HRC to acquire Welk Resorts [MERGED]

[heathpack]

So really what does this add for HRC owners?

Palm Springs- II trades are a dime a dozen
Escondido- nice resorts but meh
Cabo- Sirenia del Mar, I’ve stayed there and liked it but Mexico trades are also easy
Branson- no interest personally but I know it appeals to many
Tahoe and Breckenridge are already in the system

So really this is not great for HRC owners. Welk owners have some sweet additions that are difficult places to trade into- Carmel CA, Key West, Aspen. But HRC owners get only the addition of places that are easy trades, and the Welk owners now also vying for booking at the HRC resorts that we have had pretty good access to previously.

Ugh. I am not optimistic

 

[dioxide45]

In this Marriott web page flyer, in the Welk overview section it says there's 3+ yrs of built inventory. What does that mean? 3 x 52 unsold unit weeks? Maybe to seed an HPP program?

Be interesting to see how Marriott will assign club points value to Welk properties.

It means that they have enough inventory to continue selling for three more years at anticipated sales volume.

 

[dioxide45]

Also according to their map, they think Branson is in northern Arkansas instead of southern Missouri?

 

[alexadeparis]

@heathpack agreed. I might go to Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs or Cabo, but I already have access to all those through other systems so not much value for me.

 

[dioxide45]

So really what does this add for HRC owners?

Palm Springs- II trades are a dime a dozen
Escondido- nice resorts but meh
Cabo- Sirenia del Mar, I’ve stayed there and liked it but Mexico trades are also easy
Branson- no interest personally but I know it appeals to many
Tahoe and Breckenridge are already in the system

So really this is not great for HRC owners. Welk owners have some sweet additions that are difficult places to trade into- Carmel CA, Key West, Aspen. But HRC owners get only the addition of places that are easy trades, and the Welk owners now also vying for booking at the HRC resorts that we have had pretty good access to previously.

Ugh. I am not optimistic

I would say it add for VAC's ability to sell to more owners. They will leverage Hyatt's current portfolio to upsell Welk owners into the system to access those resorts. They probably aren't as concerned about current Hyatt owners.

 

[dmelcher13]

So really what does this add for HRC owners?

Palm Springs- II trades are a dime a dozen
Escondido- nice resorts but meh
Cabo- Sirenia del Mar, I’ve stayed there and liked it but Mexico trades are also easy
Branson- no interest personally but I know it appeals to many
Tahoe and Breckenridge are already in the system

So really this is not great for HRC owners. Welk owners have some sweet additions that are difficult places to trade into- Carmel CA, Key West, Aspen. But HRC owners get only the addition of places that are easy trades, and the Welk owners now also vying for booking at the HRC resorts that we have had pretty good access to previously.

Ugh. I am not optimistic

In all likelihood, these resorts will be made unavailable for exchanging in Interval. Similar to how Hyatt owners currently can't see Hyatt exchanges in Interval.

 

[heathpack]

In all likelihood, these resorts will be made unavailable for exchanging in Interval. Similar to how Hyatt owners currently can't see Hyatt exchanges in Interval.

Im not talking about trading into those specific resorts, I’m talking about trading into those locations. Easy peasy. I don’t need more Hyatt inventory to stay in a timeshare in Palm Springs or Cabo. I can do that quite readily now.

Vs Welk owners effectively can’t trade into Carmel, Aspen or Key West now. So the purchase by HRC is a win for them.

 

[heathpack]

They probably aren't as concerned about current Hyatt owners.

Bingo.

They are spinning this to HRC owners as a positive to us. But it’s not.

 

[Shankilicious]

Im not talking about trading into those specific resorts, I’m talking about trading into those locations. Easy peasy. I don’t need more Hyatt inventory to stay in a timeshare in Palm Springs or Cabo. I can do that quite readily now.

Vs Welk owners effectively can’t trade into Carmel, Aspen or Key West now. So the purchase by HRC is a win for them.

Depends how much we have to pay to access Hyatt inventory or how that will play out. If they make us pay several grand to be able to trade into Hyatt, and then change our point system, that's gonna suck.
Right now I can tell you as a Welk owner, I REALLY don't like how much a point variance there is between all the seasons. Only Tahoe and Breckenridge have legit seasons for Welk properties and that basically ski/summer and mud season. Not freaking SEVEN..... Good lord.....

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[CPNY]

I am sure that the Hyatt and Welk sales reps will already be telling people to buy today to guarantee you can book Hyatt or Welk resorts in the future. What you own now won't do any good unless you buy more!

Well, MVW did say it will “create future growth opportunities” . That’s 55,000 new customers to sell to.

 

[Pathways]

So really what does this add for HRC owners?

As a multi week owner, I would maintain this is a HUGE addition.

This may not change a thing in my current usage, but this is a huge vote moving forward about the viability and status of the HRC.

Instead of wondering if our little 'gem' will wilt and die, this should give us all reassurance of our current resorts and value.

 

[sjsharkie]

Yuck.

I will say I love the Northstar property. It is almost ski in ski out and upscale - originally developed by Hyatt so it is nice... nicer than High Sierra which I frequent most often.

However, I agree with others. Welk access is not that desirable for me and I'm sure the future changes to the Hyatt program will not be favorable.

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[ocdb8r]

Im not talking about trading into those specific resorts, I’m talking about trading into those locations. Easy peasy. I don’t need more Hyatt inventory to stay in a timeshare in Palm Springs or Cabo. I can do that quite readily now.

Vs Welk owners effectively can’t trade into Carmel, Aspen or Key West now. So the purchase by HRC is a win for them.

I don't think this is a fair assessment. Welk owners still have access to II and with my non-Hyatt account I have no problem getting into HRC's Key West in all but peak season (and I often trade in as it's cheaper than using my HRC points). There's nothing overly special about Aspen over the other ski resorts, which both have decent inventory at. Sure, Carmel is unique and a fairly difficult trade, but to me ANY extra inventory in Tahoe (especially at the Northstar location) is a big plus (given it's a near year-round resort consistently difficult to get into, even within the HRC system) and I like the addition of Santa Fe and Cabo. Escondido is also a very nice add for golfers and near year-round good weather. Not my thing, but I can imagine some owners will be happy to have it.

I'm not jumping up and down or anything, but I don't see it as a net negative in any way....regardless it's an investment in the system which to me is good news given it's clearly going to be an orphan in MWC (and I was more worried they'd just marginalize it).

 

[heathpack]

@Shankilicious totally agree. So far HPP has been just a terrible obvious money grab by HRC with very deceptive sales practices. Definitely a Caveat Emptor scenario. You are forewarned.

The only upside I see in this for HRC owners is if they decide this could be a good time to revamp HPP into something more palatable. I’m not super optimistic about that but they really do need to get more Hyatt weeks inventory into their HPP system.

So there’s the tiniest glimmer that HPP gets better which will help sell to the new Welk pool of prospects.

 

[alameda94501]

While it may not be a popular notion here, when I looked at the Orange County filings it seems like HPC is a success, at least by the number of Portfolio Points they've sold. Probably a combination of shocking hard sell techniques unseen by Hyatt legacy owners with dazzling properties for new owners, but pre-COVID I was projecting they would actually run out of Portfolio Points by then end of 2020.

This could then be rough for HRC legacy owners if Welk is brought in as HPC and not legacy inventory, but we contend with more Welk owners as HPC owners. Even if they share inventory nicely, it basically means there's a lot more mouths to feed in the legacy CUP/LCUP system.

One way to think about HPC is that a few years ago Hyatt took all the dregs of inventory and bought it up, then sold points to it. This made those dregs, that were previously a burden on the developer, more fully utilized, so that HRC legacy owners had to compete more for desirable inventory in CUP, but nothing unfair - it was just we had it better when the Developer was suffering with carrying dead inventory, because no one would actively compete on CUP with us.

The Welk resorts are likely going to be like the new phases of WOR and Coconut Plantation. They were snapped up immediately under Hyatt and sold completely as part of HPC Portfolio Points, which as I said above gave the sales people more to sell because they were almost sold out of Points. In the Welk case there are a bunch more Portfolio owners instantly because of the legacy Welk owners.

For our favorite resort Highlands Inn, it means there are more people who can CUP in at six months. Note that if you have a specific resort in mind (like us with HHI) if you had said "yes" to the Portfolio sales shill, you wouldn't be much ahead, just 12mo for a ~10% slice of ORP inventory at HHI (mainly off peak) that you need to activate annually with additional fees to convert.

But it's the added pressure to CUP that is worrisome with the Welk development and any additional HPC growth. More planning ahead and more wait-lists are going to be necessary for Legacy owners like me.

 

[travelhacker]

While it may not be a popular notion here, when I looked at the Orange County filings it seems like HPC is a success, at least by the number of Portfolio Points they've sold. Probably a combination of shocking hard sell techniques unseen by Hyatt legacy owners with dazzling properties for new owners, but pre-COVID I was projecting they would actually run out of Portfolio Points by then end of 2020.

This could then be rough for HRC legacy owners if Welk is brought in as HPC and not legacy inventory, but we contend with more Welk owners as HPC owners. Even if they share inventory nicely, it basically means there's a lot more mouths to feed in the legacy CUP/LCUP system.

One way to think about HPC is that a few years ago Hyatt took all the dregs of inventory and bought it up, then sold points to it. This made those dregs, that were previously a burden on the developer, more fully utilized, so that HRC legacy owners had to compete more for desirable inventory in CUP, but nothing unfair - it was just we had it better when the Developer was suffering with carrying dead inventory, because no one would actively compete on CUP with us.

The Welk resorts are likely going to be like the new phases of WOR and Coconut Plantation. They were snapped up immediately under Hyatt and sold completely as part of HPC Portfolio Points, which as I said above gave the sales people more to sell because they were almost sold out of Points. In the Welk case there are a bunch more Portfolio owners instantly because of the legacy Welk owners.

For our favorite resort Highlands Inn, it means there are more people who can CUP in at six months. Note that if you have a specific resort in mind (like us with HHI) if you had said "yes" to the Portfolio sales shill, you wouldn't be much ahead, just 12mo for a ~10% slice of ORP inventory at HHI (mainly off peak) that you need to activate annually with additional fees to convert.

But it's the added pressure to CUP that is worrisome with the Welk development and any additional HPC growth. More planning ahead and more wait-lists are going to be necessary for Legacy owners like me.

Slightly off topic -- but you have some of the most insightful posts on TUG. I LOOOOOVED your analysis on HPP.

 

[mrbocce]

Received e-mail regarding Hyatt's intention to purchase 8 properties from Welk resorts. The properties are known to be of high quality. This appears to be a good thing for the HVC Brand. Some nice locations.

[Threads merged after reported. <-- SueDonJ]

 

[TravelTime]

Received e-mail regarding Hyatt's intention to purchase 8 properties from Welk resorts. The properties are known to be of high quality. This appears to be a good thing for the HVC Brand. Some nice locations.

Which properties are they buying?

 

[mrbocce]

All 8 of the Welk resorts

 

[travelhacker]

These are just a few thoughts that I have:

1) I like that MVC is "investing" in HRC.
2) I don't have much interest in the Welk locations. Lake Tahoe is a good add (living in CO, I don't know that I would want to head out there for skiing, but the resorts seem like they are in great locations and look very nice. I may be interested in staying in Santa Fe for a few nights. I have zero interest in Branson, Palm Springs, or Escondido.
3) I don't have any idea how an overlay would work. I suspect that they will continue to sell brands as is for the next 12-18 months, and we'll gradually start to hear details.
4) I don't like that this will potentially impact availability within HRC. However, I do think this is potentially several years out.

 

[GetawaysRus]

I've been a Marriott "owner" since 2004. Over the years, it's seemed to me that changes in the timeshare industry tend to benefit the timeshare companies and rarely benefit me. I put the word owner in parentheses because my rights and power as an owner feel so limited.

I don't own either Hyatt or Welk, but I have stayed at a limited number of resorts in both programs. I find Hyatt to be classy resorts and, to me, many are aspirational trades. In my mind, Hyatt had some exclusivity to it. Welk is OK, but I would place their resorts a rung lower in desirability.

So once again, I view this change as dilution, lowering the value of my ownership. It may become harder for me to trade into Hyatt resorts, and that's unfortunate. If I were a Hyatt owner, I would also not be pleased. Welk owners may be mild winners, however.

If my initial impression is wrong, and this might benefit me as a Marriott owner, please go ahead and explain how.

 

[vacationtime1]

My guess: this is all about enlarging HRC to a sufficient size such that MVC can successfully spin it off as a separate entity. An acquisition at 5.6 x EBIDTA will strengthen HRC's financial statements and enhance the potential IPO price.

MVC has struggled with what to do with the Hyatt timeshares. We have previously speculated that it would be sold or spun off. It is no accident that the acquisition is happening through HRC rather than the Marriott/Vistana group.

 

[travelhacker]

My guess: this is all about enlarging HRC to a sufficient size such that MVC can successfully spin it off as a separate entity. An acquisition at 5.6 x EBIDTA will strengthen HRC's financial statements and enhance the potential IPO price.

MVC has struggled with what to do with the Hyatt timeshares. We have previously speculated that it would be sold or spun off. It is no accident that the acquisition is happening through HRC rather than the Marriott/Vistana group.

This makes A LOT of sense.

 

[Shankilicious]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=67985&share_type=t&link_source=app

[/URL]

This is already going

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[liongate88]

What would happen to Welk resorts? Would they go away or be part of Hyatt?


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