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Info Re Cancellations Due To Maui Fires [MERGED]

Pamplemousse

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Yes it was booked with Abound points, which is an EXCHANGE. Has nothing to do with assuming the risks of a Maui owner.
I didn’t say you were assuming the risks of a Maui owner.
I was trying to show you options to use your holding points if you used points.
Because I went through this last year when the hurricane hit Marco Island and I realized it was a small problem in the general scheme of things and found a solution.
 
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Pamplemousse

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I have an Maui reservation via II in October. What will happen to my II exchange if Marriott cancels Oct reservation?
If you don’t have eplus you can still cancel your reservation and get a replacement week.

If you are more than 60 days from check in the week will be unrestricted and good for 1 year from the day you cancel. You will need to pay a new exchange fee.

If you are less than 60 days from check in your replacement week will be subject to flexchange (manual exchange 60 days or less from check in).

You can also just click the retrade button and select from available inventory rather than getting a replacement week- you still need to pay a new exchange fee.

If you have insurance I believe you need to let MVC cancel you to collect. That was how it was last year with hurricane.

If you have eplus you can use it 24 hrs before check in- although that will be subject to flexchange (less than 60 days).

What happens if MVC cancels your II exchange and you don’t have insurance? I’m not sure… I don’t know if there is an official policy. I would guess they would give you an accommodations certificate or replacement week.
 
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SueDonJ

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For whatever it's worth: MVW's original terms for the points used for reservations affected by COVID cancellations in the very early days was the usual 60-day reservation window and expiration as of Dec31 of that Use Year. Then they implemented special Holding Accounts separate from the usual Holding Accounts to differentiate COVID-affected points, extending the allowable check-in dates to 120-days and tacking on a full year to the usual Use Year expiration dates. It wouldn't surprise me if that happens here, too, if the number of affected reservations is high and as we get into the last quarter of this year.

It was said then and it's worth repeating - they don't have an infinite supply from which they can fulfill reservation requests. Extending expiration dates puts a strain each succeeding year on the supply and they really have no choice but to eventually force an expiration date, lest they start raiding inventory that rightly belongs to owners/members using their Points in the succeeding Use Years. Some are going to lose usage but that's life in timeshares. It's been a terrible run for a while now with hurricanes, then COVID and now fires affecting so many reservations. As someone who lost HHI usage from hurricanes over a two-year span I have some sympathy for anyone whose reservations get cancelled, but I understand why it has to happen and why MVW can't simply give back full usage of all affected points.
 

pchung6

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If you are less than 60 days from check in your replacement week will be subject to flexchange (manual exchange 60 days or less from check in).

You can also just click the retrade button and select from available inventory rather than getting a replacement week- you still need to pay a new exchange fee.

If you have insurance I believe you need to let MVC cancel you to collect. That was how it was last year with hurricane.

If you have eplus you can use it 24 hrs before check in- although that will be subject to flexchange (less than 60 days).

What happens if MVC cancels your II exchange and you don’t have insurance? I’m not sure… I don’t know if there is an official policy. I would guess they would give you an accommodations certificate or replacement week.
Thank you. It’s very helpful. I’m within 61 days. So I better wait and let Marriott to cancel, and see if I can get replacement week? If I retrade now, I am only restricted to 2 months window. I have 2 trades left, so the best is to delay 4 month, which is no good. If Marriott doesn’t cancel, I can still dumping it back 2 days before, right?
 
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Pamplemousse

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It’s within 60 days.

Thank you. It’s very helpful. I’m within 61 days. So I better wait and let Marriott to cancel, and see if I can get replacement week? If I retrade now, I am only restricted to 2 months window. I have 2 trades left, so the best is to delay 4 month, which is no good.
I believe you have to use all your eplus before you cancel.

But here’s a trick-
If you use your 1st remaining eplus to book something 60 days ahead, then go ahead and use your last eplus to book 60 days ahead from that (so you book for 120 days ahead) then call and cancel more than 60 days before check in you can get an unrestricted replacement week good for one year from the date you cancel.
Yes, it’s true- Mark Delcampo confirmed.
someone else posted about it on this site or II a few years ago.
 
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RookWDW

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I don't know how points work. Can you deposit the points (or book a reservation and deposit the res) into Interval? Then buy E-Plus and buy some time?
 

Pamplemousse

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I don't know how points work. Can you deposit the points (or book a reservation and deposit the res) into Interval? Then buy E-Plus and buy some time?
No you can’t deposit holding points into II.
You can’t deposit points reservations into II.

If you have a look at the chart I linked in post 11 you can see uses for holding points.
At the time the chart was made you could use holding points to exchange into a non abound resort before they expire.

But you will also see posts at the end of that thread indicating MVC has changed the rules for holding points.
Best to chat and ask.
 

BocaBoy

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For whatever it's worth: MVW's original terms for the points used for reservations affected by COVID cancellations in the very early days was the usual 60-day reservation window and expiration as of Dec31 of that Use Year. Then they implemented special Holding Accounts separate from the usual Holding Accounts to differentiate COVID-affected points, extending the allowable check-in dates to 120-days and tacking on a full year to the usual Use Year expiration dates. It wouldn't surprise me if that happens here, too, if the number of affected reservations is high and as we get into the last quarter of this year.

It was said then and it's worth repeating - they don't have an infinite supply from which they can fulfill reservation requests. Extending expiration dates puts a strain each succeeding year on the supply and they really have no choice but to eventually force an expiration date, lest they start raiding inventory that rightly belongs to owners/members using their Points in the succeeding Use Years. Some are going to lose usage but that's life in timeshares. It's been a terrible run for a while now with hurricanes, then COVID and now fires affecting so many reservations. As someone who lost HHI usage from hurricanes over a two-year span I have some sympathy for anyone whose reservations get cancelled, but I understand why it has to happen and why MVW can't simply give back full usage of all affected points.
I understand all this, BUT they are waiving all cancellation penalties for "transient" guests. The holding account is a "penalty" in MVC's terms. As a policy matter, why treat a transient guest better than an exchange guest? Neither own at the resort in question but only the exchange guest incurs a penalty. Owners at an impacted resort assume the risks of their ownership so that is a different situation.
 

BocaBoy

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It was said then and it's worth repeating - they don't have an infinite supply from which they can fulfill reservation requests. Extending expiration dates puts a strain each succeeding year on the supply and they really have no choice but to eventually force an expiration date, lest they start raiding inventory that rightly belongs to owners/members using their Points in the succeeding Use Years. Some are going to lose usage but that's life in timeshares.
I am not suggesting extending expiration dates, only not penalizing (with a holding account) those whose reservations are canceled by MVC. If the points were put back without a holding account, I could now bank them which is a normal right and not an special extension of time to use them. If I had never booked the Maui reservation I could now bank the points. It is hard for me to see how I should be treated worse when MVC cancels than I would have been had the points reservation never been booked.
 

davidvel

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I understand all this, BUT they are waiving all cancellation penalties for "transient" guests. The holding account is a "penalty" in MVC's terms. As a policy matter, why treat a transient guest better than an exchange guest? Neither own at the resort in question but only the exchange guest incurs a penalty. Owners at an impacted resort assume the risks of their ownership so that is a different situation.
Totally different situation completely. Marriott can't provide the room for the cash paid guest and so they dont; charge them for it, fairly simple. Those are the terms and conditions. With owner week (including II trade) or points different terms apply.

The biggest difference is the cash guest now has to look for a new room that may or may not have inventory in the future. If you give unrestricted points back you have now OVERSOLD the resort, as the inventory was erased without the equivalent number of points being expended for that week.
 

dioxide45

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What is the point in offering and selling MVC trip insurance if no one wants to buy it and instead just wants to be made whole by someone else for free. These types of things are what trip insurance is for. This situation was posted about here last year regarding Crystal Shores cancellation. The owner only got back restricted Club Points. They filed a claim and were able to get reimbursed for the maintenance fee cost of the points. The Holding Account points were pulled from the owner's account when they insurance payout is made. Everyone wants to be made whole, but if that is the case, someone else is going to lose out. The trip insurance is pretty cheap, if you choose to self insure, then you bear the full costs when something goes wrong. I thought COVID taught us this, but people quickly forget....
 

dioxide45

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The biggest difference is the cash guest now has to look for a new room that may or may not have inventory in the future. If you give unrestricted points back you have now OVERSOLD the resort, as the inventory was erased without the equivalent number of points being expended for that week.
I proposed in another thread (I think it was the Vistana forum), that perhaps Marriott could offer a form of insurance that allows the owner to cancel and get full use points back regardless of when a reservation was cancelled. This would only apply to points reservations and the insurance premium would provide for the ability of the exchange company to buy inventory from what Marriott owns and controls to make up for any type of oversold situation. Marriott could also skim a profit from this. It wouldn't necessarily be an insurance product, but rather just a product kind of like II's Eplus. Just provides additional flexibility by keeping points out of Holding for a fee in the event of a cancellation for any reason. It could be prices on a per point bases.

The problem is, even with something available like I propose, there will be people asking for full point usage back (not Holding Account Points) even though they knew full well they could buy such a product...
 

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Can you guys who are impacted share how MVC handled your situation?

I have 2023 Abound points (converted from Vistana SO). I just got an email from MVC indicating that my reservation had to be canceled, our Options expire Dec. 31, 2023, we can only book 60 days out, and we cannot bank the points.

I spoke with two reps and a so called supervisor who indicated the same. I chatted with them via Facebook; and got the same ridiculous response.

Any Maui cancellations with Abound points?
 

bazzap

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What is the point in offering and selling MVC trip insurance if no one wants to buy it and instead just wants to be made whole by someone else for free. These types of things are what trip insurance is for. This situation was posted about here last year regarding Crystal Shores cancellation. The owner only got back restricted Club Points. They filed a claim and were able to get reimbursed for the maintenance fee cost of the points. The Holding Account points were pulled from the owner's account when they insurance payout is made. Everyone wants to be made whole, but if that is the case, someone else is going to lose out. The trip insurance is pretty cheap, if you choose to self insure, then you bear the full costs when something goes wrong. I thought COVID taught us this, but people quickly forget....
Trip insurance is the way to go if you are a US resident, but there is nothing offering similar cover for International owners unfortunately.
 

Pamplemousse

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Here are some threads on this topic that may help you if you haven’t seen them already.
Points into holding account is the way this has been handled in the past too (Hurricane on Marco island last year).
Good luck, hopefully you can find another reservation that will work for you.




 
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SueDonJ

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[Moderator Note: Multiple threads have been merged and going forward this will serve as a catch-all for all Maui fire-related cancellation discussions.]
 

dioxide45

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Trip insurance is the way to go if you are a US resident, but there is nothing offering similar cover for International owners unfortunately.
Are there no third party options available?
 

Dean

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Are there no third party options available?
Vacation Guard used to offer a plan that covered timeshares but I've heard they no longer offer that plan to individuals though they do still provide insurance through companies and HOA's I believe. I've read that Generali may cover timeshare including Maintenance fees but don't know for certain but it's trip related, not by year. I did reach out to my contact on Travel Insurance to ask his input but given that timeshares are a niche product, he may not know. Lastly, one can always get travel insurance just realizing it likely wouldn't cover the timeshare components that are indirect, such as maintenance fees. Personally I only buy the MVC product because of the economy of scale and medical for trips out of the country. I figure I'll be better off in the long run as the fees and flights I might lose wouldn't ruin me. If it weren't for the MVC product, I might look at an annual plan instead on years with multiple larger trips.
 

SueDonJ

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I understand all this, BUT they are waiving all cancellation penalties for "transient" guests. The holding account is a "penalty" in MVC's terms. As a policy matter, why treat a transient guest better than an exchange guest? Neither own at the resort in question but only the exchange guest incurs a penalty. Owners at an impacted resort assume the risks of their ownership so that is a different situation.
"Transient" guests paying cash aren't members of a club and there's no mechanism by which any Marriott entity can keep their payments in a holding account with guaranteed future usage.

Members of the Destination Club assume similar risks to those assumed by Weeks Owners by virtue of the signed membership contracts. Marriott isn't constrained by a requirement that every member in good standing must be able to book their individually-desired intervals via the Exchange Company, only that members must be able to book available intervals. Pages 18 and 19 of the Exchange Procedures doc make clear that Marriott cannot be held liable for accommodations that can't be used due to one-off events out of their control, and, that Marriott has the right but not the responsibility to amend the t&c's in the members' favor for such events. And on Page 24, the mechanism for dealing with such events/cancellations is specifically defined for this exact purpose: "Holding Account means an account established for purposes of depositing Exchange Points that are restored to a Program Member after the cancellation or modification of a confirmed reservation."

Like I said, if current conditions/cancellations in Maui continue beyond a period during which affected members can get reasonable usage out of the points used for cancelled reservations, then I'd expect them to extend expiration dates similarly to how they did it as COVID progressed. But they and we can't know today what this situation will look like beyond a few months at the most, and only they know if the Exchange Company has enough usable inventory to absorb however many points have been affected. If this is a relatively short-term problem and they know they have enough inventory (whether or not it's the same as the intervals which have been cancelled) parked in the EC to cover the affected points through the end of this year, then I don't believe they should allow a situation where affected members are given rights to future Use Years - especially if doing so puts MVW in jeopardy of being charged with inventory mismanagement.

You disagree somewhat, and I understand that. But we can't have it both ways. When Marriott amends the t&c's as they're allowed and we benefit by it, like with COVID and the generous cancellation terms that they eventually implemented as the situation continued to affect more and more reservations, we love them. But when they stick with the t&c's and it hurts us, like what happened following hurricanes in Hilton Head and Florida, in the early COVID days and now what's happening in these early days of Maui fire cancellations, we're thinking they're the devil - and someone is bound to start a rally cry for a class action suit. I guess it's human nature but honestly I just want to know that what they're doing is contractually allowed - whether it hurts me (as the HHI hurricanes did) or helps me (with 6 or 7 COVID Maui cancellations that I was able to eventually rebook the affected points during the extended usage period.)
 
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Superchief

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What is the point in offering and selling MVC trip insurance if no one wants to buy it and instead just wants to be made whole by someone else for free. These types of things are what trip insurance is for. This situation was posted about here last year regarding Crystal Shores cancellation. The owner only got back restricted Club Points. They filed a claim and were able to get reimbursed for the maintenance fee cost of the points. The Holding Account points were pulled from the owner's account when they insurance payout is made. Everyone wants to be made whole, but if that is the case, someone else is going to lose out. The trip insurance is pretty cheap, if you choose to self insure, then you bear the full costs when something goes wrong. I thought COVID taught us this, but people quickly forget....
The problem with the insurance in these types of situations is that I'm not sure they always would always cover this cost of points that were returned to the holding account. I called the insurance company last year when Crystal Shores was cancelling reservations, and the person I spoke with said my points wouldn't be covered if they had already been returned to my holding account. I was fortunate to be able to use those points myself. The policy information is unclear regarding coverage of points that are placed in holding accounts when MVC cancels a reservation.
 

Fasttr

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The problem with the insurance in these types of situations is that I'm not sure they always would always cover this cost of points that were returned to the holding account. I called the insurance company last year when Crystal Shores was cancelling reservations, and the person I spoke with said my points wouldn't be covered if they had already been returned to my holding account. I was fortunate to be able to use those points myself. The policy information is unclear regarding coverage of points that are placed in holding accounts when MVC cancels a reservation.
I believe there were reports of the MVC insurance covering MCS cancellations last year, and upon the insurance company's decision to cover, the insurance company contacted MVC and the points were removed from the owners Holding Account.
 

Superchief

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I believe there were reports of the MVC insurance covering MCS cancellations last year, and upon the insurance company's decision to cover, the insurance company contacted MVC and the points were removed from the owners Holding Account.
I don't think this is clearly stated in the policies and the coverage could vary by situation. I know that the rep I spoke with said it would not be covered, and recall seeing others being told the same thing that I was told. I will be interested to learn if those with Maui reservations are able to file claims to get their cost of points back if they choose to.
 

Fasttr

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I don't think this is clearly stated in the policies and the coverage could vary by situation. I know that the rep I spoke with said it would not be covered, and recall seeing others being told the same thing that I was told. I will be interested to learn if those with Maui reservations are able to file claims to get their cost of points back if they choose to.
Agreed....there are so many nuances in the MVC system, the insurance policy docs can't cover everything....and as you say, that opens it up to interpretation....which always holds risk.
 

Superchief

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Agreed....there are so many nuances in the MVC system, the insurance policy docs can't cover everything....and as you say, that opens it up to interpretation....which always holds risk.
I primarily use MVC points for a majority of my reservations, so I think this issue needs to be clearly covered in the insurance docs. If insured, we should be able to choose whether to make a claim or receive the holding account points. This will be a frequent occurrence.
 

BocaBoy

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Correct for the Covid situation Marriott made an exception and established a 120 day holding account. The Crystal Shores cancellation in Nov. 2022 went to the 60 day holding account. Thanks for the catcAnd with Covid travel was not prohibited like it now is on Maui. Someone who has no Maui ownership and dno trust points should not bear the ownership risk as do oners at the affected resort.

Totally different situation completely. Marriott can't provide the room for the cash paid guest and so they dont; charge them for it, fairly simple. Those are the terms and conditions. With owner week (including II trade) or points different terms apply.

The biggest difference is the cash guest now has to look for a new room that may or may not have inventory in the future. If you give unrestricted points back you have now OVERSOLD the resort, as the inventory was erased without the equivalent number of points being expended for that week.
You are much better off with II in a case like this than with Abound points, because they give you a replacement week that is good for a year. With Abound points I will have only a holding account that EXPIRES in 4 months, so it cannot be used.

Over 24 hours ago, they officially canceled my reservation, but they have NOT yet returned my points, even to a holding account
 
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