If you could ask a question of a Timeshare Executive, what would that question be?

[davidvel]

If I own 1/52 of a unit plus 1/52 of all the units of common area, how can it cost between 50 k to 150 k a year to maintain my 1/52 of the unit and share of common space (In a 52 week yearly cost)? Include my share based on my percentage of ownership to include insurance costs and other universal costs if need be.

Why do I need to pay for delinquent owners? If I solely owned a condo, would I be expected to pay their costs too?
What do you really do with the rental income you receive?

You can look at the budget and find your answer. Pretty transparent.

 

[dioxide45]

You can look at the budget and find your answer. Pretty transparent.

 

[TUGBrian]

They have been to several home/remodeling shows in KC the last few months & every wedding show my daughter’s attended. Spin the wheel & win! They seem to be very busy.

yep, same spin the wheel gimmick out front of the little tent here too!

 

[TUGBrian]

how about we keep things on topic.

 

[Fredflintstone]

You can look at the budget and find your answer. Pretty transparent.

A more accurate words IMO is pretty inflated. Out of interest, I looked at HOA fees in Billionaires Row in NYC. As just one example, here we have a 3500 square foot primo condo with 6526 a month HOA fees. That breaks down to 1626 a week. Many lesser square foot are 2 k a month or 500 a week. 1000 sq foot timeshares charge 1000 to 3000 a week. This leads me to my next questions I would ask:

Does your budget have any contractors or property managers affiliated with the developer who, in turn, receive renumeration and benefit from this arrangement? How do you ensure contractors chosen are competitively priced? What Is the process you use to seek and hire contractors and property managers?

Another question related to this one is: How do you come up with costs in your budget and are all terms transparently broken down or are general terms used lumping in many transactions? Do you send audited or unaudited balance sheets to your owners yearly?

 

[CO skier]

If I own 1/52 of a unit plus 1/52 of all the units of common area, how can it cost between 50 k to 150 k a year to maintain my 1/52 of the unit and share of common space (In a 52 week yearly cost)? Include my share based on my percentage of ownership to include insurance costs and other universal costs if need be.

Why do I need to pay for delinquent owners? If I solely owned a condo, would I be expected to pay their costs too?
What do you really do with the rental income you receive?

You can look at the budget and find your answer. Pretty transparent.

I am not a VIP Timeshare Executive, but my experience as just a lowly timeshare owner can answer the question with "Because that is what it costs."

WorldMark is super transparent with the finances to run a timeshare of 90+ resorts.

Very rough and rounded numbers from the 2022 WorldMark Auditors report and Treasurer Reports:

$350 million annual revenue (mostly maintenance fees)

210,000 owners

18,000 credits average ownership across the whole system

$350 million divided by (210,000 times 18,0000) equals $0.0925/credit to run the whole timeshare for 2022

10,000 credits = median number for 1 week in a 2 bedroom WorldMark unit = $925

$925 times 50 weeks (two reserved for maintenance) equals $46,250/year/2 bedroom unit, because that is what it costs.

Maybe it has something to do with the welcoming employees, and the maintenance employees, and the back office employees, and the 5-year soft goods renovations and the 10-year total renovations, etc. (It has nothing to do with the sales employees because that is a completely different department and not a dime of maintenance fees goes to them.)

I have no experience with or information for a timeshare that costs $150,000/year to maintain a 2 bedroom unit.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Why, if the DVC model is so successful, don’t they emulate it? Sell 30 year contracts. Keep the value high.

This is similar to the question I would want to pose. Why, if timeshares in general are so popular in this country, do they have such a predatory model for selling them at inflated rates to people who can’t afford them? DVC proves that timeshares can have value and not be hard-sold.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

, and the 5-year soft goods renovations and the 10-year total renovations, etc

Yeah, I think this is where a lot of the comparisons to “how much it costs to maintain my house/condo/etc” fall flat. I’m not replacing all the soft goods in my home every 5 years and doing a complete reno every 10 years.

 

[WorldT]

Yeah, I think this is where a lot of the comparisons to “how much it costs to maintain my house/condo/etc” fall flat. I’m not replacing all the soft goods in my home every 5 years and doing a complete reno every 10 years.

Thinking about that, I think you would or at least I would want you to if your home is inhabited by 50 different families in a year who do not handle the items with the care that you do.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Thinking about that, I think you would or at least I would want you to if your home is inhabited by 50 different families in a year who do not handle the items with the care that you do.

Oh, I absolutely agree that they need to be renovated on this schedule. I was just explaining one huge difference in maintenance costs for a timeshare versus a home.

 

[jp10558]

I think this was the badly failed model that happened in the 70s and even 80s. Sell a timeshare on an empty peice of land with the promise of future use and the resort never got built. That is what originally gave timeshares a bad name. They actually started out with a decent reputation when the product came to market in the early days of timeshare. I certainly wouldn't invest in something with 0% return with the promise to be able to use it five years from now.

I mean, I think that's solved by the pledge system, or if you're afraid too many pledgers would go away in the build time (like too many to build into slightly higher sales prices), maybe use an escrow system? Kind of like the Government does where they pay out a fixed dollar amount when a project is completed. I.e. no one gets charged their pledge till there's enough people to pay to build the resort (as estimated by the developer which ought to include some interest to pay loans they'll need to float till done), the pledges are collected and put into escrow, and when the resort opens and the first year of bookings by the pledgers are complete, the escrow pays out to the developers. If the developers don't manage that in X years from pledge collection, the escrow company returns the pledges to the pledgers.

 

[JONC777]

Why don't they offer better deed back and/or onsite resale programs? The common situation where people feel like they are stuck with a timeshare forever devalues ownership, in my opinion. It seems to me that a more robust deed back program - after a certain number of years (10 years/ 20 years?) would encourage people to take the plunge and purchase a timeshare.

Probably because it needs to be a difficult to get out of to protect the liquidity of the HOA. As far as the deedbacks go, I don't know why even the reluctant ones dont turn it into a revenue center like westgate and some others do, at least they offer a way out without being scammed.

 

[jp10558]

Yeah, I think this is where a lot of the comparisons to “how much it costs to maintain my house/condo/etc” fall flat. I’m not replacing all the soft goods in my home every 5 years and doing a complete reno every 10 years.

Yea, and all the locations where they go like 30-50 years since a complete reno get dinged in all the reviews as "extremely dated" etc. No one actually wants their timeshare run like you'd likely run your house / condo in terms of replacing furniture and bedding etc.

 

[dioxide45]

I do think some of the major hotel brands are too aggressive on complete renovations. Do we really need everything replaced every 5 years? A hard goods refurb on the 10 years cycle doesn't always do that much more. There are some resorts we visit where they say the units are due for a refurb the following year and we look and wonder what it is they plan to actually do. I think there are other concerns about "sweetheart" arrangements as mentioned earlier. Marriott has their own renovation company where they act as general contractor. They may put a set of renovations out for bid but the board may still go with Marriott Renovation Services. Not necessarily anything wrong with that but it is always questionable. Then Marriott has deals with "preferred vendors". They say it helps them get better pricing, but does that better pricing get passed on to the owners when the renovations are done or does it just help pad the margins for Marriott?

 

[ScoopKona]

This is similar to the question I would want to pose. Why, if timeshares in general are so popular in this country, do they have such a predatory model for selling them at inflated rates to people who can’t afford them? DVC proves that timeshares can have value and not be hard-sold.

I know the answer to this one as well -- because developers are scared to abandon a system which works for them.

Most of the money in a timeshare comes from OPCs grabbing people off the street. Throw that part of the business model away, and developer prices (the real developer prices before the nosebleed drop) would go down by half.

If the average person did their homework, selected a system which worked for them, and then made a phone call and bought the thing, there would be no need for OPCs, gifts, the shuttle driver, the check-in girl, the broker and similar. Wouldn't need salespeople, either. Just the people in the back who print the contracts and file the papers.

But since the average person is either illiterate or simply refuses to read, the song-and-dance, game-show business model persists.

You may as well ask vacationers, "Why would you consider sacrificing four hours of your vacation in exchange for a dinner coupon? Why not stop doing that and let the timeshare industry twist in the wind? If everyone says 'no,' this business model collapses."

Why? Human nature. That's why.

Pretty-much every "what should I buy" question in the new-to-timesharing forum is an example of this. They don't want to learn any system. They want the magical timeshare which does what they want and costs next to nothing. "I don't want to have to plan. I want to be able to cancel at the last minute. And I want a place that costs $1 and has no maintenance fees. And I have to be able to mail it back to the developer when I'm done with it. Just tell me what that is so I can buy it and go to the beach next week."

 

[Fredflintstone]

I am not a VIP Timeshare Executive, but my experience as just a lowly timeshare owner can answer the question with "Because that is what it costs."

WorldMark is super transparent with the finances to run a timeshare of 90+ resorts.

Very rough and rounded numbers from the 2022 WorldMark Auditors report and Treasurer Reports:

$350 million annual revenue (mostly maintenance fees)

210,000 owners

18,000 credits average ownership across the whole system

$350 million divided by (210,000 times 18,0000) equals $0.0925/credit to run the whole timeshare for 2022

10,000 credits = median number for 1 week in a 2 bedroom WorldMark unit = $925

$925 times 50 weeks (two reserved for maintenance) equals $46,250/year/2 bedroom unit, because that is what it costs.

Maybe it has something to do with the welcoming employees, and the maintenance employees, and the back office employees, and the 5-year soft goods renovations and the 10-year total renovations, etc. (It has nothing to do with the sales employees because that is a completely different department and not a dime of maintenance fees goes to them.)

I have no experience with or information for a timeshare that costs $150,000/year to maintain a 2 bedroom unit.

I think 925.00 a week is quite low compared to the National average. When I read the maintenance fee strings on MF, I can’t remember the last time I saw a 925 MF. I do know beat up legacy resorts are around that rate. I have stayed in those as a rent and believe you me, it’s 70’s and 80’s look. No evidence of Reno’s there. Plus, you never know when that “special assessment” is going to hit the mailbox.

Here’s just one example of a 2 bedroom timeshare (attached) with a 3135 per week MF. So, 3135 x 52 is 163,000 per year maintenance fee. And the rates keep going up. At this rate, I could buy an entire 2 bedroom condo there with a 5 year ROI and the “maintenance” would be a fraction of the costs. Plus, I could Airbnb it and pocket some profit every year.

Another question might be: Why do you use the word “maintenance fee”? Why not call it a “prepaid hotel rate”. If the rates are purely for “maintenance”, why is this calculated as Income and it’s your bread and butter? Isn’t the term MF deceptive? Isn’t some of these funds not used to keep the pool water clean? If so, why don’t you disclose the profit you make from the MF?

Frankly, are you really an owner? Could this be a way to lock you in Through a deed? Is that why deedbacks at some resorts are so challenging?

The system needs revamping IMO.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Before joining the timeshare industry did you apply to any other more respectable jobs, such as graverobbing?

Ok more seriously, why not expand the deedback programs to those who still have loan balances? After all, even in those cases you’re still making tens of thousands of dollars, and I think it would significantly lessen the negative impression people have of timeshares.

 

[pedro47]

Back on the Topic.
The only CEO, I can remember that would answer some owners questions was Steve Colebeck from Diamond International Resorts.

 

[Fredflintstone]

I should add, in my case, I used to own timeshares years ago. Now, I save the MF and use it to rent them. During Covid, I went no where and banked up what I would have used to pay MF. Those Savings are invested and the income I earn from investments pay for many a rent In places I want go to.

Look, I have no problem with someone profiting. The problem I have is the industry uses terms and gives information that I see as deceptive language. If they sold timeshares as discounted hotel rates, I would be fine with that. At least they are being upfront.

So, another question here would be: What steps could you take to fully disclose what a timeshare truly is? How can you train salespeople to show integrity in the sales process? How can you better ensure resale value for ”owners”? How can you improve on your reputation and trust with the public?

 

[Fredflintstone]

Back on the Topic.
The only CEO, I can remember that would answer some owners questions was Steve Colebeck from Diamond International Resorts.

You hit the nail on the head. When executives only answer some questions or ignore their “owners” one can see this as them having something to hide. They can do better and, I suspect, would be much more successful with winning over the public. Its when the hard questions are discerned and tackled is when things improve for everyone.

 

[TUGBrian]

Back on the Topic.
The only CEO, I can remember that would answer some owners questions was Steve Colebeck from Diamond International Resorts.

Im fairly confident this thread will eventually bear fruit... more details later!

 

[GTLINZ]

How do you sleep at night?

That was my exact question !

 

[dioxide45]

Back on the Topic.
The only CEO, I can remember that would answer some owners questions was Steve Colebeck from Diamond International Resorts.

Mike Flaskey has done some interviews after he departed Diamond Resorts.

 

[HedonisticEpicurean]

My question for the CEO: "When do you anticipate timeshare properties will implement check-in apps to streamline the check-in process for customers, eliminating the need for waiting in lines and the outdated procedure of manual check-ins?"

I have found it antiquated, inconvenient and not customer focused that I have had to stand in line when checking in at every timeshare property thus far while I rarely if ever need to check-in when staying at other properties. Most guests today expect to be able to go directly to our room and use our phone to gain access to the assigned accommodations.

The immediate short term response from the CEO is that the business wants the guest inundated during the check-in process by the marketing team in hopes that they book an information session which is nothing more than a hardcore sales session. However, at some point the modern guest will put pressure on the system and will expect the ease of app check-in. Convenience stores were slow to implement pay at the pump and grocery stores where hesitant to offer self-check out but both moved that way in time.

If the CEO doesn't see the future of utilizing the app for timeshares because of lack of creative marketing I would then suggest putting pressure on the marketing team to find new ways to corral sales prospects.

Implement a multifaceted mobile app strategy for timeshare properties, offering incentives like discounts and perks for mobile check-ins, hosting virtual information sessions with rewards for participation, providing augmented reality property tours to entice potential guests, and incorporating a personalized digital concierge service to enhance guest experiences and drive app engagement, all aimed at minimizing physical queues, maximizing guest satisfaction and ultimately signing up guests for in person sales presentations. The CEO may also see that the reduced head count will actual save money while generating more timeshare sales in the long run.

 

[geist1223]

If Wyndump can not design and implement a functional online Web Site for Bookings how would they design one for check-in.