care.

The one opportunity they had was a couple of years ago when we wanted to move our deed from LV Blv to Elara. That’s what we wanted. What they wanted was to sell us an expensive deed with fewer point at Kingsland. She missed all the buying signs I gave her and plowed right into something I told her we’d never, ever use. Now? Maybe I’d still upgrade our deed to Elara if I felt it was affordable, but it wouldn’t be to get into MAX. I don’t have the urge to attend a presentation to hear their pitch, and if the incentive is still as lousy as it’s always been ($150 or less), I’m not inclined to sit through another BS update that all but wastes precious vacation time and annoys my wife.

 

[tk25]

I just filled out the “inquiry” form on HGVC owner website. In comment section I asked about $7000 fee for MAX conversion and if I would/could be MAX PREMIER because I have 44,800 points all resale purchased back in 2016 & 2017. Also will ask about contract conversion fee of $199/contract.

Premier is the next tier, going up to 53,999 Points. In addition to all the previous tiers’ benefits, Premier Members have:

• Access reservations to luxury homes and villas in the top vacation destinations worldwide
• $500 Open Season Credit
• Three active Loyalty Search Requests
• Four complimentary Guest certificates

Will let you know what happens and will try to get a contract with confirmatory “details” mailed to me. I’m not buying a new contract - more points, or trade in contract. Just interested in the $7000 MAX conversion With Premier status.

 

[HuskerATL]

I just filled out the “inquiry” form on HGVC owner website. In comment section I asked about $7000 fee for MAX conversion and if I would/could be MAX PREMIER because I have 44,800 points all resale purchased back in 2016 & 2017. Also will ask about contract conversion fee of $199/contract.

Premier is the next tier, going up to 53,999 Points. In addition to all the previous tiers’ benefits, Premier Members have:

• Access reservations to luxury homes and villas in the top vacation destinations worldwide
• $500 Open Season Credit
• Three active Loyalty Search Requests
• Four complimentary Guest certificates

Will let you know what happens and will try to get a contract with confirmatory “details” mailed to me. I’m not buying a new contract - more points, or trade in contract. Just interested in the $7000 MAX conversion With Premier status.

I suspect that the $7k conversion will be only for people with retail or, at least, a retail property. I also suspect that they would propose upgrading a resale to retail to get in. Lastly, I suspect that resale won't count for Elite Max similar to the current Elite program.

 

[brp]

I suspect that the $7k conversion will be only for people with retail or, at least, a retail property. I also suspect that they would propose upgrading a resale to retail to get in. Lastly, I suspect that resale won't count for Elite Max similar to the current Elite program.

Maybe they're smarter than we think and they're positioning the $7K as intentionally nebulous so that the salesweasel can to the "well, it's not officially published, but I think I can get this for you, today only, if you'll just agree to..."

Or maybe they're just disorganized. Ockham says...

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We hadn’t found the Hilton timeshare sales force very helpful in our last two updates, so we stopped going. DRI had become even worse. The ONLY reason we went to the last DRI update was for the cash. We were traveling with a couple who was financially strapped and with both of us getting $300, we were able to go out for what was some really nice dinners for them. The exaggerations from the DRI sales staff exceeded what we had suffered through at our last Hilton update. It doesn’t surprise me that the combined sales force might take the lower road rather than concentrate on honesty

The lies have become so rampant and the hysteria over those lies is so high I don’t even read much on these threads and I’ve begun to avoid reading the FB groups. I’ll read what Hilton provides, but I’ll wait until it’s officially official. The one thing I will say is I’m NOT spending $7,000 to join any new program and all the fear mongering in the world by the sales staff won’t get me to budge. I’m deeded at a resort we decided we would use (or sell) if the worst that could happen ever happened. In doing this they can threaten but we won’t care.

The one opportunity they had was a couple of years ago when we wanted to move our deed from LV Blv to Elara. That’s what we wanted. What they wanted was to sell us an expensive deed with fewer point at Kingsland. She missed all the buying signs I gave her and plowed right into something I told her we’d never, ever use. Now? Maybe I’d still upgrade our deed to Elara if I felt it was affordable, but it wouldn’t be to get into MAX. I don’t have the urge to attend a presentation to hear their pitch, and if the incentive is still as lousy as it’s always been ($150 or less), I’m not inclined to sit through another BS update that all but wastes precious vacation time and annoys my wife.

MVC is no different with their Vistana DP "soft launch" baloney. We are avoiding pure points programs altogether because rules changes and benefits devaluations come even faster.

 

[HuskerATL]

I was just on a call with HGVC about other stuff and the lady mentioned that she was just in a training about Max and commented that the Max portal will be online in August. I asked her other questions but she didn't provide any interesting info that we haven't already discussed. However though, when I asked about the $7k fee to join without buying or upgrading she commented that she was not aware of it. I told her that it is in the guidebook and a sales rep mentioned it to me but she acted like she wasn't aware of it and commented about upgrading or buying to join.

 

[Nomad420]

We hadn’t found the Hilton timeshare sales force very helpful in our last two updates, so we stopped going. DRI had become even worse. The ONLY reason we went to the last DRI update was for the cash. We were traveling with a couple who was financially strapped and with both of us getting $300, we were able to go out for what was some really nice dinners for them. The exaggerations from the DRI sales staff exceeded what we had suffered through at our last Hilton update. It doesn’t surprise me that the combined sales force might take the lower road rather than concentrate on honesty

The lies have become so rampant and the hysteria over those lies is so high I don’t even read much on these threads and I’ve begun to avoid reading the FB groups. I’ll read what Hilton provides, but I’ll wait until it’s officially official. The one thing I will say is I’m NOT spending $7,000 to join any new program and all the fear mongering in the world by the sales staff won’t get me to budge. I’m deeded at a resort we decided we would use (or sell) if the worst that could happen ever happened. In doing this they can threaten but we won’t care.

The one opportunity they had was a couple of years ago when we wanted to move our deed from LV Blv to Elara. That’s what we wanted. What they wanted was to sell us an expensive deed with fewer point at Kingsland. She missed all the buying signs I gave her and plowed right into something I told her we’d never, ever use. Now? Maybe I’d still upgrade our deed to Elara if I felt it was affordable, but it wouldn’t be to get into MAX. I don’t have the urge to attend a presentation to hear their pitch, and if the incentive is still as lousy as it’s always been ($150 or less), I’m not inclined to sit through another BS update that all but wastes precious vacation time and annoys my wife.

Thanks, you took the words right out of my mouth on all points. I have one property in the HGVC family and it is HCNY. Almost never trade out. Use it for NYC and basically that is it. I own other time shares just not HGVC. I won't touch MAX and one thing is for sure my wife will never spend another minute in a "update" again no matter what they offer. The last couple have been, well.... painful to say the least.

 

[dougp26364]

MVC is no different with their Vistana DP "soft launch" baloney. We are avoiding pure points programs altogether because rules changes and benefits devaluations come even faster.

One rather big difference. MVC hasn’t put in writing any buy in requirement of $7,000. They also haven’t put in writing that current owners must buy something new to participate in the combined program.

What sales staff has done over the last few years is spread rumors such as, you’ll need to be at a certain ownership level, you’ll need to buy something now in order to be grandfathered in and that the elite level will change and you need to level up now to be grandfathered in at that level.

Hilton, has put that $7,000 or buy something new after this date in writing. As an existing owner for 20 years, this is a little insulting, but not unexpected. What I find particularly insulting is the price tag for what I feel are rather limited benefits. Marriott also had a buy in, but in the beginning it was extremely low and affordable for owners.

Unless you own fixed week/fixed unit deeds and always use those weeks, the rules have changed for everything thing since the beginning in one way or another. Both RCI and II have made major changes to their programs over the last 20 years. Avoiding points based programs will not protect from change or devaluation

 

[CalGalTraveler]

One rather big difference. MVC hasn’t put in writing any buy in requirement of $7,000. They also haven’t put in writing that current owners must buy something new to participate in the combined program.

What sales staff has done over the last few years is spread rumors such as, you’ll need to be at a certain ownership level, you’ll need to buy something now in order to be grandfathered in and that the elite level will change and you need to level up now to be grandfathered in at that level.

Hilton, has put that $7,000 or buy something new after this date in writing. As an existing owner for 20 years, this is a little insulting, but not unexpected. What I find particularly insulting is the price tag for what I feel are rather limited benefits. Marriott also had a buy in, but in the beginning it was extremely low and affordable for owners.

Unless you own fixed week/fixed unit deeds and always use those weeks, the rules have changed for everything thing since the beginning in one way or another. Both RCI and II have made major changes to their programs over the last 20 years. Avoiding points based programs will not protect from change or devaluation

I was referring to the fact that MVC hasn't put anything in writing in this "soft launch" and people must attend a sales meeting to get info. Reps are telling people all kinds of yarns, including elite MVC DP owners who also own Vistana, that they must buy more to participate. This is causing rumors and speculation to fly. No different.

Why aren't you insulted by that?

 

[dougp26364]

I was referring to the fact that MVC hasn't put anything in writing and reps are telling people they must buy DP to participate.

You have a point. It’s that point that keeps me from making any financial decisions involving my timeshares. I want it in writing as the official rules. Until then anything can change.

So far both have put some things in writing. Hilton with their reference guide, Marriott with the points conversions they’re showing in their owner updates. Granted Marriott hasn’t published it to a website for public scrutiny, but they have been consistent enough that it’s believable this sales literature is legitimate.

Buying anything from either right now is buying on pure speculation.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@dougp26364 I agree. Best to wait and see what rolls out in writing.

What is disappointing - and this could still be speculation - is that MVC is recognizing prior retail purchases for free (or low cost) enrollment and HGVC appears to not. I am puzzled as to why HGVC is not recognizing prior resale and elites.

I am a resale Vistana owner and although I don't like it, I understand the policy. I own where I want to go so wouldn't use the program. If the DP enrollment program transferred to resale buyers like my mandatory StarOptions do, I would consider buy-in, but it appears it does not so will not buy.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

It seems to be that HGV is desperate for money. Everything they have done so far with the merger, is a grasp for more immediate revenue.

 

[dayooper]

It seems to be that HGV is desperate for money. Everything they have done so far with the merger, is a grasp for more immediate revenue.

I thought that as well. Seems like they are doing everything they can to make money right now. I think the push to start making as soon they can after the merger seems correct. The idea of they are creating rules and policies on the fly is spot on. This allows their sales weasels to see what works and what doesn’t. Almost trial by error. I think what we know about Max now (not much) very well may be different a year from now. The ambiguity of what they have put into writing on the website makes it so they can interpret the policies to fit where they will go.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It seems to be that HGV is desperate for money. Everything they have done so far with the merger, is a grasp for more immediate revenue.

Both MVC and HGV have acquisitions to pay for. The difference is that HGV must find money to upgrade all of those DRI resorts. MVC already has high quality resorts with Westin/Sheraton and Hyatt.

It is clear that DRI was not well managed. Where the extra monies from their high MF went is ???? Hopefully HGV can lend their efficiencies to DRI to help reduce their cost of resort management and use the excess for reserves to pay for upgrades.

 

[dioxide45]

It seems to be that HGV is desperate for money. Everything they have done so far with the merger, is a grasp for more immediate revenue.

HGV has a huge majority shareholder (Apollo) that is really there for just return on investment.