If you could ask a question of a Timeshare Executive, what would that question be?

[pedro47]

When will all the timeshare industries develop a program to take back timeshare deeds or weeks that are paid in full?

Second question when will timeshare sales associates stop telling lies to make a sales especially to senior citizens?

Third question, when a timeshare owners is own a vacation, why should they attend a so called 90 minutes owners update presentation that can last over two hours.?
It is not an owner update, it is a hard sale timeshare presentation.

 

[silentg]

Why do you pester owners when on vacation?

 

[zentraveler]

There is onlye so much you can squeeze from existing owners every year before folks start leaving in masses.

I think we may be seeing some of that. In the 16 years I have been a regular reader of TUG I have never seen so much discontent/anger/angst about MF's and special assessments.

 

[ScoopKona]

The younger generation won't be so easily fooled. They are more likely to use online resources to quickly assess their latest sales purchase. Some will simply stay away due to all of the negative press found online.

If this was true, we wouldn't see the semi-weekly "help! what have I done" posts from people who bought a timeshare in Mexico or enlisted "Totally Legitimate Timeshare Exit Company LLC."

I think it's more fair to say that X% of vacationers will give up four hours of their vacation to take a sales presentation to get a free headache gift. And X/5% of those vacationers will buy -- without reading any of the paperwork they sign. And then X/20% will come here and post "Help! What have I done?"

If our population is becoming more timeshare saavy, I'm sure not seeing any evidence of that. OPCs are still plying their trade at airports and tourist areas. When I trade into timeshares, the average guest is younger than they were 25 years ago -- not older. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if a Netflix model comes out. "You don't actually own anything. Pay us $250 per month and you can take two GUAR-AWN-TEED vacations each year at our fabulous network of resorts. Just pay this initial deposit to sign you up for the vacation club and sign here. Some restrictions apply."

 

[theo]

I would be interested to hear the justification / rationale from on high regarding charging people thousands of dollars to "deed back" a product for which they already (over)paid serious money to buy that same "product" from that same developer in the first place.

I can fathom (although certainly not agree with) a developer maybe not accepting "deedbacks" at all, but charging their buyers thousands of dollars later just to take their deeds back seems like extremely greedy and indefensible extortion; I'd enjoy hearing an Exec try to "spin" that particular practice.

 

[TUGBrian]

I didn't *bleep* on anything. As I noted in my first post, I think the idea of getting a straight answer to these types of questions from a TS executive is a folly. Their interests do not align with owners' interests, and the things that we all want will not necessarily be what they want to maximize their profits.

One could easily go through all of the proposed questions and easily figure out a corporate speak answer without shitting on the question, just like the exec will do. The collective brain trust here at TUG certainly knows the real answer to most, if not all, of these questions.

the issue here is that most of the folks participating here are FAR more knowledgeable (at least in regards to timesharing) than the average owner....

these questions may seem like no brainers and for many of us they are...but its certainly not common knowledge and its always interesting to get the perspective of someone on the other side. Timeshares arent charities, if there were no profit to be made none would exist.

 

[TUGBrian]

I agree.

Everything else from a timeshare perspective has changed over time except for their sales and exit practices.

The younger generation won't be so easily fooled. They are more likely to use online resources to quickly assess their latest sales purchase. Some will simply stay away due to all of the negative press found online.

sadly it does not appear the current generation is any more apt to do research than the one before it, or the one before that!

 

[TUGBrian]

If this was true, we wouldn't see the semi-weekly "help! what have I done" posts from people who bought a timeshare in Mexico or enlisted "Totally Legitimate Timeshare Exit Company LLC."

I think it's more fair to say that X% of vacationers will give up four hours of their vacation to take a sales presentation to get a free headache gift. And X/5% of those vacationers will buy -- without reading any of the paperwork they sign. And then X/20% will come here and post "Help! What have I done?"

If our population is becoming more timeshare saavy, I'm sure not seeing any evidence of that. OPCs are still plying their trade at airports and tourist areas. When I trade into timeshares, the average guest is younger than they were 25 years ago -- not older. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if a Netflix model comes out. "You don't actually own anything. Pay us $250 per month and you can take two GUAR-AWN-TEED vacations each year at our fabulous network of resorts. Just pay this initial deposit to sign you up for the vacation club and sign here. Some restrictions apply."

was a great example of this at the local farmers market/kid fest in our little town today.... capital resorts had a booth there selling timeshares....and I never once saw it without a line of people waiting.

 

[davidvel]

the issue here is that most of the folks participating here are FAR more knowledgeable (at least in regards to timesharing) than the average owner....

these questions may seem like no brainers and for many of us they are...but its certainly not common knowledge and its always interesting to get the perspective of someone on the other side. Timeshares arent charities, if there were no profit to be made none would exist.

I agree, I just don't think you would ever get an honest, straightforward perspective from timeshare corporate types. To the contrary, just more sales-speak to muddy the waters.

 

[tourproto]

I would ask what they see as the reason for the big discrepancy between the developer price for a property vs the aftermarket price, and why should someone interested in timeshare ownership consider buying from a developer vs the secondary market.

To me, the secondary market reflects the true value of timeshares. Any uplift in prices to what the developer sells at needs to be supported by something tangible. So for Vistana, the ability to convert StarOptions into StarPoints (e.g. hotel points), is absolutely a benefit vs banking StarOptions. As a one-time fee (at purchase), it's worth $5K to me over the life of a timeshare to be able to stay in a high quality hotel somewhere where there isn't a timeshare option (San Diego, CA for example for Vistana). If they offered me a bunch of "bonus" hotel points and or airline points, I would value them at the same rate the overall industry rates them, so they would have to offer a boatload of Starpoints or Delta miles for me to pay $50K vs $5K for a timeshare, and there would have to be no expiration date on those points (if they gave me 1M Delta miles with a 2 year expiration, I would have a hard time using them in a useful way).

I feel that the industry preys on ignorance, pressure tactics, and impulse buying to sell their product. But maybe it needs to be that way to support the business model. Could Westin have bought and built the Kierland in Scottsdale selling timeshares for $15k each instead of $50K+? I don't know the answer to that, but maybe they have to sell to "suckers" to make the business model work, and as the saying goes, there is one born every minute.

 

[timsi]

If you happened to sit down with a VIP in the Timeshare Executive world and got to ask them a question, what would it be?

Very curious to see what the TUG community can come up with on this, though I am sure I can guess a dozen or so right off the top! =)

Why do they believe they should not compensate owners' associations for the unreserved units they claim 60 days or less before check-in? How many units are acquired this way, what real costs are associated with these units (wear and tear of furniture, housekeeping, and other labor costs, utilities, etc.), and what is their rental value?

 

[jp10558]

Timeshare companies make the bulk of the their money from the following
(1) Developer sales
(2) Developer financing
(3) Resort management fees
(4) Club dues and transaction fees
(5) Cash Rentals

I guess one of my biggest concerns is how do these publicly traded companies plan to increase long-term profits and growth? There is only so much you can squeeze from existing owners every year before folks start leaving in masses.

This is the problem with capitalism in general - how could you consistently increase profits and growth indefinitely? It seems like inflation is the fake smoke and mirrors answer, but eventually you kind of have to be OK with a consistent profit margin and as big as you're likely to get in a market.

 

[jp10558]

I feel that the industry preys on ignorance, pressure tactics, and impulse buying to sell their product. But maybe it needs to be that way to support the business model. Could Westin have bought and built the Kierland in Scottsdale selling timeshares for $15k each instead of $50K+? I don't know the answer to that, but maybe they have to sell to "suckers" to make the business model work, and as the saying goes, there is one born every minute.

I don't know about the building new resorts or buying existing ones from the developers standpoint, but I also don't see why it couldn't easily work like some software programs work, or some Kickstarters. I.e. if you want the latest feature / location, you pledge up the developer price, and once there's sufficient sales for that amount you are charged / billed, and then the place is made. You get the first year or two access to the new location, then it's open to everyone else to get at resale prices / with resale or other existing points etc. I imagine it might well change *where* new developments are built, but maybe not IDK. But the developer gets their money to build and everyone else buys at the "real ongoing market rate". Remember, owning at the new location gives you first dibs kind of forever in most systems anyway...

That's probably too honest to work with the mindset, but I still struggle to see why something like the above and allowing a straightforward and non hidden resale market wouldn't also work with far less people being mislead or feeling scammed.

To the people who say, well they'll never build a new resort this way I say - people kickstarter / crowd fund stuff all the time. More than that, people buy new cars every day, yet everyone knows the resale value depreciates fast (not as bad as Timeshares sure, but large percentages pretty quickly). There's people who will buy the "new" Timeshare if it's actually a new location to a system / new build even IMHO without deception. And IMNSHO I bet there'll be less Orlando new builds after this and more different locations.

 

[timsi]

Perhaps, but it puts them on the spot. Instead of just shitting on other questions here, why don't you come up with some of your own?

I don't think anyone was shitting on your question, at least I did not see it that way. However, allowing an executive to answer in broad terms might lead to disappointment. Not only are they unlikely to say anything self-incriminating, but they are also very skilled at presenting overly optimistic perspectives. What's the use in asking a question when the answer is so predictable? They'll just say they do everything they can and uphold the highest ethical standards etc.

 

[timsi]

@brian Can they discuss the scientific methodology employed to determine that 85% of owners are satisfied? Additionally, do these surveys focus on owning a timeshare specifically, or do they actually only assess the quality of the resorts (which travelers can access through various means beyond timeshare ownership)?

 

[ScoopKona]

@brian Can they discuss the scientific methodology employed to determine that 85% of owners are satisfied? Additionally, do these surveys focus on owning a timeshare specifically, or do they actually only assess the quality of the resorts (which travelers can access through various means beyond timeshare ownership)?

This is the first question I've see that 1) has a good chance of being answered honestly; and 2) cannot simply be Googled.

Most of the other questions remind me of Groucho Marx, "When did you stop beating your wife?" -- It's not going to be answered at all, let alone honestly.

 

[ScoopKona]

I don't know the answer to that, but maybe they have to sell to "suckers" to make the business model work, and as the saying goes, there is one born every minute.

The answer is free gifts.

Every time a timeshare OPC puts a couple into the shuttle to take the presentation, that OPC gets paid. If the tour buys, the OPC gets a bonus. Although the salary structure is designed to reward OPCs who bring buyers, the reality is most OPCs just want to put butts in chairs.
And there's the price of the "gift." People will complain to anyone who cares to listen about timeshare salespeople, but the lion's share of the money is going to the OPCs. Imagine a big resort with a large sales team completing 100 tours a day. Assuming $100 to the OPC and a $100-ish "gift," (and the shuttle driver and incidentals); that's roughly $20K per day in OPC commission and "gifts."

 

[moonstone]

at the local farmers market/kid fest in our little town today.... capital resorts had a booth there selling timeshares....and I never once saw it without a line of people waiting.

Wow! Capital was at the St. Augustine Pier craft sale on the weekend. We were past the booth (right beside A1A) several times over the weekend and never saw anybody talking to them. The girl tried to nab us the first time we walked by and I said Capital timeshares -no way!! We are pretty satisfied with our free timeshare!


~Diane

 

[jrb916]

Wow! Capital was at the St. Augustine Pier craft sale on the weekend. We were past the booth (right beside A1A) several times over the weekend and never saw anybody talking to them. The girl tried to nab us the first time we walked by and I said Capital timeshares -no way!! We are pretty satisfied with our free timeshare!


~Diane

They have been to several home/remodeling shows in KC the last few months & every wedding show my daughter’s attended. Spin the wheel & win! They seem to be very busy.

 

[billymach4]

My question would be....

How do you manage to work around the most knowledgeable timeshare owners that spread the TRUTH about timeshare marketing. There are many skilled owners that manage to convince new prospective buyers from rescinding a new contract by simple internet searching.

What percentage of your sales get rescinded?
How do you manage this aspect of your sales practice?

 

[dioxide45]

What percentage of your sales get rescinded?

I saw a stat mentioned, albeit from 2017 or 2018 that the recission number was about 15%.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't know about the building new resorts or buying existing ones from the developers standpoint, but I also don't see why it couldn't easily work like some software programs work, or some Kickstarters. I.e. if you want the latest feature / location, you pledge up the developer price, and once there's sufficient sales for that amount you are charged / billed, and then the place is made. You get the first year or two access to the new location, then it's open to everyone else to get at resale prices / with resale or other existing points etc. I imagine it might well change *where* new developments are built, but maybe not IDK. But the developer gets their money to build and everyone else buys at the "real ongoing market rate". Remember, owning at the new location gives you first dibs kind of forever in most systems anyway...

That's probably too honest to work with the mindset, but I still struggle to see why something like the above and allowing a straightforward and non hidden resale market wouldn't also work with far less people being mislead or feeling scammed.

To the people who say, well they'll never build a new resort this way I say - people kickstarter / crowd fund stuff all the time. More than that, people buy new cars every day, yet everyone knows the resale value depreciates fast (not as bad as Timeshares sure, but large percentages pretty quickly). There's people who will buy the "new" Timeshare if it's actually a new location to a system / new build even IMHO without deception. And IMNSHO I bet there'll be less Orlando new builds after this and more different locations.

I think this was the badly failed model that happened in the 70s and even 80s. Sell a timeshare on an empty peice of land with the promise of future use and the resort never got built. That is what originally gave timeshares a bad name. They actually started out with a decent reputation when the product came to market in the early days of timeshare. I certainly wouldn't invest in something with 0% return with the promise to be able to use it five years from now.

 

[billymach4]

I saw a stat mentioned, albeit from 2017 or 2018 that the recission number was about 15%.

Would love to know the current metric.

 

[Fredflintstone]

If I own 1/52 of a unit plus 1/52 of all the units of common area, how can it cost between 50 k to 150 k a year to maintain my 1/52 of the unit and share of common space (In a 52 week yearly cost)? Include my share based on my percentage of ownership to include insurance costs and other universal costs if need be.

Why do I need to pay for delinquent owners? If I solely owned a condo, would I be expected to pay their costs too?
What do you really do with the rental income you receive?

 

[Fredflintstone]

Oh, I can’t resist:

If I need to pay for delinquent owners, why aren’t I compensated by receiving more points or time? I’m paying their share too right? But not receiving any more benefits?